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Verbal commitments and NCAA Golf Recruiting Rules


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You spelled Saban wrong.

It depends.  The top schools are getting the top kids to verbal.  Doesn't always work out.  I personally know a girl that was committed to Miami.  The week leading up to signing day Miami never sent t

I hate to say this, but could this be a bigger issue with women's golf coaches? It seems the people in here who have had problems with this subject all have daughters playing or hoping to play in coll

14 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

It depends.  The top schools are getting the top kids to verbal.  Doesn't always work out.  I personally know a girl that was committed to Miami.  The week leading up to signing day Miami never sent the paper work.  They backed out and went with someone else.  A verbal means nothing.

That is discouraging.  Did the coach give a reason?  A week before signing day - at what point can you feel comfortable that it's a done deal?

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On 10/16/2020 at 10:45 AM, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

Interesting

 

How often do those end up working out in the end?  And are the 2021 verbal commits at this point probably a done deal, since NLI is less than a month away?

 

 

This really depends on the coach.  From what I seen and heard some coaches throw out verbal commitments hoping they get lucky and a top pick chooses them. I think some kids also misunderstand coaches to who express interest. I also think some coaches also actually take verbals serious. So really hard to know until the day comes to sign.

 

Personally when it comes to college recruiting the best advice is go out and explore college when your kid is between 12-14.  I only say this because it really helps to motivate kids in school who likes golf and you learn a lot. Don't break the bank on doing this they should be fun and reasonable priced and think out of the box where you would go.

 

Ultimately don't worry about kids getting early commitments just go out and get great scores.   Focus should be first lower scores to win qualifiers for big tournaments the tournaments you play should not matter. Just make sure you playing high quality hard courses which may or may not be locally.   Then If you can qualify and play well in decent tournaments you going to have college coaches nocking on your door. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

This really depends on the coach.  From what I seen and heard some coaches throw out verbal commitments hoping they get lucky and a top pick chooses them. I think some kids also misunderstand coaches to who express interest. I also think some coaches also actually take verbals serious. So really hard to know until the day comes to sign.

 

 

I think you’re confusing offers and commitments. Coaches can offer as many kids as they want. If a kid wants to accept the offer and “commit”, the coach can choose to accept the commitment or try to “slow play” the kid if the coach is waiting on another kid higher on his wish list. Typically, coaches honor their kids’ commitments.  However, in football, some coaches, like Jim Harbaugh, are known for accepting kid’s commitments, recruiting “better” kids and dropping the original kids. But it’s rare to do it last minute without some type of warning (e.g. slowing or stopping communication). 

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1 hour ago, bdecena said:

I think you’re confusing offers and commitments. Coaches can offer as many kids as they want. If a kid wants to accept the offer and “commit”, the coach can choose to accept the commitment or try to “slow play” the kid if the coach is waiting on another kid higher on his wish list. Typically, coaches honor their kids’ commitments.  However, in football, some coaches, like Jim Harbaugh, are known for accepting kid’s commitments, recruiting “better” kids and dropping the original kids. But it’s rare to do it last minute without some type of warning (e.g. slowing or stopping communication). 

 

I am not really confusing it.    For a lot kids everything works out it.  But like everything there are coaches and kids who abuse the system.   It's why doing camps are pretty good at a young age.  We done a few of them and it was a real eye opener.   Some coaches are really awesome and there is a real connection and genuine interest in seeing your kid do well.  Others are a nightmare and  I don't care what offer they give you I would stay far away from them. 

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10 hours ago, bdecena said:

I think you’re confusing offers and commitments. Coaches can offer as many kids as they want. If a kid wants to accept the offer and “commit”, the coach can choose to accept the commitment or try to “slow play” the kid if the coach is waiting on another kid higher on his wish list. Typically, coaches honor their kids’ commitments.  However, in football, some coaches, like Jim Harbaugh, are known for accepting kid’s commitments, recruiting “better” kids and dropping the original kids. But it’s rare to do it last minute without some type of warning (e.g. slowing or stopping communication). 

You spelled Saban wrong.

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On 10/16/2020 at 10:08 AM, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

That is discouraging.  Did the coach give a reason?  A week before signing day - at what point can you feel comfortable that it's a done deal?


It’s not a “done deal” or official until you physically sign a letter of intent. An athlete can verbally commit and de-commit from as many schools as they want as many times as they want. Same goes for schools/coaches. They can verbally offer as many scholarships as they want, but until that letter is signed it is just words and/or promises.
 

Is it fair? Not really but it goes both ways. As someone who played college golf for a power 5 school the best advice I can give to kids is to keep all of your options open. Don’t hang all your hopes and dreams on your “dream program.” Putting all your eggs in one basket is a huge gamble especially when you remember that DI men’s golf programs are only allowed 4.5 scholarships so they aren’t exactly generous with them.  

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21 hours ago, Abh159 said:


It’s not a “done deal” or official until you physically sign a letter of intent. An athlete can verbally commit and de-commit from as many schools as they want as many times as they want. Same goes for schools/coaches. They can verbally offer as many scholarships as they want, but until that letter is signed it is just words and/or promises.
 

Is it fair? Not really but it goes both ways. As someone who played college golf for a power 5 school the best advice I can give to kids is to keep all of your options open. Don’t hang all your hopes and dreams on your “dream program.” Putting all your eggs in one basket is a huge gamble especially when you remember that DI men’s golf programs are only allowed 4.5 scholarships so they aren’t exactly generous with them.  

 

A lot people think Dream programs are the way to go. My daughter did camps at a few schools and to her surprise the dream program which was highly ranked she ended not liking it at all.  They were super strict with their players and just overall lousy facilities and honestly not that great with instruction.  A lowly ranked program on the other hand the coach was incredible and lots of fun.  Would not be surprised if that coach is still there in 5 years it will be on the top of her list.

 

A lot these schools play the same courses and tournaments. Choosing the correct fit is very important. I know of a few girls who turned down offers because they the offers they got were not a good fit for their long term education plans.  They would rather not play anywhere then take an offer that wasn't a good fit.  You learn a lot from parents of older kids who are going through recruiting.

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22 hours ago, Abh159 said:


It’s not a “done deal” or official until you physically sign a letter of intent. An athlete can verbally commit and de-commit from as many schools as they want as many times as they want. Same goes for schools/coaches. They can verbally offer as many scholarships as they want, but until that letter is signed it is just words and/or promises.
 

Is it fair? Not really but it goes both ways. As someone who played college golf for a power 5 school the best advice I can give to kids is to keep all of your options open. Don’t hang all your hopes and dreams on your “dream program.” Putting all your eggs in one basket is a huge gamble especially when you remember that DI men’s golf programs are only allowed 4.5 scholarships so they aren’t exactly generous with them.  

 

 

Great advice.  I have said it more than once on here.  You may have dream school, go there and never play.  Be realistic and go somewhere that you can play.  Must ask the right questions not only to the coaches, but to the players that are there.  Don't ask just the kids that play, ask the kids that don't play.

 

If your aspirations are to make it to the next level, don't go somewhere that you can't play immediately.  It doesn't matter if you go low D1, D2, or D3 because you have the chance at any of these levels to make it in golf.  You just need the opportunity to play.  

 

The worst thing about college athletics is there is nothing in place to protect the athletes. Some day I will give my complete opinion on college athletics, athletic departments, and college coaches.

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5 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

A lot people think Dream programs are the way to go. My daughter did camps at a few schools and to her surprise the dream program which was highly ranked she ended not liking it at all.  They were super strict with their players and just overall lousy facilities and honestly not that great with instruction.  A lowly ranked program on the other hand the coach was incredible and lots of fun.  Would not be surprised if that coach is still there in 5 years it will be on the top of her list.

 

A lot these schools play the same courses and tournaments. Choosing the correct fit is very important. I know of a few girls who turned down offers because they the offers they got were not a good fit for their long term education plans.  They would rather not play anywhere then take an offer that wasn't a good fit.  You learn a lot from parents of older kids who are going through recruiting.

 

College Coaches are not golf instructors.  They are coaches and most are not certified to teach.  When you go to school you will have to secure and pay for your own swing coach.  Your School Golf Coach puts you through training and drills to make you better.  More often or not they are not working on your swing or fundamentals.  They may know enough to help if something goes haywire, but that is about it.  They are supposed to be a coach.  Training, motivation, organized practices, recruiters for the school, mental trainers, course managment.

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1 hour ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

 

If your aspirations are to make it to the next level, don't go somewhere that you can't play immediately.  It doesn't matter if you go low D1, D2, or D3 because you have the chance at any of these levels to make it in golf.  You just need the opportunity to play.  

 

Don't rule NAIA schools.  Alot of great small and large  schools with athletic money to boot.

 

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2 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 

 

Great advice.  I have said it more than once on here.  You may have dream school, go there and never play.  Be realistic and go somewhere that you can play.  Must ask the right questions not only to the coaches, but to the players that are there.  Don't ask just the kids that play, ask the kids that don't play.

 

If your aspirations are to make it to the next level, don't go somewhere that you can't play immediately.  It doesn't matter if you go low D1, D2, or D3 because you have the chance at any of these levels to make it in golf.  You just need the opportunity to play.  

 

The worst thing about college athletics is there is nothing in place to protect the athletes. Some day I will give my complete opinion on college athletics, athletic departments, and college coaches. 

 

At the end of the day when I get asked about it from various friends of ours who have kids I always tell them the best school you can choose is one you feel will set you up the best for your life after college. Only an extremely small percentage of college golfers are successful as a professional so make sure that you are prioritizing the education and not just the golf or playing time. 
 

Of the 15 or so teammates I had in college only 3 turned pro, and of those 3 none ever made it past playing in a few Korn Ferry tour events. They all gave up after about 3-5 years. Golf isn’t fun anymore when your living out of your car only making $20-30k a year. Keep in mind we were a top 25 DI program with a lot of talented players. 

All that is to say that you need to make sure your child is setting themself up with a degree and education to be successful if they aren’t in the 0.5% of collegiate golfers that make it professionally. 

 

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

At the end of the day when I get asked about it from various friends of ours who have kids I always tell them the best school you can choose is one you feel will set you up the best for your life after college. Only an extremely small percentage of college golfers are successful as a professional so make sure that you are prioritizing the education and not just the golf or playing time. 
 

Of the 15 or so teammates I had in college only 3 turned pro, and of those 3 none ever made it past playing in a few Korn Ferry tour events. They all gave up after about 3-5 years. Golf isn’t fun anymore when your living out of your car only making $20-30k a year. Keep in mind we were a top 25 DI program with a lot of talented players. 

All that is to say that you need to make sure your child is setting themself up with a degree and education to be successful if they aren’t in the 0.5% of collegiate golfers that make it professionally. 

 

 

 

This seems like very wise advice.  Best of both worlds would be a school that both allows to chase the (golf) dream while preparing for maximum success in life (after golf).  Hard to find both.

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18 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

At the end of the day when I get asked about it from various friends of ours who have kids I always tell them the best school you can choose is one you feel will set you up the best for your life after college. Only an extremely small percentage of college golfers are successful as a professional so make sure that you are prioritizing the education and not just the golf or playing time. 
 

Of the 15 or so teammates I had in college only 3 turned pro, and of those 3 none ever made it past playing in a few Korn Ferry tour events. They all gave up after about 3-5 years. Golf isn’t fun anymore when your living out of your car only making $20-30k a year. Keep in mind we were a top 25 DI program with a lot of talented players. 

All that is to say that you need to make sure your child is setting themself up with a degree and education to be successful if they aren’t in the 0.5% of collegiate golfers that make it professionally. 

 

 

 

Absolutely and not enough people understand this.  My daughter attends a Conference USA School.  The coach is currently suspended due to a University internal investigation into Mental Abuse, Racism, Sexual Harassment, Hippa, and NCAA violations.  This coach is insane.  The same coach would not allow players to pursue certain degrees of study because it interfered with golf (even if they were paying their own way).  She felt that if your goal wasn't to be on the LPGA then your goals didn't meet up with hers.  So girl's are in Degrees of study that won't help them after college.  Unless you are top 10 on the LPGA, I have no idea why anyone would want to pursue it.  20-30 grand a year living out of other peoples houses is not a dream job.  

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5 minutes ago, heavy_hitter said:

Absolutely and not enough people understand this.  My daughter attends a Conference USA School.  The coach is currently suspended due to a University internal investigation into Mental Abuse, Racism, Sexual Harassment, Hippa, and NCAA violations.  This coach is insane.  The same coach would not allow players to pursue certain degrees of study because it interfered with golf (even if they were paying their own way).  She felt that if your goal wasn't to be on the LPGA then your goals didn't meet up with hers.  So girl's are in Degrees of study that won't help them after college.  Unless you are top 10 on the LPGA, I have no idea why anyone would want to pursue it.  20-30 grand a year living out of other peoples houses is not a dream job.  

 

This is wild. I've never heard of a coach not allowing certain fields of study. That is a really, really serious problem not even considering all the other issues. It sounds like the school and athletic department should have stepped in long ago, but maybe this school's problems go a lot higher than the women's golf coach??

 

Fortunately neither my teammates or any of my other friends who went on to other SEC and ACC schools ever had an issue with this. A few of my teammates went to law school. One went to med school. Several others (including myself) went on to grad school. Maybe we just had a good coach, but he never once took issue with our class schedule.

 

I guess that is another thing you should be asking when you are going through the recruiting process. Ensuring the coach is welcoming and accommodating of your choice in degree.

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16 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

This is wild. I've never heard of a coach not allowing certain fields of study. That is a really, really serious problem not even considering all the other issues. It sounds like the school and athletic department should have stepped in long ago, but maybe this school's problems go a lot higher than the women's golf coach??

 

Fortunately neither my teammates or any of my other friends who went on to other SEC and ACC schools ever had an issue with this. A few of my teammates went to law school. One went to med school. Several others (including myself) went on to grad school. Maybe we just had a good coach, but he never once took issue with our class schedule.

 

I guess that is another thing you should be asking when you are going through the recruiting process. Ensuring the coach is welcoming and accommodating of your choice in degree.

 

I sent you a PM.  It has been a wild rider.  Fortunately, my daughter will graduate with 3 degrees in May and has already signed a contract to work for one the Big 3.

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19 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

This is wild. I've never heard of a coach not allowing certain fields of study. That is a really, really serious problem not even considering all the other issues. It sounds like the school and athletic department should have stepped in long ago, but maybe this school's problems go a lot higher than the women's golf coach??

 

Fortunately neither my teammates or any of my other friends who went on to other SEC and ACC schools ever had an issue with this. A few of my teammates went to law school. One went to med school. Several others (including myself) went on to grad school. Maybe we just had a good coach, but he never once took issue with our class schedule.

 

I guess that is another thing you should be asking when you are going through the recruiting process. Ensuring the coach is welcoming and accommodating of your choice in degree.

I went to a Q&A with coaches from the UofA and ASU earlier this year. I specifically asked them if my daughter wanted to go into medicine, law, engineering, etc, could she do it and play golf? They all said many top programs would discourage it. They didn’t specifically say they, themselves, would but that’s what I got out of it. They were very clear that they were hired to win and that required kids to succeed academically. Difficult majors didn’t help them achieve their goals. 
 

A major point they made was that there are three major components of a golfer’s college experience: golf, academics and social life. You can excel only at up to two of the three. 

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56 minutes ago, bdecena said:

I went to a Q&A with coaches from the UofA and ASU earlier this year. I specifically asked them if my daughter wanted to go into medicine, law, engineering, etc, could she do it and play golf? They all said many top programs would discourage it. They didn’t specifically say they, themselves, would but that’s what I got out of it. They were very clear that they were hired to win and that required kids to succeed academically. Difficult majors didn’t help them achieve their goals. 
 

A major point they made was that there are three major components of a golfer’s college experience: golf, academics and social life. You can excel only at up to two of the three. 

 

I hate to say this, but could this be a bigger issue with women's golf coaches? It seems the people in here who have had problems with this subject all have daughters playing or hoping to play in college.

 

As I mentioned earlier neither myself nor any of the other 20 or so friends I had who played college golf ever had a coach who took issue or discouraged their academic pursuits. Of course me being a guy all of my experience is on that side of things. I remember when I chose my major (one with a lot of time spent in a lab) my coach told me it would be difficult because of all the lab hours, but as long as I kept my grades up and was focused on golf while we were on the course he would support me 100%. I will say one thing most people don't realize is that golf (both men's and women's) causes athletes to miss more class time than any other NCAA sport. Almost all of our fall and spring tournaments were 36 holes on Monday and 18 on Tuesday so we would typically miss anywhere from 10-15 days of class each semester.

 

On a side note, I have a close friend who went and played at Arizona and trust me when I say that no one at that school (or ASU) had any problems maintaining a thriving social life.

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1 hour ago, bdecena said:

I went to a Q&A with coaches from the UofA and ASU earlier this year. I specifically asked them if my daughter wanted to go into medicine, law, engineering, etc, could she do it and play golf? They all said many top programs would discourage it. They didn’t specifically say they, themselves, would but that’s what I got out of it. They were very clear that they were hired to win and that required kids to succeed academically. Difficult majors didn’t help them achieve their goals. 
 

A major point they made was that there are three major components of a golfer’s college experience: golf, academics and social life. You can excel only at up to two of the three. 

 

I heard a similar story that a lot schools discourage certain majors. The top program camp we attended the coach was much more blunt. They pretty much said it their approach was they are the coaches including swing coaches.  They're philosophy is they take total control and will make you a greater golfer.   It's hard to see how this approach his very good for the golfers who most likely will not make it on the LPGA.   I don't like this approach at all but who am I to say that.  I am sure some kids need this sort of thing and will help them  plus they do have an impressive record of success and winning a lot stuff.

 

The mid tier school college camp we attended the coach  had a very different philosophy.  She told all us in Camp that she taught great college golfers but almost no one ever makes in the LPGA and if they take that path they usually don't play college golf anyways and are not good recruits. She wanted solid players who worked hard academically  wanted a degree and will stay for 4 years and  hopefully they were successful in getting a good education and decent job after graduation.   You better believe this sort of talking has me thinking this is the coach you want. 

 

I am really only mentioning this because it seems their is so many different coaches and it's very important and the top program everyone wants may not be a great deal you think it is. Heck maybe even doing D1 is not a smart thing if you don't get what you want or need out the program.

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43 minutes ago, Abh159 said:

 

I hate to say this, but could this be a bigger issue with women's golf coaches? It seems the people in here who have had problems with this subject all have daughters playing or hoping to play in college.

 

As I mentioned earlier neither myself nor any of the other 20 or so friends I had who played college golf ever had a coach who took issue or discouraged their academic pursuits. Of course me being a guy all of my experience is on that side of things. I remember when I chose my major (one with a lot of time spent in a lab) my coach told me it would be difficult because of all the lab hours, but as long as I kept my grades up and was focused on golf while we were on the course he would support me 100%. I will say one thing most people don't realize is that golf (both men's and women's) causes athletes to miss more class time than any other NCAA sport. Almost all of our fall and spring tournaments were 36 holes on Monday and 18 on Tuesday so we would typically miss anywhere from 10-15 days of class each semester.

 

On a side note, I have a close friend who went and played at Arizona and trust me when I say that no one at that school (or ASU) had any problems maintaining a thriving social life.

There were coaches from both the men’s and women’s teams at the Q&A. 

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College coaches are already putting their careers in the hands of teenagers. You think they want their players stressed, overworked and have their minds elsewhere than on the golf course?  Nobody is going to go play golf at ASU or OSU because they produce the best theoretical physicists or chemical engineers. 

There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.
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1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

College coaches are already putting their careers in the hands of teenagers. You think they want their players stressed, overworked and have their minds elsewhere than on the golf course?  Nobody is going to go play golf at ASU or OSU because they produce the best theoretical physicists or chemical engineers. 

 

I think a lot Parents and Kids are shortsighted on this. Does Playing golf at ASU or OSU be a good choice once you no longer playing golf. Maybe it helped Mathew Wolff or Phil Mickelson to play at those schools but the vast majority that played at ASU and OSU will never came close to making it as pro on tour.  The kid that wanted to be a doctor and played at Rutgers or Maybe say Georgia Southern might have actually got the better deal in the long run.

 

To be honest both Wolff and Mickelson are examples of players who probably didn't even need to play college and would have still been successful once they turned pro on tour.  Honestly for phil maybe playing college cost the US Open since he should have maybe focused on that when he was college??? 

 

The fact is most players who play in College are best off pursing a degree that they want and sometimes that may mean they shouldn't play in college if that gets in way of the degree they want..

 

 

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3 hours ago, leezer99 said:

College coaches are already putting their careers in the hands of teenagers. You think they want their players stressed, overworked and have their minds elsewhere than on the golf course?  Nobody is going to go play golf at ASU or OSU because they produce the best theoretical physicists or chemical engineers. 

 

Although I get your point, I agree with tiger1873 saying it's a bit shortsighted. NCAA golf isn't like football. A golf coach isn't going to have boosters calling for his head if he has a bad season or two. Winning constantly isn't nearly as important for non-revenue generating sports like golf. Therefore, his (or her) job is not only to achieve athletic success, but to also set up the student-athletes for academic and post college success. I'm not saying a coach should necessarily encourage a kid to pursue a difficult degree, but they absolutely shouldn't discourage it if that is what that kid wants to do. 

 

Just look at Bryson DeChambeau. If he didn't turn out to be the player he has become, he would still have a Physics degree from SMU to fall back on. I'd be willing to bet he could find a decent job or at the very least get into a top-tier grad school with that degree. Would it be the same if he had gotten a degree in Criminal Justice or Art History? 

 

And if you want to single out OK State... they have 10 former players who are current PGA Tour members. So although that is a lot more than most other programs, it still means the very large majority of their players are not playing professionally. If you just look at the time since the year 2000 at least 90% of OSU players are not professional golfers (give or take 5 new team members per year X 20 years = 100 total team members). When those 90 other players are applying for a job after graduation they aren't going to land a good job just because they played golf at OSU. 

 

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On 11/17/2020 at 10:57 AM, leezer99 said:

College coaches are already putting their careers in the hands of teenagers. You think they want their players stressed, overworked and have their minds elsewhere than on the golf course?  Nobody is going to go play golf at ASU or OSU because they produce the best theoretical physicists or chemical engineers. 

Have you ever heard of a College Golf Coache fired because they didn't win?  I haven't.  If they are fired it is because of something else.

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