Matthew Fitzpatrick whines about BDC...

[bubbagump]

30 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Lol. The same reason you want to see it is the same reason I don’t  want to see it.  I’ll see your why not and raise you a “ why so “?  
 

but seriously.  The reason why not is many. Pace of play , setup changes it will bring , and the general idea of the game  itself.  What will happen when all 420 yard par 4s have players waiting on the tee for the green to clear ?     What happens when a guy can fly it over every dogleg at Augusta ? Do we install spotters to  radio to the tee whne it’s clear ?     I’m simply saying scale.  340 carry is the limit of scale on moist courses on earth in my opinion as a rough guess.  
 

similar note. What if we saw pitchers throw 145 mph in the mlb ?  Wouldn’t we need to move the mound back and down to scale it to a workable game ?   

 

All that is just cart before horse and based on hypothetical.  Rims didnt get raised for Shaq or Yao, fields didnt get extended because Mahomes can throw it 70 yards, parks arent getting extended because guys can hit 500 foot bombs.   

 

Bryson isn't winning at an alarming rate, the field isnt being lapped, and the winners circle is being populated by parity most weeks.  The PGAT is fine, and isnt being threatened by this but if it becomes obvious something must be done they will at that time.  Right now is so not it lol.  

Edited October 11, 2020 by bubbagump

[blueonblack]

33 minutes ago, Superbrit said:

Players with distance always had an advantage, nothing has changed, but doesnt mean the average hitters can't win or compete, morrikawa has just won the PGA, he can't get no where near bryson length wise, Bryson has only won one major up to now

 

If fitz doesn't want to add length then thats his perogative but don't start moaning about someone who has, and who is pretty damn good at all the other aspects of the game as well.

 

 

But if you dedicated your whole career like Fitzy did, in ANY industry or role, and they suddenly move the goalposts on you? Lots of people complain at their jobs when things like that happen. And I don't think we call them a "wuss" for it or anything.

 

Bryson, last year: 322.1 yards

Hank Kuehne: 321.4, the year? 2002.

 

Some people are freaky long. How many majors did Hank win? Let's all take a breath here.

 

More disturbing, perhaps, is the fact the Tour leader so far for 2021 is sitting at 341.5.

But, that is a sampling of 4 drives to get to that number presently.

 

Stats can be used/manipulated, and so can course setup.

Bryson is not the holy coming of distance gods the media is trying to make him out to be.

There's some guys named Hank and John that are having a beer right now and having a laugh at this.

 

I think tour guys used to be more "farm strong" and could still smack it out there, and they used STEEL shafted drivers. Yeah. Let's see Bryson with a DG in his DRIVER. Social media awaits...let's do this!! How long was Greg Norman with a steel-shafted driver? Very long. He was a workout fiend, and no one said change the game back then?

 

[bubbagump]

34 minutes ago, OrangeGravy said:

Sure right NOW, the field isn't experiencing the same performance, but the greater point is that if he's successful enough (doesn't need to totally dominate for this to happen), at some point the field WILL be doing the same thing. He's showing that the field can get to 350+ by choice more so than natural ability. That is the main issue going forward. The differentiator is that. If it was strictly natural ability like TF or Champ, there's no real concern that the field will eventually look the same and if it did, it would take a long time to get there. 

 

The field can not get to 350 by choice lol.  That is natural talent, and there are probably a few to a handful of guys in each tourney that can keep up with BAD as is, without all the weight gain etc.  Bryson was a long hitter as is, and those peers could and do keep pace without the same coverage.  Going forward, long hitters will still be that and still have advantages, but the "field" wont all of the sudden start doing things outside their skillset and physical ability.  

Edited October 11, 2020 by bubbagump

[pinhigh27]

2 hours ago, blueonblack said:

I don't know a lot about Fitzpatrick so I looked to see what SIZE a player he is.

155 lbs and in the lead on the Euro Tour.

 

If you can't see the poor guy's point that linebacker size is needed moving forward, I'm not sure anyone is really paying attention to the state of the pro game? Do you FORCE him to become some physical behemoth he never wanted to be in order to continue to play the pro game? Or can we afford some people with God-given talent and a large amount of work already a place to play moving forward?

 

I don't see sour grapes at all. The Tour is making certain "conditions of employment" essentially a necessity. Large size and strength. Its testing employment law once again I almost have a feeling.

Pro sports are huge non-profit, tax-exempt legal case law testing grounds too.

This is getting interesting....

Rory really has the body of a linebacker doesn’t he ?

[Nard_S]

 

 

The reality is most athletes are not all that much greater than athletes from another era. Jesse Owens comes within hundredths second of the world record holder when you factor the upgrade of turf and shoes.

 

With golfers when you factor the tech of big Ti  and the ball, they really are not all that much better either.

 

Btw, Rory is not tall but he is physically intimidating.  The dude is crazy fit which does not come across as well in pictures or TV. I'm 5'9" & 165lbs, so is he. Night and day. When you see him in person, you "get" his strength. 

[blueonblack]

1 minute ago, pinhigh27 said:

Rory really has the body of a linebacker doesn’t he ?

Nor does Colin Morikawa at 5'9" and 160.

Rors used to be skinny with man boobs. Publicly shamed by Tennis girlfriend, remember?

He bulked up about all he can, and even HE is now getting flack for even saying, "really? What do we have to do out here?"

 

He already hit the weights and did what people are saying "man up" and do. DONE.

Rors is miffed at B.A.D., and frankly so am I, for ALLOWING this narrative to be built around him.

Rors just had a kiddo. Do they all have to put off having kids so they can lift heavy objects 24 hrs a day to keep up with a select few out there? Does Louis O hang it up with his spectacular swing because they are guarding against a few guys now? 

 

I don't blame anyone for anything in this world. But I do reserve the right to ask questions.

[bladehunter]

15 minutes ago, bubbagump said:

 

All that is just cart before horse and based on hypothetical.  Rims didnt get raised for Shaq or Yao, fields didnt get extended because Mahomes can throw it 70 yards, parks arent getting extended because guys can hit 500 foot bombs.   

 

Bryson isn't winning at an alarming rate, the field isnt being lapped, and the winners circle is being populated by parity most weeks.  The PGAT is fine, and isnt being threatened by this but if it becomes obvious something must be done they will at that time.  Right now is so not it lol.  

The mound has been lowered.  Parks have extended  fences , shot clock and 3 point line was introduced to combat superior

Defensive play in basketball.... many examples of rules changes to effect how a game is played. 

[bladehunter]

8 minutes ago, bubbagump said:

 

The field can not get to 350 by choice lol.  That is natural talent, and there are probably a few to a handful of guys in each tourney that can keep up with BAD as is, without all the weight gain etc.  Bryson was a long hitter as is, and those peers could and do keep pace without the same coverage.  Going forward, long hitters will still be that and still have advantages, but the "field" wont all of the sudden start doing things outside their skillset and physical ability.  

The point isn’t not now.  It’s the next cycle and the 2nd cycle after that.  You’ll have 350 being average.  Wait and see.  400 carry is attainable by a lot of players if they train for it from birth.  People rail against bifurcation...... but cheering for Longer drives is the quickest way to a real bifurcation.  One that makes the pro game unrecognizable compared to the club game. It truly already is. And should be. But the illusion or veil has remained.  Pull that back and you may as well just bifurcate to begin with.  Try to repair the mistakes of the 90s.  

[blueonblack]

3 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

The mound has been lowered.  Parks have extended  fences , shot clock and 3 point line was introduced to combat superior

Defensive play in basketball.... many examples of rules changes to effect how a game is played. 

I really like your examples, except that the confines of those other ball parks remain pretty much unchanged. Just the lines within have been blurred when popular decree supposedly demands and they change the rules of the game for ratings or other reasons.

 

Do we want golf, records, and everything else about it affected by decisions relating to ratings, for example? Is golf such a cheap lady we turn her out like that? My answer: Hellz no.

[bubbagump]

7 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

 

 

The reality is most athletes are not all that much greater than athletes from another era. Jesse Owens comes within hundredths second of the world record holder when you factor the upgrade of turf and shoes.

 

With golfers when you factor the tech of big Ti  and the ball, they really are not all that much better either.

 

Btw, Rory is not tall but he is physically intimidating.  The dude is crazy fit which does not come across as well in pictures or TV. I'm 5'9" & 165lbs, so is he. Night and day. When you see him in person, you "get" his strength. 

Disagree.  Sure extrapolating the generational guys or even very good there may not be much difference but the quality and sheer amount of quantity in most every sport has improved, some vastly.  

[bladehunter]

1 minute ago, blueonblack said:

I really like your examples, except that the confines of those other ball parks remain pretty much unchanged. Just the lines within have been blurred when popular decree supposedly demands and they change the rules of the game for ratings or other reasons.

 

Do we want golf, records, and everything else about it affected by decisions relating to ratings, for example? Is golf such a cheap lady we turn her out like that? My answer: Hellz no.

Right.  And that’s is my greater point.  This game should be worth more than tv ratings of longer drives.   Roll the ball and driver back and Bryson still wins same amount.  Just make the game fit the course.  I’ve been yelling  this for years.  It’s not because Bryson did something.  Ive seen it at the local level.  Most local courses won’t really hold a good group of college players.  Period.    

[bubbagump]

3 minutes ago, blueonblack said:

I really like your examples, except that the confines of those other ball parks remain pretty much unchanged. Just the lines within have been blurred when popular decree supposedly demands and they change the rules of the game for ratings or other reasons.

 

Do we want golf, records, and everything else about it affected by decisions relating to ratings, for example? Is golf such a cheap lady we turn her out like that? My answer: Hellz no.

 

Broad stroking all tweaks to rules/officiating/strategy as the same is kind of sloppy.   

[blueonblack]

1 minute ago, bladehunter said:

Right.  And that’s is my greater point.  This game should be worth more than tv ratings of longer drives.   Roll the ball and driver back and Bryson still wins same amount.  Just make the game fit the course.  I’ve been yelling  this for years.  It’s not because Bryson did something.  Ive seen it at the local level.  Most local courses won’t really hold a good group of college players.  Period.    

Thank you. And everyone is in this weird frenzy like the game has to change NOW. AGAIN.

I post stats like Kuehne being like 2 yards behind Bryson 18 years ago, with a greater sampling of drives, no less, and it's like I'm ghost typing.

 

Bryson's not THAT long if we do the math like Bryson.

He is flavor of the day long guy. Sorry (not sorry.)

He has an impeccible pedigree in the game, so it's not like anyone can say he is a flash in the pan.

His brain seems to be his biggest muscle. But we can't let the game be exploited in ways that affect the average golfer, at least. Do what they may to the pro game.

[acemandrake]

Golf is morphing into "Driver, wedge, putter"

 

Pros are almost there

[bladehunter]

11 minutes ago, bubbagump said:

 

Broad stroking all tweaks to rules/officiating/strategy as the same is kind of sloppy.   

Pretty much the choice though.  Broad strokes for the rules is how golf  works.   The alternative is the dreaded B word.  And that brings on allot of angst amongst the masses.  
 

at the same time I realize that isn’t what you meant in a way.  But in another way it’s the same thing.  Most choices or non choices can be boiled down to a simple lynch pin.  Most often it’s $.  Or $ pressure in the name of safety etc.  

if nothing is rolled back it’s because of $.  They’ve talked too much about it to then claim there’s no issue.  Too much smoke.  So loss of revenue  and or lawsuits because of loss of revenue is the only reason not to.  

Edited October 11, 2020 by bladehunter

[Nard_S]

7 minutes ago, bubbagump said:

Disagree.  Sure extrapolating the generational guys or even very good there may not be much difference but the quality and sheer amount of quantity in most every sport has improved, some vastly.  

I second the disagreement, lol. If Norman had big Ti at his disposal, he would crush most all of todays' players. No doubt about it, just go watch what that guy was doing with steel on steel or with persimmon. Insane talent with big stick and he used a ball that no one here on WRX could even play with.

[m d g]

33 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

Jesse Owens comes within hundredths second of the world record holder when you factor the upgrade of turf and shoes.

Owens' winning time in the '36 Olympics would have left him behind high school boys today.

[Nard_S]

2 minutes ago, m d g said:

Owens' winning time in the '36 Olympics would have left him behind high school boys today.

 

It has been researched and when you factor turf & shoes that is not at all true.

 

Can one say "the competitive pool is better", sure. One cannot say with resolution that athletes as representatives of the human species are intrinsically better. Maybe in 10,000 years our evolution shows this, it does not in 100.

[m d g]

8 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

 

It has been researched and when you factor turf & shoes that is not at all true.

 

Can one say "the competitive pool is better", sure. One cannot say with resolution that athletes as representatives of the human species are intrinsically better. Maybe in 10,000 years our evolution shows this, it does not in 100.

It's also training and nutrition, etc. If Owens had been born 20 years ago, I agree...he would be competitive. 

 

But transport him to today as he was then (physically), give him good shoes and on the same track he doesn't even qualify for the Olympic team...

 

You are a product of your environment.

[Nard_S]

Just now, m d g said:

It's also training and nutrition, etc. If Owens had been born 20 years ago, I agree...he would be competitive. 

 

But transport him to today as he was then (physically), give him good shoes and on the same track he doesn't even qualify for the Olympic team...

 

You are a product of your environment.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2016/02/18/lets-all-appreciate-how-fast-jesse-owens/80523426/

 

Pertinent quote:

 

"Biomechanical analysis of the speed of Owens' joints shows that had been running on the same surface as Bolt, he wouldn't have been 14 feet behind, he would have been within one stride," said Epstein.

 

Btw, this is not the data that inspired my view on this.

[bladehunter]

18 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2016/02/18/lets-all-appreciate-how-fast-jesse-owens/80523426/

 

Pertinent quote:

 

"Biomechanical analysis of the speed of Owens' joints shows that had been running on the same surface as Bolt, he wouldn't have been 14 feet behind, he would have been within one stride," said Epstein.

 

Btw, this is not the data that inspired my view on this.

You’re spot on.   I’m a guy who was recruited by D1 schools in the 90s for the 400m.  We had good tech then in shoes etc. but rubberized  surfaces were just catching on.   I got to run on them 1 season full time in 12th grade.  It was instantly faster , why? traction ....

you’ve never lived until you’ve skated around a turn in metal spikes on a damp evening turning 11.80 100m splits on asphalt , one slight slip wouldnt just cost a race , it might cause a seasons ending injury.  When the surface changed the fear of this went out the window.  Much like the ball and driver face now.  We just turned  the heat up and let it all go.  No fear of loosing traction.  Same thing with high jump.  Fear left.  Surface would hold your foot plant for takeoff. 
 

the idea that Owens wouldnt have been instantly faster is nuts. I lived that change first hand.  He would  have got a lighter shoe with modern spikes too.  I had that.  Tech matters.  People who try to deny that haven’t seen the limits of human beings .  This idea that somehow we’re growing then better now is nuts.  What we’re doing is herding the type As together into groups better.  

Edited October 12, 2020 by bladehunter

[m d g]

27 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/entertainthis/2016/02/18/lets-all-appreciate-how-fast-jesse-owens/80523426/

 

Pertinent quote:

 

"Biomechanical analysis of the speed of Owens' joints shows that had been running on the same surface as Bolt, he wouldn't have been 14 feet behind, he would have been within one stride," said Epstein.

 

Btw, this is not the data that inspired my view on this.

Agree to disagree...but by your logic, Bob Hayes was/is faster than both of them...10.06 on a dirt track.

http://www.drmichaeljoyner.com/usain-bolt-vs-bob-hayes/

[m d g]

Btw...love the golf discussion : )

[Tgstan]

I haven’t seen many people talk about an important point in this ‘debate.’

 

Namely, BAD is maybe the first guy to just come out and say “heck with fairways, I’m just gonna hit it as stupidly far as I can. That’s a bigger advantage.”

 

Of course, other pros have alluded to or suggested this approach, but he says it without reservation. I think that’s what’s polarizing people and putting some people off. 

[bladehunter]

3 minutes ago, Tgstan said:

I haven’t seen many people talk about an important point in this ‘debate.’

 

Namely, BAD is maybe the first guy to just come out and say “heck with fairways, I’m just gonna hit it as stupidly far as I can. That’s a bigger advantage.”

 

Of course, other pros have alluded to or suggested this approach, but he says it without reservation. I think that’s what’s polarizing people and putting some people off. 

That’s part of my point.  The lack of fear.  If the ball and driver were rolled back to 1990 , fear would return and that Attitude changes.   Like a kid touching a hot stove.  Negative reinforcement would work.  
 

 

now I say that knowing they won’t do it.  Just saying your point is a good one.  It’s a symptom of the issue.  

[m d g]

8 minutes ago, Tgstan said:

Namely, BAD is maybe the first guy to just come out and say “heck with fairways, I’m just gonna hit it as stupidly far as I can. That’s a bigger advantage.”

Isn't that how Daly won at Crooked Stick?

[bubbagump]

15 minutes ago, Tgstan said:

I haven’t seen many people talk about an important point in this ‘debate.’

 

Namely, BAD is maybe the first guy to just come out and say “heck with fairways, I’m just gonna hit it as stupidly far as I can. That’s a bigger advantage.”

 

Of course, other pros have alluded to or suggested this approach, but he says it without reservation. I think that’s what’s polarizing people and putting some people off. 

Saying it really means nothing.  Guys have been doing the same for a while, and weve watched it at tournaments each week, big or janky.  Bomb and gouge era has been alive and well for some time.  

Edited October 12, 2020 by bubbagump

[pinhigh27]

12 minutes ago, Tgstan said:

I haven’t seen many people talk about an important point in this ‘debate.’

 

Namely, BAD is maybe the first guy to just come out and say “heck with fairways, I’m just gonna hit it as stupidly far as I can. That’s a bigger advantage.”

 

Of course, other pros have alluded to or suggested this approach, but he says it without reservation. I think that’s what’s polarizing people and putting some people off. 

Who is saying that ? The goal is to hit it both long and straight. Hence how he has videos of hit hitting ball speeds in the 200s but never does that on the course. You want to be able to swing faster so you can tone it down for control. 
 

where is finau swinging hitting 200 ball speed on the course , when obviously he clearly can ?

[tungstenplug]

Hitting the ball far is a skill

[Soloman1]