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How much of a difference does a "premium" ball make?


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3 hours ago, TLUBulldogGolf said:

 

This is as bad an analogy as the other one. And no, most amateur golfers do not have to hit the same shots tour players have to hit. They may look similar but they are not the same, unless they are playing high end courses in which case I'd guess they are already playing a more premium ball. 

 

You're right; I misspoke.  I should have worked harder to make it clear that amateur golfers face far worse shots than Tour pros do, and lots more of them!  More balls in the rough, more balls farther into the rough, more short sided approach shots, more balls in bunkers, and on and on and on.  More shots where they need more help from a premium golf ball...

 

I'm 68, and I didn't play golf as a kid.  When I started playing there were exactly TWO options; a two piece surlyn ball like the TopFlite, or a balata ball.  The price difference was HUGE, much bigger than today, and on top of that balata balls were incredibly short-lived, even if you didn't lose them.  I was a HS coach with a young family, so I just flat out couldn't afford balata golf balls, but even as a beginner in the game, I knew that good players played balata balls.  I was NEVER confused about why I was using a cheap, two-piece surlyn golf ball, and I never tried to make the case that they were in ANY way better.  I drove beater cars until the wheels fell off back then, too, and I knew exactly why I was doing it; I never made the claim that my Plymouth Duster with 150k that left an oil slick everywhere I parked was anything other than what it was.

 

Fast forward to 2020, in which we find ourselves with a zillion or so premium balls that are long and straight off the tee, and spin like tops around the green, AND are amazingly durable, so much so that you're likely to lose it long before it loses any performance.  Ironically, premium golf balls today are FAR better than the old days, while two piece surlyn balls are pretty much the same now as they were then.   Yes, premium balls cost a lot, and yes, if I was still a young person struggling financially to find ways to make an expensive sport less expensive, I'd still be playing inexpensive two piece surlyn golf balls, and just absolutely loving the game while I did it, just like I did 40+ years ago. 

 

But you know what I would NOT be doing?  I wouldn't be constructing elaborate arguments to explain WHY I was using an inferior product; I'd just fess up and say, "I can't afford the premium balls."  It gets more complicated, I think, when instead of "can't" the operative word is "won't ", and that's probably where the need to construct analogies and hypotheticals and all the rest come from. 

 

No need to reply to this; I don't think anybody's changing their mind at this point, including me.  And I'll try really hard to refrain from posting more on this or similar threads; the election is stressful enough without adding this silliness.

Edited by bluedot
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I have no problem affording the premium balls. Lately I have been playing the E12 Soft and Speed (3 piece surlyn). My scores have been no different that those rounds played this year with Z Star, TP5X, or Maxfli Tour X. As about a 15, extra greenside or wedge spin isn't providing any added benefit that the higher flying and steeper descending E12 doesn't yield and I'm getting better iron distance.

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BD, We're not saying you're wrong. We're just saying as hacks, we're fine with 2 piece. The score doesn't change much either way. So, why not go with a softer ball that feels great and is cheaper. I'd rather get a Soft Feel for 10-12 bucks with a DSG coupon during the holidays instead of a Pro V at 48. Yes, money is a factor even though I can afford more.

Edited by Tanner25
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5 hours ago, bluedot said:

I'm 68, and I didn't play golf as a kid.  When I started playing there were exactly TWO options; a two piece surlyn ball like the TopFlite, or a balata ball.  The price difference was HUGE, much bigger than today, and on top of that balata balls were incredibly short-lived, even if you didn't lose them.  I was a HS coach with a young family, so I just flat out couldn't afford balata golf balls, but even as a beginner in the game, I knew that good players played balata balls.  I was NEVER confused about why I was using a cheap, two-piece surlyn golf ball, and I never tried to make the case that they were in ANY way better. 

 

Fast forward to 2020, in which we find ourselves with a zillion or so premium balls that are long and straight off the tee, and spin like tops around the green, AND are amazingly durable, so much so that you're likely to lose it long before it loses any performance.  Ironically, premium golf balls today are FAR better than the old days, while two piece surlyn balls are pretty much the same now as they were then.   Yes, premium balls cost a lot, and yes, if I was still a young person struggling financially to find ways to make an expensive sport less expensive, I'd still be playing inexpensive two piece surlyn golf balls, and just absolutely loving the game while I did it, just like I did 40+ years ago. 

 

 

... There are just so many good cheap urethane options out there and I believe that a premium ball can help a high index player improve their short game. Just hit one lob wedge that checks when short sided and the desire to repeat that should be pretty strong. Not gonna happen with a 2 piece surly ball. I just ordered 5 dozen TP5 Pix PRACTICE balls for $99 shipped. Most here know but for those that don't, PRACTICE balls have a cosmetic blemish and are rejected for full price sale but the quality of the PRACTICE ball is the same as the on sale $39.99 TP5 Pix at your local golf store. At 68 I m not playing any tournaments these days but play most every day so PRACTICE stamped on my Pix balls is hardly even noticeable. 

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On 10/26/2020 at 8:11 AM, bluedot said:

 

I'm sure that I've read worse analogies than a calculator vs a golf ball, but I can't think of one right now.  It fails instantly, because, unlike the secretaries who only face simple, predictable math problems, the amateur golfer, ANY amateur golfer, has to hit the same shots that a Tour pro hits, AND has to hit far more of the most difficult shots.  We hit more tee shots into the rough.  We short side ourselves around the green more, and face pitches over a bunker to a tight pin.  We are in bunkers more, and in worse positions relative to the pin.  I could go on, but I think you get the idea;  we face complex problems, and more of them, and we need MORE help from out equipment, including the golf ball.  To think otherwise completely ignores the way amateur golfers play the game.

 

I'm glad that you brought up the Callaway ERC.  It's a three piece ball, and it does NOT have a surlyn cover.  Today's Golfer liked it a lot more than MGS did, but it's a good golf ball for value purposes, which is what Today's Golfer points out.  But at $35/doz., it is by NO means the sort of budget, two piece, surlyn cover ball that is being talked about here.  It is a good option IF you want at least marginally better performance around the green with $15 still in your pocket.

Sorry you didn't like the analogy, I thought it was simple and to the point. Amateur players are not in full control of their swings or swing planes therefore cannot execute the shots Tour pros can no matter what ball they play..... Also a high spin ball that is poorly stuck, due to a poor swing plane, might cause a ball to be curve even more offline than a poor swing with a ionomer cover.... in theory that should be true....but maybe other factors make it not true...idk  

 

The Callaway ERC is an Ionomer cover, not urethane, just like I stated...it competes with the Bridgestone e12 and Titleist TourSoft and is not the type ball you are insisting every golfer should play.

 

I understood you to say there was a study showing Tour Balls lower the handicaps of the hacker.  If anyone is aware of the study please link, I would like to read it.

 

Regards

 

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On 10/26/2020 at 8:35 AM, bluedot said:

I've just decided to try to find a support group to help me quit posting on golf ball threads like this one.  This thing where I continually try to convince other bad golfers that they need help but will have to pay for it, while they insist that cheap equipment performs just as well is wearing me out.  Life in an echo chamber is tough.

 

So don't take lessons, don't get good fitted equipment, and please, PLEASE use cheap golf balls!  While you're at it, wear sneakers instead of golf shoes, and ill-fitting ones at that.  Do everything that you can think of to make a hard game harder, and then explain it all away by saying that you are aren't good enough to need help. 

 

Then extend that logic to other areas of your life, by all means.  I'm too sick to go to a doctor.  I'm in too much trouble to hire a lawyer.  The water in my house is too deep for me to need a plumber.  I don't know what's wrong with my car, so I don't need a mechanic.  My kids are too ignorant to go to school.  I'm too bored to watch TV, much less read a book.  She's too beautiful for me to need a shower before our first date.

 

Go for it!  Think of the money you'll save!  You'll be the envy of the neighborhood!

 

I think your first mistake is thinking a ball designed to be struck with Tour level swing speeds by Tour level talent (to manipulate ball flight) extends to golfers of every level....I doesn't help me or anybody I know (higher handicapers) score better.  If it does for you and everyone you know, great!..play it.

 

I think golfers who want to take lessons should. I think golfers who want to be fitted should get fitted. I think golfers should wear golf shoes if tennis shoes are insufficient (but sometimes tennis shoes are OK, it depends).

 

A person should certainly go to a doctor if they are not getting well on their own.  Unfortunately, lawyers are needed from time to time, please call a plumber if you can't fix yourself, same for the mechanic.

 

None of that has any relation to whether a hacker, who doesn't possess Tour Speed or skill, is helped by a ball designed for Tour Speed and Skill.  If you are a 20 hcp golfer and a Tour ball helps you play better...please play it.

 

Regards

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On 10/26/2020 at 12:30 PM, bluedot said:

 

But you know what I would NOT be doing?  I wouldn't be constructing elaborate arguments to explain WHY I was using an inferior product; I'd just fess up and say, "I can't afford the premium balls."  It gets more complicated, I think, when instead of "can't" the operative word is "won't ", and that's probably where the need to construct analogies and hypotheticals and all the rest come from. 

 

 

An ionomer ball is an inferior product for a Tour Player, at least compared to a Tour ball.  The question is.....is  the ionomer ball inferior for the high handicapper? I don't think there is an universal yes or no.

 

My USGA calculated handicap is 8.7  (I call myself a 12 because that is my actual score differential counting all rounds)....  I have played the Tour Balls many times and they don't help me play better. I had my best year in quite some time playing mostly the Titleist TourSoft, Trufeel and occasionally mixing in the Tour B RX and RXS depending on course firmness. Any ball (ionomer or urethane) that is softer is better for me.

 

If the USGA banned all balls except Tour balls I would seriously think about quitting the game.

 

For me and my 85 mph driver speed the softer balls are:

1) Longer on all clubs especially mid irons

2) More forgiving and better performance on slight mishits

3) Feel (sound) great!

4) I am a bump and run chipper, I miss Tour level spin only rarely....

 

It is not a money issue for me...I have over 10 dozen Tour Balls sitting, just waiting to be played....but I don't play well with them... so they will continue to sit the bench.

 

Regards 

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8 hours ago, rwbloom93 said:

 

An ionomer ball is an inferior product for a Tour Player, at least compared to a Tour ball.  The question is.....is  the ionomer ball inferior for the high handicapper? I don't think there is an universal yes or no.

 

My USGA calculated handicap is 8.7  (I call myself a 12 because that is my actual score differential counting all rounds)....  I have played the Tour Balls many times and they don't help me play better. I had my best year in quite some time playing mostly the Titleist TourSoft, Trufeel and occasionally mixing in the Tour B RX and RXS depending on course firmness. Any ball (ionomer or urethane) that is softer is better for me.

 

If the USGA banned all balls except Tour balls I would seriously think about quitting the game.

 

For me and my 85 mph driver speed the softer balls are:

1) Longer on all clubs especially mid irons

2) More forgiving and better performance on slight mishits

3) Feel (sound) great!

4) I am a bump and run chipper, I miss Tour level spin only rarely....

 

It is not a money issue for me...I have over 10 dozen Tour Balls sitting, just waiting to be played....but I don't play well with them... so they will continue to sit the bench.

 

Regards 

Agreed 1)-3) above is what a softer ball can do for a player with 85 mph or maybe below 80 mph driver speed. When swing speed decreases to a certain level, ball's COR contributes more than club's COR.

For higher swing speed, hard ball just goes farther.

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7 hours ago, pallmall said:

Agreed 1)-3) above is what a softer ball can do for a player with 85 mph or maybe below 80 mph driver speed. When swing speed decreases to a certain level, ball's COR contributes more than club's COR.

For higher swing speed, hard ball just goes farther.

This has never been shown to be the case with testing. A firm ball gives faster ball speeds at all swing speeds. The difference narrows as you swing slower, but you never have the soft ball going faster.

 

What a soft ball will do is lower spin, and through decreased spin you can get longer carry distances at slower swing speeds.

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I agree that a premium ball is not for everyone. Just because a ball spins more does not make it automatically better for every golfer.  In order to take advantage of the spin the user needs to be able to hit that shot. I use urethane but regular dabble and play non-urethane like the regular QStar, Vice Tours and recently E12. There is no noticeable difference in my scores. I do not spin the ball back with any ball. That is my swing. On approaches, full and partial, the difference is at most 5-7 feet. Have tested on course.  That is not going to change my game. Sometimes the extra roll is past the hole but also some are short and roll closer to the hole. Many people I play with are 10-20 HC and are not scoring any better with a ProV1 then a Velocity. Players play what works. Some want and prefer a bump and run chip rather then flying closer. Just because it cost more and spins more does not mean everyone should play regardless of price. I simply like the fee of the urethanes I play and that is really the only reason I play them over the others.  

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42 minutes ago, Flyers99 said:

I agree that a premium ball is not for everyone. Just because a ball spins more does not make it automatically better for every golfer.  In order to take advantage of the spin the user needs to be able to hit that shot. I use urethane but regular dabble and play non-urethane like the regular QStar, Vice Tours and recently E12. There is no noticeable difference in my scores. I do not spin the ball back with any ball. That is my swing. On approaches, full and partial, the difference is at most 5-7 feet. Have tested on course.  That is not going to change my game. Sometimes the extra roll is past the hole but also some are short and roll closer to the hole. Many people I play with are 10-20 HC and are not scoring any better with a ProV1 then a Velocity. Players play what works. Some want and prefer a bump and run chip rather then flying closer. Just because it cost more and spins more does not mean everyone should play regardless of price. I simply like the fee of the urethanes I play and that is really the only reason I play them over the others.  

 

It's not the amount of spin that makes a tour ball better, there are probably balls being played on tour (Pro -V1x, TP5x, etc) that don't spin that much more than the highest spinning surlyn ball. But what they do is spin in a much more consistent window than the surlyn ball. It's the consistency of spin and ball speed that you are paying for.

 

Those differences from shot to shot might be small and imperceptible. It might make less than half a shot per round (and you'd need A LOT to spot that). And no matter what equipment I use, I'm always going to be the most inconsistent part of my golf game. Even knowing that, I'd like to minimize any other things that could be adding to the inconsistency. I wouldn't want a driver that might drop 300 RPM of spin at random, and I don't want a ball that would do it either.

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The idea that everyone would play better with a tour ball is just not true.  Like I said in my previous posts on this the scorecard is the final measuring stick.  All of my personal bests on golf courses were shot with non tour balls.  My two course records were also shot with non tour balls. My largest tourney win, by 7 shots over 36 holes, winning score -13 with no bogies was shot with a non tour ball.  Again going back to the analogy of cavity irons vs blades, the tour ball designs allow a wider array of shots to be played.  They are designed so top players can hit a multitude of shots.  But if spin alone were such a great advantage no one would have changed to solid balls because they never spun like balatas. And that is the case with surlyn and urethane.  I currently am using 3 different 2 piece surlyn models- the soft feel, Hammer Control and trufeel.  None of these balls can be curved as easy as urethane.  But they are still very consistent when reacting to my driver, irons, wedge and putter.  For me the lower compression gives a pleasing feedback on all my shots. And as I have aged that is one of the sensations that I look for when playing.  I am way past my peak clubhead speed days but the feeling of mashing a ball is still there thanks to lower compression.  Now when I hit higher compression balls they feel like old top flites regardless whether they are tour balls or not.  

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5 minutes ago, munichop said:

The idea that everyone would play better with a tour ball is just not true.  Like I said in my previous posts on this the scorecard is the final measuring stick.  All of my personal bests on golf courses were shot with non tour balls.  My two course records were also shot with non tour balls. My largest tourney win, by 7 shots over 36 holes, winning score -13 with no bogies was shot with a non tour ball.  Again going back to the analogy of cavity irons vs blades, the tour ball designs allow a wider array of shots to be played.  They are designed so top players can hit a multitude of shots.  But if spin alone were such a great advantage no one would have changed to solid balls because they never spun like balatas. And that is the case with surlyn and urethane.  I currently am using 3 different 2 piece surlyn models- the soft feel, Hammer Control and trufeel.  None of these balls can be curved as easy as urethane.  But they are still very consistent when reacting to my driver, irons, wedge and putter.  For me the lower compression gives a pleasing feedback on all my shots. And as I have aged that is one of the sensations that I look for when playing.  I am way past my peak clubhead speed days but the feeling of mashing a ball is still there thanks to lower compression.  Now when I hit higher compression balls they feel like old top flites regardless whether they are tour balls or not.  

Balata covered balls became obsolete because the spin they had was unnecessary (and a detrimental characteristic) with the modern driver.  The modern driver initial launch is higher and has more ballspeed.  The spin was necessary for older drivers and long irons to create lift.

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Balata balls became obsolete when Titleist introduced the pro v line of balls.  The superior distance those balls provided overwhelmed the spin limitations they had and really was the final straw in the bomb and gouge approach to golf at the highest level.  Once trackman was invented it convinced all the holdouts to embrace data driven metrics to improve your golf game at the highest level.  Now golf has had 2 decades of this and the game at the highest level has devolved into driver, wedge, putter golf.  Now expand that argument to surlyn vs urethane.  Surlyn balls devolve the game you play by simplifying the types of shots you have at your disposal.  But if you can repeat those shots reliably you can still score.  Sure the game is less interesting because you don't have to work at every type of shot but scoring is easier because you have fewer things you have to be able to do well.  That is BD's approach and he is making others notice. But really Koepka already did this and to a lesser extent so has DJ.  I used to embrace trying to play a full compliment of shots but the reality is I don't have the time or skill to master all the variables.  So I simplified my approach and play point and shoot golf.  At 58 I am a plus 2 in both mens clubs I play and love beating all the tour ball users with my inexpensive 2 piece surlyn balls.

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1 hour ago, arbeck said:

 

It's not the amount of spin that makes a tour ball better, there are probably balls being played on tour (Pro -V1x, TP5x, etc) that don't spin that much more than the highest spinning surlyn ball. But what they do is spin in a much more consistent window than the surlyn ball. It's the consistency of spin and ball speed that you are paying for.

 

Those differences from shot to shot might be small and imperceptible. It might make less than half a shot per round (and you'd need A LOT to spot that). And no matter what equipment I use, I'm always going to be the most inconsistent part of my golf game. Even knowing that, I'd like to minimize any other things that could be adding to the inconsistency. I wouldn't want a driver that might drop 300 RPM of spin at random, and I don't want a ball that would do it either.


Well I will disagree. I have not encountered any noticeable difference that you mentioned for inconsistency. My swing is not perfect all the time so there is user error on my part.  I would almost argue in the opposite for those lesser skilled in the short game. There is nothing more that I hate when I am chilpping with urethane and I clip the 1-2 a round perfect and the ball checks and comes up well short of the flag.  That hurts more. With the suryln type balls the chipping seems more consistent for me in allowing a little run out. The normal strikes for me don’t go much further than if I clip it perfect. 

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1 hour ago, munichop said:

Balata balls became obsolete when Titleist introduced the pro v line of balls.  The superior distance those balls provided overwhelmed the spin limitations they had and really was the final straw in the bomb and gouge approach to golf at the highest level.  Once trackman was invented it convinced all the holdouts to embrace data driven metrics to improve your golf game at the highest level.  Now golf has had 2 decades of this and the game at the highest level has devolved into driver, wedge, putter golf.  Now expand that argument to surlyn vs urethane.  Surlyn balls devolve the game you play by simplifying the types of shots you have at your disposal.  But if you can repeat those shots reliably you can still score.  Sure the game is less interesting because you don't have to work at every type of shot but scoring is easier because you have fewer things you have to be able to do well.  That is BD's approach and he is making others notice. But really Koepka already did this and to a lesser extent so has DJ.  I used to embrace trying to play a full compliment of shots but the reality is I don't have the time or skill to master all the variables.  So I simplified my approach and play point and shoot golf.  At 58 I am a plus 2 in both mens clubs I play and love beating all the tour ball users with my inexpensive 2 piece surlyn balls.

Weird. I have been able to turn the E12s that I've gamed lately left and right. I've flighted them down out of the wind and they've stopped on a dime on 120 wedge shots. Exactly which shot am I not getting from the surlyn ball outside of the Mickelson super flop, which I could never do anyway.

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12 hours ago, chippa13 said:

Weird. I have been able to turn the E12s that I've gamed lately left and right. I've flighted them down out of the wind and they've stopped on a dime on 120 wedge shots. Exactly which shot am I not getting from the surlyn ball outside of the Mickelson super flop, which I could never do anyway.

Is it because the E12 is a 3 piece surlyn ball, not 2 piece which is more common? 

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For a bit of historical accuracy, which I imagine most of you already know, especially if you're as old as I am.

 

The balata ball became obsolete because of the Titleist Professional, which was a wound ball without a balata cover.  It was a bit longer than a balata ball, but mainly it was far more durable, and the pros didn't have to take a ball out of play every three holes because the ball was out of round or the cover had a dent in it or whatever.  For amateurs, the Professional made a premium ball much more affordable simply because it lasted so much longer; a box cost about the same as balata, but the per round cost became much, much lower. 

 

I doubt there is any way to explain to somebody who wasn't playing golf at that time how much better the Professional was than balata; in a VERY short period of time, NOBODY was playing balata anymore.  If you played any sort of "serious" golf, you'd have all four players in almost every group using the Professional; the only equipment phenomenons that I can think of that are comparable are the Ping Eye2 irons and the Callaway Great Big Bertha titanium driver; for short periods of time, each of those dominated the golf market in a way that is hard to imagine today.

 

The wound ball, though, became obsolete because of Tiger Woods.  Woods won nine times, including the Tiger Slam, after he put the Tour Accuracy in play.  Woods won the Memorial by five shots and then the US Open at Pebble by 15 shots the first two times he played the Tour Accuracy in 2000, and the rest is history.  At the Masters of 2000 just before the Woods changed from the Professional to the Tour Accuracy, two thirds of the players were playing a wound ball.  A year later, there were only four players in the field at the 2001 Masters using a wound ball; every other player had switched to a three piece urethane ball.  The simple reason was that it was a better golf ball; it went as far as a two piece ball, performed comparably to a wound ball off irons, was much, much better in the wind, and vastly more durable.  It was just a better golf ball in every respect.

 

I think it's fair to say that the Tour Accuracy was never a huge seller in the retail market, partially because it was Nike, which, despite Woods, just wasn't a big player in the retail market, but moreso because Callaway and Titleist quickly came out with their versions.  When the ProV1 became available, the speed at which it overwhelmed the golf ball market, both retail and professional is impossible to overstate.  I remember the first one I ever hit, which I had found and then hit off the tee on the next hole because I had heard so much about it.  Long par three on a windy day, and I flushed it; I had never seen a golf ball cut thru the wind like that ball did AND stop on a dime.  It was incredible, and for all intents and purposes, I never played another round with a either a wound ball or a two piece ball after that; it was that much better. 

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17 hours ago, arbeck said:

 

It's not the amount of spin that makes a tour ball better, there are probably balls being played on tour (Pro -V1x, TP5x, etc) that don't spin that much more than the highest spinning surlyn ball. But what they do is spin in a much more consistent window than the surlyn ball. It's the consistency of spin and ball speed that you are paying for.

 

Those differences from shot to shot might be small and imperceptible. It might make less than half a shot per round (and you'd need A LOT to spot that). And no matter what equipment I use, I'm always going to be the most inconsistent part of my golf game. Even knowing that, I'd like to minimize any other things that could be adding to the inconsistency. I wouldn't want a driver that might drop 300 RPM of spin at random, and I don't want a ball that would do it either.

 

They do spin more, at least off the wedges where they spin a lot more. The biggest reason they are better is because they provide different spin characteristics off different clubs. I have a ball that spins low off the driver but I can throw a 70 yard wedge in and one hop and stop it. You don't get that with a cheaper ball. 

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Most of the folks playing the cheaper ball don't have the precision to put that 70 yard wedge shot into the spot where one hop and stop matters nearly as much. They are just as likely if not more so to be long, short, left or right as they are to be right on the spot they're targeting.

 

For some players, attempting that kind of precision with a tour ball creates more problems than just shooting for a general area of the green.

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36 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

Most of the folks playing the cheaper ball don't have the precision to put that 70 yard wedge shot into the spot where one hop and stop matters nearly as much. They are just as likely if not more so to be long, short, left or right as they are to be right on the spot they're targeting.

 

For some players, attempting that kind of precision with a tour ball creates more problems than just shooting for a general area of the green.

 

Not really the point I was making and I don't necessarily disagree, but to argue they don't spin more is not accurate. I've already stated in this thread that most mid to high handicappers can't make use of the performance a tour ball provides, so if cost is a concern especially then I wouldn't really bother. 

Titleist TSi3 10* TPO 1K 60-TX
Titleist 917F3 15* VA Composite Drago 75-X
Titleist TSr3 19* Ventus Black 10-TX
Mizuno MP-20 4-9 PX 6.5

Mizuno T20 47-07 PX 6.5

Mizuno T22 52-09 56-10 PX 6.5

Vokey SM9 60-04T PX Wedge 6.5
Special Select Squareback 2 w/ SuperStroke Pistol GT 1.0

ProV1x

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As someone mentioned earlier, I think the most important factor is using the same ball. Getting used to how a ball reacts is probably the best way to lower your scores ball wise. Whether its a rock that rolls out or a spinny tour ball. 

 

Generally I play a little better with a spinner ball around the green since I expect to get check on my ball, however if I use a cheaper ball as long as I get used to the roll out, I shoot fairly similar scores. My mid western greens arent rock hard or fast so I have no problem stopping a full iron shot with either ball and the driver doesnt make much of a difference for me. Just around the greens. 


For me the key is predictability and it doesn't matter much what ball I use.

Edited by Flip4000
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On 10/28/2020 at 5:52 PM, Old Tom Morris said:

Balata covered balls became obsolete because the spin they had was unnecessary (and a detrimental characteristic) with the modern driver.  The modern driver initial launch is higher and has more ballspeed.  The spin was necessary for older drivers and long irons to create lift.

I have an old Wilson Staff wood driver at 9 degrees (I play a 10.5* with modern clubs). I hit a few balls with it once and could hardly get balls off the ground - they were kind of low flying wounded ducks. To think that I used to play such clubs (back in the 60's/70's before a 25  year hiatus away from the game). 

 

dave

 

 

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3 minutes ago, DaveLeeNC said:

I have an old Wilson Staff wood driver at 9 degrees (I play a 10.5* with modern clubs). I hit a few balls with it once and could hardly get balls off the ground - they were kind of low flying wounded ducks. To think that I used to play such clubs (back in the 60's/70's before a 25  year hiatus away from the game). 

 

dave

 

 

Generally as a youth, I could not hit a laminated or persimmon driver fast and well enough to get the ball flying properly.  Used a three wood to tee off.  Eventually was able to hit a Burner plus decently enough to get a proper ball flight but was never incredibly long.

Driver: Titleist 913 D3 8.5° A-1 setting Graphite Design YS-6+ 65g stiff

Wood:  Titleist 980F 17° Aldila NV stiff

Hybrid: Titleist 909H 21° Aldila Voodoo stiff 

Irons:  Titleist 716 AP2 4- W  DG AMT S300

Wedges: Titleist Vokey SM7  54°,  58° DG S200

Putter:  Odyssey White Hot #1 Tour

Ball: Titleist Pro V1

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23 hours ago, chippa13 said:

Who has ever argued that tour balls don't spin more?

 

You replied to my post...from the quoted text:

 

'It's not the amount of spin that makes a tour ball better, there are probably balls being played on tour (Pro -V1x, TP5x, etc) that don't spin that much more than the highest spinning surlyn ball.'

 

This is what I was referencing. Again, you are correct most people aren't playing with that level of precision. But not really the point I was making. 

Edited by TLUBulldogGolf

Titleist TSi3 10* TPO 1K 60-TX
Titleist 917F3 15* VA Composite Drago 75-X
Titleist TSr3 19* Ventus Black 10-TX
Mizuno MP-20 4-9 PX 6.5

Mizuno T20 47-07 PX 6.5

Mizuno T22 52-09 56-10 PX 6.5

Vokey SM9 60-04T PX Wedge 6.5
Special Select Squareback 2 w/ SuperStroke Pistol GT 1.0

ProV1x

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I am about a 20 handicap and I find a big difference in premium balls vs cheap balls. I have about 100mph swing speed and average driving distance. I would consider myself average to above average within 30 yards of the pin. Unless I really sail my drive off to the side I am good for about 4 greens in regulation and at least 8 with a chance at up and down, more on a good day. Putting kills me, but I am slowly getting better. 

 

Cheaper balls almost never drop and stop for me, so I've tailored my game to play more bump and runs. Where I find the biggest gains is on my driving. TaylorMade RBZ was working well for me early in the year but as I improved my swing and gained speed the ball started to be a hinderance. I didn't know it until I played a pick up AVX. I went from a 225 yard drive to 250-260 consistently. I played a sleeve of those to make sure it was true and it was. I also get a lot less side spin so less slices. I've tried out a few mid-grade balls since I lose to many to play full price premiums. Q-Star and Q-Star Tour work well, I see increased driving distance but not the full increase. 

 

I've found the TP5 plays well and is in the 240-250 yard drives with occasional longer. You can get Practice TP5 for $20 a dozen. If you search you can even find some previous year Z-Stars for $20 a dozen. At that price I'll play premium balls. I just have to adjust my game for more green side control now.

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Here's my take on golf balls... and just my take... don't take offense.. this works for me

 

1.

The key is find a ball, test the ball and stick with that ball.

- Take a few rounds in good weather to test golf balls.

- I don't switch clubs every year, my bag, or my shoes, why switch balls so much.

- I have wasted so much time (ok, some fun) looking for the perfect ball.

- I have made the mistake of swapping out my preferred ball for another during a round only to find distance changing or spin rates changing, then thinking, why did I do that?

 

2.

Buy new.

- in bulk or discounted

- i just got to a point where i questioned the performance of the balls i got from a refurbished website.

 

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