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Upgrading from 845s Silver Scot (1988)


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Is this a trick question? You can't upgrade from the TA 845s Silver Scot.    

$350 after 4 rounds for trade in value is awful. I would advise putting them on ebay with pictures, stating you only played 4 rounds. If you paid lets say $800 for the set, I will be surprised if you

Another thumbs up for Silver Scotts!   My set is used 2X a month and use them for guests.   I reshafted them a few years ago with DGR300's as the original shafts kept snapping from

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What’s your ground contact like?  I tend to pick it a little and big game improvement heads don’t get through the turf well enough.  For me, even when I could really use all the extra help, some of the game improvement irons are just too chunky in the sole for me to make good contact.  If you were hitting off of mats for the fitting this may not of been as much of an issue.  The ping i500’s or i210’s were a much better fit.

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Good chance that the shaft in your Silver Scots is quite a bit heavier than what you have in your new Pings.  Don't know if that would cause any problems for you.  Ping also tend to have a lower swing weight at D0/D1.  Ping G series irons are great, but not for everyone.  You're coming from a more compact head, G410 has a wider sole, longer blade, thicker topline and a lot more offset.  I don't think its the fitting, if they're not working after 10 range sessions and 5 rounds it may be time to make a change.

You might like something like the Callaway Apex 19 or Srixon Z585/785 which are more traditional in shape and size.

Edited by Tommyj
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Stick with what works, I'm still playing Titleist 735cm,s and I've tried all the latest stuff when it comes out. All they've done is turn modern clubs into shovels and jack the irons up so much you think you're better than you are. When in reality you're just hitting a 8 iron with a PW on the bottom. Don't get me wrong, there's some great clubs out there being produced but as far as the older clubs, not really a great improvement. The last thing I want is half a bag of wedges. And now in an attempt to fly them farther their foaming the hollow irons so you have a bag of hybrids. 

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On 10/12/2020 at 12:13 PM, JD77 said:

New to the forums, and I'm pretty sure this post belongs here, but please let me know if not and I'll move it. 

I haven't had new irons since my dad bought me a set of Tommy Armour 845s Silver Scot back in 1988 when I made the high-school golf team. I've cycled through new drivers, woods, wedges, and putters since then, but the irons have remained constant. I'm a 10 handicap, average swing speed of 90mph, and reliably hit my 7-iron about 150yds.

This summer I made the decision to get fitted for a new iron set. I went to a reputable fitter just north of Boston and got placed into a set of Ping G410 (4-PW), black dot, stiff shaft. Short of the long of it is that I've been struggling to hit these new irons well since I got them and am starting to question the fit. I'm striking the irons consistently off center out towards the toe. They're forgiving so the ball still goes fairly straight, but I lose a lot of distance. I never had a hard time hitting the 845s flush. 

I've been to the range religiously with the new irons, and playing a round about 1-2x a week. In short, for a game-improvement iron I feel like I'm working really hard to hit these well. I've made an appointment to go back to the fitter next week to have the fit double-checked to make sure we got it right, but I'm also starting to think these irons might not be right for me. I don't necessarily like the way they look at address (topline is much thicker than the 845s), and even when I do hit them flush they don't feel as buttery smooth as the 845s. I've found myself putting my old 3-iron in the bag just to have reliable club to hit from the tee.

I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions on irons that might be worth checking out as I continue to seek an upgrade from the 845s? I know that the 845s were one of the first GI irons back in the day, but curious if their smaller heads and thinner toplines put them more in line with today's players-distance iron than a GI like the G410...i.e. maybe I should try the i500s?

Sorry for the long post, but any advice or input would be much appreciated!


$350 after 4 rounds for trade in value is awful. I would advise putting them on ebay with pictures, stating you only played 4 rounds. If you paid lets say $800 for the set, I will be surprised if you get less than $500-$600 for them.

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3 hours ago, jomatty said:

What’s your ground contact like?  I tend to pick it a little and big game improvement heads don’t get through the turf well enough.  For me, even when I could really use all the extra help, some of the game improvement irons are just too chunky in the sole for me to make good contact.  If you were hitting off of mats for the fitting this may not of been as much of an issue.  The ping i500’s or i210’s were a much better fit.

 

This was what I found when I tried to go to supposedly 'more forgiving' irons from my current set as I was playing bad. I don't take divots, so the chunkier irons was not working for me - I play 2016 Cobra ForgedTecs with Recoil shafts, and tried a set of F8's and F9's with similar shafts. It was the turf interaction that was messing up my shots (Ended up taking lessons which were a much better investment, but that's another discussion).

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21 hours ago, JD77 said:

 

Thanks everyone for taking the time to provide your input and advice, it's very much appreciated! 

 

I snuck out to another fitter this morning, Golf & Ski Warehouse in NH for those of you who might know it. This was a very different fitting experience in that the fitter took his time to walk me through each iron he was having me try, as well as why he was changing the shafts, and what he was looking for. 


The data we got from the G410s was good, but he was surprised I was fitted into a GI iron since my swing is pretty consistent. He then had me try some better player irons, including Callaway Apex, Mizuno JPX919 Forged, Ping i210, and TaylorMade P790s. The numbers on the Mizuno were the best, but the I liked the feel of the 790s the most. 

 

He hated the driver fit I got (Cleveland Launcher HB). He said the shaft I had was far too wimpy for my swing. He ended up fitting me into a Callaway Mavrik with an Evenflow Riptide 50g shaft. 

 

Trade-in quotes on the "new" Pings and Cleveland driver weren't that great ($350 and $130 respectively). I suppose i could get more in a private sale (the new clubs have only been played for about 4 rounds). 

 

I am heading down to the original fitter on Friday to discuss the fit into the G410s. Not sure how to frame the conversation though. When I was first fit into them we didn't talk about return/exachange/etc. if I didn't end up liking the clubs. We didn't talk about much to be honest, the fitter moved so quick. Anyway, any more advice or thoughts on all this? Sorry again for a long post, but I do appreciate all the help! 

 

I would tell him what you are experiencing after significant play (10 range sessons and 5 rounds).

 

Could you try a ping iron that's more of a player's model? and one that matches the static weight of your set.

 

Meaning that the shafts are a closer match on weight.

 

that might be better.

 

swingweight is one thing, but it's not an absolute.  

 

It's more important to know the weight difference in shafts, even in the total build (head and shaft).

 

Do you have a means to weigh your silver scots (grams total weight per club) and the new ones?

 

It's pretty common, as has been mentioned, that modern fittings will put players into lighter shafts.

 

(back in the day, it was common to have 130 g dynamic golds in a lot of sets, and nowadays it seems the stock recommendation for a lot of fitters is a 105 g shaft (not as familiar with Ping offerings as they make their own shafts).

 

For the driver, you could save yourself a bunch of money and buy the evenflow shaft on ebay, and have it installed in your Cleveland head.  I'm sure the Mavrik is a great fit with the evenflow shaft, but I'm sure it's in the neighborhood of $500.

 

 

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Lead Tape lovingly applied - Driver through GW
TEE EXS +1* to 11.5* - Testing at 43.5" w/ Matrix 7M3 stiff untipped
TEE XCG7 Beta 4W 16.5* - Matrix 8M2 Stiff
TEE XCG7 Beta 22*H - 2020 Aldila Rogue Black 85H TS
TEE XCG7 Beta 25*H - Diamana Thump i465ct 4i shaft stiff 
Wishon 560MC's 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) at -1/2" length KBS Tour C-Taper Lite R
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56 and 60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
SC Futura X5r 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0
 

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Here are the specs I found for the Silver Scots.

Which shafts did you have in them (graphite or steel)?

 


Iron Specifications
line
 
Tommy Armour | 845s Silver Scot
Year: 1988
 
Iron
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
PW
W2
GW
SW
S2
S3
LW
Loft(°)
16
18
21
24
27
31
35
39
43
47
-
51
55
-
-
60
Lie(°)
58.5
57.5
58.5
59
60
61
61.5
62
62.5
63
-
63
63
-
-
63
Length(")
39.75
39.25
38.75
38.25
37.75
37.25
36.75
36.25
35.75
35.5
-
35.5
35.25
-
-
35.25
Offset
.393
.353
.314
.277
.242
.208
.175
.144
.115
.090
-
.075
.025
-
-
-.025
Bounce
-2
-1
-
1
1
2
2
3
3
5
-
7
15
-
-
9
Swingweight
D1-D3
D1-D3
D1-D3
D1-D3
D1-D3
D1-D3
D1-D3
D1-D3
D1-D3
D2-D4
-
D2-D4
D3-D5
-
-
D3-D5

Notes: Lengths noted are for steel shafts. Add .50" to shown length for graphite lengths. Swingweights noted are for standard steel and graphite shafts with Lamkin non-slip half cord grips. Add 1 swingweight point for True Temper Sensicore steel shafts. Shaft options include Armour Tour Step steel and Armour G-Force 3.1 graphite.

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Lead Tape lovingly applied - Driver through GW
TEE EXS +1* to 11.5* - Testing at 43.5" w/ Matrix 7M3 stiff untipped
TEE XCG7 Beta 4W 16.5* - Matrix 8M2 Stiff
TEE XCG7 Beta 22*H - 2020 Aldila Rogue Black 85H TS
TEE XCG7 Beta 25*H - Diamana Thump i465ct 4i shaft stiff 
Wishon 560MC's 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) at -1/2" length KBS Tour C-Taper Lite R
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56 and 60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
SC Futura X5r 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0
 

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and G410 specs

 

 

G410
Specifications
CLUB LENGTH LOFT POWER SPEC LOFT RETRO SPEC LOFT LIE ANGLE OFFSET BOUNCE SWINGWEIGHT
4-iron 38 7/8"7/8 20.5°degrees 19.0°degrees 22.0°degrees 60.5°degrees 0.27"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 5.0°degrees D0
5-iron 38 1/4"1/4 23.5°degrees 22.0°degrees 25.0°degrees 61.0°degrees 0.24"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 6.0°degrees D0
6-iron 37 5/8"5/8 26.5°degrees 25.0°degrees 28.3°degrees 61.5°degrees 0.21"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 7.0°degrees D0
7-iron 37" 30.0°degrees 28.5°degrees 32.3°degrees 62.0°degrees 0.18"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 8.0°degrees D0
8-iron 36 1/2"1/2 34.5°degrees 32.5°degrees 37.0°degrees 62.8°degrees 0.15"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 9.0°degrees D0
9-iron 36" 39.5°degrees 37.5°degrees 42.0°degrees 63.5°degrees 0.13"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 11.0°degrees D0.5
PW 35 1/2"1/2 44.5°degrees 42.5°degrees 47.0°degrees 64.1°degrees 0.11"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 12.0°degrees D2
UW 35 1/2"1/2 49.5°degrees 47.5°degrees 51.8°degrees 64.1°degrees 0.11"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 12.0°degrees D2
SW 35 1/4"1/4 54.0°degrees 52.5°degrees 56.0°degrees 64.4°degrees 0.09"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 13.0°degrees D3
LW 35" 58.0°degrees 58.0°degrees 60.0°degrees 64.6°degrees 0.08"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 13.0°degrees D4

NOTES

  • These are design specifications that may vary due to manufacturing tolerances.
  • Lie angle is based on Black Color Code at standard length.
  • Power Spec Loft is a fitting option for players looking to boost their iron distance or decrease spin to hit a desired trajectory window. The Power Spec is a custom-designed loft configuration that delivers a power boost in a calculated fashion without sacrificing the integrity of the club’s design.
  • Club bounce angles will vary slightly if ordered with non-standard loft specs.
  • Standard swingweights for graphite-shafted clubs are 1 to 2 points lighter than shown, depending on shaft flex.
  • Achievable swingweights depend on shaft, length and grip combinations.
  • Available in left- and right-handed models.

 

Lead Tape lovingly applied - Driver through GW
TEE EXS +1* to 11.5* - Testing at 43.5" w/ Matrix 7M3 stiff untipped
TEE XCG7 Beta 4W 16.5* - Matrix 8M2 Stiff
TEE XCG7 Beta 22*H - 2020 Aldila Rogue Black 85H TS
TEE XCG7 Beta 25*H - Diamana Thump i465ct 4i shaft stiff 
Wishon 560MC's 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) at -1/2" length KBS Tour C-Taper Lite R
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56 and 60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
SC Futura X5r 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0
 

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Another former 845 player here. They were handed down from my dad to my older brother then to me. They were my first adult-sized irons and I played them for quite a few years. I should still have the W4 wedge somewhere.

 

FWIW I went from the 845s to Titleist irons back when they made their first push for custom-fitting and never got comfortable with the Titleists. I sold them and bought Mizuno T-Zoid Pros in the early days of Ebay and played them until 2005 when I got new custom-fit into MP32/MP60 irons and played those until this season. This year I have bought and sold a couple things trying to find my next long-term set and, at the end of the day, I'm sticking with Mizuno. Given that I have fond memories of the 845ss and have loved all my Mizunos, I'd recommend checking them out. I know you tried the 919, but I'd also take a look at the MMC. It has the thin topline and players club appearance that it sounds like you're looking for, and it has a lot of forgiveness considering how responsive it is. Best of luck to you.

 

Last but not least, as others have stated, it sounds like you have a massive disconnect between old and new irons in terms of total weight and/or Swing Weight which, along with shaft length, could produce those toe misses. There's still hope that simple tweaks will keep you in the Pings if you're looking for your cheapest outcome.

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Geochitown, brilliant info. The bounce really stands out, 845 2.0 and 425 8.0, huge difference, and swing weight D-3 vs D-0. I think the lighter club/bounce is causing the toe hit.

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another day, and a different game shows up

Ping Max 10.5

Cobra F9 5,7 wds

RBZ 4,5 hybrids

G700 5-AW irons

MD5 54 10S

Toulon Columbus

Maxfli Tour

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6 hours ago, geochitown said:

 

I would tell him what you are experiencing after significant play (10 range sessons and 5 rounds).

 

Could you try a ping iron that's more of a player's model? and one that matches the static weight of your set.

 

Meaning that the shafts are a closer match on weight.

 

that might be better.

 

swingweight is one thing, but it's not an absolute.  

 

It's more important to know the weight difference in shafts, even in the total build (head and shaft).

 

Do you have a means to weigh your silver scots (grams total weight per club) and the new ones?

 

It's pretty common, as has been mentioned, that modern fittings will put players into lighter shafts.

 

(back in the day, it was common to have 130 g dynamic golds in a lot of sets, and nowadays it seems the stock recommendation for a lot of fitters is a 105 g shaft (not as familiar with Ping offerings as they make their own shafts).

 

For the driver, you could save yourself a bunch of money and buy the evenflow shaft on ebay, and have it installed in your Cleveland head.  I'm sure the Mavrik is a great fit with the evenflow shaft, but I'm sure it's in the neighborhood of $500.

 

 

This is great, thank you so much for the advice! I hope (maybe) that the fitter will be able to speak to the weight of the shafts? I will definitely bring it up.

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can you, to the best of your ability, share with the group what the shafts are on the two sets of clubs?

Lead Tape lovingly applied - Driver through GW
TEE EXS +1* to 11.5* - Testing at 43.5" w/ Matrix 7M3 stiff untipped
TEE XCG7 Beta 4W 16.5* - Matrix 8M2 Stiff
TEE XCG7 Beta 22*H - 2020 Aldila Rogue Black 85H TS
TEE XCG7 Beta 25*H - Diamana Thump i465ct 4i shaft stiff 
Wishon 560MC's 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) at -1/2" length KBS Tour C-Taper Lite R
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56 and 60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
SC Futura X5r 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0
 

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4 hours ago, geochitown said:

and G410 specs

 

 

G410
Specifications
CLUB LENGTH LOFT POWER SPEC LOFT RETRO SPEC LOFT LIE ANGLE OFFSET BOUNCE SWINGWEIGHT
4-iron 38 7/8"7/8 20.5°degrees 19.0°degrees 22.0°degrees 60.5°degrees 0.27"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 5.0°degrees D0
5-iron 38 1/4"1/4 23.5°degrees 22.0°degrees 25.0°degrees 61.0°degrees 0.24"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 6.0°degrees D0
6-iron 37 5/8"5/8 26.5°degrees 25.0°degrees 28.3°degrees 61.5°degrees 0.21"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 7.0°degrees D0
7-iron 37" 30.0°degrees 28.5°degrees 32.3°degrees 62.0°degrees 0.18"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 8.0°degrees D0
8-iron 36 1/2"1/2 34.5°degrees 32.5°degrees 37.0°degrees 62.8°degrees 0.15"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 9.0°degrees D0
9-iron 36" 39.5°degrees 37.5°degrees 42.0°degrees 63.5°degrees 0.13"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 11.0°degrees D0.5
PW 35 1/2"1/2 44.5°degrees 42.5°degrees 47.0°degrees 64.1°degrees 0.11"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 12.0°degrees D2
UW 35 1/2"1/2 49.5°degrees 47.5°degrees 51.8°degrees 64.1°degrees 0.11"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 12.0°degrees D2
SW 35 1/4"1/4 54.0°degrees 52.5°degrees 56.0°degrees 64.4°degrees 0.09"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 13.0°degrees D3
LW 35" 58.0°degrees 58.0°degrees 60.0°degrees 64.6°degrees 0.08"Ping.Clubs.Specs.Offset.Units 13.0°degrees D4

NOTES

  • These are design specifications that may vary due to manufacturing tolerances.
  • Lie angle is based on Black Color Code at standard length.
  • Power Spec Loft is a fitting option for players looking to boost their iron distance or decrease spin to hit a desired trajectory window. The Power Spec is a custom-designed loft configuration that delivers a power boost in a calculated fashion without sacrificing the integrity of the club’s design.
  • Club bounce angles will vary slightly if ordered with non-standard loft specs.
  • Standard swingweights for graphite-shafted clubs are 1 to 2 points lighter than shown, depending on shaft flex.
  • Achievable swingweights depend on shaft, length and grip combinations.
  • Available in left- and right-handed models.

 

This is extremely helpful information, thank you. I have steel shafts in the 845s. I still have the original shafts in almost all of them...Tommy Armour Tour Step (S). 

 

It looks lke the swingweights are considerably different between the two sets of irons...which would seem to suggest my struggles hitting the G410s flush. I guess my next question would be...is that just something you just eventually get used to, or is worth trying to get the weights dialed in on the G410s? 

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2 minutes ago, geochitown said:

can you, to the best of your ability, share with the group what the shafts are on the two sets of clubs?

Absolutely, and thanks again to everyone for your time in helping me sort this all out.

 

845s have the original Tommy Armour Tour Step (stiff) shafts. I'm not sure who these were manufactured by in 1988, but I believe later iterations of the 845s (early 2000s) it was TruTemper.

 

Ping have the AWT 2.0 (stiff) shafts made by (I think) Nippon specifically for this club. 

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10 hours ago, NJgolfer11 said:


$350 after 4 rounds for trade in value is awful. I would advise putting them on ebay with pictures, stating you only played 4 rounds. If you paid lets say $800 for the set, I will be surprised if you get less than $500-$600 for them.

Yes, thank you, I totally agree...taking a quick cruise through Ebay it looks like I could get around $600 for the irons. I'm okay taking a little bit of a bath on the irons, but a $400 dollar bath is a little extreme! 

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3 hours ago, bnperrone said:

Another former 845 player here. They were handed down from my dad to my older brother then to me. They were my first adult-sized irons and I played them for quite a few years. I should still have the W4 wedge somewhere.

 

FWIW I went from the 845s to Titleist irons back when they made their first push for custom-fitting and never got comfortable with the Titleists. I sold them and bought Mizuno T-Zoid Pros in the early days of Ebay and played them until 2005 when I got new custom-fit into MP32/MP60 irons and played those until this season. This year I have bought and sold a couple things trying to find my next long-term set and, at the end of the day, I'm sticking with Mizuno. Given that I have fond memories of the 845ss and have loved all my Mizunos, I'd recommend checking them out. I know you tried the 919, but I'd also take a look at the MMC. It has the thin topline and players club appearance that it sounds like you're looking for, and it has a lot of forgiveness considering how responsive it is. Best of luck to you.

 

Last but not least, as others have stated, it sounds like you have a massive disconnect between old and new irons in terms of total weight and/or Swing Weight which, along with shaft length, could produce those toe misses. There's still hope that simple tweaks will keep you in the Pings if you're looking for your cheapest outcome.

Thanks for sharing your story. One of the things I've come to realize as I read all these replies (as well as hunt down other threads with similar themes) is how much of an (expensive) process finding the right "fit" can be. It's rough that it often comes down to pulling the trigger on a set, realizing it might not be the best, pivoting to a private sale so you can recoup some of your cost, and then lay down more cash on another go-round. Yikes. 

 

This gets a little off topic, but I had a class during my MBA studies that challenged students to come up with a new business that would address an unmet need in the market. One of the teams came up with the idea of rental clubs (for the whole season) that a player could lease much like a car, and then either turn in for a new set at the end of the seasons, or pull the trigger and buy. I'm sure there's a ton of incentive to keep the major club manufacturers from allowing this, but man wouldn't that be a great way to try new sets without taking a complete bath.  

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10 minutes ago, JD77 said:

Absolutely, and thanks again to everyone for your time in helping me sort this all out.

 

845s have the original Tommy Armour Tour Step (stiff) shafts. I'm not sure who these were manufactured by in 1988, but I believe later iterations of the 845s (early 2000s) it was TruTemper.

 

Ping have the AWT 2.0 (stiff) shafts made by (I think) Nippon specifically for this club. 

 

I don't know if this was actually true, but many suggested the Tour Step shaft was the tapered TTLite shaft.  Which played a little on the stiff side.

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver:  Cobra Fly-Z+, Xcaliber 7.5 TS, 44", King LTD, HZRDUS 75 6.5, 44.25"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Aldila Tour Blue 85 S, 42.5"; Stage 2 Tour, SK Fiber Tour Trac 100 X, 42.5"
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400

Irons grab bag:  Mizuno MP-37, DGS300; Golden Ram TW276, NV105; Golden Ram TW282, Precision 6.5; Ram TG-898, Super Peening Blue X; 1980 Golden Rams, Dynamic S; MacGregor Muirfield, Dynamic S; Wilson Staff 78 Tour Blades, Dynamic S
GW:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, DGS400
SW:  Ram Watson Scoring System 55*, DGX 7i shaft; Ram TG-898, DGS400; Ram TG-898, NV105 S; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS300; Ram 1982 Commemorative Nickel 58*, Dynamic S; Ram TW282, DGS; Ram TW276, DGS
LW:  Maltby Design 60* mid sole, DGS400; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, NV105 S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34.25"; Yes! Nicky, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional or 50 Elite, TP5

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11 hours ago, JosephNewton293 said:

Stick with what works, I'm still playing Titleist 735cm,s and I've tried all the latest stuff when it comes out. All they've done is turn modern clubs into shovels and jack the irons up so much you think you're better than you are. When in reality you're just hitting a 8 iron with a PW on the bottom. Don't get me wrong, there's some great clubs out there being produced but as far as the older clubs, not really a great improvement. The last thing I want is half a bag of wedges. And now in an attempt to fly them farther their foaming the hollow irons so you have a bag of hybrids. 

Haha...yes! This is exactly what I've been thinking lately. Just go back to the 845s. Maybe consider throwing a new shaft in them and/or upgrade the grip, but why change what was working! So true!!

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the weight of the AWT 2.0 shaft in your G410 is listed as 104 g at 7 iron length 

(with these shafts the weight of the shaft increases as one moves shorter, which is supposed to help with MOI balancing and to provide some extra launch in the longer irons (by using lighter weight in the long irons).

 

So, I'm sure someone has the weight range for your AWT2.0's (typically 2-3 g per club), so could be PW at 110 g and 4 iron at 98 grams)

 

 

Lead Tape lovingly applied - Driver through GW
TEE EXS +1* to 11.5* - Testing at 43.5" w/ Matrix 7M3 stiff untipped
TEE XCG7 Beta 4W 16.5* - Matrix 8M2 Stiff
TEE XCG7 Beta 22*H - 2020 Aldila Rogue Black 85H TS
TEE XCG7 Beta 25*H - Diamana Thump i465ct 4i shaft stiff 
Wishon 560MC's 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) at -1/2" length KBS Tour C-Taper Lite R
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56 and 60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
SC Futura X5r 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0
 

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17 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

I don't know if this was actually true, but many suggested the Tour Step shaft was the tapered TTLite shaft.  Which played a little on the stiff side.

 

That just might be right given what's shown in the golfworks chart for Tommy Armour clubs'

'

TT Lite XL was 128 g at 43" parallel tips (0.370), so a 7 iron at 37" with BBTG of 1.25 (guess) would be a shaft length of 35.75" so weight of 106 g (heavier for long irons, and lighter for short irons).

 

If the tips are tapers 0.355, then they are constant weight which for the stiffs is 118 g at the discrete lengths prior to butt trim.

 

https://www.golfworks.com/images/art/TommyArmour.pdf

 

image.png.ea310436d5c91455fbfd869b6b0f3bf2.png

 

 

Edited by geochitown

Lead Tape lovingly applied - Driver through GW
TEE EXS +1* to 11.5* - Testing at 43.5" w/ Matrix 7M3 stiff untipped
TEE XCG7 Beta 4W 16.5* - Matrix 8M2 Stiff
TEE XCG7 Beta 22*H - 2020 Aldila Rogue Black 85H TS
TEE XCG7 Beta 25*H - Diamana Thump i465ct 4i shaft stiff 
Wishon 560MC's 5-PW (27,31,35,39,43.5,48) at -1/2" length KBS Tour C-Taper Lite R
Vokey SM4 52-08F S200
Wishon HM wedges 56 and 60 Wishon Smooth steel Stiff
SC Futura X5r 33' flownecked by Bastain-cerakote sniper gray-silver dots-white flange sight line-SS Flatso 2.0
 

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1 hour ago, JD77 said:

Thanks for sharing your story. One of the things I've come to realize as I read all these replies (as well as hunt down other threads with similar themes) is how much of an (expensive) process finding the right "fit" can be. It's rough that it often comes down to pulling the trigger on a set, realizing it might not be the best, pivoting to a private sale so you can recoup some of your cost, and then lay down more cash on another go-round. Yikes. 

 

This gets a little off topic, but I had a class during my MBA studies that challenged students to come up with a new business that would address an unmet need in the market. One of the teams came up with the idea of rental clubs (for the whole season) that a player could lease much like a car, and then either turn in for a new set at the end of the seasons, or pull the trigger and buy. I'm sure there's a ton of incentive to keep the major club manufacturers from allowing this, but man wouldn't that be a great way to try new sets without taking a complete bath.  

Yeah, it's definitely tricky. I'm about to turn 40 and started with plastic clubs. Today there are countless options and limitless information. 25 years ago you might've looked at 4 drivers that each offered 3 lofts and regular, stiff, and maybe an X and senior flex. You picked one and played golf.

 

For all the club swaps I've made in the last 6 months, it was basically to probe different concepts. I did an iron fitting with a reputable fitter who I've known for years and years. Top choice was MP20 w / C-Taper Lite in X. Second choice was Project X LZ 6.0 for shafts. Both were a decent bit lighter than the Royal Precision Rifle Flighted shafts in my 2005 custom-fit set. I also dropped down a bit in length. But, I wanted to try things out a bit more IRL and the easiest way to do that was to buy and sell on the used market. I got the MP-18 MMC to try out multi-material technology in a player-oriented club. I found a set with factory-installed LZs so that kind of killed two birds with one stone. At the same time I picked up a set of Vokey wedges with a good bit higher bounce than I normally play in order to experiment with a different bounce profile. In the process I played around with some swingweight stuff on the wedges. In the end neither was ideal but in our strange times I actually made a little money selling both. I went down the research wormhole with MOI-matching and thought I wanted to get to a true blade and picked up Honma Rose Protos and meticulously researched the theoretical setup. I managed to find a set of LZ pulls in longer than standard length which allowed for the 3/8" length progression typical for MOI builds. In the end I think I went too heavy in SW overall and bit off more than I could chew with the true blade. I had to get out of those, and took in a set of Taylormade P760s on trade. That gave me the opportunity to check out a factory-blended set where the short irons are single-piece forged and the rest are foam-filled. I mixed my 2005 MP32 and 60 set, so there was natural appeal. I went away from the second choice LZs and had them shafted with my top-choice C-Taper Lite X and bent to my specs. While I could've happily played those, I have now come across a set of MP20 MMCs that are in the mail to me. Mizuno fixed everything I didn't love about the MP18 MMC when they updated them. Thinner top line, different sold width and profile, etc. I'd previously obtained another C-Taper Lite X shaft set for those. Assuming it all goes well I'll sell the P760s after the shafts are in. Along the way I've had to navigate the market to sell unwanted shafts, buy new shafts when appropriate, and have the money tied up.

 

I am very fortunate to have come across the right items, but it also works out well that I fit into C-Taper Lite X, which is kind of unusual so I can usually get a deal. I also have a shop and builder I trust to do all of this. With the wild used club market it really isn't costing me much to do all this trial. Sometimes this forum has been great for selling, and other times I got a lot of money on Ebay for stuff that just sat around here. It's absolutely not something that could scale up. That said, this should be the setup I stick with until they wear out. I justify a bit of a torrid affair period given my 15 year run on the last set!

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I believe the 845 tour step shafts were some reiteration of a TT shaft. I played those, 735s, AP2s, and countless variations of wedges, putters and drivers. In the end my handicap has fluttered between 4-6 regardless of the technology and fittings.

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Cobra F9 9* Evenflow White 6.0, F9 Tour Fairway 15* Evenflow White 6.0 

Adams Idea Pro Gold 18* 2H Matrix Ozik Altus 

Titleist 718 AP2 4-P DG AMT S300, Vokey SM7 50/8*, 54/10*, 58/10*, S200

Scotty Cameron Squareback No. 1

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Unfortunately I don't think you're going to get much satisfaction from your original fitter.  Trade in offer of $350 from the second fitter is in line with the PGA Value guide, they show $350-400 trade in value and $650-750 resale (condition mid to high).  I think resale is high, but with black dot you should be able to get at lease $600 for a 7 piece set.  You'll probably eat it on the Cleveland driver.  Be sure you are happy with the P790 if you go that way, I would have thought that coming from the Silver Scot you would gravitate to the more traditional Mizuno.

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On 10/15/2020 at 6:21 PM, JD77 said:

Haha...yes! This is exactly what I've been thinking lately. Just go back to the 845s. Maybe consider throwing a new shaft in them and/or upgrade the grip, but why change what was working! So true!!

Because lets be honest, the new irons are all the RAGE and specifically "fitted" in every way and you have everyone saying tweak this on the new ones, change shafts in the new ones, do this do that to the new ones. Are you kidding ?, just to get them to play the same as the old clubs ?  I've been down the same path. These are the next "holy grail"....... and a year later they get sold on the bay and I'm back playing the Titleist 735cm's. They play solid, go the distances I know and when things aren't working I know it's me. 

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