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Is there any truth to the logic that balls that spin less (i.e. cheaper, lower-end balls) are easier to hit off the driver because they reduce slices or hooks?

What's In The Bag?

Srixon Z565 Driver, 4W, 4H

Ping G400 5-U

Ping Zing BeCU Putter

Hyundai Equus Alignment Sticks

Bridgestone e6, Noodle Neon, or Titleist TruSoft balls

Various trinkets, ball markers, and white wooden tees

 

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IMHO player loses more playing random balls than cheap balls.   I do be believe from experience and data that balls do behave very differently. Playing random balls will make thing much less

I've just decided to try to find a support group to help me quit posting on golf ball threads like this one.  This thing where I continually try to convince other bad golfers that they need help but w

There's a massive difference 100 yards and in. That's where the additional layers and material composition start being activated.   Players of all hadicaps will do better with premium balls.

I don't like to break the bank on golf balls. As a high single digit golfer I'm not really losing or gaining much by gaming a Pro V1. Snell & Vice offer great premium balls at a reasonable price. personally I've stuck with the Maxfli tour balls since they launched last year & I can say without a doubt sticking with this ball has helped me shoot some of my best rounds. It does everything I need it to do & I don't find it in lacking in any facet of my game.

Driver: Cobra F9 @ 11.5 Degrees

5 Wood: Cobra F8 @ 18 Degrees

Hybrid: Cobra 3-4 OS @ 20.5 degrees

Hybrid: Cobra F9 @ 24 Degrees

Irons: Callaway Apex 19's 6-SW

Wedge: Callaway Sureout 2 @ 60 degrees

Putter: PXG Closer

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9 hours ago, enfuego said:

Play with a 15 that hits irons pretty low. With a low spin velocity/distance ball he would hit greens and roll into the rough. Switched him into a Kirkland 3 piece that spins more and is still budget friendly and when he hits the green it stops in half the distance.

He should play Snell or Maxfli. Not as cheap as Kirkland, but close, and much higher quality imho. 

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1 hour ago, JohnKHawk said:

I don't like to break the bank on golf balls. As a high single digit golfer I'm not really losing or gaining much by gaming a Pro V1. Snell & Vice offer great premium balls at a reasonable price. personally I've stuck with the Maxfli tour balls since they launched last year & I can say without a doubt sticking with this ball has helped me shoot some of my best rounds. It does everything I need it to do & I don't find it in lacking in any facet of my game.

Love the Maxfli Tour X and the MTB-X but need to decide which one to stick with. What made you go with Maxfli? 

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7 hours ago, idontnoh said:

Love the Maxfli Tour X and the MTB-X but need to decide which one to stick with. What made you go with Maxfli? 

Reason one is I can usually score 2 dozen for $50 so they are priced in my wheelhouse & secondly once I made the initial purchase & played them I couldn't really find any faults with the Maxfli tours. For me they work as good as any other ball I tried. I have dabbled with other balls through the year but nothing seems to be noticeably better & now I have a certain comfort level with the Maxfli tour. Never would have expected a DSG house ball would be my "go to" ball.

Driver: Cobra F9 @ 11.5 Degrees

5 Wood: Cobra F8 @ 18 Degrees

Hybrid: Cobra 3-4 OS @ 20.5 degrees

Hybrid: Cobra F9 @ 24 Degrees

Irons: Callaway Apex 19's 6-SW

Wedge: Callaway Sureout 2 @ 60 degrees

Putter: PXG Closer

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20 hours ago, HappyGilmoresBoots said:

Is there any truth to the logic that balls that spin less (i.e. cheaper, lower-end balls) are easier to hit off the driver because they reduce slices or hooks?

 

I think the physics answer to this is that a ball that spins less will curve less.  But I think the golf answer is that there isn't a large enough difference in spin rates off the driver anymore to make that effect significant, so while price might be a good reason to buy a "low end" ball, performance just isn't.

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20 hours ago, bluedot said:

 

I think the physics answer to this is that a ball that spins less will curve less.  But I think the golf answer is that there isn't a large enough difference in spin rates off the driver anymore to make that effect significant, so while price might be a good reason to buy a "low end" ball, performance just isn't.

The answer is it depends. Backspin is also a stabilizer of flight. There is no such thing as "side spin". A high proportion of the spin is always going to be back spin which keeps the ball flying straight. You can use the a trajectory calculator to see this. Launch two balls with identical ball speed and launch angle (100MPH and 30* launch). This is not too far off where a high swing speed player might be with a 50* wedge. Give them both a spin axis of 45* (about as bad as you could ever produce on the course). Have one spin 11000 (a realistic spin rate) and one a spin rate of 6000. You'll see that the curve is basically the same. Of course, people are really more concerned with the driver. So have two shots both with 150MPH ball speed, 15* launch, and 45* spin axis. Have one 2000RPM of spin and another 3000RPM. The higher spin ball does curve more, but I doubt you'd be able to spot it on the course. It also carries shorter and rolls shorter, so it might actually end up closer to the center line.

 

Considering the difference between a high spin and low spin ball off the driver is more like 300RPM, you'll never notice a ball being straighter due to less spin.

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On 10/22/2020 at 3:41 PM, bluedot said:

 

I think the physics answer to this is that a ball that spins less will curve less.  But I think the golf answer is that there isn't a large enough difference in spin rates off the driver anymore to make that effect significant, so while price might be a good reason to buy a "low end" ball, performance just isn't.

 

6 hours ago, arbeck said:

The answer is it depends. Backspin is also a stabilizer of flight. There is no such thing as "side spin". A high proportion of the spin is always going to be back spin which keeps the ball flying straight. You can use the a trajectory calculator to see this. Launch two balls with identical ball speed and launch angle (100MPH and 30* launch). This is not too far off where a high swing speed player might be with a 50* wedge. Give them both a spin axis of 45* (about as bad as you could ever produce on the course). Have one spin 11000 (a realistic spin rate) and one a spin rate of 6000. You'll see that the curve is basically the same. Of course, people are really more concerned with the driver. So have two shots both with 150MPH ball speed, 15* launch, and 45* spin axis. Have one 2000RPM of spin and another 3000RPM. The higher spin ball does curve more, but I doubt you'd be able to spot it on the course. It also carries shorter and rolls shorter, so it might actually end up closer to the center line.

 

Considering the difference between a high spin and low spin ball off the driver is more like 300RPM, you'll never notice a ball being straighter due to less spin.

Thank you both for answering!

What's In The Bag?

Srixon Z565 Driver, 4W, 4H

Ping G400 5-U

Ping Zing BeCU Putter

Hyundai Equus Alignment Sticks

Bridgestone e6, Noodle Neon, or Titleist TruSoft balls

Various trinkets, ball markers, and white wooden tees

 

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On 10/21/2020 at 12:57 AM, Justsomeguy said:

It makes a ton of difference. All around, the premium balls don't make sacrifices or excel in one category at the expense of another.

I don't buy pro v, but I play them when I find them. They are very consistent in performance. They're long, feel good, spin well, and you can't really criticize a shortcoming.

When I buy premiums, I usually go with Srixon bc of price per performance.

Your premium tour balls, whichever manufacturer, will outperform their cheaper siblings.

Go hit a nitro side by side for a few holes. You'll outdrive the nitro, the iron will both go longer as well as stop, the pitch will feel better and spin, and the putt will roll straighter and just feel better.

Not your imagination.

 

 

I have loads of found balls.   If I buy new it is generally Wilsons.  They are usually soft off the irons which is nice, decent around greens and putt well.  I like the Fifty Elite and the Duo.  I have some Wilson matte yellow Duo's which is a nice ball.

 

I tried Cally Super Soft a $19.99 for 12 ball.  They are not bad.

 

A Pro V1x or V1, if you are a decent player, can also give you more confidence.   It is weird but if I tee up a Pro V 1x and screw up - it is me not the ball.  That confidence when you go to hit it does help you as a golfer.

 

I read an article about USA ball manufacturing facilities. There are 4. Titleist, Callyway, Bridgestone and Taylor Made.  The premium balls are made in USA.  Titleist has generations of families working their and hundreds of years of experience.

 

As you mentioned - there "consistency" in manufacturing is top notch.  I have some Titlesit Velocity that I bought new but they do not work for me.  I tried an AVX and liked it plus I like Pro V1x and even the V1. .   I want to try the current Pinnacle two models in the future.  Soft and Rush?   They are like a poor man's Titleist.  I have some older Pinnacle Exceptions that are new in a 24 ball box.  They are really nice balls.

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If you want to be consistent with your short game, and wedge shots in general you will get much more control with a urethane ball.  Hitting pitch shots with a 2 piece ball like a Callaway super soft I tend to get fliers when I don’t expect it.  Especially the rough but clean lies too.  Sometimes I’ll play these balls in the winter when it’s cold and the ground is soggy, then I regret I because there will be a couple of shots a round that jump and I end up 10 feet past where I thought I’d be.  
 

I don’t see much difference with driver, fairways or mid irons.  

I pick 14 of the following:
Ping G400
Ping G410 3, 5 and 7 wood
Ping G 400 4 hybrid
Ping G 4-U
Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 54, 58 SS
Grips NDMC +4
Odyssey Pro #1 black
Hoofer
ProV1x-mostly
ECCO Biom Hybrid 3

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Nothing will change the fact that premium tour balls were designed for elite players not the average weekend golfer (92 mph driver S/S, 20 hcp)...Nothing...

 

IMHO there is no right answer as to whether non-scratch golfers can benefit from a tour ball. It depends on many things, but a few are:

 

a) Course(s) played (firm and fast or soft and slow)

b) Type of game tee to green (long or short hitter - swing speed)

c) Type of game around the green to hole (bump and run, or pitch and check)

d) Quality of ball striking (off center hits, bad swing planes)

e) Mentality (what ball type gives you confidence)

 

As a player that enjoys playing Ionomer and Urethane balls (Pick a ball and stick with it?, no thanks...boring) I see scenario's where non-Tour balls are better choices in the A thru E mentioned above and scenario's where Tour balls could be more helpful.

 

The weird thing is there are posters on this board that are urethane die-hards that never see any scenario where a tour ball isn't best...never...like ever........But they subscribe to the "play one ball mentality" so how would they know anyway?

 

I play in my company's golf league championship this weekend and I mostly played the TourSoft or TruFeel to get there because I don't want or need spin for the courses we played. However the championship match will be played on a medium fast course so I will play the Tour B RXS or the RX.

 

Playing the firm Tour balls are miserable for me because I have too many slight mishits...Tour balls feel (and sound and perform) terribly on minor off center hits for my swing and my game. Softer Ionomer or Urethane balls are infinitely better performers....by alot!

 

Play whatever ball you want...and enjoy!

 

Best Regards   

 

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What is most important is to be consistent. When practicing I can play anything and like many the Cally SuperSoft on sale are a good deal. They are poorly named however: I would not call them soft. The difference is 80y and in, I can easily see spin differences in that ball compared to my preferred gamer which is Truvis balls, or any other top ball (ProV, TP5, Bridgestone etc...). They all are very good balls and I like when I find near new ones in the woods 🙂 

 

When I am used to the behavior of the SS, I play for more run and release on approach shots and proper nippy pitches. The Chrome I can hop and stop with any good wedge strike of my 50 for example, bring it in low under the wind with confidence. The SS not so much.

 

 

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7 hours ago, rwbloom93 said:

Nothing will change the fact that premium tour balls were designed for elite players not the average weekend golfer (92 mph driver S/S, 20 hcp)...Nothing...

 

 

Play whatever ball you want...and enjoy!

 

 

 

I agree with the last sentence 100%, and I think you can expand that from golf balls to ALL golf equipment, be it fitted clubs, or range finders, or GPS watches, or good golf shoes, or anything else.  It is, after all, a game, and there is room under the tent for all sorts of approaches to playing a game.

 

The first sentence, though, is simply not true.  Premium golf balls are designed to perform better for ANY golfer, from the average chop who only plays on the weekend, to the guys playing for the mortgage on TV, and everybody in between.  Multi-layer, urethane cover balls are just...better.  They go as far or farther off the driver, and they are significantly more consistent around the greens.  Literally, there isn't a shred of data that supports the idea than ANY golfer is better off with a two-piece surlyn golf ball, EXCEPT in terms of the cost.  And I get that; I'm a retired HS coach, so money matters.  But I try not to get money issues confused with quality issues.

 

If you can find any objective, independent study that shows that any golfer gets better performance from a two-piece surlyn golf ball, PLEASE provide the link.  Everything I've ever seen shows exactly the opposite.

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14 hours ago, bluedot said:

 

I agree with the last sentence 100%, and I think you can expand that from golf balls to ALL golf equipment, be it fitted clubs, or range finders, or GPS watches, or good golf shoes, or anything else.  It is, after all, a game, and there is room under the tent for all sorts of approaches to playing a game.

 

The first sentence, though, is simply not true.  Premium golf balls are designed to perform better for ANY golfer, from the average chop who only plays on the weekend, to the guys playing for the mortgage on TV, and everybody in between.  Multi-layer, urethane cover balls are just...better.  They go as far or farther off the driver, and they are significantly more consistent around the greens.  Literally, there isn't a shred of data that supports the idea than ANY golfer is better off with a two-piece surlyn golf ball, EXCEPT in terms of the cost.  And I get that; I'm a retired HS coach, so money matters.  But I try not to get money issues confused with quality issues.

 

If you can find any objective, independent study that shows that any golfer gets better performance from a two-piece surlyn golf ball, PLEASE provide the link.  Everything I've ever seen shows exactly the opposite.

 

I have tried a few google searches for any "study" on the matter but have not had any luck. I know many of you have mentioned the studies on the premium tour balls so could someone link or point me in the right direction? I would like to cross examine the claims.

 

I think we can all agree Tour balls were made for Tour players...You, and others, believe because these balls were designed to be stuck by (A) high swing players (firmness = speed) and (B) players that can control swing planes/paths to manipulate ball movement (spin) and (C) generally make great contact (consistency).....that (D) somehow that technology also applies to hackers and our slow swings, crappy swing planes, and garbage contact to make us score better.

 

That simply is not my experience or the experience of anyone I've played with (average weekend golfers). If your experience is different, great!

 

I love the "softer" balls (urethane or Ionomer) because I get better distance throughout the bag and I don't experience an issue holding greens or chipping on the courses I play.  I do experience the occasional shot (soft urethane or ionomer) that flies way to far, out of the blue, with no apparent explanation. I hate that, but it's worth it, because I just don't play or score well with Tour balls. (I have about 10 dozen ProV1 and X's so I will keep giving them a chance but it's been pure misery so far).

 

Best Regards.   

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I generally play a cheap 2 piece surlyn ball. I have used pro v1's that I have found, and while yes they are good balls, on the green I have to swing much harder than I prefer to to get the same distance off of the putter. I know that theoretically I could benefit from a premium ball, but my home course I usually lose about 2 balls per round. I'm a firm believer of the play 1 ball camp, but I personally haven't found a gamer ball yet. 

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8 hours ago, Roejye said:

I generally play a cheap 2 piece surlyn ball. I have used pro v1's that I have found, and while yes they are good balls, on the green I have to swing much harder than I prefer to to get the same distance off of the putter. I know that theoretically I could benefit from a premium ball, but my home course I usually lose about 2 balls per round. I'm a firm believer of the play 1 ball camp, but I personally haven't found a gamer ball yet. 

 

Try the Soft Feel as your gamer, you won't be disappointed. 

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23 hours ago, rwbloom93 said:

 

I have tried a few google searches for any "study" on the matter but have not had any luck. I know many of you have mentioned the studies on the premium tour balls so could someone link or point me in the right direction? I would like to cross examine the claims.

 

I think we can all agree Tour balls were made for Tour players...You, and others, believe because these balls were designed to be stuck by (A) high swing players (firmness = speed) and (B) players that can control swing planes/paths to manipulate ball movement (spin) and (C) generally make great contact (consistency).....that (D) somehow that technology also applies to hackers and our slow swings, crappy swing planes, and garbage contact to make us score better.

 

That simply is not my experience or the experience of anyone I've played with (average weekend golfers). If your experience is different, great!

 

I love the "softer" balls (urethane or Ionomer) because I get better distance throughout the bag and I don't experience an issue holding greens or chipping on the courses I play.  I do experience the occasional shot (soft urethane or ionomer) that flies way to far, out of the blue, with no apparent explanation. I hate that, but it's worth it, because I just don't play or score well with Tour balls. (I have about 10 dozen ProV1 and X's so I will keep giving them a chance but it's been pure misery so far).

 

Best Regards.   

 

Ok, here's one link.  I won't post the other because it is from MGS, but you can search that site and find it very easily.  These are the two most comprehensive tests I've ever seen.

 

https://Not allowed Per Todaysgolfer's UK request/features/equipment-features/2019/september/robot-tested-which-golf-bal-suits-my-game/

 

But, with all due respect, I disagree completely with this: " I think we can all agree Tour balls were made for Tour players...You, and others, believe because these balls were designed to be stuck by (A) high swing players (firmness = speed) and (B) players that can control swing planes/paths to manipulate ball movement (spin) and (C) generally make great contact (consistency).....that (D) somehow that technology also applies to hackers and our slow swings, crappy swing planes, and garbage contact to make us score better."

 

A PREMIUM golf ball (forget the term "tour") has no idea whether it is being struck by a Tour player, by a hopeless chop, or somebody in between.  Multi-layer, urethane golf balls are made of better materials to more exacting standards.  This idea that a given player isn't good enough to take advantage of those characteristics completely misses the point; that player needs all the help he can get from his equipment.  A player who can't generate much spin needs a ball that spins more, not less; it's only high spin players who NEED a ball that spins less, so Titleist makes the left dash for some of their Tour guys.  All the manufacturers make a version of their premium ball that spins more and a version that spins a bit less.

 

There is ONE reason, and ONLY one reason to play a two-piece surlyn ball, and that's cost.  Cost is important, for sure, and I understand 10% players who don't want to pay $45-$50 a dozen for golf balls.  But that's all it is; cost.  Confusing that with the performance benefits is just not factual.

 

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1 hour ago, bluedot said:

 

Ok, here's one link.  I won't post the other because it is from MGS, but you can search that site and find it very easily.  These are the two most comprehensive tests I've ever seen.

 

https://Not allowed Per Todaysgolfer's UK request/features/equipment-features/2019/september/robot-tested-which-golf-bal-suits-my-game/

 

But, with all due respect, I disagree completely with this: " I think we can all agree Tour balls were made for Tour players...You, and others, believe because these balls were designed to be stuck by (A) high swing players (firmness = speed) and (B) players that can control swing planes/paths to manipulate ball movement (spin) and (C) generally make great contact (consistency).....that (D) somehow that technology also applies to hackers and our slow swings, crappy swing planes, and garbage contact to make us score better."

 

A PREMIUM golf ball (forget the term "tour") has no idea whether it is being struck by a Tour player, by a hopeless chop, or somebody in between.  Multi-layer, urethane golf balls are made of better materials to more exacting standards.  This idea that a given player isn't good enough to take advantage of those characteristics completely misses the point; that player needs all the help he can get from his equipment.  A player who can't generate much spin needs a ball that spins more, not less; it's only high spin players who NEED a ball that spins less, so Titleist makes the left dash for some of their Tour guys.  All the manufacturers make a version of their premium ball that spins more and a version that spins a bit less.

 

There is ONE reason, and ONLY one reason to play a two-piece surlyn ball, and that's cost.  Cost is important, for sure, and I understand 10% players who don't want to pay $45-$50 a dozen for golf balls.  But that's all it is; cost.  Confusing that with the performance benefits is just not factual.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IlMNW_pQcc

 

In the link above, starting at the 2:25, Dean Snell talks about working at Titleist and TaylorMade and states his job was "to design golf balls for the best players in the world"....."to develop golf balls for the Tour players"...."develop relationships with Tour players"....nowhere does he mention average Joe.

 

Therefore, the ProV1 and X and the TP5 and X were developed for Tour players according to Dean Snell....but you disagree? ...that's OK...he's just one man.

 

So the question isn't whether the premium balls were developed for Tour players, we know that is a fact...The question is do they help the higher handicap players.  My anecdotal evidence is no,  your anecdotal evidence apparently is yes.  Great! Keep playing what helps you.

 

Dean Snell goes on to say he started his own golf company to sell lower priced tour performance balls to the paying public so they had affordable access to tour performance balls....and I think that is great! Good for Dean.  I have no doubt low handicap amateur golfers have the skill to utilize Tour balls...does the weekend hacker? Maybe yes, maybe no...Maybe Dean thinks yes, I didn't listen to the whole interview.

 

Before I stopped listening Snell went on to explain why lower spin is good...Control (especially windy days).

 

Not sure why you posted the Robot test (and refer to the other)....they don't settle anything.  Today'sGolfer concludes the Callaway ERC (3pc with Ionomer cover) is the best ball for amateurs.  Also, the two robot tests have some significant ball data differences even though they are swinging at the same speed.  The only difference as far as I know is the club used by each robot.  If using different clubs can create different data sets what do you think each of our unique swings will do to the data?  The takeaway form the two robot tests is "what's longer for you may not be longer for me, what spins more for me may not spin more for you"

 

I have already explained over an over why a golfer may want to play a non-Tour ball...you disagree, fine with me...play whatever makes you better (and speeds you along, I hate slow play).

 

Simple analogy to counter your thoughts on Tour balls and hackers...We buy our secretaries 99 cent calculators because they only need to add, subtract, multiply, and divide.  A $250 engineering calculator is an infinitely better product, designed for engineers to solve complex problems, but a complete waste for secretaries...they don't need it nor could they even use it properly.  Hope that helps.

 

Golf is the greatest game ever invented by man! 

 

Best Regards

 

    

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16 minutes ago, rwbloom93 said:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IlMNW_pQcc

 

In the link above, starting at the 2:25, Dean Snell talks about working at Titleist and TaylorMade and states his job was "to design golf balls for the best players in the world"....."to develop golf balls for the Tour players"...."develop relationships with Tour players"....nowhere does he mention average Joe.

 

Therefore, the ProV1 and X and the TP5 and X were developed for Tour players according to Dean Snell....but you disagree? ...that's OK...he's just one man.

 

So the question isn't whether the premium balls were developed for Tour players, we know that is a fact...The question is do they help the higher handicap players.  My anecdotal evidence is no,  your anecdotal evidence apparently is yes.  Great! Keep playing what helps you.

 

Dean Snell goes on to say he started his own golf company to sell lower priced tour performance balls to the paying public so they had affordable access to tour performance balls....and I think that is great! Good for Dean.  I have no doubt low handicap amateur golfers have the skill to utilize Tour balls...does the weekend hacker? Maybe yes, maybe no...Maybe Dean thinks yes, I didn't listen to the whole interview.

 

Before I stopped listening Snell went on to explain why lower spin is good...Control (especially windy days).

 

Not sure why you posted the Robot test (and refer to the other)....they don't settle anything.  Today'sGolfer concludes the Callaway ERC (3pc with Ionomer cover) is the best ball for amateurs.  Also, the two robot tests have some significant ball data differences even though they are swinging at the same speed.  The only difference as far as I know is the club used by each robot.  If using different clubs can create different data sets what do you think each of our unique swings will do to the data?  The takeaway form the two robot tests is "what's longer for you may not be longer for me, what spins more for me may not spin more for you"

 

I have already explained over an over why a golfer may want to play a non-Tour ball...you disagree, fine with me...play whatever makes you better (and speeds you along, I hate slow play).

 

Simple analogy to counter your thoughts on Tour balls and hackers...We buy our secretaries 99 cent calculators because they only need to add, subtract, multiply, and divide.  A $250 engineering calculator is an infinitely better product, designed for engineers to solve complex problems, but a complete waste for secretaries...they don't need it nor could they even use it properly.  Hope that helps.

 

Golf is the greatest game ever invented by man! 

 

Best Regards

 

    

 

Firstly, Snell is SELLING his own golf balls. Surely you don't believe the Devil has an air-conditioned condo for you when you arrive,,,,,,,,, :classic_biggrin:

 

Secondly, if you could afford a Porsche, wouldn't you buy one if you appreciated its performance, acceleration and handling ? Or do you have to be a Formula 1 driver (or similar) to enjoy it ?

Edited by nsxguy
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Callaway Epic Flash SZ Triple Diamond 9.0 Tour AD TP-6 Stiff

Adams A12 Idea Pro hybrid, 16*, Aldila 85 VS Proto Stiff

Ping G400 hybrid, 19*, 70 gr Stock Stiff

Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, 52, 60, DGS300

Vokey SM8 56/08 (Thanks WRX !!!)

Seemore MT7 Face Balanced (Today)

Chrome Soft Truvis Yellow/Black

 

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9 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Firstly, Snell is SELLING his own golf balls. Surely you don't believe the Devil has an air-conditioned condo for you when you arrive,,,,,,,,, :classic_biggrin:

 

Secondly, if you could afford a Porsche, wouldn't you buy one if you appreciated its performance, acceleration and handling ? Or do you have to be a Formula 1 driver (or similar) to enjoy it ?

If you only know how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide do you buy a calculator with only those functions or a high tech calculator with 100 functions and a graphing screen (none of which you need nor know how to use)?

Edited by rwbloom93
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Just now, rwbloom93 said:

If you only know how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide do you buy a calculator with only those functions or a high tech calculator with 100 functions and a graphing screen (none of which you need nor how to use)?

 

Thanks but I already read that. :classic_cool:

Callaway Epic Flash SZ Triple Diamond 9.0 Tour AD TP-6 Stiff

Adams A12 Idea Pro hybrid, 16*, Aldila 85 VS Proto Stiff

Ping G400 hybrid, 19*, 70 gr Stock Stiff

Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, 52, 60, DGS300

Vokey SM8 56/08 (Thanks WRX !!!)

Seemore MT7 Face Balanced (Today)

Chrome Soft Truvis Yellow/Black

 

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15 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Thanks but I already read that. :classic_cool:

Interesting..so why not answer?

 

I would not buy the Porsche because its impractical and doesn't fit my needs or lifestyle. If I am ever in a position to appreciate one, then maybe, but I only do city driving for short distances...reduces the appreciation factor somewhat.

 

Regards   

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10 hours ago, bluedot said:

 

Ok, here's one link.  I won't post the other because it is from MGS, but you can search that site and find it very easily.  These are the two most comprehensive tests I've ever seen.

 

https://Not allowed Per Todaysgolfer's UK request/features/equipment-features/2019/september/robot-tested-which-golf-bal-suits-my-game/

 

But, with all due respect, I disagree completely with this: " I think we can all agree Tour balls were made for Tour players...You, and others, believe because these balls were designed to be stuck by (A) high swing players (firmness = speed) and (B) players that can control swing planes/paths to manipulate ball movement (spin) and (C) generally make great contact (consistency).....that (D) somehow that technology also applies to hackers and our slow swings, crappy swing planes, and garbage contact to make us score better."

 

A PREMIUM golf ball (forget the term "tour") has no idea whether it is being struck by a Tour player, by a hopeless chop, or somebody in between.  Multi-layer, urethane golf balls are made of better materials to more exacting standards.  This idea that a given player isn't good enough to take advantage of those characteristics completely misses the point; that player needs all the help he can get from his equipment.  A player who can't generate much spin needs a ball that spins more, not less; it's only high spin players who NEED a ball that spins less, so Titleist makes the left dash for some of their Tour guys.  All the manufacturers make a version of their premium ball that spins more and a version that spins a bit less.

 

There is ONE reason, and ONLY one reason to play a two-piece surlyn ball, and that's cost.  Cost is important, for sure, and I understand 10% players who don't want to pay $45-$50 a dozen for golf balls.  But that's all it is; cost.  Confusing that with the performance benefits is just not factual.

 

 

You've left off feel and price. Most tour balls are too firm for me. I know there's an B RXS. But, at 48 a dozen I'll pass. Oddly enough, the Duo Pro has the preferred compression. But, feels mushy with little extra spin. That brings me to a two piece mid compression ball. 

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8 hours ago, rwbloom93 said:

If you only know how to add, subtract, multiply, and divide do you buy a calculator with only those functions or a high tech calculator with 100 functions and a graphing screen (none of which you need nor know how to use)?

 

I'm sure that I've read worse analogies than a calculator vs a golf ball, but I can't think of one right now.  It fails instantly, because, unlike the secretaries who only face simple, predictable math problems, the amateur golfer, ANY amateur golfer, has to hit the same shots that a Tour pro hits, AND has to hit far more of the most difficult shots.  We hit more tee shots into the rough.  We short side ourselves around the green more, and face pitches over a bunker to a tight pin.  We are in bunkers more, and in worse positions relative to the pin.  I could go on, but I think you get the idea;  we face complex problems, and more of them, and we need MORE help from out equipment, including the golf ball.  To think otherwise completely ignores the way amateur golfers play the game.

 

I'm glad that you brought up the Callaway ERC.  It's a three piece ball, and it does NOT have a surlyn cover.  Today's Golfer liked it a lot more than MGS did, but it's a good golf ball for value purposes, which is what Today's Golfer points out.  But at $35/doz., it is by NO means the sort of budget, two piece, surlyn cover ball that is being talked about here.  It is a good option IF you want at least marginally better performance around the green with $15 still in your pocket.

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I've just decided to try to find a support group to help me quit posting on golf ball threads like this one.  This thing where I continually try to convince other bad golfers that they need help but will have to pay for it, while they insist that cheap equipment performs just as well is wearing me out.  Life in an echo chamber is tough.

 

So don't take lessons, don't get good fitted equipment, and please, PLEASE use cheap golf balls!  While you're at it, wear sneakers instead of golf shoes, and ill-fitting ones at that.  Do everything that you can think of to make a hard game harder, and then explain it all away by saying that you are aren't good enough to need help. 

 

Then extend that logic to other areas of your life, by all means.  I'm too sick to go to a doctor.  I'm in too much trouble to hire a lawyer.  The water in my house is too deep for me to need a plumber.  I don't know what's wrong with my car, so I don't need a mechanic.  My kids are too ignorant to go to school.  I'm too bored to watch TV, much less read a book.  She's too beautiful for me to need a shower before our first date.

 

Go for it!  Think of the money you'll save!  You'll be the envy of the neighborhood!

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Premium balls makes a huge difference if you know exactly your distances. I have been sampling several different premium balls in the last 2 yrs(ProV1, X, TP5, X, Bridgestone BSx) and the numbers are different on flight, and total distances.

 

If I grab a lesser ball, I will tell you they have such a larger dispersion in yardages. When I'm carrying water into a hole that is 160, I feel that with a premium ball I know, if hit right,  it will fly the number I expect it to. Many 'cheaper' balls, while they have the same ability to go that number, they will not be repeatable...And the spin characteristics are a guess at best.

 

Also with higher swingspeeds off the driver the premium balls really do help with sidespin and can be an advantage to many high handicappers. Although frustrating if you lose one every other hole, It is worth a try and can definitely improve your game. Yes, you can buy a better game! IMHO

 

Good luck. Get the rounds in before the snow....

 

 

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@bluedot

i have objective proof that surlyn beats urethane. My scores. All the studies folks talk about should be starting points. From there each player must measure what works best for their own game. I used to switch from urethane in warm weather to surlyn in colder weather. Then I stayed with surlyn all year and my scores dropped. 
spin is your friend around the greens only if you know how to control it. I have compared surlyn balls to cavity backs irons. And urethane balls are like blades.  Each have advantages depending on the user.  

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11 hours ago, rwbloom93 said:

Interesting..so why not answer?

 

I would not buy the Porsche because its impractical and doesn't fit my needs or lifestyle. If I am ever in a position to appreciate one, then maybe, but I only do city driving for short distances...reduces the appreciation factor somewhat.

 

Regards   

 

It wasn't really worth answering but,,,,,,,,,,, since you did,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

I would buy the Porsche because I love it and it fits my needs and my lifestyle.

 

I would buy the calculator if it was the same price as and better built because who knows, I might actually need it someday.

 

Similarly I have a computer with a much larger screen and far more processing power than I actually use because one day I might actually want to use the additional capabilities and the additional expense was negligible.

 

I buy the premium ball because it's only a buck or 2 more expensive per round and I appreciate the consistency and quality of the premium ball. Not to mention the added spin. Oops.

 

Hope this helps.

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Callaway Epic Flash SZ Triple Diamond 9.0 Tour AD TP-6 Stiff

Adams A12 Idea Pro hybrid, 16*, Aldila 85 VS Proto Stiff

Ping G400 hybrid, 19*, 70 gr Stock Stiff

Ping G20, 5-PW, DGS300

Ping Glide Forged, 48, 52, 60, DGS300

Vokey SM8 56/08 (Thanks WRX !!!)

Seemore MT7 Face Balanced (Today)

Chrome Soft Truvis Yellow/Black

 

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2 hours ago, bluedot said:

I've just decided to try to find a support group to help me quit posting on golf ball threads like this one.  This thing where I continually try to convince other bad golfers that they need help but will have to pay for it, while they insist that cheap equipment performs just as well is wearing me out.  Life in an echo chamber is tough.

 

So don't take lessons, don't get good fitted equipment, and please, PLEASE use cheap golf balls!  While you're at it, wear sneakers instead of golf shoes, and ill-fitting ones at that.  Do everything that you can think of to make a hard game harder, and then explain it all away by saying that you are aren't good enough to need help. 

 

Then extend that logic to other areas of your life, by all means.  I'm too sick to go to a doctor.  I'm in too much trouble to hire a lawyer.  The water in my house is too deep for me to need a plumber.  I don't know what's wrong with my car, so I don't need a mechanic.  My kids are too ignorant to go to school.  I'm too bored to watch TV, much less read a book.  She's too beautiful for me to need a shower before our first date.

 

Go for it!  Think of the money you'll save!  You'll be the envy of the neighborhood!

 

This is as bad an analogy as the other one. And no, most amateur golfers do not have to hit the same shots tour players have to hit. They may look similar but they are not the same, unless they are playing high end courses in which case I'd guess they are already playing a more premium ball. 

Titleist 917 D3 9.5* Kiyoshi Black 65-05
Titleist 917 F3 15* VA Composite Drago 75-X
Titleist 818 H2 19* Tensei White 100-X
Mizuno MP-69 3-PW PX 6.5
Titleist Vokey SM7 Jet Black 54* S PX 6.5
Titleist Vokey SM7 Jet Black 60* M PX 6.0
Special Select Squareback 2 w/ IOmic

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