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Upgrading from 845s Silver Scot (1988)


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New to the forums, and I'm pretty sure this post belongs here, but please let me know if not and I'll move it. 

I haven't had new irons since my dad bought me a set of Tommy Armour 845s Silver Scot back in 1988 when I made the high-school golf team. I've cycled through new drivers, woods, wedges, and putters since then, but the irons have remained constant. I'm a 10 handicap, average swing speed of 90mph, and reliably hit my 7-iron about 150yds.

This summer I made the decision to get fitted for a new iron set. I went to a reputable fitter just north of Boston and got placed into a set of Ping G410 (4-PW), black dot, stiff shaft. Short of the long of it is that I've been struggling to hit these new irons well since I got them and am starting to question the fit. I'm striking the irons consistently off center out towards the toe. They're forgiving so the ball still goes fairly straight, but I lose a lot of distance. I never had a hard time hitting the 845s flush. 

I've been to the range religiously with the new irons, and playing a round about 1-2x a week. In short, for a game-improvement iron I feel like I'm working really hard to hit these well. I've made an appointment to go back to the fitter next week to have the fit double-checked to make sure we got it right, but I'm also starting to think these irons might not be right for me. I don't necessarily like the way they look at address (topline is much thicker than the 845s), and even when I do hit them flush they don't feel as buttery smooth as the 845s. I've found myself putting my old 3-iron in the bag just to have reliable club to hit from the tee.

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions on irons that might be worth checking out as I continue to seek an upgrade from the 845s? I know that the 845s were one of the first GI irons back in the day, but curious if their smaller heads and thinner toplines put them more in line with today's players-distance iron than a GI like the G410...i.e. maybe I should try the i500s?

Sorry for the long post, but any advice or input would be much appreciated!

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Is this a trick question? You can't upgrade from the TA 845s Silver Scot.    

$350 after 4 rounds for trade in value is awful. I would advise putting them on ebay with pictures, stating you only played 4 rounds. If you paid lets say $800 for the set, I will be surprised if you

Another thumbs up for Silver Scotts!   My set is used 2X a month and use them for guests.   I reshafted them a few years ago with DGR300's as the original shafts kept snapping from

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To me the 845'S were some of the best irons EVER made, way ahead of their time. I got them when they came out and played them for almost 15 years. I would agree with you to a point on them being in the "players group" of irons due to their size and topline.

 

They are going to be hard to replace but it will be up to you to adjust your mindset. To be honest I never would have gotten the 410's if I didn't like the look of them. They are excellent irons but you have to like what you're looking down at as well.

 

How did you hit them during the fitting?

Is there any kind of guarantee with your fitter?

Is there a particular iron that fits your eye?

 

I would start there but you need to decide first how much time your going to practice and then play. 

 

You will get MULTIPLE suggestions here based on everyone's experience with what they have played. Basically all the OEM's make good stuff.

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Thanks so much for the response. The fitting was the first I had ever done, and it was information overload. The fitter clearly knew what he was doing, but I was getting hit with so much new information (ball speed, launch angle, spin rate, efficiency ratio) that it was hard to process everything on the spot. In retrospect, I probably shouldn't have done a whole-bag fitting in one go, but instead parsed them out over time (driver and woods one day, irons another, wedges another, etc).

 

To answer your questions: I hit about 8-10 shots with the G410s during the fitting and they were good in terms of feel, flight, and the Trackman data (it was a full-flight facility). Guarantee with the fitter is unknown, but he did say if I had issues to come back and we would work on them. At worst, I hope they would at least let me trade them in with some kind of re-stocking fee. As for what fits my eye...I've been thinking lately of something with a thinner topline and smaller head. That said, I don't love the Pings standing over them, but I don't hate them either. I'm mindful of the fact that I'm moving to a new iron after 32 years, and so there might be an adjustment period, but just don't feel like it's coming together with these after 10+ range sessions and probably 5 rounds.  

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If you still have the old ones, and have access to a shop with a swing weight scale, I would bring both sets in and get the comparison done.  It sounds like either the overall weight or the swing weight difference is probably leading to some funky swing mechanics thus the toe side hit.  Also have them check length between the two sets.  

 

For the toe side hits, is it across the entire set?  Or more on the longer irons vs. shorter?  

 

I would take some time and set an appointment up with the fitter and have them try and diagnose the issue - a reputable fitter definitely wants you playing something that works vs. struggling with it.

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OP - from your 2nd post, I would definitely call the fitter and ask for their help and opinion.  Most fitters really want to put a player into something that inspires confidence, and should work to help get these right for you.

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29 minutes ago, cfmgolf said:

If you still have the old ones, and have access to a shop with a swing weight scale, I would bring both sets in and get the comparison done.  It sounds like either the overall weight or the swing weight difference is probably leading to some funky swing mechanics thus the toe side hit.  Also have them check length between the two sets.  

 

For the toe side hits, is it across the entire set?  Or more on the longer irons vs. shorter?  

 

I would take some time and set an appointment up with the fitter and have them try and diagnose the issue - a reputable fitter definitely wants you playing something that works vs. struggling with it.

I do still have my 845s, so will definitely bring them with me when I go back this week. Thank you for the advice! I definitely think it's more pronounced with the 4-7, but even the 8 and 9 are prone to have hits out towards the toe. The PW is fine. 

 

Curious...if it's a swing weight issue, is that something that I will just adjust to over time, or should it be an adjustment to the clubs to bring it in line with my swing?

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I hope he had you try graphite in a stiff flex? Your 845's might have a softer flex. Toe hits are indicative of a short shaft. Too bad you couldn't have put graphite shafts in your 845's.The 845 and Ping Eye 2, are brilliant irons. 

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6 hours ago, JD77 said:

I do still have my 845s, so will definitely bring them with me when I go back this week. Thank you for the advice! I definitely think it's more pronounced with the 4-7, but even the 8 and 9 are prone to have hits out towards the toe. The PW is fine. 

 

Curious...if it's a swing weight issue, is that something that I will just adjust to over time, or should it be an adjustment to the clubs to bring it in line with my swing?


I have some experience in switching from decades old irons into new ones... I started the season with 1996 burners and upgraded to (new to me) adams cmbs this year...

 

new shafts, different lengths... nothing was the same. It took me a bit to adjust out of irons I had played my whole life with, but didn’t take a long time. Eventually I was hitting hem better than my old irons.

 

it sounds like the pings aren’t properly fit for you... hopefully the fitter wants to make it right and will work with you! Lots of options, but the first step is to go back to them and see what they say and what the numbers show.

 

if he’s not helpful and it’s not resolved, I highly recommend reaching out to ping... they have a reputation of taking care of customers, so I’d bet they want to help resolve any issue.

 

You might not love the irons visually, but it is most likely a build issue if you are hitting the toe consistently. It could be a number of issues!

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@JD77

 

I had 845's when I started playing golf in the 90's and I believe I shot my personal best a 79 with them. 

 

I recently tried a smaller GI iron to give it a go because my hc is probably around 15 but I hit them much worse than my small cheap blades for some reason. The heads were bigger than what I've always been accustomed to and I had problems hitting near the center. This may be your issue as well. There are a lot of small cavity backs to choose from that should fit your eye. I don't think the GI clubs will probably suit you. BTW, a lot of small cb are actually quite forgiving based on the MPF (Maltby Playability Factor). so no real compromise should be made. Also, you might look at a regular shaft (300 cpm) instead of stiff as the 845's had softer shafts too.

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I have a set of the original 845s and still take them out for a spin from time to time and they're timeless irons.  Their blade length rivals to that of today's blades and their conservative lofts make them very appealing to better players.  Obviously the G410s are much more forgiving and can't figure out why you're hitting them out of the toe.  Is is possible to check the lie angles?   I suggest you go back to your fitter to verify the specs and bring your 845s to compare.

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Another thumbs up for Silver Scotts!

 

My set is used 2X a month and use them for guests.

 

I reshafted them a few years ago with DGR300's as the original shafts kept snapping from rust! HAha!

 

Still love them.

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14 hours ago, Myherobobhope said:


I have some experience in switching from decades old irons into new ones... I started the season with 1996 burners and upgraded to (new to me) adams cmbs this year...

 

new shafts, different lengths... nothing was the same. It took me a bit to adjust out of irons I had played my whole life with, but didn’t take a long time. Eventually I was hitting hem better than my old irons.

 

it sounds like the pings aren’t properly fit for you... hopefully the fitter wants to make it right and will work with you! Lots of options, but the first step is to go back to them and see what they say and what the numbers show.

 

if he’s not helpful and it’s not resolved, I highly recommend reaching out to ping... they have a reputation of taking care of customers, so I’d bet they want to help resolve any issue.

 

You might not love the irons visually, but it is most likely a build issue if you are hitting the toe consistently. It could be a number of issues!

 

Thanks for the reply, great advice and very much appreciated! I'm hopeful the fitter will work with me to straighten it all out (no pun intended). Good to know about Ping C.S. too...again, thanks! 

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13 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Did you hit Titleist T200?  They would be a good match up to your 845s, but with modern tech.  This assumes the head is where you have a bad fit.

 

Thank you, I've added them to a short list of other irons I'd like to try. Others on the list include: 

 

Mizuno JPX919 Forged

Callaway Apex 19

TaylorMade P790

 

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On 10/12/2020 at 12:13 PM, JD77 said:

New to the forums, and I'm pretty sure this post belongs here, but please let me know if not and I'll move it. 

I haven't had new irons since my dad bought me a set of Tommy Armour 845s Silver Scot back in 1988 when I made the high-school golf team. I've cycled through new drivers, woods, wedges, and putters since then, but the irons have remained constant. I'm a 10 handicap, average swing speed of 90mph, and reliably hit my 7-iron about 150yds.

This summer I made the decision to get fitted for a new iron set. I went to a reputable fitter just north of Boston and got placed into a set of Ping G410 (4-PW), black dot, stiff shaft. Short of the long of it is that I've been struggling to hit these new irons well since I got them and am starting to question the fit. I'm striking the irons consistently off center out towards the toe. They're forgiving so the ball still goes fairly straight, but I lose a lot of distance. I never had a hard time hitting the 845s flush. 

I've been to the range religiously with the new irons, and playing a round about 1-2x a week. In short, for a game-improvement iron I feel like I'm working really hard to hit these well. I've made an appointment to go back to the fitter next week to have the fit double-checked to make sure we got it right, but I'm also starting to think these irons might not be right for me. I don't necessarily like the way they look at address (topline is much thicker than the 845s), and even when I do hit them flush they don't feel as buttery smooth as the 845s. I've found myself putting my old 3-iron in the bag just to have reliable club to hit from the tee.

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions on irons that might be worth checking out as I continue to seek an upgrade from the 845s? I know that the 845s were one of the first GI irons back in the day, but curious if their smaller heads and thinner toplines put them more in line with today's players-distance iron than a GI like the G410...i.e. maybe I should try the i500s?

Sorry for the long post, but any advice or input would be much appreciated!


My father had set of the 845s years ago. I remember hitting them and they were a fantastic iron.

From what I recall, the heads were on the smaller size so as someone mentioned earlier, the G410 head may not suit your eye and you may not be as confident over the ball.

I play the Pine i210 and I love them. The heads will have a thinner top line than the 410, but they head size may still be a little larger than your 845s. The Ping Blueprint would probably be the closest overall to the 845s.

If you did not hit the i210, I would strongly advise. It is the #1 iron on the LPGA Tour and top notch PGA players like Tyrell Hatton, Viktor Hovland, Lee Westwood and Mackenzie Hughes have them in their bags.

Also, since you already have a set of Pings, the trade in value should help towards them.

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23 hours ago, JD77 said:

I do still have my 845s, so will definitely bring them with me when I go back this week. Thank you for the advice! I definitely think it's more pronounced with the 4-7, but even the 8 and 9 are prone to have hits out towards the toe. The PW is fine. 

 

Curious...if it's a swing weight issue, is that something that I will just adjust to over time, or should it be an adjustment to the clubs to bring it in line with my swing?

JD77 - Depending on how large a difference any of the measurements are, it is a combination of all for the fitter and yourself to work through.  Keep us posted on what you find out when you get a chance to go back and work with them.    

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When I changed my irons from Lynx Black Cat irons I tried  to see a similar looking iron. The Cobra Baffler XL irons were just about a perfect match. Much heavier head but same offset. Took no time to hit them the way I hit the Black Cats. These are way better. Just go into a pro shop and look for the same head design.Good luck.

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2 hours ago, pup142 said:

When I changed my irons from Lynx Black Cat irons I tried  to see a similar looking iron. The Cobra Baffler XL irons were just about a perfect match. Much heavier head but same offset. Took no time to hit them the way I hit the Black Cats. These are way better. Just go into a pro shop and look for the same head design.Good luck.

  I would say this is pretty sound advice.

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On 10/12/2020 at 12:13 PM, JD77 said:

New to the forums, and I'm pretty sure this post belongs here, but please let me know if not and I'll move it. 

I haven't had new irons since my dad bought me a set of Tommy Armour 845s Silver Scot back in 1988 when I made the high-school golf team. I've cycled through new drivers, woods, wedges, and putters since then, but the irons have remained constant. I'm a 10 handicap, average swing speed of 90mph, and reliably hit my 7-iron about 150yds.

This summer I made the decision to get fitted for a new iron set. I went to a reputable fitter just north of Boston and got placed into a set of Ping G410 (4-PW), black dot, stiff shaft. Short of the long of it is that I've been struggling to hit these new irons well since I got them and am starting to question the fit. I'm striking the irons consistently off center out towards the toe. They're forgiving so the ball still goes fairly straight, but I lose a lot of distance. I never had a hard time hitting the 845s flush. 

I've been to the range religiously with the new irons, and playing a round about 1-2x a week. In short, for a game-improvement iron I feel like I'm working really hard to hit these well. I've made an appointment to go back to the fitter next week to have the fit double-checked to make sure we got it right, but I'm also starting to think these irons might not be right for me. I don't necessarily like the way they look at address (topline is much thicker than the 845s), and even when I do hit them flush they don't feel as buttery smooth as the 845s. I've found myself putting my old 3-iron in the bag just to have reliable club to hit from the tee.

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions on irons that might be worth checking out as I continue to seek an upgrade from the 845s? I know that the 845s were one of the first GI irons back in the day, but curious if their smaller heads and thinner toplines put them more in line with today's players-distance iron than a GI like the G410...i.e. maybe I should try the i500s?

Sorry for the long post, but any advice or input would be much appreciated!

 

I just found out Tommy Armour has a new line of 845's. There are reviews out there too.

 

https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/f/tommy-armour-family?filterFacets=facetStore%3AISA%2CSHIP

 

 

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On 10/13/2020 at 2:27 PM, cfmgolf said:

JD77 - Depending on how large a difference any of the measurements are, it is a combination of all for the fitter and yourself to work through.  Keep us posted on what you find out when you get a chance to go back and work with them.    

 

Thanks everyone for taking the time to provide your input and advice, it's very much appreciated! 

 

I snuck out to another fitter this morning, Golf & Ski Warehouse in NH for those of you who might know it. This was a very different fitting experience in that the fitter took his time to walk me through each iron he was having me try, as well as why he was changing the shafts, and what he was looking for. 


The data we got from the G410s was good, but he was surprised I was fitted into a GI iron since my swing is pretty consistent. He then had me try some better player irons, including Callaway Apex, Mizuno JPX919 Forged, Ping i210, and TaylorMade P790s. The numbers on the Mizuno were the best, but the I liked the feel of the 790s the most. 

 

He hated the driver fit I got (Cleveland Launcher HB). He said the shaft I had was far too wimpy for my swing. He ended up fitting me into a Callaway Mavrik with an Evenflow Riptide 50g shaft. 

 

Trade-in quotes on the "new" Pings and Cleveland driver weren't that great ($350 and $130 respectively). I suppose i could get more in a private sale (the new clubs have only been played for about 4 rounds). 

 

I am heading down to the original fitter on Friday to discuss the fit into the G410s. Not sure how to frame the conversation though. When I was first fit into them we didn't talk about return/exachange/etc. if I didn't end up liking the clubs. We didn't talk about much to be honest, the fitter moved so quick. Anyway, any more advice or thoughts on all this? Sorry again for a long post, but I do appreciate all the help! 

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Are the Pings lighter than the Armours were? A bit o lead tape may help if that is the case.  

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I played the 845s back in the 1990s.  Then went to TA EVO V31, then Hogan Apex Plus, then Mizuno MX23, then MP60, then J40 DPC...

 

I now play the Ping i210s and love them.  I am a 10 handicap and hit my 7 iron 150 yards also.

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I played the 845s for 16 years and still have my staff bag with the 2 iron in it as a momento. They were called GI but were a serious players club being played on tour by Freddy and DL3. I moved into the Titleist 735 CM which had blades 8-P and they were a good fit because I prefer a compact size. I recently moved after 12 years in the AP2, which was the closes thing I could find that descended from the Titleist DCI (created by the 845s designer). IMO, the clubs at setup have to fit your eye and your swing. Thicker toplines just aren't going to cut it. 

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Awesome thread. The Silver Scots are legendary.  I recall the 845’s had appreciable offset and that is why you might have been fit with something similar.  You’re on the right track. The Mizuno JPX 919’s are a close fit eye test wise as they have more offset than the 921’s 

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