Anybody more or less permanently broken through plateau? New video included

[chipa]

2 hours ago, Golfbeat said:

Alright, here is a driver swing of about 4 years ago. In the mean time, I have worked on shortening and steepening the back swing by doing a lot of stick drills. However, for the rest my swing looks pretty much similar today I would guess.

 

If you use the "." and "," buttons on your key board you can watch it frame by frame forward and backwards respectively. In the first few frames of my take away you can see the little weird move to the left. I know that the ball position looks too much back. Usually, I have it farther forward. I currently do not have a down the line video.

 

Yes, I am a single digit hcp for the last 10 years with that swing!

 

Looking forward to your analysis and recommendations. ( apart from " You better quit").

 

 

 

 

 

After looking at this video and listening to how well you hit your other clubs the driver swing causes you to swing too flat that's why you've got that more rounded finish. I bet the other swings have you are a little more on your toes coming through impact with a higher finish because you are hitting down much more efficiently with the right side. 

 

Before you make any swing changes try putting a 3 wood shaft in your current driver but no longer than 43" max. You already have a good repeatable swing it's best to work with what you have.

[Mcgeeno]

1 hour ago, Golfbeat said:

 

Did he make you hit fades?

 

In a way yeah!

 

Lots of pause drills to fix the dip I had, recording my swing each session, practicing feeling 'over the top' to neutral the path, working on a better setup to avoid the big curvature. Pretty much worked on a range practice plan that I could slowly bring to the course. I owe him a lot as I found his approach and honesty refreshing. The way he teaches and explains just matched up for me.

 

The previous guy I saw was more feel based and less technical. I remember him saying "Oh just open up your stance and feel the fade" when I was sitting on the range slinging hooks around haha. That doesnt work for me. I needed drills and ideas to fix my swing flaw.

[RichieHunt]

From a swing perspective I don't think you have a bad swing, but your pivot is about what I would expect from a 5-10 handicap.  Some golfers can strike it better with that type of pivot, but they usually have been playing since they were young, played a lot of competitive golf and have very good hand-to-eye coordination.  Again, not a bad swing, but basically you're only going to get so much performance with that type of pivot.

 

The other thing that can help you get out of that plateau is understanding the analytics of the game and applying them to your game.  Usually the priorities are off, even for Tour players...over-emphasizing 7-iron thru Wedges, not enough time and money spent on the driver, laying up off the tee too often, over-emphasizing lag putting, taking too aggressive of lines off the tee, firing at too many flags (particularly on par-3's), etc.

 

 

 

 

RH

[Krt22]

5 minutes ago, RichieHunt said:

From a swing perspective I don't think you have a bad swing, but your pivot is about what I would expect from a 5-10 handicap.  Some golfers can strike it better with that type of pivot, but they usually have been playing since they were young, played a lot of competitive golf and have very good hand-to-eye coordination.  Again, not a bad swing, but basically you're only going to get so much performance with that type of pivot.

 

The other thing that can help you get out of that plateau is understanding the analytics of the game and applying them to your game.  Usually the priorities are off, even for Tour players...over-emphasizing 7-iron thru Wedges, not enough time and money spent on the driver, laying up off the tee too often, over-emphasizing lag putting, taking too aggressive of lines off the tee, firing at too many flags (particularly on par-3's), etc.

 

 

 

 

RH

How would you change the pivot? More centered with more extension of the spine at the top?

[Golfbeat]

3 minutes ago, RichieHunt said:

From a swing perspective I don't think you have a bad swing, but your pivot is about what I would expect from a 5-10 handicap.  Some golfers can strike it better with that type of pivot, but they usually have been playing since they were young, played a lot of competitive golf and have very good hand-to-eye coordination.  Again, not a bad swing, but basically you're only going to get so much performance with that type of pivot.

 

The other thing that can help you get out of that plateau is understanding the analytics of the game and applying them to your game.  Usually the priorities are off, even for Tour players...over-emphasizing 7-iron thru Wedges, not enough time and money spent on the driver, laying up off the tee too often, over-emphasizing lag putting, taking too aggressive of lines off the tee, firing at too many flags (particularly on par-3's), etc.

 

 

 

 

RH

 

Thanks, Richie. Interestingly, I only got a golf club in my hands for the first time at the age of 42. From you and others I get the idea that it would really make sense to work on the pivot.  

[Obee]

On 10/13/2020 at 10:50 AM, cardoustie said:

You need to do a few things before accepting "fate"

 

Have you worked on the weakest areas of your game?  Most players don't

 

If you can drive it in play then the real lowering of cap to the level you want is short game x 2.

 

 

Yep. However, for one reason or another, most people are woefully ignorant of the state of their own game relative to the games of players a couple levels better than they are (what they "aspire" to be).

 

If you want to be a scratch player whose game holds up in money games or tournaments, you can really have only one, true weakness. The rest of your game better be pretty darn solid with no real holes, or it will be exposed, and you scoring will suffer.

 

For instance, you can be a very short-knocker, like me, but the rest of your game better be real solid to be a +2.

 

You can be a scratch player if you have some putting yips and average 31 putts a round.

 

You can be scratch if you have quite a terrible bunker game

 

You can be scratch and spray driver all over the yard -- if you have a creative mind when in trouble and have a great short game and putting ability to save par

 

Bottom line, though: You need scratch or better at virtually every part of your game! And for every part of your game that is NOT scratch level, you need to make up for it with other parts that are professional level.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Obee
typos

[Obee]

4 hours ago, Golfbeat said:

 

This is exactly what my buddies are telling me! If you can hit a 3 wood like so well off the ground how come you cannot hit driver! They also say it must be mental. I still hope there is another explanation!

 

You have driver yips. You are not alone. My son had them. Brad Faxon had them. Henrik Stenson had/has them. They are curable, but not without significant attention/effort.

[MPStrat]

I was expecting to see an old asian man. Shocking.

[juststeve]

If you have been stuck on a plateau for a significant period of time you might ask yourself have I reached my personal maximum of performance.  Everyone has a maximum and is not usually as high as we which.

 

Ignoring golf for a moment, before I ever swung a golf club I was accomplished in football basketball and baseball.  Highly recruited out of high school. captained captained the basketball and baseball team at a division 1 school.  It never occurred to me that if I just practiced enough, or got the right coaching I would be fit for the NBA.  The physical difference between Oscar Robertson and I were to obvious to ignore.  I turned to golf because I need competition and I was not going to get it in any of my sports beyond the Ivy League Level.

 

In golf its very hard to know when you've maxed out.  If you think you are on a plateau it's certainly possible that you have maxed out, at least as long as you devote the time to the game that you are devoting now.  .  Hell, I say I'm bigger and stronger than some pro who could bet me without breaking a sweat. Why can't I play at their level?  It's because they have something no easy to define that I lack.  It seems to be a myth among golfers that with the right equipment and teacher there is no limit to how good I can be.  That where ever I am now is a plteu to be broken through.  Just not always the case, 

[RichieHunt]

3 hours ago, Krt22 said:

How would you change the pivot? More centered with more extension of the spine at the top?

 

It looks centered to me.  Some more extension would help with the transition pieces, but there's a lack of hip turn in the backswing.  I'd also reduce some of the foot flare at address.  Between the foot flare and the lower body pivot in to p4, he can't transition into the ground and rotate in the downswing.  He makes up for it by sliding and throwing.  Good enough to make quality contact and generate serviceable speed, but consistency can be a real issue.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

RH

[Krt22]

10 minutes ago, juststeve said:

If you have been stuck on a plateau for a significant period of time you might ask yourself have I reached my personal maximum of performance.  Everyone has a maximum and is not usually as high as we which.

 

Ignoring golf for a moment, before I ever swung a golf club I was accomplished in football basketball and baseball.  Highly recruited out of high school. captained captained the basketball and baseball team at a division 1 school.  It never occurred to me that if I just practiced enough, or got the right coaching I would be fit for the NBA.  The physical difference between Oscar Robertson and I were to obvious to ignore.  I turned to golf because I need competition and I was not going to get it in any of my sports beyond the Ivy League Level.

 

In golf its very hard to know when you've maxed out.  If you think you are on a plateau it's certainly possible that you have maxed out, at least as long as you devote the time to the game that you are devoting now.  .  Hell, I say I'm bigger and stronger than some pro who could bet me without breaking a sweat. Why can't I play at their level?  It's because they have something no easy to define that I lack.  It seems to be a myth among golfers that with the right equipment and teacher there is no limit to how good I can be.  That where ever I am now is a plteu to be broken through.  Just not always the case, 

I'd venture to say most amateur golfers never come close to their personal maximum performance and that theoretical max is higher than most think. If you are at a plateau, its for a reason, there is likely one big thing you need to over come, and you just have to accept that fixing that may not be an overnight thing and perhaps something you always need to work on. You also need to be diligent  enough to constantly record your swing and make sure you aren't falling back into old habits (which I do all the time). The two biggest hurdles are 1) the golfers themselves (mental approach, ego, wrong instructor, etc) and second is time/time management

[Nard_S]

I don't know the exact path of fix but the clearance of lead hip seems to be 70% of the issue for OP. I found Malaska's 'step back' approach for hip rotation to be of great benefit. It's done a bunch to simplify lower body action and clear the hip faster without getting all slippery & slidey like. 

[Golfbeat]

2 hours ago, Obee said:

 

You have driver yips. You are not alone. My son had them. Brad Faxon had them. Henrik Stenson had/has them. They are curable, but not without significant attention/effort.

 

You might be right. What cured it for your son?

[Golfbeat]

2 hours ago, Obee said:

 

Yep. However, for one reason or another, most people are woefully ignorant of the state of their own game relative to the games of players a couple levels better than they are (what they "aspire" to be).

 

If you want to be a scratch player whose game holds up in money games or tournaments, you can really have only one, true weakness. The rest of your game better be pretty darn solid with no real holes, or it will be exposed, and you scoring will suffer.

 

For instance, you can be a very short-knocker, like me, but the rest of your game better be real solid to be a +2.

 

You can be a scratch player if you have some putting yips and average 31 putts a round.

 

You can be scratch if you have quite a terrible bunker game

 

You can be scratch and spray driver all over the yard -- if you have a creative mind when in trouble and have a great short game and putting ability to save par

 

Bottom line, though: You need scratch or better at virtually every part of your game! And for every part of your game that is NOT scratch level, you need to make up for it with other parts that are professional level.

 

 

 

 

 

You are of course correct. However, if you seriously spray the driver on one of my courses you will either be in the water, OB or have a lost ball. You absolutely have to be in the fairway or in the proximity of the fairway. I can obviously hit a 3 wood off the tee, which I do most of the time, but I am fearful that, as a 60 year old, I will start to loose distance sooner than later. Being able to hit driver well would help my game a lot I think for the years to come. 

[Golfbeat]

54 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

I don't know the exact path of fix but the clearance of lead hip seems to be 70% of the issue for OP. I found Malaska's 'step back' approach for hip rotation to be of great benefit. It's done a bunch to simplify lower body action and clear the hip faster without getting all slippery & slidey like. 

 

Is this the video you are referring to?

 

 

[Nard_S]

2 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

 

Is this the video you are referring to?

 

 

Yeah that's it. Good stuff. This for me, unlocked better striking especially with the longer clubs.

[Hstead]

I feel like Ive made a break through.  It has only been a month, but the results and the ease of swinging with the new changes give me confidence that it is not a "honeymoon" or anything.  Chase cleared things up in my mind and now I am not trying to do things that I shouldn't have been to begin with.

 

My handicap has hovered between 2-5 depending on practice etc and now it will be plus side shortly.  Just returned from a Vegas golf trip and shot under par at Bali Hai and the Wynn.  Have three more rounds at par or better at my home club.  I feel like I am going to be plus 2 soon and I have been putting like a blind monkey.  If I get the putter back to where it was I should be going below par regularly.  And the best part is the swing is super easy, feels like the way I should be swinging anyway.  No forced or trying to hit any positions anymore.  Just swing it back and try to hit a draw or fade which ever one I picked pre shot.  

 

Chase fixed my last piece to the puzzle. 

[Golfbeat]

11 hours ago, Hstead said:

I feel like Ive made a break through.  It has only been a month, but the results and the ease of swinging with the new changes give me confidence that it is not a "honeymoon" or anything.  Chase cleared things up in my mind and now I am not trying to do things that I shouldn't have been to begin with.

 

My handicap has hovered between 2-5 depending on practice etc and now it will be plus side shortly.  Just returned from a Vegas golf trip and shot under par at Bali Hai and the Wynn.  Have three more rounds at par or better at my home club.  I feel like I am going to be plus 2 soon and I have been putting like a blind monkey.  If I get the putter back to where it was I should be going below par regularly.  And the best part is the swing is super easy, feels like the way I should be swinging anyway.  No forced or trying to hit any positions anymore.  Just swing it back and try to hit a draw or fade which ever one I picked pre shot.  

 

Chase fixed my last piece to the puzzle. 

 

That is awesome! Just read your thread about your your lesson with Chase again. I think that the left shoulder going high too quickly (or never going/staying down in the first place) is something many people struggle with. Dan recommended the stick drill to me to get that left shoulder down in the back swing to take care of my flat shoulder turn.  He said that this makes it subsequently easier to get/keep the left shoulder lower in the down swing as well. I am working on that now relentlessly. Now if I could get a good pivot as well I should make some progress.

Edited October 15, 2020 by Golfbeat

[Petethreeput]

@Golfbeat I am not dissimilar to you.  For about 10 years I hovered between 6-9 hdcp, and my obvious weakness was the driver.  Around 2005, I read the Short Game Bible and set about to knowing my distances.  I didn't follow it to a tee, I have 3 comfortable swings and their respective distances rather than the very rigid 730/9/1030/full he espouses, but I completely bought into the idea proximity breeds proximity for the next shot.

My driver still isn't great, but certainly serviceable, and for the past 10-15 years I have been a 2-4 handicap.

I agree with others saying to work on the weaknesses, but I would also look at really knowing your approach distances because those require no physical change.  I will never hit 100% of fairways, nor will I miraculously add 40 yards to my drive at my age, but as long as I can hit the ball close to its line with a reasonable expectation of distance, I can score.

Hopefully this helps.

P3P

[Obee]

On 10/14/2020 at 2:19 PM, Golfbeat said:

 

You might be right. What cured it for your son?

You'd have to ask him. He's on the forum here as Von_Oberhausen, I believe. 🙂

[GolfTurkey]

I’d imagine that a stats package like Arccos could be hugely beneficial in highlighting weaknesses that can be attacked with focussed practice. 

[Golfbeat]

I have committed to solely focus on Montes videos on NTC and use the bounce. I am first trying to shorten the back swing according the NTC. I am actually surprised how contorted and twisted the wrists feel when I do it exactly like Monte shows it.

 

I am obviously far from where I need to be but the first results are promising. This is todays driver swing. It went straights with a slight draw. Distance about 245. I think it is slightly better than the swing I posted earlier and I feel that the back swing can be further shortened up and perhaps the right arm could be a bit straighter. One last attempt to break the plateau!

 

Input more than welcome!

 

 

 

[MPStrat]