examines the financial realities of the average LPGA Tour player

[ChronicSlicer]

On 2/19/2021 at 1:38 AM, ALIF said:

Women’s golf is boring to me. I do not watch it. There I said it. Flame away. Many feel the same way, hence it doesn’t pay as well. Sorry, that’s the free market.

I'm genuinely curious as to why you find it boring? Is it lack of distance off the tee, lack of skill, poor announcers, pace of play..
 

[ALIF]

3 hours ago, ChronicSlicer said:

I'm genuinely curious as to why you find it boring? Is it lack of distance off the tee, lack of skill, poor announcers, pace of play..
 

Here’s the thing, I think they are amazingly talented individuals. I have two young daughters. I have them in golf lessons on and off depending what their interest is at the moment.. I hope they take golf as far as they want to. The thing about women’s golf is I don’t’ know many of the players, the game they playing isn’t exciting for me to watch, and it just seems slow when I try to view it. Again, nothing personal against the women’s game or the players etc. Just for me, it is not compelling viewing. Maybe when my daughters get older if they keep playing my mind will change.

[Argonne69]

1 hour ago, ALIF said:

Here’s the thing, I think they are amazingly talented individuals. I have two young daughters. I have them in golf lessons on and off depending what their interest is at the moment.. I hope they take golf as far as they want to. The thing about women’s golf is I don’t’ know many of the players, the game they playing isn’t exciting for me to watch, and it just seems slow when I try to view it. Again, nothing personal against the women’s game or the players etc. Just for me, it is not compelling viewing. Maybe when my daughters get older if they keep playing my mind will change.

 

Of course watching Daniel Berger putt is like watching paint dry. 

 

Slow? There are maddenly slow players on all tours. There are also players who play fast, e.g. Charley. 

 

Watch a few tournaments and you'll get to know the players. With limited cameras the coverage tends to focus on a handful of players each week.

 

The scoring average for the women isn't that different than the men. Not sure how the men can be exciting while the women are boring. Yeah, I guess the women play a more conservative game than the men, but they still get the ball in the hole. Imagine that. Probably explains why many of us like watching them. 

[ALIF]

3 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Of course watching Daniel Berger putt is like watching paint dry. 

 

Slow? There are maddenly slow players on all tours. There are also players who play fast, e.g. Charley. 

 

Watch a few tournaments and you'll get to know the players. With limited cameras the coverage tends to focus on a handful of players each week.

 

The scoring average for the women isn't that different than the men. Not sure how the men can be exciting while the women are boring. Yeah, I guess the women play a more conservative game than the men, but they still get the ball in the hole. Imagine that. Probably explains why many of us like watching them. 

Daniel Berger’s putting routine is beyond ridiculous for sure. I agree the women are really, really good.

[mallrat]

6 hours ago, ALIF said:

Here’s the thing, I think they are amazingly talented individuals. I have two young daughters. I have them in golf lessons on and off depending what their interest is at the moment.. I hope they take golf as far as they want to. The thing about women’s golf is I don’t’ know many of the players, the game they playing isn’t exciting for me to watch, and it just seems slow when I try to view it. Again, nothing personal against the women’s game or the players etc. Just for me, it is not compelling viewing. Maybe when my daughters get older if they keep playing my mind will change.

When you say slow, is it their play or the coverage?

 

IMO, one of the biggest downfalls is Golf Channels coverage. I think it makes it seem slow (as Argonne said, lack of cameras so lack of shots to show) and we basically get 1 or 2 groups and then another 2 or 3 greens. That is what feels slow to me. 

[BadgerLin]

9 hours ago, mallrat said:

When you say slow, is it their play or the coverage?

 

IMO, one of the biggest downfalls is Golf Channels coverage. I think it makes it seem slow (as Argonne said, lack of cameras so lack of shots to show) and we basically get 1 or 2 groups and then another 2 or 3 greens. That is what feels slow to me. 

i agree the coverage of LPGA events makes the play appear to be much slower (more boring) than the PGA.  Coverage of the women stays with one golfer while she lines up her shot, consults with her caddy, takes a few practice swings, OMG changes clubs and starts over.  On PGA coverage you pretty much only see the actual shot unless a player has put himself behind a tree deep in the underbrush- in which case it’s the opposite of boring to watch him try to figure it out.  Even with the more limited number of cameras you’d think LPGA coverage could more often switch to something happening, even if it meant showing more shots on tape rather than live.  

Edited February 22, 2021 by BadgerLin

[ALIF]

3 hours ago, BadgerLin said:

i agree the coverage of LPGA events makes the play appear to be much slower (more boring) than the PGA.  Coverage of the women stays with one golfer while she lines up her shot, consults with her caddy, takes a few practice swings, OMG changes clubs and starts over.  On PGA coverage you pretty much only see the actual shot unless a player has put himself behind a tree deep in the underbrush- in which case it’s the opposite of boring to watch him try to figure it out.  Even with the more limited number of cameras you’d think LPGA coverage could more often switch to something happening, even if it meant showing more shots on tape rather than live.  

This^^^^^^^

[North Texas]

3 hours ago, BadgerLin said:

i agree the coverage of LPGA events makes the play appear to be much slower (more boring) than the PGA.  Coverage of the women stays with one golfer while she lines up her shot, consults with her caddy, takes a few practice swings, OMG changes clubs and starts over.  On PGA coverage you pretty much only see the actual shot unless a player has put himself behind a tree deep in the underbrush- in which case it’s the opposite of boring to watch him try to figure it out.  Even with the more limited number of cameras you’d think LPGA coverage could more often switch to something happening, even if it meant showing more shots on tape rather than live.  

 

We must not be watching the same PGA coverage. I see absolutely no difference between the coverage of the men and women. 

 

This part of your post happens quite frequently on the men's coverage as well. 

Coverage of the women stays with one golfer while she lines up her shot, consults with her caddy, takes a few practice swings, OMG changes clubs and starts over.

[Argonne69]

1 hour ago, North Texas said:

 

We must not be watching the same PGA coverage. I see absolutely no difference between the coverage of the men and women. 

 

This part of your post happens quite frequently on the men's coverage as well. 

Coverage of the women stays with one golfer while she lines up her shot, consults with her caddy, takes a few practice swings, OMG changes clubs and starts over.

 

Depends on the network. I think CBS' coverage has deteriorated. This past weekend we got to see over two minutes of a player trying to determine where he should take his drop. Ugh. 

 

 

[Golf Dino]

9 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Depends on the network. I think CBS' coverage has deteriorated. This past weekend we got to see over two minutes of a player trying to determine where he should take his drop. Ugh. 

 

 

 

But if it was in a major and involved one of the contenders (such as Jordan Speith at the Open Championship) ... there is some good "drama" involved.  Mind, they did switch to another player/shot I believe before coming back to Jordan discussing with the Rules Official, taking his drops and having Michael give him the line.

 

 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Golf Dino

[Raving Shanker]

I have been watching quite a lot of PGA in the LPGA lull - Phoenix, Pebble, Genesis etc - and I MUCH prefer watching the women.

• LPGA has more interesting personalities.
• The PGA players swing too quick! I just don't "feel it", and I am a 60 yo guy who gets it out 240 m (265 yards) half a dozen times a month, but what they are doing is unimaginable.

That said, my view is a minority view, and the market rules. I just wish I could change it. I think the negative views of LPGA are rooted in a ignorance much of the time. I had a guy ranting to me the other day about the problems with women's golf, and it sounded like he hadn't watched it since the 1980's. I inquired further, and that was the case!

Edited February 25, 2021 by Raving Shanker
Can improve it

[Raving Shanker]

Did you folks in the Americas and Europe get any of the "Athena" tournament held in Australia last weekend? It was a strange variation to tournament golf where the girls went through various skill tests, with the top 8 going on a knockout stroke/match-play over 5 holes. It is obviously an attempt at a lively, engaging new format.

 

It was kind of bizarre, but held my attention, although I'd hope it never replaces standard 4-round stroke play. I'd be interested in the views of others. Perhaps it deserves its own thread, but I mention it here because it was televised in Australia, and had a winner-takes-all prize money of $30,000, which I thought to be a hefty sum.

 

The field was made of young Aussie up and comers, in the 10-20 ranks of Australian women. The winner was Kristalle Blum, who you all might get to see one day!

[JungleJimbo]

22 minutes ago, Raving Shanker said:

Did you folks in the Americas and Europe get any of the "Athena" tournament held in Australia last weekend? It was a strange variation to tournament golf where the girls went through various skill tests, with the top 8 going on a knockout stroke/match-play over 5 holes. It is obviously an attempt at a lively, engaging new format.

 

It was kind of bizarre, but held my attention, although I'd hope it never replaces standard 4-round stroke play. I'd be interested in the views of others. Perhaps it deserves its own thread, but I mention it here because it was televised in Australia, and had a winner-takes-all prize money of $30,000, which I thought to be a hefty sum.

 

The field was made of young Aussie up and comers, in the 10-20 ranks of Australian women. The winner was Kristalle Blum, who you all might get to see one day!

@Raving Shanker: Any video links pls? I googled and only found the following info (but couldn't seem to sign-up to the Kayo Sports VOD Streaming service for the freebies)

https://www.golf.org.au/wpga-announces-athena-event/

https://kayosports.com.au/event/sport!golf/event-the-athena-day-1!106350

https://kayosports.com.au/event/sport!golf/event-the-athena-final-day!106295



https://www.golf.org.au/blums-breakthrough-win-on-gold-coast/

https://theathena.wpga.org.au

Edited February 25, 2021 by JungleJimbo

[Raving Shanker]

Sorry, but I am not sure I can help you.

 

I watched it on Kayo, to which I am a subscriber. You need to be in Australia to get it.

[nikegal]

On 10/14/2020 at 9:25 PM, agolf1 said:

The way I see it, if you are OK with Lydia/Brooke/Nelly/etc making millions per year, Lebron/Tiger making $100 MM+ per year (or whatever it is), then you must believe in meritocracy, free markets, etc.  A natural and unavoidable by product of this is that some others will have a less comfortable financial path in the profession.

 

But it simply cannot be both.  Ask whether you think the top players should donate all or a substantial portion of the earnings to the "field?"  Or if the NFL should donate money to the NHL, etc.

 

I'm all for people being treated fairly.  But what is "unfair" vs. what is "just a different outcome" is not so easy to decipher and many people often get confused between the two.

The best comment in the thread!! Having Played on(and won on) the Futures Tour(now The Symetra Tour) in the mid-90's, when it was more of a group of regional Tour events across the country, started out in the early 80's as the "Tampa Bay Mini Tour," before changing to the Futures Tour in the early/mid 80's and then the LPGA really upped the game and took it to another few levels in the late 90's when they stepped in financially and administratively and it became an "official" LPGA developmental Tour. My best span was a T5, W, T3, 8, T4 and a runner-up and had I been totally on my own, lived like a 'normal' person, ie., staying in a $50-60 motel instead of with Pete's friends' and other friends and family friends, or all of the money saved by their generosity in packing me a lunch and then setting a place at their dinner table for me as I moved around the state and then up the coast, I would've lost money in 5 of those 6 weeks, with my lone victory, and check for $850, would've put me in the black for that week. I obviously could not afford the western "swing" which was in reality a set of tournaments set up totally independent of those in Fla. 

No one was there to get rich and our circumstances trials and tribulations were really no different from the guys as I am sure that you all have read of @isaacbm's experiences when he was shooting for the Tour. As far as what is 'fair,' 'competitive' or 'equitable,' well, that may be fine for fairy tales and works of fiction, however unfortunately in the real world, at least the real world that I've run in, it doesn't work that way that often. It's about eyeballs, influencers and dollar bills, regardless of the sport, sex or race. It really is that simple. If you ask me, that's pretty fair, "you make my brand money, I make your organization and/or you money."  As AG noted, it has absolutely zero to do with 'fairness' or 'unfairness' as those that followed myself and my peers from the day do not know what it is like to win an event and at the same time owe more for the week than their winner's check. While it was not unfair, it did svck, hahaha. Sometimes life svcks. You put your head down, fasten the blinders and drive through it, or you lose focus talk about how 'unfair' it is and join the rest of the world as a spectator/fan.  I consider myself very lucky to have Played some of the finest courses in this country, met Played with and against some of the finest LADIES in the game along with meeting and forging relationships and friendships that I have to this day. Trust me, there are A LOT worse ways to try to make your mark in this world, hahaha. My thoughts are that there is no one on Tour that should not be there and there is no one not on Tour who should be there. At the end of the day, the number(s) in the box tell the tale. You can't get much more fair than that. Great post AG😊Maddie

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by nikegal

[JungleJimbo]

On 2/28/2021 at 3:45 AM, nikegal said:

Having Played on(and won on) the Futures Tour(now The Symetra Tour) in the mid-90's, when it was more of a group of regional Tour events across the country, started out in the early 80's as the "Tampa Bay Mini Tour," before changing to the Futures Tour in the early/mid 80's and then the LPGA really upped the game and took it to another few levels in the late 90's when they stepped in financially and administratively and it became an "official" LPGA developmental Tour.

@nikegal: Thanks for sharing! Enjoyed your post Maddie, and it made me think of a recent crowdfunding campaign to help an aspiring young Malaysian gal (Genevieve Ling) attempt to reach the LPGA via the other developmental Tours on a shoe-string budget! (specifically the WAPT mini-tour, and then hopefully step up to Symetra/ Q-School... she already had her card/playing privileges on some Asian developmental Tours, but couldn't travel due to Covid restrictions).

 

For anyone interested, Here is the Link to Genevieve's GoGetFunding crowdfunding page / Youtube Channel (~23k subscribers, have helped raise ~$50+k funding for Gen's upcoming WAPT journey (April 2021 onwards), in approx 3 days).

 

https://gogetfunding.com/genevieveling/

Gen's "Thank You" note on Instagram = quite heartfelt & a good read! https://www.instagram.com/p/CLy45zDp7FZ/
 

 

Edited March 1, 2021 by JungleJimbo

[Golf Dino]

On 2/28/2021 at 11:47 PM, JungleJimbo said:

@nikegal: Thanks for sharing! Enjoyed your post Maddie, and it made me think of a recent crowdfunding campaign to help an aspiring young Malaysian gal (Genevieve Ling) attempt to reach the LPGA via the other developmental Tours on a shoe-string budget! (specifically the WAPT mini-tour, and then hopefully step up to Symetra/ Q-School... she already had her card/playing privileges on some Asian developmental Tours, but couldn't travel due to Covid restrictions).

 

For anyone interested, Here is the Link to Genevieve's GoGetFunding crowdfunding page / Youtube Channel (~23k subscribers, have helped raise ~$50+k funding for Gen's upcoming WAPT journey (April 2021 onwards), in approx 3 days).

 

https://gogetfunding.com/genevieveling/

Gen's "Thank You" note on Instagram = quite heartfelt & a good read! https://www.instagram.com/p/CLy45zDp7FZ/
 

 

 

She qualified for the Symetra Tour previously, but chose a different route at the time.  You can read more about her and her journey here: 

 

https://www.worldofgolf.org/post/lost-in-translation-golf-life-in-southeast-asia

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Golf Dino

[JungleJimbo]

 

 

[Retrop1]

On 2/25/2021 at 1:53 AM, Raving Shanker said:

• LPGA has more interesting personalities.

I agree totally, but I don't think the coverage does a very good job of highlighting them. The LPGA YouTube channel has great content where you can get to know some of the players better, but still nowhere near the volume of the men's game, so I think that drives lower ratings as much as anything. The Golf Channel has historically done way less on the women as far as non tournament coverage. I think the tournament coverage is pretty good, but if the audience doesn't know the stories behind the players, they won't watch as much. 

[uitar9]

On 2/27/2021 at 12:45 PM, nikegal said:

t's about eyeballs, influencers and dollar bills, regardless of the sport, sex or race. It really is that simple.

I play golf and I like to watch golf on the tube. LPGa golf is awesome. I'm a Canadian so always enjoy seeing Brooke play but they are great athletes. Surprisingly, my wife does not like watching LPGA and she's a golfer.  

 

Its unfortunate that Purses are not on par. But it is about eyeballs and $$. The big dollars are going to things like the Bachelor/ette, housewives of...alot of crazy reality shite. and it isn't just golf. Its hockey, soccer, basketball.

 

Its interesting how female humans will look at the shite, female forms that are not realistic, but not female humans who are excellent role models. Little girls are being led astray by the shite.

 

Ladies...take control...shake that marketing executive tree...Men are not going to do that for you.

 

 

[Oh Hi Carl]

My sister often complains about the differences in compensation for women and men athletes.  Then I ask her what her TV was on the past weekend and she says that she doesn't know because her husband and boys were watching.  I ask her to find out, and she reports that it was on NFL, NBA and men's soccer. I tell her that if she wants to do her part to rectify the difference in compensation, the least she can do is take control of the remote and make sure the TV is on women's sports.  That would never happen in her household or millions of others where the men in the house decide what sports are on their TV.    

Edited October 6, 2023 by Oh Hi Carl

[jimecherry]

5 hours ago, Oh Hi Carl said:

My sister often complains about the differences in compensation for women and men athletes.  Then I ask her what her TV was on the past weekend and she says that she doesn't know because her husband and boys were watching.  I ask her to find out, and she reports that it was on NFL, NBA and men's soccer. I tell her that if she wants to do her part to rectify the difference in compensation, the least she can do is take control of the remote and make sure the TV is on women's sports.  That would never happen in her household or millions of others where the men in the house decide what sports are on their TV.    

that number is shrinking cause people are moving away from the tv. which is why comcast raises prices to make up for the market shrinkage.