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As the title says Im lacking ballspeed on driver and i dont know what the culprit is.

 

Swing my 6iron (30degree) about 90mph and get about 120 ball speed.

 

Driver swing ave is about 105, good strikes and only get 145 ballspeed. Driver head is rogue sub zero, use the 70g evenflow green stiff flex

 

Launch angle and strike location are fine. Speeds measured with Mevo and are consistent.

 

Not sure what to look at.

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most guys I see FWIW are too steep with a driver and lose efficiency big time.  They have not learned to stay behind the ball and release the arms and body properly around their post (front leg)

Smash factor could be the culprit. What about AoA and spin? 

Smash is 1.38, which is a tad low. With 105 ss, i would like to see 150+. Three possible explanations, something is wrong with your driver- hairline crack or something, your dplane is large (AOA very

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47 minutes ago, copperjeff said:

As the title says Im lacking ballspeed on driver and i dont know what the culprit is.

 

Swing my 6iron (30degree) about 90mph and get about 120 ball speed.

 

Driver swing ave is about 105, good strikes and only get 145 ballspeed. Driver head is rogue sub zero, use the 70g evenflow green stiff flex

 

Launch angle and strike location are fine. Speeds measured with Mevo and are consistent.

 

Not sure what to look at.

 

How far are you hitting it and have you tried another monitor? I will say you 6 iron speed club head speed and driver speed don't line up which to me means your monitor isn't reading right. PGA tour average driver 113 and 92 6 iron according to trackman. Would be odd for a 105 driver to be 90 iron. I would think you would be more around 85.

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1 minute ago, Jc0 said:

 

How far are you hitting it and have you tried another monitor? I will say you 6 iron speed club head speed and driver speed don't line up which to me means your monitor isn't reading right. PGA tour average driver 113 and 92 6 iron according to trackman. Would be odd for a 105 driver to be 90 iron. I would think you would be more around 85.

 

Yes 6 iron average is 92, but 7iron average is 90, and my ball speed is similar there. Also my ball speed and swing speed on 4iron are where i would expect.

 

Launch spin and carry are all within expexcted tolerances between monitor and on course yardages.

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3 hours ago, copperjeff said:

As the title says Im lacking ballspeed on driver and i dont know what the culprit is.

 

Swing my 6iron (30degree) about 90mph and get about 120 ball speed.

 

Driver swing ave is about 105, good strikes and only get 145 ballspeed. Driver head is rogue sub zero, use the 70g evenflow green stiff flex

 

Launch angle and strike location are fine. Speeds measured with Mevo and are consistent.

 

Not sure what to look at.

What is your smash factor?

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2 hours ago, andrewk8 said:

I am in the same boat - driver average swing speed is 112 and am consistent on my striking with it, but I seem to barely crack 160 mph ballspeed

 

Driver head is SIM 10.5 with the tensei ck pro orange 70TX.  Love this combo for accuracy's sake but ballspeed lacks a bit.

what is your smash factor? Instead of swinging the club as hard as you can, try to hit the center of the face. I don't mean this condescendingly. 

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Standard Mevo tends to read a bit high on head speed from my experience. More apt to reading high than reading low. 

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Smash is 1.38, which is a tad low. With 105 ss, i would like to see 150+. Three possible explanations, something is wrong with your driver- hairline crack or something, your dplane is large (AOA very negative will adding loft or flipping hands), or your mevo is a little off. Does your mevo give spin rates? What is it? That will tell us a bit about dplane.

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3 hours ago, copperjeff said:

As the title says Im lacking ballspeed on driver and i dont know what the culprit is.

 

Swing my 6iron (30degree) about 90mph and get about 120 ball speed.

 

Driver swing ave is about 105, good strikes and only get 145 ballspeed. Driver head is rogue sub zero, use the 70g evenflow green stiff flex

 

Launch angle and strike location are fine. Speeds measured with Mevo and are consistent.

 

Not sure what to look at.

Hey Copper,

 

Sorry didnt complete read through all the post.

 

but my thoughts

TrackMan PGA Tour Averages Stats

PGA Tour Trackman smash factor averages 

 

 

6iron - smash is 1.38

 

Your 90mph x 1.38 = 124mph ball speeds,  so you stating  120mph, a 4 mph drop off is pretty significant.

 

With that you stated in another post 92mph 6iron,  = 124.9mph again you are lacking 4-5mph average in ball speed.

 

 

now to your driver,

 

105mph Swing speed  X 1.5smash = 157.5 ball speeds,  you getting 145mph is a 10mph loss,

 

Your loss is showing a smash factor of 1.38.  Which is REALLY low.  Items to consider.

 

1.38 smash with a driver is REALLY bad,  usually on the lows are 1.42-1.45 on less then optimal to some miss hits,  but 1.38 is a total miss hit.

 

how do you actually feel about your quality of strikes? Are they that bad?

 

If not,  then much like the cost affordable Launch monitors, the struggle is that some of these LM struggle to track the club head consistently and the club head speed sometimes is a little wacky.

 

MY ES14 struggles some times, so does my old SC100.

 

 

The next question would be are the balls real balls or are they Yellow range limited balls?

 

Yellow balls I have noticed give between a 5 to 10% reduction in ball speed,  

 

Example,  100mph swing speed X 1.5 smash = 150mph ball speed,

 

150mph ball speed with real balls, 135mph to 142.5mph potential drop offs with Range balls.

 

 

Your Specific possible example, 105swing speed,  x 1.5 = 157. 

5% drop is 7mph or 150mph on the low

10% drop is 15.7 or 141.3 on the extreme low with really crappy balls

 

 

 

 

Outside of that...... Your ball striking (Swing/lessons) and club setup is the next thing,  to look at 

 

 

 

 

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I appreciate the replies everyone. 

 

Even center face contact is giving me poor smash. 

 

I hesitate to compare the trackman smash to mine due to not knowing the loft of clubs compared. 

 

Someone brought up AoA, not sure what it is. But could be the culprit. Spin doesnt seem bad, nor launch angle, but ill try putting a little different angle on it, see if that helps.

 

Not much else makes sense.

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9 minutes ago, taylorx300 said:

Ball speed = club HS x smash.

 

 

Actually Smash = ball speed / club head speed.

 

It's the smash factor that is calculated,,,,,,,

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1 hour ago, copperjeff said:

I appreciate the replies everyone. 

 

Even center face contact is giving me poor smash. 

 

I hesitate to compare the trackman smash to mine due to not knowing the loft of clubs compared. 

 

Someone brought up AoA, not sure what it is. But could be the culprit. Spin doesnt seem bad, nor launch angle, but ill try putting a little different angle on it, see if that helps.

 

Not much else makes sense.

AOA- Angle of attack.

here is “dplane”

image.png.cb2c65f8335435b43ab109911798c49d.png

 

the black line is the angle of attack, the red line is loft delivered. The angle is the dplane. The smaller this angle (red line and black line closer together, the more smash factor -which is just efficiency you will get

 

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8 hours ago, copperjeff said:

As the title says Im lacking ballspeed on driver and i dont know what the culprit is.

 

Swing my 6iron (30degree) about 90mph and get about 120 ball speed.

 

Driver swing ave is about 105, good strikes and only get 145 ballspeed. Driver head is rogue sub zero, use the 70g evenflow green stiff flex

 

Launch angle and strike location are fine. Speeds measured with Mevo and are consistent.

 

Not sure what to look at.

 

My young pal exactice can get a little wordy sometimes. :classic_biggrin:

 

But as he said, 145/105=1.38 a very poor smash factor. Mid 140s is a good one.

 

Either you're not striking it as well as you think, or as Red said, the head could be cracked, or as someone else said the Mevo could be suspect.

 

That said, if that Evenflow shaft is the stock silver one with the green lettering I don't think it's the best they have. You might also be better suited to a "S" rather than the "X" (but I don't think that is much of an issue).

 

Get into a golf shop and test it out and see if the results agree. Note launch angles and spin rates.

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8 hours ago, andrewk8 said:

I am in the same boat - driver average swing speed is 112 and am consistent on my striking with it, but I seem to barely crack 160 mph ballspeed

 

Driver head is SIM 10.5 with the tensei ck pro orange 70TX.  Love this combo for accuracy's sake but ballspeed lacks a bit.

 

Angle of Attack issue ? Smash 1.43. Better than the OP but still kind of low. Perhaps hitting with a descending blow ?

 

Got spin rates ? Launch angle ?

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6 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Angle of Attack issue ? Smash 1.43. Better than the OP but still kind of low. Perhaps hitting with a descending blow ?

 

Got spin rates ? Launch angle ?

Have to be careful as we need to know what launch monitor is being used. Trackman reads smash pretty high, sometimes above 1.5. Gcquad reads a little lower and maxes out at about 1.45, ive seen videos of matt from txg crushing drives 340 with smash of 1.38. Its because it inflates or measures  clubhead speed differently. Gc2 is the most tricky as its smash is just a default number and should be ignored.

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6 minutes ago, Red4282 said:

Have to be careful as we need to know what launch monitor is being used. Trackman reads smash pretty high, sometimes above 1.5. Gcquad reads a little lower and maxes out at about 1.45, ive seen videos of matt from txg crushing drives 340 with smash of 1.38. Its because it inflates or measures  clubhead speed differently. Gc2 is the most tricky as its smash is just a default number and should be ignored.

I have noticed Trackman higher on drivers at Ping and Titleist fittings ... and as said GC quad too low on drivers 


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11 minutes ago, cardoustie said:

I have noticed Trackman higher on drivers at Ping and Titleist fittings ... and as said GC quad too low on drivers 

Its because trackman measures from behind and gets the center of the club, where gcquad measures from the side and gets the toe which is traveling faster than the rest of the club

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8 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Its because trackman measures from behind and gets the center of the club, where gcquad measures from the side and gets the toe which is traveling faster than the rest of the club


Trackman capture club speed at the geometrical center of the club head.
We say ideal is 1.50, but 1.53 even 1.54 is possible

CG-Quad capture club speed at the actual impact position on the head.
Theoretical max on legal heads is about 1.495, but above 1.46 is hardly ever seen.

Its NO fixed conversion ratios here, we need to know actual impact position to do the math.

Trackmans smash factor is a expression of the players "efficiency"
CG Quad express Power transfer ratio as a product of ball speed / actual club speed.

One like the mother, other the daughter.
As a club fitter i prefer the Trackman way

This is a illustration of how Trackman worksimage.png.10f190041e3640b5ab5cf6fa7c014d72.png
 

Edited by Howard_Jones
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7 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

My young pal exactice can get a little wordy sometimes. :classic_biggrin:

 

But as he said, 145/105=1.38 a very poor smash factor. Mid 140s is a good one.

 

Either you're not striking it as well as you think, or as Red said, the head could be cracked, or as someone else said the Mevo could be suspect.

 

That said, if that Evenflow shaft is the stock silver one with the green lettering I don't think it's the best they have. You might also be better suited to a "S" rather than the "X" (but I don't think that is much of an issue).

 

Get into a golf shop and test it out and see if the results agree. Note launch angles and spin rates.

Appreciate the response, i know the smash is terrible. I use powder spray to check impact location so i know for certain when i have center contact. 

 

The shaft is a S flex not the X flex, and is the older model evenflow, the blueish green one.

 

I dont usually slice, but have been hitting into a net so might have to check ball flight. 

 

I know everyone has questioned the mevo accuracy but literally every other club the numbers seem fine.

 

AoA or face to path seem like the culprits since everything else is checking out. Ill work on it and see what happens.

 

 

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All I can say from personal fittings is I can get dead accurate iron carry readings off of a GC quad ...

 

And dead accurate driver readings off of Trackman.  I can put up 1.5 smash on driver all day (108 speed and 162 ball speed) at Titleist and Ping Canada head offices (I have posted samples on this site before and recently) .. no chance on GCQ with driver, always LOW

 

Based upon on course experiences of course

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most guys I see FWIW are too steep with a driver and lose efficiency big time.  They have not learned to stay behind the ball and release the arms and body properly around their post (front leg)

 

As Johnny Miller has said for eons, driver and iron swings are different, and generally players (even PGA Tour level) are good with one or the other and it is rare to be awesome with both 

 

Iron play for example ... Mickelson and JM Olazabal

 

 

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1 hour ago, cardoustie said:

most guys I see FWIW are too steep with a driver and lose efficiency big time.  They have not learned to stay behind the ball and release the arms and body properly around their post (front leg)

 

As Johnny Miller has said for eons, driver and iron swings are different, and generally players (even PGA Tour level) are good with one or the other and it is rare to be awesome with both 

 

Iron play for example ... Mickelson and JM Olazabal

 

 

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13 hours ago, Red4282 said:

Have to be careful as we need to know what launch monitor is being used. Trackman reads smash pretty high, sometimes above 1.5. Gcquad reads a little lower and maxes out at about 1.45, ive seen videos of matt from txg crushing drives 340 with smash of 1.38. Its because it inflates or measures  clubhead speed differently. Gc2 is the most tricky as its smash is just a default number and should be ignored.

 

I'm not technical enough to know the differences in the various LMs. The GC LM always drove me crazy because of the constant 1.47 (maybe older machines as the current ones aren't even showing SF - or maybe the stores can dictate which measurements show on the screen).

 

I could hit a screaming line drive off the bottom of the driver, 8* launch and 4000 spin and the SF would show as 1.47. Or hit a 7 iron and the SF would be 1.47. :classic_laugh:

 

But somehow all these machines seem to get the "right/same" distances. And the launch and spin seems to be right - teed up balls anyway. Spin doesn't get calculated very well off the artificial turf - but distance still seems to be right somehow. :classic_blink:

 

I figure the GC only measures ball speed, launch, spin and "off axis" and extrapolates other numbers from that, similar to the flightscope.com web simulator. After all, does one really care what one's swing speed is ? Or even smash factor (when one has other ways of detecting center strikes) ?

 

I was hitting a few 9 irons yesterday in a LM just yesterday. Once warmed up I was hitting the center fairly often and getting right around 135 for each of them. Except for my normal miss slightly to the right they were all very straight (and I've been suffering from a big hook lately).

 

So I pick up a matching 7 iron, closed my stance, aimed way right and swung hard from the inside with a severely closed face-to-path. LM showed almost no right-to-left, certainly nothing drastic and, in fact, on a couple, showed a little right-right. Point is there was something not quite right about that machine. I'll probably try the next one over again sometime soon. Just for kicks. idk.gif.1268051dd7309e442d82a1ab870cbaf4

 

 

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4 hours ago, copperjeff said:

Appreciate the response, i know the smash is terrible. I use powder spray to check impact location so i know for certain when i have center contact. 

 

The shaft is a S flex not the X flex, and is the older model evenflow, the blueish green one.

 

I dont usually slice, but have been hitting into a net so might have to check ball flight. 

 

I know everyone has questioned the mevo accuracy but literally every other club the numbers seem fine.

 

AoA or face to path seem like the culprits since everything else is checking out. Ill work on it and see what happens.

 

 

 

Is there any way you can get your hands on a similar set up and see if you're getting the same SF on center strikes ?

 

 

4 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

If impact location is good and the face to path or dynamic loft isn't crazy,  low smash could be an indication of a failure of the driver face. 

 

Stuart, is there any easy way he can see if the face IS cracked ?

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28 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

Stuart, is there any easy way he can see if the face IS cracked ?

 

Sometimes it's visible on inspection but not always and it's not even always a crack.   So the only way to be sure is to do a side by side comparison with another head known to be good.

 

 

32 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I'm not technical enough to know the differences in the various LMs. The GC LM always drove me crazy because of the constant 1.47 (maybe older machines as the current ones aren't even showing SF - or maybe the stores can dictate which measurements show on the screen).

 

Sounds like GC2 without HMT.  It couldn't measure club head speed or any other club data.  So it used a fixed smash factor (based on the club you told it you were hitting) to give a club speed display.    GC2 with the HMT add on or GCQuad will actually measure club data and the smash factor will be more representative of the impact conditions.   Just realize that GC vs the radar units do things differently so can show different numbers for the same strike.   It's not that one is more accurate than the other, they are just different interpretations of what the number means.

 

 

Quote

But somehow all these machines seem to get the "right/same" distances. And the launch and spin seems to be right - teed up balls anyway. Spin doesn't get calculated very well off the artificial turf - but distance still seems to be right somehow. :classic_blink:

 

That's because you only need ball data to compute a distance, club data is 'extra' or a bonus.

 

 

Quote

I was hitting a few 9 irons yesterday in a LM just yesterday. Once warmed up I was hitting the center fairly often and getting right around 135 for each of them. Except for my normal miss slightly to the right they were all very straight (and I've been suffering from a big hook lately).

 

So I pick up a matching 7 iron, closed my stance, aimed way right and swung hard from the inside with a severely closed face-to-path. LM showed almost no right-to-left, certainly nothing drastic and, in fact, on a couple, showed a little right-right. Point is there was something not quite right about that machine. I'll probably try the next one over again sometime soon. Just for kicks. idk.gif.1268051dd7309e442d82a1ab870cbaf4

 

Hard to say anything without know which LM (make/model).   There are some out there that don't do a good job that's why it's always important to know the details of the system.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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On 10/20/2020 at 10:13 AM, copperjeff said:

As the title says Im lacking ballspeed on driver and i dont know what the culprit is.

 

Swing my 6iron (30degree) about 90mph and get about 120 ball speed.

 

Driver swing ave is about 105, good strikes and only get 145 ballspeed. Driver head is rogue sub zero, use the 70g evenflow green stiff flex

 

Launch angle and strike location are fine. Speeds measured with Mevo and are consistent.

 

Not sure what to look at.

What ball and what environment (indoor or out)

Edited by Krt22
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