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Are larger game improvement irons actually harder to hit solid?


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I have an interesting question.... I read a “theory” somewhere that it’s actually harder to hit large game improvement irons solid because the larger face gives you more room for error, whereas with a smaller blade type face, you are almost forced to hit the ball on the center of the face. I didn’t really buy into this, but I recently got a blended set of hot metal/hot metal pros and on the range I was hitting the 5 and 6 hot metals way out on the toe, but didn’t have that problem with the HMP 7 iron. Do you think this theory holds some weight?


I guess you could also argue that a larger miss with a larger head is still closer to the sweet spot than a smaller miss with a smaller head, and that on average the larger head should help more than it hurts. 
 

anyway, you see where I’m going with this and would love to hear your thoughts (or better yet, your actual experiences with different irons). 

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I roll my eye's at those that think small head clubs are easier to hit and/or they teach you to hit the center of the face.  Simple fact is that people that miss the center of the face have swing flaw

Long time player of shovels and I have no problem hitting the center.  I know when I don't, but I get the benefit of not getting a bad result when I miss it.  Purist might like hitting bad shots when

Ummmmm,,,,,,,, because they're human ? (What do I win ?)

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I'm not a swing guru or anything but based on my experience playing every type of club imaginable, no. If you can hit the center of the club face then you can hit the center of the club face. The difference between the 2 types of irons will be ball flight. I would think they SGI clubs would hit it higher. The game improvement clubs are just better on off center hits. My opinion of course and I'm sure someone is going to come in and say I'm dead wrong and they will probably be right lol

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 I believe most players (of all skill levels) would find it easier to swing and square at impact a 360 CC driver than they would a 460 CC driver.

Within the iron category I believe the relatively small models of 25 years ago were easier to swing and square at impact than today's mid size and jumbo size iron heads.

Computer modeling and data prove that mishit shots get better results with a larger size head. The club company product design engineers hang their hats on this so that is what the company's produce, and their employees sing the song titled "bigger is better".

However, if smaller heads results in fewer mishit shots, then I believe the player is better served swinging relatively small heads.

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Just a thought here. If smaller heads are harder to hit the center wouldn’t that also mean that really small heads would be easier to miss the ball completely? Whiffs. I cant say that a really small ahead has resulted in a whiff for me. 
 

Furthermore, wouldn’t a shank be more likely with a smaller head? IDK is that logic holds up either. 

 

just a few quick thoughts. Not an argument for smaller heads. 

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That proved to be the case for me as I have a small set of blades and got some SL Pinhawks that weren't that big and I hit them all over the face, which then affected my swing negatively. It would seem to be logical that since everybody plays bigger drivers that irons would be better off bigger, but that isn't the case at least for me and others. Apparently I just swing better if I have to up my concentration a little. I'm a high hc'er and I play blades and have no problem hitting them well most of the time. If I miss it it falls short but when I hit it good I'm sure there aren't any GI's out there that have the same positive feedback, something that will give me confidence to make a good swing the next time. My blades aren't forged but they are very soft 304 steel and feel better than many forged blades I've hit, especially on mishits because they don't hurt as much.

 

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2 hours ago, chipa said:

Apparently I just swing better if I have to up my concentration a little. I'm a high hc'er and I play blades and have no problem hitting them well most of the time. If I miss it it falls short but when I hit it good I'm sure there aren't any GI's out there that have the same positive feedback, something that will give me confidence to make a good swing the next time. My blades aren't forged but they are very soft 304 steel and feel better than many forged blades I've hit, especially on mishits because they don't hurt as much.

 

smiley-bounce022.gif.f7a793a58a8edc4853e

 

Haven't seen that one in a while - can't believe I (almost) missed it. :classic_laugh::classic_laugh::classic_laugh:

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, harpua728 said:

I didn’t really buy into this, but I recently got a blended set of hot metal/hot metal pros and on the range I was hitting the 5 and 6 hot metals way out on the toe, but didn’t have that problem with the HMP 7 iron. Do you think this theory holds some weight?

 

A couple of things to look at:

 

How is your overall flexibility? Any chance you are "standing up" on the longer-shafted 5i and 6i?

 

How about shaft length? This would be a problem if you tended to hit all your irons toward the toe. A couple of years ago, I got a rough fitting for irons. Turns out I got more center hits with shafts 1/4-inch longer than my then shafts. You don't get shaft extensions for a quarter-inch, so I started lining up shots about a half-inch toward the heel. Doing this greatly increased my centerish hits (if I was otherwise swinging smoothly).

 

If you are going to be blending iron sets, you need to get on Trackman and see what is different about the strike/spin of the 5i and the 7i shots.

4 hours ago, harpua728 said:

...it’s actually harder to hit large game improvement irons solid because the larger face gives you more room for error, whereas with a smaller blade type face, you are almost forced to hit the ball on the center of the face.

 

Did you mean "large super game improvement irons...?" I have played three different game improvement irons over the past decade: Callaway X20 Tours, TM SLDRs (still in my backup bag) and Tour Edge CB Pro Tungstens. If you put them side-by-side with Players irons, the GIs are a bit wider in face. But, they don't look larger at address.

 

If you're talking about true SGI irons, one difference between them and Players irons is the amount of material in the  head. I would suggest that bulkier SGI irons have less feel than Players irons (or many Gi irons) because the bulk absorbs more of the vibrations/impact feel.

 

And Players irons have less forgiveness and more workability than SGI irons. But, you need a repeatable swing to capitalize on this Players' benefit.

 

Check out Golf Digest for a test on this topic. What's Your Iron Type? Issue 9, 2020, p. 30.

(I subscribe to GD, but was unable to access article link.)

 

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29 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

 

A couple of things to look at:

 

How is your overall flexibility? Any chance you are "standing up" on the longer-shafted 5i and 6i?

 

How about shaft length? This would be a problem if you tended to hit all your irons toward the toe. A couple of years ago, I got a rough fitting for irons. Turns out I got more center hits with shafts 1/4-inch longer than my then shafts. You don't get shaft extensions for a quarter-inch, so I started lining up shots about a half-inch toward the heel. Doing this greatly increased my centerish hits (if I was otherwise swinging smoothly).

 

If you are going to be blending iron sets, you need to get on Trackman and see what is different about the strike/spin of the 5i and the 7i shots.

 

 

 


standing up is definitely a swing fault of mine, so this could be part of the cause. 

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2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

smiley-bounce022.gif.f7a793a58a8edc4853e

 

Haven't seen that one in a while - can't believe I (almost) missed it. :classic_laugh::classic_laugh::classic_laugh:

 

 

 

 

Let me ask you a question - why do pros sometimes hit bad shots?

 

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1 minute ago, chipa said:

 

Let me ask you a question - why do pros sometimes hit bad shots?

 

Ummmmm,,,,,,,, because they're human ? (What do I win ?)

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1 minute ago, nsxguy said:

 

Ummmmm,,,,,,,, because they're human ? (What do I win ?)

 

From what I've seen and heard numerous pros say is that they weren't concentrating suffiently, ie "in the shot".

 

That's the same thing that happens to me too, that's one of the reason why I as a high hc'er play blades. It's not for everyone and when I saw someone post something along the same line here on the forum I questioned it - until I tried some small GI irons.

 

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18 minutes ago, chipa said:

 

From what I've seen and heard numerous pros say is that they weren't concentrating suffiently, ie "in the shot".

 

That's the same thing that happens to me too, that's one of the reason why I as a high hc'er play blades. It's not for everyone and when I saw someone post something along the same line here on the forum I questioned it - until I tried some small GI irons.

 

If only concentrating on something would make it so.

 

Unfortunately there's a lot more to striking a golf ball other than concentrating.

 

It is also disingenuous to suggest that players who play more forgiving clubs are not focused as much as those playing blades.

 

Here's a thread that'll keep ya occupied for a while,,,,,,,, https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1124576-blade-users-thread-no-debating-clubheads-no-buy-sell-trade/

 

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1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

If only concentrating on something would make it so.

 

Unfortunately there's a lot more to striking a golf ball other than concentrating.

 

It is also disingenuous to suggest that players who play more forgiving clubs are not focused as much as those playing blades.

 

Here's a thread that'll keep ya occupied for a while,,,,,,,, https://forums.golfwrx.com/topic/1124576-blade-users-thread-no-debating-clubheads-no-buy-sell-trade/

 

 

I have only referenced my experience, which is true. I can't speak for anyone else and don't believe I have - thank you.

Edited by chipa

 

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1 minute ago, chipa said:

 

I have only referenced my experience, which is true. I can't speak for anyone else in spite of your insinuation.

 

I'm not insinuating you're speaking for anyone else.

 

But simply suggesting that focusing is the key for hitting blades could be construed as suggesting that CB players aren't focusing (enough) and that is the difference.

 

There are plenty of CB players that would suggest otherwise.

 

You have a nice evening now,,,,,,,,, :classic_wink:

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2 hours ago, chipa said:

 

Let me ask you a question - why do pros sometimes hit bad shots?

Most of the time they aren't committed to the shot they are playing.  Doubt in their ability to hit it.  Doubt in what they see and what the caddie is saying.  Just a lot of doubt.  It has nothing to do with their swing mechanics as these guys hit it on the button even though they hit a bad shot.

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2 hours ago, chipa said:

From what I've seen and heard numerous pros say is that they weren't concentrating sufficiently, ie "in the shot".

As for not being "in the shot," sometimes involving indecision and groupthink:

 

image.png.228030b5fb1cdf16cd37a4ccc359475a.pngI once caddied in a women's pro tournament, and us caddies watched in pain as all three players went for a sucker pin on a lakeside par 3. The pin was set just past a front bunker, the node was maybe 15 yards deep, and players faced a gusty quartering headwind.

 

The three all missed the green (red circles) and took bogies. No one seemed to be set on what club and shot they wanted. One had a downhill bunker recovery, got it half way there and two-putted; a second ran a putt out of bumpy short rough, and lipped out a par putt; the third sliced a ball under the sagging branches of a weeping willow tree, hit a branch coming out, and needed a 3-footer after second chip to save bogie.

 

Us caddies wondered why they didn't fly a safe ball into the deeper left side of the green, lag down for par and go to the next hole.

 

What's worse, two of the three missed the cut by one stroke.

 

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Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5° set +1°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i-9i

Wedges:  Calla MD3: 48° and 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced)

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12 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

I'm not insinuating you're speaking for anyone else.

 

But simply suggesting that focusing is the key for hitting blades could be construed as suggesting that CB players aren't focusing (enough) and that is the difference.

 

There are plenty of CB players that would suggest otherwise.

 

You have a nice evening now,,,,,,,,, :classic_wink:

 

You can construe all you want buddy but that's not what I said.

 

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11 hours ago, Socrates said:

Most of the time they aren't committed to the shot they are playing.  Doubt in their ability to hit it.  Doubt in what they see and what the caddie is saying.  Just a lot of doubt.  It has nothing to do with their swing mechanics as these guys hit it on the button even though they hit a bad shot.

 

I never talked about swing mechanics, I said make a good swing. I have not said anything different than many pros have said when asked why that made a bad shot.

 

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2 minutes ago, chipa said:

 

You can construe all you want buddy but that's not what I said.

 

OK buddy, whatever you say,,,,,,, or don't,,,,,,, :classic_wink:

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6 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

OK buddy, whatever you say,,,,,,, or don't,,,,,,, :classic_wink:

 

Apparently you can't understand my post was about my experience with GI irons(that were more expensive than my cheap blades)  that I bought and tried as a 15 handicapper and hit worse than my blades. You and others may not be like me and ok that's fine. You may also like to speak for others as well, but that's not what I am doing.

 

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1 hour ago, chipa said:

 

Apparently you can't understand my post was about my experience with GI irons(that were more expensive than my cheap blades)  that I bought and tried as a 15 handicapper and hit worse than my blades. You and others may not be like me and ok that's fine. You may also like to speak for others as well, but that's not what I am doing.

 

I tried to end this but you apparently won't let it go.

 

Apparently you can't understand that I understand your posts just fine.

 

Apparently you don't understand that I don't like NOR dislike you. I don't know you.

 

Apparently you don't understand that I am not speaking for others, other than to convey what THEY have said themselves.

 

Now you GET the last word,,,,,,, here,,,,,, so long as you don't accuse me of other things that you are apparently reading too much into,,,, ✌️

 

 

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43 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I tried to end this but you apparently won't let it go.

 

Apparently you can't understand that I understand your posts just fine.

 

Apparently you don't understand that I don't like NOR dislike you. I don't know you.

 

Apparently you don't understand that I am not speaking for others, other than to convey what THEY have said themselves.

 

Now you GET the last word,,,,,,, here,,,,,, so long as you don't accuse me of other things that you are apparently reading too much into,,,, ✌️

 

 

 

My experience with blades is my personal experience and may not be the same as others. I hit them better than GI because I believe I am forced to concentrate more than I normally would. If that doesn't work for you or anyone else this is not an insinuation that somehow you/they are not concentrating enough. Good grief.

 

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4 minutes ago, chipa said:

 

My experience with blades is my personal experience and may not be the same as others. I hit them better than GI because I believe I am forced to concentrate more than I normally would. If that doesn't work for you or anyone else this is not an insinuation that somehow you/they are not concentrating enough. Good grief.

 

Thank you.

 

I understand.

 

Again.

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34 minutes ago, chipa said:

 

My experience with blades is my personal experience and may not be the same as others. I hit them better than GI because I believe I am forced to concentrate more than I normally would. If that doesn't work for you or anyone else this is not an insinuation that somehow you/they are not concentrating enough. Good grief.

I not really sure why anyone would want to concentrate less on a shot.  By your rationale, better concentration should result in better swings, better contact and by extension, better shots and a lower score.   If concentrating more was the only difference between being a low handicap and a higher handicap, most everyone would be a low handicap. 

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21 hours ago, Nessism said:

I roll my eye's at those that think small head clubs are easier to hit and/or they teach you to hit the center of the face.  Simple fact is that people that miss the center of the face have swing flaws, and rubbing their nose in this fact through stinging hands from off center impact strikes doesn't teach them WHAT they did wrong and how to fix it.

 

If you strike the center of the face most of the time then high MOI irons won't help your game.  On the other hand, if you don't hit the center every time (like me,) then a high forgiveness club can help you.  

Get ready for an eye roll.

 

I am pretty competent golfer (Had a cup of coffee as a + cap and play to 4 these days). Despite being a low capper, my iron game is more like that of 8-10 capper and not my strong suit so at one stage I moved to SGI irons - the Calloway X-18 or 20. When I first got them it felt like cheating. It was so easy to hit them and make great shots, but after about a year I found my swing degrading as there was a wide range of misses that felt the like centre hits but weren't. Eventually I really lost my iron swing and went back to more of player iron to try to find it again. 

 

Maybe I need to practice with blades and play with SGI's? But for me I did find the larger SGI clubs did not give sufficient feedback to keep my swing in tune. 

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1 hour ago, Socrates said:

I not really sure why anyone would want to concentrate less on a shot.  By your rationale, better concentration should result in better swings, better contact and by extension, better shots and a lower score.   If concentrating more was the only difference between being a low handicap and a higher handicap, most everyone would be a low handicap. 

 

Don't be mistaken - my rationale works for me and it may not for you or others. This does not mean that I am somehow better than you.

Edited by chipa

 

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The actual size of the head may not make a difference, if it does it’s probably psychological.   It could be factors such as offset, bounce, shaft, weight, swing weight, cog etc.   Simply the club may just fit you better for a variety of reasons.  
 

For some a larger head brings more confidence, for others a smaller head gives more confidence.  Concentration seems like a weird explanation, but just thinking you will perform better with one or the other, for whatever reason,  can certainly alter how well you swing. 
 

I would rather swing well and hit it solid than have a more forgiving club and miss hit it slightly. Personally I have played blades and now SGI clubs, as I have gotten older I like the trajectory and flight I get with the game improvement club, plus the forgiveness in the longer clubs.  From 8 iron down I could go either way.  

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Odyssey Pro #1 black
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