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An ode to strong lofts.


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As I’ve grown older the to get irons have gaps it’s been hard not to go to the GI irons with stronger lofts. The Mavrik’s in the bag have a 5 degree gap between the 9 the PW and the AW from the PW. Th

Ah Golfwrx..."My handicap dropped 3 strokes due to my stronger lofted irons".   Response: "if he drowns he's innocent, if he floats he's a witch"

From the t100s review on my golf spy:   ANOTHER WORD ABOUT LOFT JACKING We’ve covered this many times before but, what the hell, I’ll bang my head into the wall again. Yes, everybody is

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I dont question that your clubs are performing well for you. Sounds like you are very happy with your purchase and your game, and that is a very good thing. But I'm not sure what about your experience is unique to the Mavrik or to GI irons. Your lofts are spaced very similar to mine, just numbered differently. 4 degree gapping is very common. 5 is quite common in short irons. Loft for loft, on a good swing, you'd hit my irons very similarly. 

 

MAVRIK   Z785  
#7 27° #6 28
#8 31.5° #7 32
#9 36° #8 36
PW 41° #9 41
AW 46° PW 46
Edited by scooterhd2
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PING G410+ 9* TPO 60S

Adams XTD 17* Fubuki 

Callaway Apex 20* AD DI 85s

Callaway Apex 23* OBAN Kiyoshi Purple

5-6 Srixon Z585 Modus 120S

7-PW Srixon Z785 Modus 120S

52 Ping Glide 3.0

56 and 60, TM Hi Toe

EVNROLL ER3

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Me personally I prefer more conservative lofts found in today's player's CB and blades and  in irons from the 90s and 2000s.  

 

To each their own..

Edited by cgasucks
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10.5 deg Titleist 905R with stock UST Proforce V2 Shaft
1999 Ben Hogan Apex Blades (3-PW) with stock Apex 4 Steel Shafts
Taylormade V-Steel 5W & 3W with Grafalloy Prolaunch Red shafts
Taylormade ATV wedges in 54 and 58 degrees with stock steel shafts
Rife Island Series Aruba Blade Putter

 

"Loft for loft, length for length, and shaft for shaft, the ball will go the same distance when hit on the sweet spot regardless how old the iron."

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4 hours ago, cgasucks said:

Me personally I prefer more conservative lofts found in today's player's CB and blades and  in irons from the 90s and 2000s.  

 

To each their own..

I agree. I like my 7 iron to be 35° and my pw to be 47°. Titleist has it right.

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Callaway B21 10.5° - Fuji Speeder 569 IV

Callaway B21 3W - Fuji Speeder 661 IV

Mizuno JPX 900 5W - Fuji Speeder 661 II

Mizuno MP32 (4-PW) - DG S300

Titleist Vokey SM5 52°/12° F Grind 

Titleist Vokey SM5 58°/11° K Grind 

Titleist Vokey SM5 62°/8° T Grind 

Titleist Scotty Cameron Select Newport 2

 

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21 minutes ago, lefty1978 said:

I agree. I like my 7 iron to be 35° and my pw to be 47°. Titleist has it right.

True.  If you want to go really traditional try having a set with Tiger's preferred lofts where the 3 iron is 22.5d that is 37" long , and the PW 49d that is 36".

10.5 deg Titleist 905R with stock UST Proforce V2 Shaft
1999 Ben Hogan Apex Blades (3-PW) with stock Apex 4 Steel Shafts
Taylormade V-Steel 5W & 3W with Grafalloy Prolaunch Red shafts
Taylormade ATV wedges in 54 and 58 degrees with stock steel shafts
Rife Island Series Aruba Blade Putter

 

"Loft for loft, length for length, and shaft for shaft, the ball will go the same distance when hit on the sweet spot regardless how old the iron."

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8 hours ago, scooterhd2 said:

I dont question that your clubs are performing well for you. Sounds like you are very happy with your purchase and your game, and that is a very good thing. But I'm not sure what about your experience is unique to the Mavrik or to GI irons. Your lofts are spaced very similar to mine, just numbered differently. 4 degree gapping is very common. 5 is quite common in short irons. Loft for loft, on a good swing, you'd hit my irons very similarly. 

 

MAVRIK   Z785  
#7 27° #6 28
#8 31.5° #7 32
#9 36° #8 36
PW 41° #9 41
AW 46° PW 46

That 7i is almost as strong as my 25.5° 4i.

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I too are not a fan of the jacked lofts.  It's OK when the lower loft also keeps a higher spin but typically, that's not the case.  Case in point.  Was playing the G410's which have the jacked lofts but hitting 7 irons 180 yards and rolling off the green is not good.  Went to the i210's which have a more standard loft and now my ball releases 3 feet from it's landing spot.  Same ball height, same trajectory so which would you prefer?  Sure my regular playing partners are all hitting their 7 irons while I hit my 6 iron, but their balls are off the back of the green while mine is in tight.

 

I don't think I could go back to jacked lofts now unless they can also keep the spin up as well.  It really was an eye opener for me.  

Edited by jbandalo

DRIVER - PING G410 LST

FAIRWAY WOODS - PING G410 3W

HYBRIDS - PING G410 3H

IRONS - PING i210 4-PW

WEDGES - PING GLIDE 3.0 50, 54 & 58

PUTTER - SCOTTY CAMERON NEWPORT 2

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I’m not sure anymore what is wrong and what is right in this discussion. 
Stronger lofts might benefit players with slower swings, but a 43*-45* PW does open a gap to your 54*/56* wedge. So one less club at the top (4i might replace a hybrid or wood), but one more wedge.
 

What this does is, you now have to hit an iron where you might have used an easier to hit hybrid or wood before. 
Are people just going 5-PW or even 6-PW because of this?

 

I‘ll buy new irons and most likely will have them bent weak a degree. Standard PW is 45* but I want 46* at the least. Current PW is 47*. 
Do those 5* gaps I see in stronger lofted iron sets work for everyone? Has anyone dialed those gaps in and had them changed after buying?

 

I don’t see a real benefit, to be honest. 

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3 hours ago, jbandalo said:

I too are not a fan of the jacked lofts.  It's OK when the lower loft also keeps a higher spin but typically, that's not the case.  Case in point.  Was playing the G410's which have the jacked lofts but hitting 7 irons 180 yards and rolling off the green is not good.  Went to the i210's which have a more standard loft and now my ball releases 3 feet from it's landing spot.  Same ball height, same trajectory so which would you prefer?  Sure my regular playing partners are all hitting their 7 irons while I het my 6 iron, but their balls are off the back of the green while mine is in tight.

 

I don't think I could go back to jacked lofts now unless they can also keep the spin up as well.  It really was an eye opener for me.  

I don’t know, my G400 irons stick the greens, just fine. 

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Come on guys, let’s be happy for the man. He found a set of clubs that works well for him and re-establishes proper gapping through the bag! That’s hugely important to playing good golf.

 

I personally prefer playing traditional lofts myself (50* PW), but that’s because it fits my swing and my game right now. Stronger lofted distance irons are an option that works well for some players and helps them play their best. It’s just another option available for everyone to find their best fit, no one is going to come force you to play them if they don’t work for you personally. You might fit better into a Ventus Black 7x, but that doesn’t that a Ventus Red 5r is a poor product; same with distance irons.

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Mizuno MP Titanium 15* - Fujikura Rombax 7z08

Mizuno MP Titanium 18* - Diamana BF | Mizuno MPH4 2 iron - DG

Mizuno MP68 3-PW - KBS Tour

Vokey SM7 55*M & 60*L - KBS Tour

Scotty Cameron Newport 2 Mid Slant

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20 hours ago, jbandalo said:

I too are not a fan of the jacked lofts.  It's OK when the lower loft also keeps a higher spin but typically, that's not the case.  Case in point.  Was playing the G410's which have the jacked lofts but hitting 7 irons 180 yards and rolling off the green is not good.  Went to the i210's which have a more standard loft and now my ball releases 3 feet from it's landing spot.  Same ball height, same trajectory so which would you prefer?  Sure my regular playing partners are all hitting their 7 irons while I het my 6 iron, but their balls are off the back of the green while mine is in tight.

 

I don't think I could go back to jacked lofts now unless they can also keep the spin up as well.  It really was an eye opener for me.  

My T200s stop just fine.  Think it's about getting a good fitting and making sure the spin numbers and decent angles are reasonable before purchase.  Whatever works best for each person is what matters.  

Edited by larryd3
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TM M4 
Epic 15*
Sub70 3 hybrid
Sub70 4 hybrid
Sub70 5 hybrid
Titleist T200 6-GW
54* SM8
58* SM8
PXG Operator H

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1 hour ago, larryd3 said:

My T200s stop just fine.  Think it's about getting a good fitting and making sure the spin numbers and decent angles are reasonable before purchase.  Whatever works best for each person is what matters.  

I agree that a good fit may help but not in my case.  At my fitting the 7 iron spun 6000 rpm's and for some fitters, that's close enough and nothing could get that spin higher until I went into the i210's.  Same shaft in both as well.  Sometimes, more loft is better and just goes to show how important to get real world results.  Unfortunately in Canada, you can't get fit, take the clubs out for a couple of rounds to make sure they work regardless of what the indoor fitting "shows" and return them if they don't work.  Real world and on course is where it happens.

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DRIVER - PING G410 LST

FAIRWAY WOODS - PING G410 3W

HYBRIDS - PING G410 3H

IRONS - PING i210 4-PW

WEDGES - PING GLIDE 3.0 50, 54 & 58

PUTTER - SCOTTY CAMERON NEWPORT 2

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20 hours ago, forrester_fire said:

I mean, when your hybrids start at 6...just sayin'.

I got that idea from a Champion tour player , named Dana Quigley .

 

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/myshot_gd0611

Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

Driver Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 set to 9.5
3 Wood Epic Flash set to 16 degrees
3-5 Hybrids Epic Flash 18 20 23 degrees
6 hybrid Big Bertha 26 degree 
7-AW Callaway Mavrik Irons 
50 degree GW Vokey SM7
56 degree SW Vokey SM7
Odyssey White Hot V-Line Fang

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My post was done in a tongue-in-cheek . My real point was gapping your irons. If you can get gaps in traditional blades do so , if players distance cavity backs get you that go for it, if stronger lofts get you there that fine as well. I have no problem stopping these clubs on greens , I even get a spin back on most of the irons, and when the greens are rock hard can still get the ball to stop within 5 foot. 
 Never apologize for so called cheater lofts. Or dissuade others from trying them. It may be what THEY need.

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Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

Driver Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 set to 9.5
3 Wood Epic Flash set to 16 degrees
3-5 Hybrids Epic Flash 18 20 23 degrees
6 hybrid Big Bertha 26 degree 
7-AW Callaway Mavrik Irons 
50 degree GW Vokey SM7
56 degree SW Vokey SM7
Odyssey White Hot V-Line Fang

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Not everybody swings a 90mph 7iron.

Most of us can use the extra strength in the lofts in the shorter club length.

Same reason all shafts aren't X.

Strong lofts have made the game easier for seniors, juniors, and desk jockeys - and anyone else who can admit to needing a little more distance and offset (the horror).

We don't blink with face designs that redeem mishits on dispersion bc we can all admit to not being perfectly accurate.

But suggest that more distance helps, and it's anathema.

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14 hours ago, clinkinfo said:

Folks, some of you are missing the point of the mgs author I posted.

 

A ball will stop based on decent angle and spin, not JUST spin.  Newer iron designs tend to make the ball go higher because lower lofts tend to create higher ball speeds, and cg tweaks make the launch angle rise. But even if the launch angle is similar, the lower loft still goes higher because the ball left the club with a higher speed from the lower loft.  This is a new generation of irons, they are launching into a different "window" than we are used to as golfers. We used to think ideal 7 irons had 7000rpm of spin. We now understand a ball falling at 50* with 4500 rpm will stop just as fast.  Thank you launch monitors.

 

It's not wrong because it's different and It won't necessarily work for everyone, so you need to try the newer designs. But for those it does work for, its great, because it results in significant carry distances WITH just as much stopping power because of the decent angles. 

 

It's defintily time to move on past looking at the static loft spec sheets. We have to Look at ball fight.

 

Nice post. There are so many factors that go into some of the better GI irons these days, if someone just looks at one number then they are missing the big picture.

 

 

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Enough already with the loft jacking. I'm just looking forward to the day I can buy a set with a 21° Pitching Wedge and 7 Gap Wedges until I get to the 54-56° sand wedge.  

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Cobra King F9  Driver 10.5° Atmos Blue 6 stiff
17° Callaway X Hot 4 wood
20.5°& 23° Cleveland DST Launcher hybrids
Taylormade R7 TP 4-PW irons
Cleveland RTX 2 52°/10°, RTX 3 58°/9°
Ping Anser Sigma 2 putter

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16 minutes ago, braincramp52 said:

I really don't understand why people get so jacked up (sorry) over the number on the bottom of a iron. IT'S JUST A NUMBER!

And a cheaper way to upgrade is just use a sharpie and write 8 over the 7. 🙂

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My senior bag.......

Callaway Rogue 9.0* driver reg
Callaway Rogue 3 & 5 fw woods reg
Callaway Rogue X 4,5 hybrids reg
Callaway Rogue X 6-Aw irons
Ping Glide 52* & 58*
Ping CrazE putter
Datrex 15 way IDS cart bag - black

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On 10/13/2020 at 9:13 PM, lefty1978 said:

I agree. I like my 7 iron to be 35° and my pw to be 47°. Titleist has it right.

Why? Because it fits your game. In the 90s that PW would be considered jacked up. Mine was a 50 degree PW during that time period. And probably was above that in the 50 thru 70s period. As a matter of fact my friend bought a set with a 47 degree loft in the 90s and he was accused of playing jacked up lofts. The 90s was the first time I saw a 45 and 46 degree offerings in wedges . There was no such thing as a gap wedge. And I believe the 60 degree wedge was introduced around this time as well. 
  The game evolves. No one has it right or wrong, it’s all in our minds. The number on the clubs means nothing. 

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Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

Driver Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 set to 9.5
3 Wood Epic Flash set to 16 degrees
3-5 Hybrids Epic Flash 18 20 23 degrees
6 hybrid Big Bertha 26 degree 
7-AW Callaway Mavrik Irons 
50 degree GW Vokey SM7
56 degree SW Vokey SM7
Odyssey White Hot V-Line Fang

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14 minutes ago, NoTalentLefty said:

 The number on the clubs means nothing. 

 

That's exactly it.  Loft determines distance.  Doesn't matter if your 36* iron has a 6, 7, or 8 on the sole, its still going to hit like a 36* iron for each player.

 

It *is* interesting how few players who say the number doesn't matter actually use something considered weaker, though.  LOL 

 

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver:  Cobra Fly-Z+, Xcaliber 7.5 TS, 44", King LTD, HZRDUS 75 6.5, 44.25"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Aldila Tour Blue 85 S, 42.5"; Stage 2 Tour, SK Fiber Tour Trac 100 X, 42.5"
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400

Irons grab bag:  Mizuno MP-37, DGS300; Golden Ram TW276, NV105; Golden Ram TW282, Precision 6.5; Ram TG-898, Super Peening Blue X; 1980 Golden Rams, Dynamic S; MacGregor Muirfield, Dynamic S; Wilson Staff 78 Tour Blades, Dynamic S
GW:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, DGS400
SW:  Ram Watson Scoring System 55*, DGX 7i shaft; Ram TG-898, DGS400; Ram TG-898, NV105 S; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS300; Ram 1982 Commemorative Nickel 58*, Dynamic S; Ram TW282, DGS; Ram TW276, DGS
LW:  Maltby Design 60* mid sole, DGS400; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, NV105 S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34.25"; Yes! Nicky, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional or 50 Elite, TP5

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13 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

That's exactly it.  Loft determines distance.  Doesn't matter if your 36* iron has a 6, 7, or 8 on the sole, its still going to hit like a 36* iron for each player.

 

It *is* interesting how few players who say the number doesn't matter actually use something considered weaker, though.  LOL 

 

I would also include the loft of the 7 iron at 27 degree has the height of the old seven iron even higher not the height of a 5 iron of old. Thanks to a lover CG in irons.

Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

Driver Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 set to 9.5
3 Wood Epic Flash set to 16 degrees
3-5 Hybrids Epic Flash 18 20 23 degrees
6 hybrid Big Bertha 26 degree 
7-AW Callaway Mavrik Irons 
50 degree GW Vokey SM7
56 degree SW Vokey SM7
Odyssey White Hot V-Line Fang

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30 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

That's exactly it.  Loft determines distance.  Doesn't matter if your 36* iron has a 6, 7, or 8 on the sole, its still going to hit like a 36* iron for each player.

 

It *is* interesting how few players who say the number doesn't matter actually use something considered weaker, though.  LOL 

 

 

No, launch (ball speed, launch angle, backspin, side spin) determines distance and stopping power. Loft is a variable that helps affect launch.

Edited by clinkinfo
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