2020 Zozo Championship: Tigerrrrrr! (smh)

[drbonesvt]

1 minute ago, TheIncelGolfer said:

I would normally agree but it is a Japanese tournament and the trophy reflects their aesthetic affinity for the organic and natural (basic carved base), blended  with what we'd call more modern forms (the minimalist ellipse). Theres a slight mother of pearl luminescence to the inner face of the ellipse which I think is a nice touch.

Makes sense , 👍👍👍 , I think the winners share of the purse could help me move past my artistic discrepancies 

[grm24]

Some numbers for the fading legends division of the PGA Tour. Not pretty.

 

In calendar 2020 Tiger has played 30 rounds over 8 events on the PGA Tour. 8 sub 70 rounds. 7 rounds 75 and higher. He's close right bscinstnct?  🤪 

 

Champions Tour success is not helping Phil on the PGA Tour. 1st Champions Tour event he wins.  His next two events were on the PGA Tour, T44 and M/C. Wins 2nd Champions Tour event. Next PGA Tour event finishes 76th out of the 77 players that played. Worst score of the day (78) in the final round. Predictable.

 

Hot rumor has it the PGA Tour will lower the age for the Champions Tour next week to 45 so Tiger can play there in 2021 with Phil and hopefully finish better than T37 once over 7 events. 🤣🤣🤣  /S

 

I hope I'm wrong but Tigers unknown goodbye was the Presidents Cup at Royal Melbourne in his singles match with Abraham Ancer. And yes this is edited LOL!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by grm24

[MattyO1984]

Disappointed that my man JT let this one slip by him. Didn’t quite seem to have it most of the weekend. Good win for Cantlay. Playing well at the moment and seemed to get on pretty good round Augusta last year, so he definitely has to be amongst the favourites in a few weeks time.

[tiderider]

6 hours ago, MattyO1984 said:

Disappointed that my man JT let this one slip by him. Didn’t quite seem to have it most of the weekend. Good win for Cantlay. Playing well at the moment and seemed to get on pretty good round Augusta last year, so he definitely has to be amongst the favourites in a few weeks time.

they talked about that this morning on gc ... he's lost 4/5 54 hole leads, and it's certainly troubling from a performance perspective ... he's got the most upside, and seems to get into Sunday contention more than most, but he does hit some way, way, wayward shots at crucial times ... 

[MattyO1984]

1 hour ago, tiderider said:

they talked about that this morning on gc ... he's lost 4/5 54 hole leads, and it's certainly troubling from a performance perspective ... he's got the most upside, and seems to get into Sunday contention more than most, but he does hit some way, way, wayward shots at crucial times ... 

 

He seems to get very loose at times and then fairways and greens come hard to find. He won at St Jude but he won there because of his chipping. If it hadn’t have been as good as it is, he would have thrown that one away as well. Definitely something to pay attention to going forward.

[freowho]

10 hours ago, tiderider said:

they talked about that this morning on gc ... he's lost 4/5 54 hole leads, and it's certainly troubling from a performance perspective ... he's got the most upside, and seems to get into Sunday contention more than most, but he does hit some way, way, wayward shots at crucial times ... 

 

8 hours ago, MattyO1984 said:

 

He seems to get very loose at times and then fairways and greens come hard to find. He won at St Jude but he won there because of his chipping. If it hadn’t have been as good as it is, he would have thrown that one away as well. Definitely something to pay attention to going forward.

He has a release pattern that relies on timing and the less lofted the club the more timing that is required. Timing gets harder to maintain under pressure so unless he changes he will always be trying to hook and block his way out of contention. Even when he won the PGA he hit it all over the place on that last 9 holes. Big pull hook on 10 hit a tree and bounced back onto the fairway. I think he even hit a topped second shot on a par 5. But he is so good from inside 150. I can see him winning a really firm and dry British Open where you don't need a driver. Tiger won 15 majors with a dodgy release pattern because he was so good inside 150. Even when he won his US amateurs he was all over the place. But Tiger learnt very quickly as a pro to know when to get the fairway finder out. Something JT could do. Greg Norman would have at least another British Open and Masters if he had paid attention. 

[Dr. Block]

1 hour ago, freowho said:

 

He has a release pattern that relies on timing and the less lofted the club the more timing that is required. Timing gets harder to maintain under pressure so unless he changes he will always be trying to hook and block his way out of contention. Even when he won the PGA he hit it all over the place on that last 9 holes. Big pull hook on 10 hit a tree and bounced back onto the fairway. I think he even hit a topped second shot on a par 5. But he is so good from inside 150. I can see him winning a really firm and dry British Open where you don't need a driver. Tiger won 15 majors with a dodgy release pattern because he was so good inside 150. Even when he won his US amateurs he was all over the place. But Tiger learnt very quickly as a pro to know when to get the fairway finder out. Something JT could do. Greg Norman would have at least another British Open and Masters if he had paid attention. 

Tigers release pattern was dodgy?  Can you explain? I’ve studied his swing as well as JT’s. Their clubface angle to swing path relationship is about as good as it gets.  It’s why one is in the hall of fame, and the other is on his way.  Tiger was prone to getting stuck at certain points in his career and JT tends to get very quick with his tempo, but I wouldn’t call their releases overly reliant on timing.  All classic two plane moves require timing as the clubface releases and rotates through impact, only recently have golfers been able to remove it to some extent (Rahm, DJ, and now Bryson - especially Bryson)

[grm24]

13 hours ago, tiderider said:

they talked about that this morning on gc ... he's lost 4/5 54 hole leads, and it's certainly troubling from a performance perspective

That's as many blown 54 hole leads on the PGA Tour that Tiger has. Of course Tiger has had 59 54 hole leads(shared/outright) on the PGA Tour. 

 

Winning when leading after 54 holes is not easy except for Tiger. From late 2019.

 

https://www.15thclub.com/2019/11/13/closing-deal-examining-success-rates-54-hole-leaders/

 

It served as a reminder of just how difficult it is to close out a 54-hole lead on the game’s biggest stages. Over the last 15 years, players with a 1-shot lead through 54 holes on the PGA and European Tours combined to win at just a 36.4 percent rate. With a 2-shot lead, that number is still less than a coin flip: 44.5 percent.

 

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by grm24

[freowho]

5 hours ago, Dr. Block said:

Tigers release pattern was dodgy?  Can you explain? I’ve studied his swing as well as JT’s. Their clubface angle to swing path relationship is about as good as it gets.  It’s why one is in the hall of fame, and the other is on his way.  Tiger was prone to getting stuck at certain points in his career and JT tends to get very quick with his tempo, but I wouldn’t call their releases overly reliant on timing.  All classic two plane moves require timing as the clubface releases and rotates through impact, only recently have golfers been able to remove it to some extent (Rahm, DJ, and now Bryson - especially Bryson)

"As good as it gets". Do you really think they are, or have been the best drivers of the ball?

"Tiger gets stuck and JT gets quick"

Isn't that timing?

"I wouldn't call their releases overly reliant on timing".

But....

"All classic two plane moves require timing".

Which remark would you like to go with?

"Only recently have golfers been able to remove it to some extent".

Never heard of Nelson or Wright or Nicklaus? Wasn't the saying that Hogan didn't like 36 holes because he ended up in his divots from the morning round?

[bladehunter]

7 hours ago, Dr. Block said:

Tigers release pattern was dodgy?  Can you explain? I’ve studied his swing as well as JT’s. Their clubface angle to swing path relationship is about as good as it gets.  It’s why one is in the hall of fame, and the other is on his way.  Tiger was prone to getting stuck at certain points in his career and JT tends to get very quick with his tempo, but I wouldn’t call their releases overly reliant on timing.  All classic two plane moves require timing as the clubface releases and rotates through impact, only recently have golfers been able to remove it to some extent (Rahm, DJ, and now Bryson - especially Bryson)

I agree.  There’s a reason why tiger and JT are such good iron players.   They are both on top of the ball , upright and down the line.  The least amount of timing in a swing possible , for the most part.  

[puttfordoux]

On 10/26/2020 at 1:23 AM, grm24 said:

Some numbers for the fading legends division of the PGA Tour. Not pretty.

 

In calendar 2020 Tiger has played 30 rounds over 8 events on the PGA Tour. 8 sub 70 rounds. 7 rounds 75 and higher. He's close right bscinstnct?  🤪 

 

Champions Tour success is not helping Phil on the PGA Tour. 1st Champions Tour event he wins.  His next two events were on the PGA Tour, T44 and M/C. Wins 2nd Champions Tour event. Next PGA Tour event finishes 76th out of the 77 players that played. Worst score of the day (78) in the final round. Predictable.

 

Hot rumor has it the PGA Tour will lower the age for the Champions Tour next week to 45 so Tiger can play there in 2021 with Phil and hopefully finish better than T37 once over 7 events. 🤣🤣🤣  /S

 

I hope I'm wrong but Tigers unknown goodbye was the Presidents Cup at Royal Melbourne in his singles match with Abraham Ancer. And yes this is edited LOL!

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't think Tiger will be encouraged to play the Champions tour anytime soon, unless a LOT of money is thrown his way for doing so. And as speculated here, probably the only Champions tour event he would consider playing is the US Senior Open, in which a win would break the tie between him and Bobby Jones for number of USGA victories. 

[drbonesvt]

Does he play Houston ?

[Greg_B]

I can't see Tiger doing much at all going forward unless there is another medical procedure that is in the offing. This was about as easy as it could get - a limited field with many relatively unknown Asian tour players making up a good part of it, a short and soft golf course, and benign weather conditions. And he still finished 22 back of the lead. The final report card will be what he does at Augusta in a couple of weeks. If he struggles there, it might be time to face the music and concede that he is no longer able to be competitive.

[tiderider]

37 minutes ago, drbonesvt said:

Does he play Houston ?

tiger? ... heck no ... 

 

wouldn't be surprised if there's a considerable number of masters players that skip houston, since there will be spectators at houston ... 

[Dr. Block]

5 hours ago, freowho said:

"As good as it gets". Do you really think they are, or have been the best drivers of the ball?

"Tiger gets stuck and JT gets quick"

Isn't that timing?

"I wouldn't call their releases overly reliant on timing".

But....

"All classic two plane moves require timing".

Which remark would you like to go with?

"Only recently have golfers been able to remove it to some extent".

Never heard of Nelson or Wright or Nicklaus? Wasn't the saying that Hogan didn't like 36 holes because he ended up in his divots from the morning round?

As good as it gets". Do you really think they are, or have been the best drivers of the ball?

Maybe we have a different definition of release patterns.  They both put the club on plane very nicely, they both have stable clubfaces, and they both control the release of the clubhead with the turn of their bodies through impact more then they do releasing their hands.  When Tiger was having his best years he was an excellent driver of the golf ball. 

Tiger gets stuck and JT gets quick"

Tiger had the stuck issues mostly with Foley.  They weren't representative of his best swing patterns when he had his most dominate years.  Your statement seemed to suggest he had some manner of a poor release his whole career. I think that is inaccurate.  I also think tempo issues are separate from the mechanics of controlling the clubface.  

All classic two plane moves require timing". 

Yes, they do.  To call a two planer's move dodgy would mean Nicklaus was dodgy, Snead was dodgy, Adam Scott, Greg Norman, Rory McIlroy, the list could go on and on.  All have a stable and square clubface to path ratio.  Its why they are/were great players.  If you want a dodgy two planer, you could point to Phil Mickelson.  He pulls the club quite steep and the face open and only recovers (pulls the club back into the slot) very late in the downswing with a very aggressive turn of his hips. 

Only recently have golfers been able to remove it to some extent".

Yes, only recently have golfers started putting the lead wrist in flexion effectively creating some manner of a closed clubface that they then hold on to as they exhibit extremely dynamic athletic turns through the ball.  This action removes timing the rotation of the clubface.  Bryson goes about it differently with the way he locks his front forearm in an upward position. Bryson's move is quite brilliant actually. 

Never heard of Nelson or Wright or Nicklaus? Wasn't the saying that Hogan didn't like 36 holes because he ended up in his divots from the morning round?

I've heard of all of those players.  Nelson, Wright, Nicklaus, all classic two planers with just as much roll release as JT and Tiger maybe even more in the days of the bigger hip drive.  Hogan was definitely ahead of his time, but I wouldn't say his move had much to do with the flexion thing that has developed in the last 10 years.  He did birth the rotation release that was then furthered by O'Grady with his Morad work - basically the birth of the modern golf swing.

 

I think JT and Tiger lie somewhere in the middle of the roll and rotation release.  Nothing dodgy at all about the way they control the clubface.  I think you are making on over generalization of what a release pattern is.  Tiger had a few issues during one of his swing changes, to me that doesn't apply across the board.  And like I said above, I think tempo is a different thing.  It doesn't matter how sound your release is or how you go about doing it, if your tempo completely leaves you for a swing here and there, you're going to hit some ugly shots. 

 

 

 

 

 

[grm24]

18 hours ago, puttfordoux said:

I don't think Tiger will be encouraged to play the Champions tour anytime soon, 

My post on Tiger and the Champions Tour was complete sarcasm. Hence the "/S" (sarcasm).

[GolfTurkey]

Not closing 4/5 54 hole leads isn’t the worst problem to have, I bet Jordan would happily swap problems!

[freowho]

20 hours ago, Dr. Block said:

As good as it gets". Do you really think they are, or have been the best drivers of the ball?

Maybe we have a different definition of release patterns.  They both put the club on plane very nicely, they both have stable clubfaces, and they both control the release of the clubhead with the turn of their bodies through impact more then they do releasing their hands.  When Tiger was having his best years he was an excellent driver of the golf ball. 

Tiger gets stuck and JT gets quick"

Tiger had the stuck issues mostly with Foley.  They weren't representative of his best swing patterns when he had his most dominate years.  Your statement seemed to suggest he had some manner of a poor release his whole career. I think that is inaccurate.  I also think tempo issues are separate from the mechanics of controlling the clubface.  

All classic two plane moves require timing". 

Yes, they do.  To call a two planer's move dodgy would mean Nicklaus was dodgy, Snead was dodgy, Adam Scott, Greg Norman, Rory McIlroy, the list could go on and on.  All have a stable and square clubface to path ratio.  Its why they are/were great players.  If you want a dodgy two planer, you could point to Phil Mickelson.  He pulls the club quite steep and the face open and only recovers (pulls the club back into the slot) very late in the downswing with a very aggressive turn of his hips. 

Only recently have golfers been able to remove it to some extent".

Yes, only recently have golfers started putting the lead wrist in flexion effectively creating some manner of a closed clubface that they then hold on to as they exhibit extremely dynamic athletic turns through the ball.  This action removes timing the rotation of the clubface.  Bryson goes about it differently with the way he locks his front forearm in an upward position. Bryson's move is quite brilliant actually. 

Never heard of Nelson or Wright or Nicklaus? Wasn't the saying that Hogan didn't like 36 holes because he ended up in his divots from the morning round?

I've heard of all of those players.  Nelson, Wright, Nicklaus, all classic two planers with just as much roll release as JT and Tiger maybe even more in the days of the bigger hip drive.  Hogan was definitely ahead of his time, but I wouldn't say his move had much to do with the flexion thing that has developed in the last 10 years.  He did birth the rotation release that was then furthered by O'Grady with his Morad work - basically the birth of the modern golf swing.

 

I think JT and Tiger lie somewhere in the middle of the roll and rotation release.  Nothing dodgy at all about the way they control the clubface.  I think you are making on over generalization of what a release pattern is.  Tiger had a few issues during one of his swing changes, to me that doesn't apply across the board.  And like I said above, I think tempo is a different thing.  It doesn't matter how sound your release is or how you go about doing it, if your tempo completely leaves you for a swing here and there, you're going to hit some ugly shots. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree there was good and bad Tiger although he mostly fought the ball going left for most of his career. I was referencing Tiger to point out that you don't have to hit driver to win, which is something JT might have to consider but I think he can improve his release.

I think we do have different thoughts on release. I think everything is a release. We release our legs, our upper body, our arms, our wrists. I also think because golf is primarily a rotation, all good players have a rolling release and even the best golf swing in the world only has a small window to hit a good shot. But the best players find a way to increase the window. Chuck Cook said that if a pupil was slicing the ball he would teach them to hit a hook because it was a better starting point. 

Hogan said he moved his left thumb to reduce the clubface closing and get rid of the hook. Annika had really soft elbows to reduce the rotation of the club. Faldo conceded he wasn't going to win a major with his early swing so he changed the timing of his right side bend. Nicklaus kept a high left arm. Palmer made the Zorro finish.

 

"All classic two plane moves require timing as the clubface releases and rotates through impact, only recently have golfers been able to remove it to some extent (Rahm, DJ, and now Bryson - especially Bryson)"

 

I assume you are referencing the bowed leading wrist? Golfers have been reducing their reliance on timing since the beginning of the game and most systems have nothing to do with a bowed leading wrist. I also don't understand how the number of planes is important.

 

I also think most parts of the swing are connected. For example, the more you try and work the trail arm under the lead arm on the follow through, the more the trail leg works in towards the lead leg rather than out. 

 

JT clearly fights the ball going left and should be looking for ways to reduce his reliance on timing. All players should always be trying to do this. And I'm not suggesting he needs a complete reconstruction. His right leg flying out seems like an obvious place to start. He could try Brad Hughes's Downunder board!

If you play well and get beaten, then fair play. But if you play bad, how many times do you stand there at the end of the game and say, my technique is wonderful and it just wasn't my day? 

[Dr. Block]

4 hours ago, freowho said:

 

I agree there was good and bad Tiger although he mostly fought the ball going left for most of his career. I was referencing Tiger to point out that you don't have to hit driver to win, which is something JT might have to consider but I think he can improve his release.

I think we do have different thoughts on release. I think everything is a release. We release our legs, our upper body, our arms, our wrists. I also think because golf is primarily a rotation, all good players have a rolling release and even the best golf swing in the world only has a small window to hit a good shot. But the best players find a way to increase the window. Chuck Cook said that if a pupil was slicing the ball he would teach them to hit a hook because it was a better starting point. 

Hogan said he moved his left thumb to reduce the clubface closing and get rid of the hook. Annika had really soft elbows to reduce the rotation of the club. Faldo conceded he wasn't going to win a major with his early swing so he changed the timing of his right side bend. Nicklaus kept a high left arm. Palmer made the Zorro finish.

 

"All classic two plane moves require timing as the clubface releases and rotates through impact, only recently have golfers been able to remove it to some extent (Rahm, DJ, and now Bryson - especially Bryson)"

 

I assume you are referencing the bowed leading wrist? Golfers have been reducing their reliance on timing since the beginning of the game and most systems have nothing to do with a bowed leading wrist. I also don't understand how the number of planes is important.

 

I also think most parts of the swing are connected. For example, the more you try and work the trail arm under the lead arm on the follow through, the more the trail leg works in towards the lead leg rather than out. 

 

JT clearly fights the ball going left and should be looking for ways to reduce his reliance on timing. All players should always be trying to do this. And I'm not suggesting he needs a complete reconstruction. His right leg flying out seems like an obvious place to start. He could try Brad Hughes's Downunder board!

If you play well and get beaten, then fair play. But if you play bad, how many times do you stand there at the end of the game and say, my technique is wonderful and it just wasn't my day? 

The lead wrist and clubface are connected in the golf swing.  A flat wrist at the top equals a square and stable clubface, a cupped wrist equates to a open clubface, a bowed wrist (or flexion) equates to a closed face. John Rahm and Dustin Johnson are two good examples of the newer method of closing the face (bowing the wrist) then holding on to that position and turning very aggressively.  That move basically locks the face in the position needed at impact and removes the need to manipulate it through the impact zone. I find that move interesting, but I also wonder if they'll be able to execute the body turn needed as they get older and lose some of their athleticism, especially Dustin Johnson.  When you watch his swing in slow motion the turn he achieves to make that bowed wrist work is just incredible.  To say its only newer might be inaccurate though, as Lee Trevino did something very similar and I'm sure there are others I'm not mentioning. 

 

A few examples of cupped wrist players would be John Daly and Fred Couples.  Both immediately correct as they transition into the downswing.  Fred has a unique move where he rotates his wrist back to square, John Daly, (much like the guys above) makes an incredible turn that pulls the club back into the slot (perfectly on plane) very early in his downswing.  From where he is at the top (so far past parallel) you would think he would have to pull the club steep like Phil does, but he makes one of the most dynamic moves that I think has ever existed in golf.  Probably why so many consider him the most naturally gifted golfer that ever lived. 

 

I think the two plane classic swing creates more issues to deal with in transition then the flatter rotation based swing.  To me one is a swinging of the clubhead and the other is more of a hit using the body.  Thus one relies very much on a free rotation of the clubface through impact.  That free-flowing, two plane, classic reverse-C swing is really a thing of beauty in my eyes, but you don't see it much anymore in the modern game because it relies so much more on timing. 

 

It's my understanding that the position of the clubface (which can vary a little from player to player) and the path of swing are what dictate ball-flight.  Obviously all world class players have the path and plane pretty well perfected - particularly when they get down to the business end of things.  The examples you listed above are interesting but I wonder if a lot of them aren't just feels that those particular players felt and not actually technical things they were doing.  A lot of great players really had no idea how they were making the sausage, they went off of feels.  I'm pretty sure I've read Hogan just dictated his feels to the author that wrote them out in the five lessons.  

 

I think JT has created a world class move, and one I would not think needs any drastic re-appraisals.  Learning how to get the results he needs under pressure is probably more in his head then it is anything technical.  I would hate to see him end up in the state Jordan Spieth is in.

 

I can't argue that everything done in the swing connects to the clubface and path, so I guess you could call all of it the release.  For me the release is a little more specific though.  I think there are a lot of factors and methods used to get to the way each player does it.  It is amazing how they all get into nearly the same position at impact though.  There may be a lot of different ways to get to it, but putting the club exactly on the address plane at impact is nearly universal.      

 

All that's been said is of course just my opinion and analysis as a student and major golf nerd when it comes to the swing.  I spend a lot of time watching swing analysis on YouTube.  And I've recently taken lessons from a pro well versed in the more modern approach to path and face angle and how it dictates ball-flight.  None of this means I can execute what I know, but it is interesting to examine all of it.  Speaking to Youtube, my personal favorite is Wayne DeFrancesco.  He has a great collection of swing analysis videos from modern to classic players.  He was also at one time (and maybe he still is) Kevin Streelman's swing coach.  Kevin Streelman hails from my neck of the woods, so I'm a fan 🙂

 

I've enjoyed this bit of discourse and reading your opinions and analysis.  Whether we continue or we don't, thank you.

 

-Matt

[TheMoneyShot]

On 10/27/2020 at 6:59 AM, Greg_B said:

I can't see Tiger doing much at all going forward unless there is another medical procedure that is in the offing. This was about as easy as it could get - a limited field with many relatively unknown Asian tour players making up a good part of it, a short and soft golf course, and benign weather conditions. And he still finished 22 back of the lead. The final report card will be what he does at Augusta in a couple of weeks. If he struggles there, it might be time to face the music and concede that he is no longer able to be competitive.

😂🤣

[BobMorris]

On 10/26/2020 at 9:13 PM, Extra Stiff said:

Lucky guy, I have college buddies who have played there. Gosh I wish I could see those green-like fairways!

Back in the 90's, I was friends with a member that hosted me there a number of times. Not your typical wealthy C.C. member, he played off a +2 or thereabouts, so we had some very spirited matches. It's a very playable course if you can drive it reasonably straight, doesn't typically play as long as the yardage, and was always in the type of condition you might imagine - immaculate. The only place in the LA area I had a bigger kick out of playing, albeit only a couple times, was Riviera.

[BobMorris]

Just now, Extra Stiff said:

How can you say that, Riviera > Bel Air & Sherwood?????, please explain and elaborate...

Also, I am pretty sure to be a member at Sherwood you need to be making like 1Mil+ minimum but please correct me if I'm wrong 😉

As I was never in a position to afford it, he and I never talked about initiation fees or monthly dues. Not sure what they are or were exactly, but I'd wager the initiation fees are well into six figures, dues...who knows. My friend is a producer, so for him, whatever it cost, it was/is a drop in the bucket.

 

As far as Riviera goes, not sure how to describe it other than I believe it to be a better layout than Sherwood, and certainly better than Bel Air....which I've walked but not played. Also, there is a mystique and history with Riviera that can't really be matched by any other course in SoCal. I've yet to have an opportunity to play LA Country Club, and likely won't, so I can't judge it against the others.

[BobMorris]

3 minutes ago, Extra Stiff said:

Ah, I see. You ever play La Jolla Country Club in San Diego and do you reside in Cali currently?

 

Lastly, was he a music or movie producer?

I'm sorry to say that my San Diego listing of courses I've played, is entirely too incomplete. I have not played La Jolla. I've played Torrey (when it was cheap), Aviara, Carlton Oaks, the Gary Player courses in Jamul. The furthest south I would typically venture was Orange County....I played in that area quite a bit.

 

I am still living in Cali, but up north.

 

Actually, I believe he worked in network television, or at least he did back then. We sort of drifted out of touch some years back.

[TheMoneyShot]

28 minutes ago, Extra Stiff said:

Don't worry, Nike will rig the Masters for him 😉

It fits, lots of things are being rigged in 2020....

Edited October 28, 2020 by TheMoneyShot

[Shilgy]

On 10/27/2020 at 1:54 AM, freowho said:

"As good as it gets". Do you really think they are, or have been the best drivers of the ball?

"Tiger gets stuck and JT gets quick"

Isn't that timing?

"I wouldn't call their releases overly reliant on timing".

But....

"All classic two plane moves require timing".

Which remark would you like to go with?

"Only recently have golfers been able to remove it to some extent".

Never heard of Nelson or Wright or Nicklaus? Wasn't the saying that Hogan didn't like 36 holes because he ended up in his divots from the morning round?

😳you seriously think there is a swing that did not depend on timing?

And Hogan never missed a fairway....truer words never were spoken...

 

oops

 

 

[Greg_B]

13 hours ago, Shilgy said:

😳you seriously think there is a swing that did not depend on timing?

And Hogan never missed a fairway....truer words never were spoken...

 

oops

 

 

 

The drive obviously hit a rock in the middle of the fairway and caromed to that point. 😉

[freowho]

On 10/28/2020 at 11:19 PM, freowho said:

 

I also think because golf is primarily a rotation, all good players have a rolling release and even the best golf swing in the world only has a small window to hit a good shot. But the best players find a way to increase the window.

 

16 hours ago, Shilgy said:

😳you seriously think there is a swing that did not depend on timing?

And Hogan never missed a fairway....truer words never were spoken...

 

oops

 

 

I understand if you don't have time to read everything. 

 

Maybe this story isn't as recognised as I thought.

 

There's a great story (likely a legend) about Hogan playing the sixth hole at Carnoustie. In that day you played 18 in the morning and 18 in the afternoon and completed the final two rounds in the same day (poor announcers!).

Here's the Telegraph:

"The sixth was also the hole which gave rise to the entertaining story of how Hogan's accuracy was such that his shots in the afternoon finished in the same divots he had made in the morning."

[Shilgy]

17 minutes ago, freowho said:

 

I understand if you don't have time to read everything. 

 

Maybe this story isn't as recognised as I thought.

 

There's a great story (likely a legend) about Hogan playing the sixth hole at Carnoustie. In that day you played 18 in the morning and 18 in the afternoon and completed the final two rounds in the same day (poor announcers!).

Here's the Telegraph:

"The sixth was also the hole which gave rise to the entertaining story of how Hogan's accuracy was such that his shots in the afternoon finished in the same divots he had made in the morning."

I recall the story quite well. And place no faith in its veracity.  Seems like ALL of the greatest ballstrikers were from the days before there were detailed stats kept. Gee, I wonder why that is? Did you know when Hogans caddie was shagging the balls in a practice session Hogan could hit him in the left nut or right on demand from 250 yards? Damndest thing I never saw. But I am sure I read it somewhere so it must be true! 😀

[Dr. Block]

6 hours ago, Shilgy said:

I recall the story quite well. And place no faith in its veracity.  Seems like ALL of the greatest ballstrikers were from the days before there were detailed stats kept. Gee, I wonder why that is? Did you know when Hogans caddie was shagging the balls in a practice session Hogan could hit him in the left nut or right on demand from 250 yards? Damndest thing I never saw. But I am sure I read it somewhere so it must be true! 😀

My favorite is the one about Hogan and Palmer at the Masters. Arnie was cracking some mammoth drives that day and enjoying the crowds approval. Hogan finally has enough and decides to tune-it-up to show what kind of power he had on call when he wanted it. They are walking up to the balls and Arnie (being the long man all day) automatically heads to the one 20 yards ahead. Hogan hangs back and observes. Arnie checks the ball then tramps back in a huff. It wasn't his.  Ben cracks a rye smile and goes on up ahead.  

 

Sometimes I wonder if this iconic photo was taken during that round.  

 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Dr. Block

[freowho]

28 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

I recall the story quite well. And place no faith in its veracity.  Seems like ALL of the greatest ballstrikers were from the days before there were detailed stats kept. Gee, I wonder why that is? Did you know when Hogans caddie was shagging the balls in a practice session Hogan could hit him in the left nut or right on demand from 250 yards? Damndest thing I never saw. But I am sure I read it somewhere so it must be true! 😀

Gene Sarazen tried. 1:52.