Interesting choice of euro venue this week..

[milesgiles]

Fairmont hotel St Andrews (next to the Castle course..). Sure there are two courses there, both literally about £50 and very mixed reviews over the years..

 

ill admit it looks fine at least on the telly.. but there has to be a dozen far better renowned courses in East Fife alone! Not least the Castle course which id have loved to see them take on and I’m sure the players would have preferred. Any insight? 

Edited October 15, 2020 by milesgiles

[Divot License]

I suspect like anything tour course related there is an element of the club wishing to host an event. Although there are better courses in the area they may not be interested in dealing with all the elements involved with hosting a tour event. 

[milesgiles]

 

Its bizarre, the hotel presumably hasn’t made any money this year, I can’t believe there’s much pressure on tee times on any of the St Andrews courses. I know it would have been signed months ago but..

 

sidenote, it look so very acceptable I would have played it last year but some reviews put me off..

[pendodave]

I suspect it is just a hotel on site thing - it's the common thread with most of these euro events. I believe that the euro tour are much more focused on maintaining the bubble than over in the US (I think they have to be to convince the authorities to let them play), and this simplifies the logistics. 

[milesgiles]

1 hour ago, pendodave said:

I suspect it is just a hotel on site thing - it's the common thread with most of these euro events. I believe that the euro tour are much more focused on maintaining the bubble than over in the US (I think they have to be to convince the authorities to let them play), and this simplifies the logistics. 

 

Good point, but you can actually see the Castle course in the background! Not to mention I’d be staggered if the Old course hotel has any guests at all 

[Hawkeye77]

It is about the hotel and proximity to the course and isolation from the rest of the area as best they can.  Westwood mentioned that players can't go into St. Andrews, etc. so COVID precautions drove this decision.

[MattyO1984]

Hotel on site trumps everything when it comes to the Euro Tour bubble and the sheer amount of space that they have at the Fairmont is incredible. In addition, at the Fairmont everything that they need for organising is right there and dealt with by one party. If the Tour were to commander the Old Course Hotel, they would need to deal with the the owners of the hotel and then the Links Trust for the Courses.

 

Basing it on the hotel and the facilities, I would take the Fairmont over the Old Course every day as well.

 

 

[golfortennis]

Yes, Radar was also mentioning a fish and chips place he couldn't go to.  The hotel on site is the primary consideration. 

 

We didn't have enough time, but having played the Jubilee, new and the Old, kind of regretting not playing these courses.  AS they said on the broadcast, it's the type of course that can punish, but you can score as well.  It's fun to play, not something that beats you up from the first tee to 18th hole.

[KennyP]

Chosen for the same reason as Celtic Manor x2, The Belfry, Hanbury Manor, Close House etc. Tour wants everybody (players, caddies, officials, TV people) all enclosed in as tight a bubble as possible and to keep the public out. If you held it on The Old Course, some people would line the streets to watch.

[garethw]

8 hours ago, Bluefan75 said:

Yes, Radar was also mentioning a fish and chips place he couldn't go to.  The hotel on site is the primary consideration. 

 

We didn't have enough time, but having played the Jubilee, new and the Old, kind of regretting not playing these courses.  AS they said on the broadcast, it's the type of course that can punish, but you can score as well.  It's fun to play, not something that beats you up from the first tee to 18th hole.

Thats in a small fishing village called Anstruther, not far from St Andrews. Sells lovely fish and chips.

 

[milesgiles]

They could literally have just jumped over the wall to play the castle, which is magnificent..

 

i understand the hotel probably insisted on it being played on its own on its own course but they could have been bought off surely?

[mahonie]

Looks like a great course and a great tournament overall. Euro Tour is doing a fantastic job.

[hacker101]

I played both of the Fairmont courses a couple years ago on a Scotland trip with the boys. The condition was very good, although they did not play like a traditional links course. The Torrence was the more difficult of the two, but the Kittocks (sp) was more picturesque. It was very inexpensive for what you got. We also were able to ride in carts, which was a nice change of pace from walking everyday. It just seemed like they just didn’t have the mystique of a traditional Scottish venue yet. Too new. The hotel did look very swanky.

[cardoustie]

I played the course in 2012, it was fine

[MattyO1984]

On 10/17/2020 at 1:59 PM, milesgiles said:

They could literally have just jumped over the wall to play the castle, which is magnificent..

 

i understand the hotel probably insisted on it being played on its own on its own course but they could have been bought off surely?

 

Buying something off requires money. The European Tour is not flush with cash. It was only the week before the event that they actually got a sponsor for the event.

[milesgiles]

1 hour ago, MattyO1984 said:

 

Buying something off requires money. The European Tour is not flush with cash. It was only the week before the event that they actually got a sponsor for the event.

 

Absolutely, but what would the price have been.. the hotel must be on its knees and desperate for cash. A few British players chose to play an extremely minor US event instead, seems a false economy as they can’t have been overly enthused with the Scottish venue 

Edited October 19, 2020 by milesgiles

[elwhippy]

Decent courses. Both in good condition when I played them. Good PR for the hotel although the Visit Scotland sign was a bit of a joke as they as knocking back English bookings. 

[MattyO1984]

17 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

Absolutely, but what would the price have been.. the hotel must be on its knees and desperate for cash. A few British players chose to play an extremely minor US event instead, seems a false economy as they can’t have been overly enthused with the Scottish venue 

 

The CJ Cup might be pretty new on the scene but the money on offer is big and with no cut, it’s a guaranteed pay day in the sun as opposed to putting 3 or 4 layers on with no guarantee. You can be sure that the guys that made there way over Stateside also had an eye on the Masters as well. Better to prepare playing Vegas than on the side of a Scottish seaside resort.

[mahonie]

On 10/19/2020 at 8:13 PM, elwhippy said:

Decent courses. Both in good condition when I played them. Good PR for the hotel although the Visit Scotland sign was a bit of a joke as they as knocking back English bookings. 

I could get a room this Saturday and a round of golf on the Torrance for £230 no problem 🤔

[Gem]

On 10/17/2020 at 1:59 PM, milesgiles said:

They could literally have just jumped over the wall to play the castle, which is magnificent..

 

i understand the hotel probably insisted on it being played on its own on its own course but they could have been bought off surely?

Played the both StAndrews Bay courses often (prefer the Torrance) and I do enjoy them. Certainly not the best in the area but well worth a visit. 

As for the Castle Course, I thought it was dreadful and probably wouldn't play it again for free. 

[golfortennis]

13 hours ago, Gem said:

Played the both StAndrews Bay courses often (prefer the Torrance) and I do enjoy them. Certainly not the best in the area but well worth a visit. 

As for the Castle Course, I thought it was dreadful and probably wouldn't play it again for free. 

 

The Castle course may just be the most polarizing course on the planet.

[imakaveli]

Played the Torrence in 2013 and stayed at the hotel. Liked the course and loved the clubhouse during sunset. I would recomment it!

[jubilee_links]

The St Andrews tournament was a last minute replacement when the Dunhill was cancelled - rightly said above that the onsite accommodation meant it was tight bubble and the hotel has adequate space for all that goes along with the tournament.

 

The Torrance is a really good course and unlike the St Andrews links courses (bar the Old) has modern competition tees in place  - so easy to make it play over 7200 yards. Ive played it a coupe of times and the comp tees bear no resemblance to what tourists play. Torrance also hosts more competitions like the britsh seniors etc.

Not sure why there are noses being turned up at being able to play a good course for £50 - its a great deal and great place to visit.

 

Regarding St Andrews links courses - if they played a comp on the any of the main courses they would have to shut them all bar the Castle due to logistics  - and no-one is playing a tour comp on the Castle course.

Without foreign tourists everyone thought there would be lots of free tee times in St Andrews but the opposite is apparently true - lots more Scottish golfers are visiting so its actually been harder at times this year to get a visitor tee time then usual.

[milesgiles]

On 10/27/2020 at 11:59 PM, Gem said:

Played the both StAndrews Bay courses often (prefer the Torrance) and I do enjoy them. Certainly not the best in the area but well worth a visit. 

As for the Castle Course, I thought it was dreadful and probably wouldn't play it again for free. 

 

It was modified a few years ago. Without question it is now top 100 uk 

[hammersia]

22 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

It was modified a few years ago. Without question it is now top 100 uk 

No, Torrance course was modified as it was botched originally with poor design and poor drainage. Castle course hasn’t been modified, it’s great, I had a great time thrashing my brother around it a couple of years ago. 

[pendodave]

Hmmm. Iirc the castle was tweaked, particularly to make the greens a bit less .... interesting...

[milesgiles]

40 minutes ago, hammersia said:

No, Torrance course was modified as it was botched originally with poor design and poor drainage. Castle course hasn’t been modified, it’s great, I had a great time thrashing my brother around it a couple of years ago. 

 

I think it’s reasonably well known the greens were made less severe after a lot of complaints, as several others have noted.

reasonably well known except by you apparently