Should I be playing from the White tees? I prefer Blue tees. What do you guys play?

[Mr. Bean]

54 minutes ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

 

I assume punch-outs from deep trouble go down in the stats as a missed green, so if a player is behind a tree from 95 its recorded?

 

 

Also approaches from thick rough are counted.

 

I would be curious to know what are the percentages from the fairway under 100 and 75 yds. It just sounds peculiar that a professional golfer earning a lot of money would miss the green in 11% of the cases closer than 75 yds. Of course one needs to take into consideration the fact that the greens are just slightly more difficult to keep the ball on than for us hackers and it is not once or twice the ball simply spins off the green after otherwise a perfect shot, and that also counts as a missed green.

[James the Hogan Fan]

1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

Agreed. But with a "punch out" he's not trying to miss the green. He's got no other realistic choice. Then again,,,,,,,,,,

 

It appears Fairway was correct about Billy Casper. That was 60 years ago though.

 

Strangely enough I was at the US Open in the mid 70s when Irwin won and spent some time at that very same 3rd green Casper laid up on. Incredibly unfair that day. Pin was on the back shelf, maybe 5 yards deep. The first 25 yards or so of green was slightly uphill, then a somewhat severe slope up to that back shelf.

 

Can't tell you how many times balls hit the front of that green, rolled not quite up that slope and came right back to the front of that geen.

 

OR made it up that slope with a bit too much speed and rolled off the back leaving a terrifying chip that, if hit a touch too hard ended up right back on the front of the green and needing to come back up that slope again. MANY shots lost on that hole that day.

 

 

Now I "confess" that when it was said that sometimes guys miss the green on purpose" I was thinking in terms of a relatively straight forward, CLEAR shot either from the fairway. Or the rough. 

 

I wasn't thinking in terms of through or from behind trees where a player is trying to put it in a great position for a fairly simple chip rather than taking a dangerous shot with a high probability of a very poor result by trying to put it on the green.

 

So I guess in that situation I CAN see the player "missing the green on purpose". 👍

 

Found this interesting quote from 2019:

 

"Phil Mickelson, a five-time winner of the AT&T Pebble Beach Pro-Am, said in 2010 that there were several greens he’d miss intentionally.

 

“You cannot chip downhill, especially out of the rough with these greens,” he said. “(The greens) are so small and so hard that there are a couple that are virtually impossible to keep the ball on the surface.”"

 

https://www.pgatour.com/news/2019/06/10/nine-things-to-know-pebble-beach-2019-us-open.html

 

Who knew?

[hybrid25]

I do know this, too many golfers are playing from further back than they should. Their swings are pathetic and results are poor.

[Carl Spackler3]

Four pages of responses I did not read,I’m hoping someone said, play what you want as long as it doesn’t delay one more minute than necessary😏

[Mr. Bean]

5 hours ago, Carl Spackler3 said:

Four pages of responses I did not read,I’m hoping someone said, play what you want as long as it doesn’t delay one more minute than necessary😏

Someone did say that.

[Pepperturbo]

Probably older that most here, at 70.  Which tees I play depends on who I am playing with, course rating and yardage.  I play yardages out to 6600+ and thankfully, still hit the ball pretty good. 

 

I can't tell anyone what tee's they should play as it's each persons choice.  If you feel good playing blue tee yardages, can keep up and cover forced carry yardages, I see no reason to say different.  Do what you feel is right, and play well...  What you don't want to do is let others dictate to you.

 

I played a really changing course last weekend with some hefty blind forced carry's.  My buddy wanted to play White tees 6400+.  I wanted Blue but played white with him.  One Par 5 had blind 220 to cover, another Par 5 had 212 to cover to fairway edge.  I hadn't played that course in a long time so ball positioning was off so score wasn't my best, but I am expecting another crack at it soon.  I am going for my age.  LOL I am afraid father time will get me closer to that accomplishment than my skill.... LOL

Edited November 19, 2020 by Pepperturbo

[hybrid25]

4 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

 

I can't tell anyone what tee's they should play as it's each persons choice.  If you can keep up and cover forced carry yardages.  What you don't want to do is let others dictate to you. 

Well you sort of are telling others what they should be doing and sort of dictating that. That's not a problem with me at all, I agree, the key components are keeping play up and being fair on yourself with the distances you choose.

[rogolf]

5 hours ago, Mr. Bean said:

Someone did say that.

At least once!!

[DJohnson6]

Play what you want.  Enjoy yourself.  PLEASE DO NOT slow anyone down.

[Pepperturbo]

20 hours ago, hybrid25 said:

Well you sort of are telling others what they should be doing and sort of dictating that. That's not a problem with me at all, I agree, the key components are keeping play up and being fair on yourself with the distances you choose.

Responding to a question is NOT dictating.

 

My words: I can't tell anyone what tee's they should play as it's each persons choice.  If you feel good playing blue tee yardages, can keep up and cover forced carry yardages, I see no reason to say different.  Do what you feel is right, and play well... 

 

If I was dictating, words like those in bold would not be used.  My choice of words would be emphatic, without question or concern; like when I broadcast an email to all staff about a change that must be adhered to, regardless; that's me dictating.    Dictating typically doesn't have variables or options, or qualifier phrases.  IMO if I was dictating I'd say you must keep up with pace of play, regardless.  Dictating; you can NOT bump the ball during golf.

[wkndhckr]

On 11/1/2020 at 9:55 AM, SecondandGoal said:

 

So 99% of the golfers worldwide should play from the reds all the time for their whole golfing career?

Shooting par is a generally unobtainable goal for most golfers. Way beyond what the USGA recommends for tees played by handicap.

Agreed. That is ridiculous. The rule is getting in the hole at par but it should be more like getting to the green in reg. This helps eliminate the guys searching for their ball 30 yards off the tee in the woods or hitting the second shot from the red tees. Heck there is no shame in teeing off from the middle of the fairway. My home course has green tees that are usually 3 wood from every green.

[Sorg67]

On 10/19/2020 at 4:04 PM, Augster said:

Move up to the front tee box. Play until you’re shooting par or better 1/5 rounds. Then move back a box. Rinse and repeat. 

I like this idea in principle but I would make the benchmark breaking 80 regularly rather than par.

[BMC]

I'm a 7 hdcp and fairly short off the tee.  I play the tees that put me in the vicinity of the longer hitters drives.  I don't want to be 30 yards behind on driving holes.  I can play to my hdcp from most tee boxes.

[denkea]

7 minutes ago, BMC said:

I'm a 7 hdcp and fairly short off the tee.  I play the tees that put me in the vicinity of the longer hitters drives.  I don't want to be 30 yards behind on driving holes.  I can play to my hdcp from most tee boxes.

That's exactly why I play the tee boxes I do.  Recently played with a guy that played two tee boxes back of the ones I play.  He hit a good drive as did I.  We were both the same distance from the green 10 yards apart in the fairway.  He hit a 7 iron.  I hit a 7 wood.  LOL.  

[bladehunter]

Played yesterday on a busy course. We were behind a group of 40-50 something year old  guys.  And they stunk.  But. Not entirety.  Part of their issue was playing from  the tips. If they played up at least they’d be far enough head that we couldn’t talk to them while they hit their second and third shots. 😂.   They hit driver on every dang hole.  And not one of them could hit driver remotely well.    For the life of me I cannot understand why you’d do that to yourself? But it’s common.  215 driver does not equal the back tees. 215 is A 4/5 iron for those  who play the back tees. 

[vandyfan]

This is a personal favorite discussion in golf and one that I like to see play out on message boards. I agree with the previous posters that talk about "earning your way back." If you are remotely serious about golf then I would hope it would be understood that distance is only part of the equation. People that post these ridiculous "if you hit your driver X distance you should play Y tees" charts or equations, I'm sorry, it's like you haven't played golf before. That would be, in my mind, equivalent to saying "if you weigh X you should bench press Y weight." Which of course isn't true. If you can hit the ball 275 yards but in all directions and you go play Harbour Town from the tips you are going to have a miserable day. Period. 

 

Distance is important but so is skill and your total game. If you can hit the ball far but you are inaccurate and have a terrible wedge game, playing shorter will allow you to hit an iron off the tee and then get some pressure practice with your wedges. For me, who is not by any means a great or even good golfer, playing from the front tees helped me get comfortable with having a lot of birdie putts and was a new type of pressure. Also exposed my lack of precision from 75-45 yards. 

 

Finally, yes people should be allowed to do what they want within reason and the rules on a golf course. But if you are asking me, a person that plays A LOT of public, municipal golf, I see a ton of guys bitching and not having a good time and I would chalk that up to (1) lack of practice and/or lessons (2) unreasonable expectations based on #1 (3) playing from the "mens" tees when they are 20+ hdcps. What other sport works like this? Would someone who never runs signup for a race and say "I'm going to run the marathon distance" instead of the 5k distance because that is too short? I mean maybe but that person is a fool. 

[rogolf]

Another issue is what the player finds satisfying in a round of golf.  For some players, it is the satisfaction of shooting a good score.  But that seems to have lessened in importance, being replaced by how far they can hit a driver once or twice a round.  Spending $500 and hours of ineffective practice on a club that is used 14 times a round brings, imo, very minor satisfaction or purpose to a round of golf. 

Shooting 120 from the tips, just to say you played the tips, seems goofy.

[bladehunter]

52 minutes ago, rogolf said:

Another issue is what the player finds satisfying in a round of golf.  For some players, it is the satisfaction of shooting a good score.  But that seems to have lessened in importance, being replaced by how far they can hit a driver once or twice a round.  Spending $500 and hours of ineffective practice on a club that is used 14 times a round brings, imo, very minor satisfaction or purpose to a round of golf. 

Shooting 120 from the tips, just to say you played the tips, seems goofy.

Very good point.  I guess if a guy spends $1500 a year trying drivers. He’s morally obligated to hit it as often as possible! 😂

[nsxguy]

I'd forgotten all about this thread. Apparently Mr. B never got to run his test.

 

As for myself and the title subject, I feel, that assuming I'm playing well and hitting really good shots, I should be using all the same clubs the pros are using even though I'm nowhere near their level. Then I'm playing the "correct" tees.

 

Assuming a decent-to-good tee ball there should be a reasonable mix of clubs into greens, conditions dependent of course.

 

The occasional 3 or 4 hybrid to a green, the occasional 6 or 7 iron to a green but most greens I should be hitting 8-wedge with the occasional SW/LW to a green.

 

Unless there's something wrong (IMO of course) with the course design, if I'm hitting 4 iron or more into all the par 3s, I'm playing it too long. Similar for the par 5s. If I can't reach any of them in 2 I'm playing from too far back.

[Nard_S]

I've never seen a longish hitter 260 yard on up, shoot 100. Does not happen. Seen them do 90. That guy can play from back tee anyway. The #5i multiple, which is now the #6i multiple of 36X that yardage is a solid guideline. Index is not. The USGA agrees that's why course rating changes between tee boxes.

[vandyfan]

9 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

I've never seen a longish hitter 260 yard on up, shoot 100. Does not happen.

 

In my experience this can and does happen. And I would posit there are people who can hit their best drive 260+ but also will hit 3-4 drivers that pop straight up or are topped etc. 

 

10 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

The #5i multiple, which is now the #6i multiple of 36X that yardage is a solid guideline. Index is not. The USGA agrees that's why course rating changes between tee boxes.

 

I have read the above quote multiple times and I don't understand what you are saying (this could be a ME problem). Courses are harder the longer they are right? Thus the course rating is higher from farther back. Like the same par 3 from 210 yds is always going to be harder than from 170 yds due to dispersion patterns, etc. So why does that mean the 36x yardage guideline is solid? Is that because length is the primary determinant of challenge and thus if you can hit it farther it makes the game easier? All things being equal yes but what I am saying is someone who hits it a mile but has little skill is going to have a VERY wide dispersion pattern. On a course with OB or trees on both sides of most of the holes is going to get crushed. Thus ignoring index (i.e. skill) and focusing entirely on distance seems silly to me. 

[Nard_S]

10 minutes ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

In my experience this can and does happen. And I would posit there are people who can hit their best drive 260+ but also will hit 3-4 drivers that pop straight up or are topped etc. 

 When 260 yards is low end, even a bit of miss, not when it's a hero shot. I wrote "260 yard on up"

 

12 minutes ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

So why does that mean the 36x yardage guideline is solid?

It's been an industry standard for decades. The carry average of a 27-29 degree iron answers tee box choice better than both driving distance or index. They stopped talking about it when the whole "tee it forward" craze came about. That was solely driven on pace of play issue and nothing else. Now it's, "if you can't break 80, don't move back". It's silly & disingenuous. There's low index guys that cannot drive more than 230. Should they be forced to move back? Of course not. Or guy who plays 12X a year, can hit it long, his index is short changed by reps not approach distance. He might shoot lower from forward tee but his index will not drop as easily from there either . There's "hero" guy who can bomb it with big dog but goes fat sally with #8i. A 28* club will reveal truth. It's a better indicator.

[rogolf]

49 minutes ago, blackbdmillsaps said:

 

In my experience this can and does happen. And I would posit there are people who can hit their best drive 260+ but also will hit 3-4 drivers that pop straight up or are topped etc. 

 

 

I have read the above quote multiple times and I don't understand what you are saying (this could be a ME problem). Courses are harder the longer they are right? Thus the course rating is higher from farther back. Like the same par 3 from 210 yds is always going to be harder than from 170 yds due to dispersion patterns, etc. So why does that mean the 36x yardage guideline is solid? Is that because length is the primary determinant of challenge and thus if you can hit it farther it makes the game easier? All things being equal yes but what I am saying is someone who hits it a mile but has little skill is going to have a VERY wide dispersion pattern. On a course with OB or trees on both sides of most of the holes is going to get crushed. Thus ignoring index (i.e. skill) and focusing entirely on distance seems silly to me. 

Totally agree.  I've seen lots of players who can hit one drive per day 260 yards shoot well over 100.  The other tee shots with that $500 club are left, right and/or much shorter.  As someone once said, "the woods are full of supposedly long hitters."

 I choose to play a course length which gives me a reasonable chance to score between 74-82, and that length is 6150-6350 yards.

[rogolf]

3 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

 When 260 yards is low end, even a bit of miss, not when it's a hero shot. I wrote "260 yard on up"

 

It's been an industry standard for decades. The carry average of a 27-29 degree iron answers tee box choice better than both driving distance or index. They stopped talking about it when the whole "tee it forward" craze came about. That was solely driven on pace of play issue and nothing else. Now it's, "if you can't break 80, don't move back". It's silly & disingenuous. There's low index guys that cannot drive more than 230. Should they be forced to move back? Of course not. Or guy who plays 12X a year, can hit it long, his index is short changed by reps not approach distance. He might shoot lower from forward tee but his index will not drop as easily from there either . There's "hero" guy who can bomb it with big dog but goes fat sally with #8i. A 28* club will reveal truth. It's a better indicator.

Yet, imo, it's not a valid indicator at all, nor is any other simple multiplication tool based on a single distance parameter and that ignores the strengths and weaknesses of a player's overall game and other conditions, such as course elevation, firmness, size, speed and contours of greens etc.

I've never discovered anyone who used 36x times anything to determine which tees to use.  More often it's based on their ego's perception of their game.

[Argonne69]

The 36* rule of thumb is just that, a rule of thumb. It's a good starting point. If the player is fairly accurate, then sure, play it. If they're honest with themselves, and wild off the tee, then move up. If the course is firm and fast, then by all means move back. 

 

I use the 36x rule all the time. Pros, both men and women, play at 36x. The average LPGA player hits her 5 iron 180. That's 6480 yds as a starting point. They'll play shorter at sea level, and longer in the majors, but 6400 to 6500 yds is typical. The average PGA pro hits a 5 iron 205, which is 7,380 yds.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2021 by Argonne69

[Pepperturbo]

7 hours ago, bladehunter said:

For the life of me I cannot understand why you’d do that to yourself? But it’s common.  215 driver does not equal the back tees. 215 is A 4/5 iron for those  who play the back tees. 

Well, we don't all think alike.  If I walked up to you and said I am 70yrs old and heading to the back (back to me is max 6800) tees, you'd probably have similar reaction.   Thankfully, I still have a game that surprises a lot of people. 

 

But to your point, trying to understand the motives of people that have pizzz poor judgement, on top of little or no skill, is a total waste of time. LOL  As long as their choices don't affect others, I don't bother with them. 

 

Fun generalization; I've seen that poor judgement by alleged adults too many times.  There's an old sayin that I've used many times over the years during exec interviewing process: Play 18 holes with someone, you'll learn how they act and make decisions when facing difficult challenges. 

[klebs01]

1 hour ago, Pepperturbo said:

Well, we don't all think alike.  If I walked up to you and said I am 70yrs old and heading to the back (back to me is max 6800) tees, you'd probably have similar reaction.   Thankfully, I still have a game that surprises a lot of people. 

 

But to your point, trying to understand the motives of people that have pizzz poor judgement, on top of little or no skill, is a total waste of time. LOL  As long as their choices don't affect others, I don't bother with them. 

 

Fun generalization; I've seen that poor judgement by alleged adults too many times.  There's an old sayin that I've used many times over the years during exec interviewing process: Play 18 holes with someone, you'll learn how they act and make decisions when facing difficult challenges. 

Are you arranging a money game or judging someone on a casual round? Not sure you get much correct judgement on a casual round. What’s the difference between 78 and 82? I would rather go for every par 5 in 2 and drivable 4. Probably firing at pins or playing bank shots off slopes. Eagles and fun shots produce better memories than another 78. 

[chisag]

4 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

The 36* rule of thumb is just that, a rule of thumb. It's a good starting point. If the player is fairly accurate, then sure, play it. If they're honest with themselves, and wild off the tee, then move up. If the course is firm and fast, then by all means move back. 

 

I use the 36x rule all the time. Pros, both men and women, play at 36x. The average LPGA player hits her 5 iron 180. That's 6480 yds as a starting point. They'll play shorter at sea level, and longer in the majors, but 6400 to 6500 yds is typical. The average PGA pro hits a 5 iron 205, which is 7,380 yds.

 

 

... It is really very simple for those that have any kind of semi consistent game. Course designers put a lot of effort into every hole and they are designed to be played a specific way or have viable options. #2 at Prairie Bluff as you know in the Chicago burbs is a short but uphill par 4, dog leg left with two bunkers guarding the corner and very deep rough on the right where most slice their drives. The green has a very deep bunker in front with the sides consisting of rough so deep you sometimes have to step on your ball to find it. The green is extremely narrow.

... The green is meant to have a short iron approach so you can clear the bunker and stop the ball on the green before the rear of the green that slopes up with thick rough leaving a very difficult chip. I hit a 2 - 4 iron depending on wind leaving me around 100 yds which is exactly how the designer meant for the hole to be played. Yet I have been paired up with guys that can't reach the dog leg with a driver, leaving a hybrid or fairway wood into the narrow green with just about zero chance of their ball staying on the green IF  they clear the bunker. I have seen many, many balls bury in the rough surrounding the bunker. Moving up one or even 2 tee boxes would allow them to play the hole they way it is meant to be played. Why make the game more difficult than it already is? 


 

[dpark]

Play whatever tees you enjoy playing as long as you can keep up with the group in front of you.

[sandpounder]

3 hours ago, chisag said:

 

 

... It is really very simple for those that have any kind of semi consistent game. Course designers put a lot of effort into every hole and they are designed to be played a specific way or have viable options. #2 at Prairie Bluff as you know in the Chicago burbs is a short but uphill par 4, dog leg left with two bunkers guarding the corner and very deep rough on the right where most slice their drives. The green has a very deep bunker in front with the sides consisting of rough so deep you sometimes have to step on your ball to find it. The green is extremely narrow.

... The green is meant to have a short iron approach so you can clear the bunker and stop the ball on the green before the rear of the green that slopes up with thick rough leaving a very difficult chip. I hit a 2 - 4 iron depending on wind leaving me around 100 yds which is exactly how the designer meant for the hole to be played. Yet I have been paired up with guys that can't reach the dog leg with a driver, leaving a hybrid or fairway wood into the narrow green with just about zero chance of their ball staying on the green IF  they clear the bunker. I have seen many, many balls bury in the rough surrounding the bunker. Moving up one or even 2 tee boxes would allow them to play the hole they way it is meant to be played. Why make the game more difficult than it already is? 


 

You don't have a 2 iron.  Please tell the truth on this forum.