When did courses become "Modern"?

[Tremendous-Slouch]

It's been slow at my dental office the last few days, and I've gone down a rabbit hole of Shell's Wonderful World of Golf on YouTube. In particular, the match of Snead vs Nicklaus at Pebble Beach in 1963 caught my eye. This is because of the condition of the course. It still looked beautiful, but the greens (and the fairways) were noticeably more hairy than the greens of today. Much more wrist was used in their putting strokes, but there also wasn't much roll out in the fairways due to the height of cut. I know that improvements in technology/machinery and in agri practices on the turf allow for the tight well-manicured course of today, but I know there were powered reel mowers and sprinkler systems available then. I was interesting to see the contrast of the green fairways and greens, next to the rough and wild areas that truly reflect the natural landscape around Pebble Beach, rather than the lush, dense, green fields of rough and wild areas that are seen on the modern version of Pebble Beach.

 

I'm curious to hear from those with the firsthand experience, about when did golf courses become the modern, manicured, ultra-fast greens (and fairways for that matter) that we commonly associate with nice/professional golf courses? Or at least when did the change start?

 

 

 

For those interested:  

 

[Bigarch]

When golf popped up on color tv and the race to make your course green and lush began!

 

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

11 hours ago, Bigarch said:

When golf popped up on color tv and the race to make your course green and lush began!

 

 

It's an interesting question for me as I'd never really considered it, and that's an interesting answer. In the UK, certainly when I was growing up, I think think courses were left alone more, most likely due to maintenance costs. When watching US competitions like the US Open and PGA, and of course The Masters, the lushness of the courses really stood out, especially in contrast to the parched fairways and baked greens we'd see so often at the British Open.

I always thought the US courses looked so amazing and the links courses so poor in comparison, but of course that's the wrong way to look at a golf course, as what's really important is how a course plays and tests the golfer.

So, I don't know if your answer is 100% right, but I bet that's a big part of it.

[Celebros]

In the US, I would say it began in the 70s and then really took off in the 80s.

 

It took until roughly the 70s before mower technology advanced to the point that most courses could begin cutting the greens lower in a reasonably efficient manner (elite clubs were able to do it prior with great effort/expense).  Chemical advances which really took off after WWII and ever better varieties of turfgrass were also essential.  Courses were also moving to double row irrigation systems.  Then add a golf construction boom starting in the 80s in which thousands of new courses were built from the get-go to support these types of greens/speeds/turf conditions and there you are.

Edited October 16, 2020 by Celebros

[Foozle]

Interesting debate....

When we say modern, do we actually mean artificial?

There is a parallel thread on "traditional" courses. In my view a traditional course is one where the least amount of soil has been moved in its construction, it therefore follows God given contours and features and the genius of design was in the routing through the landscape.

In those days, courses were built where nature decreed and was benevolent to us golfers.

More recently, locations are chosen commercially; it would be profitable to build a course here.

Construction has also changed and vast amounts of earth are moved to create the right sub bases, drainage  irrigation systems etc and then put back to try and look natural - usually unsuccessfully!

Given the poor starting point of commercial rather than natural suitability, architects also now create features - water hazards and the like - which again don't sit comfortably in the environment even if they do make an I interesting and challenging golf course.

Sprinkle in modern grasses, fertilizers etc and you complete the "modern" effect.

I am guessing the trend started in the '60's with the explosion of interest in golf, aided of course by TV.

[Stephen8802]

The course where I worked was modern by the early 80's when I started but I don't recall hearing when it changed.

 

I started working in the Pro Shop but ended up doing double duty and working with the greens crew. I played a lot of golf with the Greens Keeper and his brother, who had also started working there when they were around 10. They used to love to talk about how the course played before irrigation, how it would be green in the spring and then would go brown and hard in the summer, how the ball would run, and how each hole played differently depending on the time of year. They had to develop a lot of different shots to deal with lush springs and hard summers. I always wished I could hop in a time machine and play the course in the '20s they way it was built.

Edited October 17, 2020 by Stephen8802

[BIG STU]

I am going to agree with Celebros on that one. I think it started evolving in the 70s at least in the Carolinas. I grew up on Ross type courses and copies of those and a lot of push up type greens on owner designed courses. I can remember when the course boom happened here on the Grand Strand of SC in the 70s. My old man took a brief job down here and the courses were different from anything I was used to.

[farmer]

It may have started when golf courses began to be a selling feature for housing developments.

[dlygrisse]

I started playing in the mid 80’s.  The public municipal courses I played had really nice greens, decent fairways and rough that was anywhere from thick and lumpy to rock hard, hard pan. Tee boxes were hit or miss. Generally their was irrigation for the greens and a sprinkler line down the middle of the fairway, some courses I played in smaller towns only watered greens.  The fairways were what nature gave you.  
 

The private clubs that I occasionally played were very modern in that they were lush from tee to green and had thick rough. Everything seemed to go to another level during the late 90’s when the Tiger boom happened.  
 

to me the big difference is that modern courses are built more often in real estate developments and you need a cart to play them.  More forced carries, more expensive to maintain, longer, deeper bunkers, more visually appealing from a architectural standpoint but more difficult for the beginner to navigate.  I honestly think the older courses were more fun, the modern style is more frustrating unless you are playing well, but they are certainly more luxurious and upscale.  

[smashdn]

RTJ and Dye.  Coupled with TV as mentioned.  Before that who really cared if the rough was rough?

 

I think there is a psychological thing going on too.  I don't know how to characterize it but as evidence I give you how modern golfers approach divots and bad spots in the fairway.  To them if they hit the ball right where they intend to and in the fairway they are entitled to a good lie on nice grass and certainly should not have to play out of a divot.  The game was predicated upon how you overcame obstacles put in front of you.  Dropping out of a divot is not overcoming that obstacle.  It is taking the easy out because the situation is difficult and not "fair."

[mocokid]

On 10/18/2020 at 5:54 PM, BIG STU said:

I am going to agree with Celebros on that one. I think it started evolving in the 70s at least in the Carolinas. I grew up on Ross type courses and copies of those and a lot of push up type greens on owner designed courses. I can remember when the course boom happened here on the Grand Strand of SC in the 70s. My old man took a brief job down here and the courses were different from anything I was used to.

I blame PETE DYE. 

[mocokid]

actually take a look at ANGC in the 1960s or 70s youtubes.  Not as lush, you'll see burned out areas on the fringes, and traps not so manicured.  

[LeoLeo99]

They installed sprinklers for the fairways at my local muni in the late 70s or early 80s.  Before that they were on their own.  Same with the greens. My high school golf coach said to practice putting on our basement concrete floors.  And it was near impossible to stop a ball on the green.  It just bounced.  Modern conditions are easier.  Although, I wasn't hard to reach a 480yd par 4 in 2 back in the late 70s.  That is not easy for me these days.  Almost impossible.  

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

On 10/23/2020 at 3:58 AM, mocokid said:

actually take a look at ANGC in the 1960s or 70s youtubes.  Not as lush, you'll see burned out areas on the fringes, and traps not so manicured.  

 

Very true. I was watching one of the final round broadcasts the other night. It was from the early 70s, and areas of brown grass and even hardpan were visible.

[deejaid]

Growing up in rural a Central PA in the 1980’s the courses I played were all built in the 1970’s or earlier and were literally cow pastures turned into courses.   Very basic layouts, wide, flat, fairways, not much in the way of fairway bunkers, one or two traps around the green, tee boxes directly adjacent the previous green.   Simply designed courses that were affordable for a poor kid like me to play.

 

When I was 16 or so, around 1992 I believe, a new course opened that was like something we only saw on tv.  Bunkers everywhere, undulating fairways, multiple tiered greens, long cart paths between green and the next tee box; it was something my friends and I had never experienced.

 

In my small universe at the time that was the beginning of the modern course.  Moving to California at the end of the 1990’s it seemed there were lots of new courses built in the resort areas.  And a good paying job meant I could afford them.  

[Fairway14]

On 10/15/2020 at 1:15 PM, Tremendous-Slouch said:

 

 

I'm curious to hear from those with the firsthand experience, about when did golf courses become the modern, manicured, ultra-fast greens (and fairways for that matter) that we commonly associate with nice/professional golf courses? Or at least when did the change start?

 

 

 

For those interested:  

 

 

For the past 100 years  it's been a steady improvement to golf course maintenance, mostly due to the business aspect of the game. For example, when charging private club members higher price  initiation fees/dues, or public course customers greens fees, there is an expectation/demand that course maintenance and amenities are upgraded.

 

40 years ago the greens fees at Pebble Beach were $20. Today the greens fees at Pebble are $600.

[Sean2]

Modern to me seems courses that require a number of forced carries, as opposed to older designs, which allowed the golfer to play the ball on the ground. 

[RainShadow]

On 10/23/2020 at 11:35 AM, LeoLeo99 said:

They installed sprinklers for the fairways at my local muni in the late 70s or early 80s.  Before that they were on their own.  Same with the greens. My high school golf coach said to practice putting on our basement concrete floors.  And it was near impossible to stop a ball on the green.  It just bounced.  Modern conditions are easier.  Although, I wasn't hard to reach a 480yd par 4 in 2 back in the late 70s.  That is not easy for me these days.  Almost impossible.  

That wouldn't happen to coincide with the number of birthdays that have past, would it?

 

[LeoLeo99]

34 minutes ago, RainShadow said:

That wouldn't happen to coincide with the number of birthdays that have past, would it?

 

It's a combo.   Lol. 

[cardoustie]

It was the “keeping up with the Jones’” mentality over artificially difficult courses

 

Pete Dye and Sawgrass.

 

then Jack in ‘86.  Then housing developments right after that.  Golf became “look at me” right as we birthed the internet.

 

it was the competition for the most expensive ... and hardest ... and longest ... biggest fanciest clubhouse, highest initiation, fastest greens, highest rating and slope, most expensive houses on site etc etc ... 

[uitar9]

I read somewhere it was around '65 or '66 when The Masters was televised in color. Now you were able to see the brown vs the green and the network wanted that changed to all green. Better optics.

 

I agree housing developments, better agrology and underground aeration (if a course can afford it) and then longer hitters continue to push boundaries, at least for the courses used by PGA/LPGA stops.

 

With all this focus on water conservation and the environment, I wonder if we are going to go back to brown fairways?

[tannyhoban]

PGA and TPC designs for stadium golf

I think. So early 80's with Sawgrass ('82).

[DoughBack18]

On 10/24/2020 at 11:59 AM, deejaid said:

Growing up in rural a Central PA in the 1980’s the courses I played were all built in the 1970’s or earlier and were literally cow pastures turned into courses.   Very basic layouts, wide, flat, fairways, not much in the way of fairway bunkers, one or two traps around the green, tee boxes directly adjacent the previous green.   Simply designed courses that were affordable for a poor kid like me to play.

 

When I was 16 or so, around 1992 I believe, a new course opened that was like something we only saw on tv.  Bunkers everywhere, undulating fairways, multiple tiered greens, long cart paths between green and the next tee box; it was something my friends and I had never experienced.

 

In my small universe at the time that was the beginning of the modern course.  Moving to California at the end of the 1990’s it seemed there were lots of new courses built in the resort areas.  And a good paying job meant I could afford them.  

Only 2+ years later… But where in central Pa and what were some of those courses? Thats my neck of the woods and would be curious to hear how some of those course were 40ish years ago vs what I know today. Thats a lot of time for trees to grow and conditions to change!
 

I heard a quote from Lee Trevino not long ago about some of the modern tree lined layouts on old designs. He said that you can bet when they were designing those courses 100 years ago they didn’t have trees on them. That has evolved over time, but when they were originally laid out they were far more open as opposed to some of what we see today. Sure the same can be said for plenty of local tracks! 

[deejaid]

17 minutes ago, DoughBack18 said:

Only 2+ years later… But where in central Pa and what were some of those courses? Thats my neck of the woods and would be curious to hear how some of those course were 40ish years ago vs what I know today. Thats a lot of time for trees to grow and conditions to change!
 

I heard a quote from Lee Trevino not long ago about some of the modern tree lined layouts on old designs. He said that you can bet when they were designing those courses 100 years ago they didn’t have trees on them. That has evolved over time, but when they were originally laid out they were far more open as opposed to some of what we see today. Sure the same can be said for plenty of local tracks! 

Lebanon Co. courses.  Blue Mountain Golf Course and Pine Meadows before it got a full makeover in the late 90’s was where I learned the game.

 

When Royal Oaks in Lebanon opened in the early to mid 90’s it was like nothing my friends and I had seen or played.  Fairview was always about the best public course in Lebanon co. at the time.

[mocokid]

On 10/18/2020 at 6:13 PM, farmer said:

It may have started when golf courses began to be a selling feature for housing developments.

When PGA tour got involved for the $$$.

[DoughBack18]

21 hours ago, deejaid said:

Lebanon Co. courses.  Blue Mountain Golf Course and Pine Meadows before it got a full makeover in the late 90’s was where I learned the game.

 

When Royal Oaks in Lebanon opened in the early to mid 90’s it was like nothing my friends and I had seen or played.  Fairview was always about the best public course in Lebanon co. at the time.

Good stuff! I was a freshman in high school a few years after Royal Oaks had opened and we had a high school match there. The head pro was literally mid sentence talking to us about how nice the conditions are and take care of the course and I carelessly swing my putter around and took a massive divot right on the putting green 😬🤦🏼‍♂️

[bcstones]

On 10/31/2020 at 5:59 PM, cardoustie said:

 

 

Pete Dye and Sawgrass.

 

If I remember correctly, Pete Dye designed Sawgrass to mimic the Scottish links courses....after the first tournament played there, many of the Pro's complained it was too difficult a course & said they wouldn't play there again. So it was redesigned to make it easier. The problem wasn't the original design...it was the business of golf - gotta have the tournments to make money & the "civilian"s will pay more to play. 
Should have left it as originally planned....in Spirit of the Game, not the business of the game...

Edited January 5, 2023 by bcstones

[The Aspidistra in the Hall]

12 hours ago, bcstones said:

If I remember correctly, Pete Dye designed Sawgrass to mimic the Scottish links courses....after the first tournament played there, many of the Pro's complained it was too difficult a course & said they wouldn't play there again. So it was redesigned to make it easier. The problem wasn't the original design...it was the business of golf - gotta have the tournments to make money & the "civilian"s will pay more to play. 
Should have left it as originally planned....in Spirit of the Game, not the business of the game...

Wow, that would be a massive redesign. Anything less like a Scottish links course that was intended to replicate a links course, I can't imagine.

But there you go, that word 'replica' again. Whether it's hickories or golf courses, any relationship to the original is accidental.

[cold_war_era_golfer]

A few years ago I made a post here about something similar but looking for "old courses"  I've now got 3 in the Chicagoland area that not only are distance appropriate for persimmon play but are kept up like Pebble Beach in 1962.  I have a 4th right over the boarder in Wisconsin too.  

Weeds, dry spots, etc make the game more interesting and from an ecological standpoint I sort of feel better a bit about my carbon footprint when I put my money towards those courses. 

Golf courses are nasty for our planet.  The technological advancements calling for more land, water, fertilizer, etc are going to be hard to maintain as time goes on.  

 

I have a few other courses I've found that are distant appropriate but maintained with modern fertilizers and sprinkler systems.  Walking on those fairways can sometimes feel like I'm walking on something fake compared to the hard ground of the less watered fairways.  

 

[bcstones]

2 hours ago, cold_war_era_golfer said:

A few years ago I made a post here about something similar but looking for "old courses"  I've now got 3 in the Chicagoland area that not only are distance appropriate for persimmon play but are kept up like Pebble Beach in 1962.  I have a 4th right over the boarder in Wisconsin too.  

Weeds, dry spots, etc make the game more interesting and from an ecological standpoint I sort of feel better a bit about my carbon footprint when I put my money towards those courses. 

Golf courses are nasty for our planet.  The technological advancements calling for more land, water, fertilizer, etc are going to be hard to maintain as time goes on.  

 

I have a few other courses I've found that are distant appropriate but maintained with modern fertilizers and sprinkler systems.  Walking on those fairways can sometimes feel like I'm walking on something fake compared to the hard ground of the less watered fairways.  

 

my Uncle, living in the Chicago area for decades...played at the Tam O'Shanter back in the day when it was a championship 18 hole course in the 40's & 50's. It is now a 9 hole course. Is it on your list?