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Swing down or Swing through? What's going through your mind on your downswing?


pktaske

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One of the few game-changing moments in my short golf life was when I started swinging down on the ball vs sweeping thru it. Turned the worst part of my game (irons) into my best.

 

Now I hear the mantra that to improve, I'm not supposed to be thinking about striking the ball at all but swinging like its not even there. Its been extremely hard for me to process. All my life I've been taught to keep my eye on the ball (base, foot, tennis, etc). Couple that with the success I've had thinking contact ball-then-ground makes me think I'm not getting this right. When I try not to think about the ball, I'm able to maintain distance but flight, height and accuracy go every which way.

 

Is it wrong to think about impacting the ball? Or perhaps I've interpreted this wrong. Seems like every tour pro still has their head down locked on ball position even as their arms sweep through 3 o'clock. Rorys head looks like its in a vice.

 

What's going through your mind (and eyes) on your way to and after impact?

 

 

 

Edited by pktaske
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  • pktaske changed the title to Swing down or Swing through? What's going through your mind on your downswing?

As little as possible.

 

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I think this is something personal as long as the club hits through the ball different players will have a different feel for the motion.  When I think "through the ball" I hit solid shots; the days I get to focussed on "at the ball" I play really awful golf.  It's my latest balancing act in the game of golf LOL.

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Rory keeps his head down through impact for a long time.  Then you have Henrik who lifts his head up even before impact it seems.  Both are high level tour players.  There is no set rule for impact.  Do what works for you.  For me, I'm a sweeper and have a shallow swing path in general so I make very small and thin divots naturally.  For me I swing though is to hit through it not at it. 

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In light of a recent thread that turned into a swinging-vs-hitting thread, I walked a few holes yesterday with the intention of applying [what I know to be] a pure hitting-style swing. I slowed down my back swing, and started my down swing slow at first, and everything was about hitting down through the ball hard from there. I hit some great shots, and reminded myself that this is how I'm most effective. 

 

The idea of letting the ball "get in the way" of the swing never worked consistently for me.

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26 minutes ago, KMeloney said:

I slowed down my back swing, and started my down swing slow at first, and everything was about hitting down through the ball hard from there. I hit some great shots, and reminded myself that this is how I'm most effective.

Me to a tee. Forgive pun.

Edited by pktaske
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There are some pro that turn their head early, some aren't even looking at the ball at impact.

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"Shirtsleeve" swing technique:

1. Setup: Elbows bent forearms pressed together against shaft slightly forward of center with "Hogan" "active/flexed" leg tension left foot turned out slightly and the right leg slightly farther to the right - weight mostly on balls of feet butt of left hands sits on the top of the grip with very light grip.

2. Swing - W/o disturbing weight distribution of legs and feet lower hands while doing a forward press "swing trigger" then the left upper arm takes over on the backswing, it needs to go out in front of the body then back in front of the chest as the hands trace down initially then up to over the right shoulder "Torres". The goal is to not disturb the pressure of the feet during the initial takeaway.

 

Notes:

1. Only swing thought after swing trigger - extend left arm at shirt sleeve when reaching left hand over right shoulder "Shirtsleeve technique".

2. The upper left arm move "Shirtsleeve technique" can be practiced independently without a club, sitting down for instance

3. The correct feet tension can be felt by doing very short hops on the balls of the feet then holding the same feeling of pressure on the front of the feet and then taking three practice swings with the grip very loose in order to not disturb the same pressure on the feet and on the 3rd swing actively do the "Shirtsleeve" move. From there the swing should be done within a matter of seconds to not lose the feel of the legs resisting, this way this is not a learned technique as much as it is a setup technique.

 

 

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My iron swing thought the last 4 months (some of my best iron striking ever) is to just hit the ball with the MIDDLE of the clubface, not low in the middle, but in the EXACT middle of the clubface. Only way to do that is to hit down on it some with a bit of de-lofted hands.

 

I'm sticking with it until my results say I shouldn't!

 

 

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My best downswings are merely a consequence of the backswing, which is a naturally pulling motion (like Bobby Jones recommended) because I have pushed the parts back that pull on the downswing. Also, the pushing back in the downswing naturally loads the legs. The right hand hits late as Bobby Jones recommended as well. It is not a contrived nor manipulated nor mechanical nor much less a calculated motion but a natural outcome.

Edited by chipa

"Shirtsleeve" swing technique:

1. Setup: Elbows bent forearms pressed together against shaft slightly forward of center with "Hogan" "active/flexed" leg tension left foot turned out slightly and the right leg slightly farther to the right - weight mostly on balls of feet butt of left hands sits on the top of the grip with very light grip.

2. Swing - W/o disturbing weight distribution of legs and feet lower hands while doing a forward press "swing trigger" then the left upper arm takes over on the backswing, it needs to go out in front of the body then back in front of the chest as the hands trace down initially then up to over the right shoulder "Torres". The goal is to not disturb the pressure of the feet during the initial takeaway.

 

Notes:

1. Only swing thought after swing trigger - extend left arm at shirt sleeve when reaching left hand over right shoulder "Shirtsleeve technique".

2. The upper left arm move "Shirtsleeve technique" can be practiced independently without a club, sitting down for instance

3. The correct feet tension can be felt by doing very short hops on the balls of the feet then holding the same feeling of pressure on the front of the feet and then taking three practice swings with the grip very loose in order to not disturb the same pressure on the feet and on the 3rd swing actively do the "Shirtsleeve" move. From there the swing should be done within a matter of seconds to not lose the feel of the legs resisting, this way this is not a learned technique as much as it is a setup technique.

 

 

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It truly is a combination of both. The mistake that players make is the act of sweeping. Very different between woods and irons. Sweeping happens with your woods and driver while a descending blow happens on your irons and hybrids. That is why alot of people have difficulty hitting their long irons and even mid irons is because they try and sweep the ball versus allowing the point you put a swing on the ball to act on it and essentially try to compress on the ball. It is equally important when hitting mid to short irons as well. The main contact on the ball depends on where in your swing arc that club face makes contact. Putting the swing on the ball and having it impact the face at a different point in your golf swing is what you are after when your goal is hitting it solid. That is why to me, you ultimately have to find where the bottom of your swing arc is and seeing how the ball position of the ball allows for this compression. The shorter irons, you will have the ball back in your stance and really compacting the ball on impact. That is why you are looking for a divot that starts ahead of your ball on your shorter to mid irons . As you get to the longer irons, the ball position starts to head towards your front foot and more towards the middle of your stance if not still slight back of the middle of your stance. Hitting long irons still requires some compression on the ball and would still require you to make contact with it on the descending part of the swing. Thus with the longer irons, you tend to have an impact divot that usually will be more right underneath the ball but yet still finishing ahead of it. When you get to woods i.e 5 wood, 3 wood, the contact on the ball should be towards the bottom of your swing arc and thus the "sweeping" motion on the ball is what people talk about. The driver on the other hand is more towards the left side of your stance and on the upward portion of your swing arc. So with all that in mind, "swinging through the ball" means that your hand position has to meet certain criteria in order for the shot to be complete and not get a "bail out" swing also known as trying to help the ball up. That too is why players dont make solid contact. Example is hitting a Pw which is positioned back in your stance and you are coming down on it in regards to your swing arc. The hands have to remain in front of the ball through out the swing from start of down swing into impact and through to finish . An opposite visual of this is the driver where the ball is in front and the club makes contact on the ball on the upward portion of the swing and the release of the ball has the hands right in line at impact if not slightly behind the ball. If you can capture these two visuals and understand how swinging down on the ball and swinging through the ball both come into play then you will realize what action needs to happen on both depending on which club you have in your hands.  Hope that helps. 

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I start the downswing with the intent to have the most speed starting a few feet behind the ball and ending a few feet after it.

 

Am I actually controlling my body to do that? Heck no. It's the thought/feel I have to not yank down from the top and allows me to swing through the ball and maintain speed and not be ball-focused. 

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In theory you’re supposed to physically do both.

 

If you have to think swing down or swing through, there are Likely Mechanical issues In your swing you need to resolve.

 

Otherwise, you’re likely swinging down or swinging through the wrong way and it’s contrived.

All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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Like Monte says: Down AND Through. But I'm not thinking anything except how I want to deliver the club to the ball (e.g., Am I hitting a low draw, or a high straight shot, for instance).

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8 minutes ago, Obee said:

Like Monte says: Down AND Through. But I'm not thinking anything except how I want to deliver the club to the ball (e.g., Am I hitting a low draw, or a high straight shot, for instance).

 

In Monte's spirit there is room for expansion here. Away from the target, down & out, through, up & back in.... if you have a good turn.

 

 

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I don't exactly think about it in these terms but I swing with the intention of my swing bottoming out in front of the ball so I suppose through it is more accurate. I like to take a divot but I know if I make an especially deep one I've done something wrong. 

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1 hour ago, Lefthook said:

 

In Monte's spirit there is room for expansion here. Away from the target, down & out, through, up & back in.... if you have a good turn.

 

 

I agree, I was just using the phrases previously mentioned. 

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All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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