An ode to strong lofts.

[NoTalentLefty]

As I’ve grown older the to get irons have gaps it’s been hard not to go to the GI irons with stronger lofts. The Mavrik’s in the bag have a 5 degree gap between the 9 the PW and the AW from the PW. The 7 8 9 irons are separated by 4.5 degree. The 4 hybrids are separated by 3 degrees.
This is the first year in at least 4 that have at least  10 yards between irons.  
So thank you Mr. Club maker for innovative thinking into GI and SGI irons with stronger lofts and lower CGIs. First time I lowered my hcp by 3 by equipment. 
Take that you blade using snobs and suck on it!!! Lol!
 

Edited October 17, 2020 by NoTalentLefty

[scooterhd2]

I dont question that your clubs are performing well for you. Sounds like you are very happy with your purchase and your game, and that is a very good thing. But I'm not sure what about your experience is unique to the Mavrik or to GI irons. Your lofts are spaced very similar to mine, just numbered differently. 4 degree gapping is very common. 5 is quite common in short irons. Loft for loft, on a good swing, you'd hit my irons very similarly. 

 

MAVRIK		Z785
#7	27°	#6	28
#8	31.5°	#7	32
#9	36°	#8	36
PW	41°	#9	41
AW	46°	PW	46

Edited October 13, 2020 by scooterhd2

[MtlJeff]

The major difference is shaft length for the loft more than the loft itself. Lofts are just measured angles, they don't change over time. 27 degrees now will be 27 degrees in 30 years. 

 

People now are generally hitting the 6 irons of yesteryear with the shaft lengths of 7 irons of yesteryear. The number on the club "now" is whatever it is.

[cgasucks]

Me personally I prefer more conservative lofts found in today's player's CB and blades and  in irons from the 90s and 2000s.  

 

To each their own..

Edited October 13, 2020 by cgasucks

[lefty1978]

4 hours ago, cgasucks said:

Me personally I prefer more conservative lofts found in today's player's CB and blades and  in irons from the 90s and 2000s.  

 

To each their own..

I agree. I like my 7 iron to be 35° and my pw to be 47°. Titleist has it right.

[cgasucks]

21 minutes ago, lefty1978 said:

I agree. I like my 7 iron to be 35° and my pw to be 47°. Titleist has it right.

True.  If you want to go really traditional try having a set with Tiger's preferred lofts where the 3 iron is 22.5d that is 37" long , and the PW 49d that is 36".

[Bubbtubbs]

8 hours ago, scooterhd2 said:

I dont question that your clubs are performing well for you. Sounds like you are very happy with your purchase and your game, and that is a very good thing. But I'm not sure what about your experience is unique to the Mavrik or to GI irons. Your lofts are spaced very similar to mine, just numbered differently. 4 degree gapping is very common. 5 is quite common in short irons. Loft for loft, on a good swing, you'd hit my irons very similarly. 

 

MAVRIK		Z785
#7	27°	#6	28
#8	31.5°	#7	32
#9	36°	#8	36
PW	41°	#9	41
AW	46°	PW	46

That 7i is almost as strong as my 25.5° 4i.

[puttingmatt]

Pretty bold claim that having new irons dropped handicap by 3 points 

[GolfTurkey]

Ah Golfwrx..."My handicap dropped 3 strokes due to my stronger lofted irons".

 

Response: "if he drowns he's innocent, if he floats he's a witch"

[larryd3]

how about, my handicap dropped by X this year due to having properly or better fit irons.  

[clinkinfo]

From the t100s review on my golf spy:

 

ANOTHER WORD ABOUT LOFT JACKING

We’ve covered this many times before but, what the hell, I’ll bang my head into the wall again. Yes, everybody is jacking their lofts, but it’s time to start coming to terms with the idea that static loft (the number listed in the catalog) doesn’t tell you much of anything about performance. Even on a relative basis, it won’t tell you launch angle, spin rate, peak height, descent angle or whether you’ll be able to stop a ball on the green. All of that stuff is heavily dependent on additional factors like geometry and CG location.

 

That’s not to say all loft-jacked irons perform as advertised but it also doesn’t mean that none of them does.

 

When Titleist offers an 8.5° driver head, nobody shakes their fists and yells at a cloud about how they have a 10.5° driver in their bag and that they are sick of these sons-of-bitches loft-jacking the big dog. “Back in my day, son…”

Back in your day, drivers were made of wood and golf balls were filled with feathers. Things change.

 

Nobody complains about lower-lofted drivers because everyone understands that loft is an essential fitting variable. Guys, loft is an essential fitting variable for the rest of the bag, too. Loft isn’t the SAT; there’s more than one right answer.

Edited October 15, 2020 by clinkinfo

[jbandalo]

I too are not a fan of the jacked lofts.  It's OK when the lower loft also keeps a higher spin but typically, that's not the case.  Case in point.  Was playing the G410's which have the jacked lofts but hitting 7 irons 180 yards and rolling off the green is not good.  Went to the i210's which have a more standard loft and now my ball releases 3 feet from it's landing spot.  Same ball height, same trajectory so which would you prefer?  Sure my regular playing partners are all hitting their 7 irons while I hit my 6 iron, but their balls are off the back of the green while mine is in tight.

 

I don't think I could go back to jacked lofts now unless they can also keep the spin up as well.  It really was an eye opener for me.  

Edited October 16, 2020 by jbandalo

[LukeDonaldsTiger]

I’m not sure anymore what is wrong and what is right in this discussion. 
Stronger lofts might benefit players with slower swings, but a 43*-45* PW does open a gap to your 54*/56* wedge. So one less club at the top (4i might replace a hybrid or wood), but one more wedge.
 

What this does is, you now have to hit an iron where you might have used an easier to hit hybrid or wood before. 
Are people just going 5-PW or even 6-PW because of this?

 

I‘ll buy new irons and most likely will have them bent weak a degree. Standard PW is 45* but I want 46* at the least. Current PW is 47*. 
Do those 5* gaps I see in stronger lofted iron sets work for everyone? Has anyone dialed those gaps in and had them changed after buying?

 

I don’t see a real benefit, to be honest. 

[forrester_fire]

I mean, when your hybrids start at 6...just sayin'.

[madeintheshade]

3 hours ago, jbandalo said:

I too are not a fan of the jacked lofts.  It's OK when the lower loft also keeps a higher spin but typically, that's not the case.  Case in point.  Was playing the G410's which have the jacked lofts but hitting 7 irons 180 yards and rolling off the green is not good.  Went to the i210's which have a more standard loft and now my ball releases 3 feet from it's landing spot.  Same ball height, same trajectory so which would you prefer?  Sure my regular playing partners are all hitting their 7 irons while I het my 6 iron, but their balls are off the back of the green while mine is in tight.

 

I don't think I could go back to jacked lofts now unless they can also keep the spin up as well.  It really was an eye opener for me.  

I don’t know, my G400 irons stick the greens, just fine. 

[EDT501]

Come on guys, let’s be happy for the man. He found a set of clubs that works well for him and re-establishes proper gapping through the bag! That’s hugely important to playing good golf.

 

I personally prefer playing traditional lofts myself (50* PW), but that’s because it fits my swing and my game right now. Stronger lofted distance irons are an option that works well for some players and helps them play their best. It’s just another option available for everyone to find their best fit, no one is going to come force you to play them if they don’t work for you personally. You might fit better into a Ventus Black 7x, but that doesn’t that a Ventus Red 5r is a poor product; same with distance irons.

[clinkinfo]

Folks, some of you are missing the point of the mgs author I posted.

 

A ball will stop based on decent angle and spin, not JUST spin.  Newer iron designs tend to make the ball go higher because lower lofts tend to create higher ball speeds, and cg tweaks make the launch angle rise. But even if the launch angle is similar, the lower loft still goes higher because the ball left the club with a higher speed from the lower loft.  This is a new generation of irons, they are launching into a different "window" than we are used to as golfers. We used to think ideal 7 irons had 7000rpm of spin. We now understand a ball falling at 50* with 4500 rpm will stop just as fast.  Thank you launch monitors.

 

It's not wrong because it's different and It won't necessarily work for everyone, so you need to try the newer designs. But for those it does work for, its great, because it results in significant carry distances WITH just as much stopping power because of the decent angles. 

 

It's defintily time to move on past looking at the static loft spec sheets. We have to Look at ball fight.

 

[larryd3]

20 hours ago, jbandalo said:

I too are not a fan of the jacked lofts.  It's OK when the lower loft also keeps a higher spin but typically, that's not the case.  Case in point.  Was playing the G410's which have the jacked lofts but hitting 7 irons 180 yards and rolling off the green is not good.  Went to the i210's which have a more standard loft and now my ball releases 3 feet from it's landing spot.  Same ball height, same trajectory so which would you prefer?  Sure my regular playing partners are all hitting their 7 irons while I het my 6 iron, but their balls are off the back of the green while mine is in tight.

 

I don't think I could go back to jacked lofts now unless they can also keep the spin up as well.  It really was an eye opener for me.  

My T200s stop just fine.  Think it's about getting a good fitting and making sure the spin numbers and decent angles are reasonable before purchase.  Whatever works best for each person is what matters.  

Edited October 16, 2020 by larryd3

[jbandalo]

1 hour ago, larryd3 said:

My T200s stop just fine.  Think it's about getting a good fitting and making sure the spin numbers and decent angles are reasonable before purchase.  Whatever works best for each person is what matters.  

I agree that a good fit may help but not in my case.  At my fitting the 7 iron spun 6000 rpm's and for some fitters, that's close enough and nothing could get that spin higher until I went into the i210's.  Same shaft in both as well.  Sometimes, more loft is better and just goes to show how important to get real world results.  Unfortunately in Canada, you can't get fit, take the clubs out for a couple of rounds to make sure they work regardless of what the indoor fitting "shows" and return them if they don't work.  Real world and on course is where it happens.

[NoTalentLefty]

20 hours ago, forrester_fire said:

I mean, when your hybrids start at 6...just sayin'.

I got that idea from a Champion tour player , named Dana Quigley .

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/myshot_gd0611

[NoTalentLefty]

My post was done in a tongue-in-cheek . My real point was gapping your irons. If you can get gaps in traditional blades do so , if players distance cavity backs get you that go for it, if stronger lofts get you there that fine as well. I have no problem stopping these clubs on greens , I even get a spin back on most of the irons, and when the greens are rock hard can still get the ball to stop within 5 foot. 
 Never apologize for so called cheater lofts. Or dissuade others from trying them. It may be what THEY need.

[Justsomeguy]

Not everybody swings a 90mph 7iron.

Most of us can use the extra strength in the lofts in the shorter club length.

Same reason all shafts aren't X.

Strong lofts have made the game easier for seniors, juniors, and desk jockeys - and anyone else who can admit to needing a little more distance and offset (the horror).

We don't blink with face designs that redeem mishits on dispersion bc we can all admit to not being perfectly accurate.

But suggest that more distance helps, and it's anathema.

[1Mordrid1]

14 hours ago, clinkinfo said:

Folks, some of you are missing the point of the mgs author I posted.

 

A ball will stop based on decent angle and spin, not JUST spin.  Newer iron designs tend to make the ball go higher because lower lofts tend to create higher ball speeds, and cg tweaks make the launch angle rise. But even if the launch angle is similar, the lower loft still goes higher because the ball left the club with a higher speed from the lower loft.  This is a new generation of irons, they are launching into a different "window" than we are used to as golfers. We used to think ideal 7 irons had 7000rpm of spin. We now understand a ball falling at 50* with 4500 rpm will stop just as fast.  Thank you launch monitors.

 

It's not wrong because it's different and It won't necessarily work for everyone, so you need to try the newer designs. But for those it does work for, its great, because it results in significant carry distances WITH just as much stopping power because of the decent angles. 

 

It's defintily time to move on past looking at the static loft spec sheets. We have to Look at ball fight.

 

Nice post. There are so many factors that go into some of the better GI irons these days, if someone just looks at one number then they are missing the big picture.

 

 

[kiwihacker]

Enough already with the loft jacking. I'm just looking forward to the day I can buy a set with a 21° Pitching Wedge and 7 Gap Wedges until I get to the 54-56° sand wedge.  

[braincramp52]

I really don't understand why people get so jacked up (sorry) over the number on the bottom of a iron. IT'S JUST A NUMBER!

[bullie76]

16 minutes ago, braincramp52 said:

I really don't understand why people get so jacked up (sorry) over the number on the bottom of a iron. IT'S JUST A NUMBER!

And a cheaper way to upgrade is just use a sharpie and write 8 over the 7. 🙂

[NoTalentLefty]

On 10/13/2020 at 9:13 PM, lefty1978 said:

I agree. I like my 7 iron to be 35° and my pw to be 47°. Titleist has it right.

Why? Because it fits your game. In the 90s that PW would be considered jacked up. Mine was a 50 degree PW during that time period. And probably was above that in the 50 thru 70s period. As a matter of fact my friend bought a set with a 47 degree loft in the 90s and he was accused of playing jacked up lofts. The 90s was the first time I saw a 45 and 46 degree offerings in wedges . There was no such thing as a gap wedge. And I believe the 60 degree wedge was introduced around this time as well. 
  The game evolves. No one has it right or wrong, it’s all in our minds. The number on the clubs means nothing. 

[NRJyzr]

14 minutes ago, NoTalentLefty said:

 The number on the clubs means nothing. 

 

That's exactly it.  Loft determines distance.  Doesn't matter if your 36* iron has a 6, 7, or 8 on the sole, its still going to hit like a 36* iron for each player.

 

It *is* interesting how few players who say the number doesn't matter actually use something considered weaker, though.  LOL 

 

[NoTalentLefty]

13 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

That's exactly it.  Loft determines distance.  Doesn't matter if your 36* iron has a 6, 7, or 8 on the sole, its still going to hit like a 36* iron for each player.

 

It *is* interesting how few players who say the number doesn't matter actually use something considered weaker, though.  LOL 

 

I would also include the loft of the 7 iron at 27 degree has the height of the old seven iron even higher not the height of a 5 iron of old. Thanks to a lover CG in irons.

[clinkinfo]

30 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

That's exactly it.  Loft determines distance.  Doesn't matter if your 36* iron has a 6, 7, or 8 on the sole, its still going to hit like a 36* iron for each player.

 

It *is* interesting how few players who say the number doesn't matter actually use something considered weaker, though.  LOL 

 

 

No, launch (ball speed, launch angle, backspin, side spin) determines distance and stopping power. Loft is a variable that helps affect launch.

Edited October 17, 2020 by clinkinfo