Shocked at how many pros tip drivers 1", many other people do this?

[golfdaddio3]

Never really knew this was much of a thing, I've always played shorter drivers with heavier shafts. Looking at pro bags it's all 60 gram shafts tipped 1" with really heavy heads to trick the mind with swing weights around D4.

 

My dilemma with this is it's really expensive to tip a driver shaft and put a tip on it, if it doesn't work out quite a bit of $$$. My fitting 2 years ago at a Club Champion never mentioned it so not sure if this is more of a new thing.

 

For reference I swing about 117mph so right in line with pga average. Hit most fairways but that's with a heavy counterbalanced x-stiff shaft playing 11.5 degrees. Problem is I don't get the distance I could and maybe that setup could really help that.

 

Who else tips their drivers out there?

[Pepperturbo]

2 minutes ago, golfdaddio3 said:

Never really knew this was much of a thing, I've always played shorter drivers with heavier shafts. Looking at pro bags it's all 60 gram shafts tipped 1" with really heavy heads to trick the mind with swing weights around D4.

 

My dilemma with this is it's really expensive to tip a driver shaft and put a tip on it, if it doesn't work out quite a bit of $$$. My fitting 2 years ago at a Club Champion never mentioned it so not sure if this is more of a new thing.

 

For reference I swing about 117mph so right in line with pga average. Hit most fairways but that's with a heavy counterbalanced x-stiff shaft playing 11.5 degrees. Problem is I don't get the distance I could and maybe that setup could really help that.

 

Who else tips their drivers out there?

 

Fitters seldom mention tipping greater than 1/2" tip prep because most people can't handle 1" tipping on the flex that fits them. 

 

I been tipping my shafts either 1" or 3/4" for years.  However, recently, 1/2 prep and 1/2" tip works for me.  With sleeves typical prep is 1/2 tip, then 1/2"-1.5" tip then into the sleeve.

 

I suggest buying a $25-$50 cheap X-flex shaft on eBay, get a cheap $12-$15 sleeve on eBay, have shaft tipped 1" and sleeve installed to fit your driver then test.  Should cost under $100.

[Hack Daddy]

I tip all my driver shafts 1". 

 

We'll need some numbers to give you better advice, but if you're at 117mph, Im gonna go out on a limb and say 11° is too much loft for you. 

[golfdaddio3]

Nice to see couple of you are and have been.

 

Do like that suggestion of tipping some cheap shafts, may can even find one tipped with some ebay searches but nothing I saw yet.

 

Btw numbers from one a pic I had are 118 club speed 160 ball speed, 14.2 launch, 3373 spin, carry 271.7, total 275.4. Not sure if those numbers would help on knowing to tip or not. Those are with an epic 10.5 turned up a degree with oban kiyoshi gold 75x shaft

[chipa]

@golfdaddio3

 

Just to make sure you are talking about trimming the tip 1" to make the shaft stiffer? Also, if that's the case as long as the standard length doesn't change from the OEM the swingweight shouldn't change significantly so the pros are adding weight to get up to D4? I'm interested because I've been doing my own clubfitting for a few months now and want to learn any new tricks to help my setup. I have played X but now I hard tip my shafts between S and X because I'm in my 50's.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

1 hour ago, golfdaddio3 said:

Never really knew this was much of a thing

The pros have gotten it from reading WRX’er comments 😎

[getitdaily]

If you don't have launch or spin issues (too high) then don't tip. But if you need to reduce launch by about a degree and reduce spin by a couple hundred rpm then tipping can help you. That's all it's for...changing launch conditions.

 

It will help a shaft feel stiffer, but not usually by a lot. 

[Valtiel]

32 minutes ago, golfdaddio3 said:

Nice to see couple of you are and have been.

 

Do like that suggestion of tipping some cheap shafts, may can even find one tipped with some ebay searches but nothing I saw yet.

 

Btw numbers from one a pic I had are 118 club speed 160 ball speed, 14.2 launch, 3373 spin, carry 271.7, total 275.4. Not sure if those numbers would help on knowing to tip or not. Those are with an epic 10.5 turned up a degree with oban kiyoshi gold 75x shaft

Nothing shocking about it since the average PGA tour club head speed is easily 7mph+ above the generic x-flex threshold of the mid 100's. 

If your numbers above are accurate then it is safe to say you are very poorly optimized for your speed. Your spin is high, your launch is high, and your ball speed is low. 118 clubhead speed on Trackman should be sniffing the upper 170's for ball speed and should be comfortably into the 170's on GCQuad. So either your numbers are inaccurate, or your strike quality/delivery conditions are very poor. If you can, please confirm what these numbers were taken from before we recommend anything further. But if they are accurate, then there are far bigger problems than small adjustments like shaft tipping. 

[Krt22]

Here is another shocker, TM tips all of their driver shafts 1"

[Quebec Club Ho]

This is something I've been trying to find information on...tipping driver shafts and BBTG measurements

So what I've found from my research and asking questions is that:

Ping heads have a small BBTG measurement

Callaway and TM have some of the highest measurements.

So that would make sense with Krt22's comment that TM tips their shafts 1" ( to make shaft play to 'flex'

I guess you need to find out what the BBTG measurements are - then figure out how much to tip your driver shaft. 

I custom ordered a cobra SZX with a Di 6 and I found out cobra doesn't tip their shafts - and it played too soft for me. Previously played a Ping G400 max with a Di 6 from a TM M1 - tipped one inch - perfect for my swing. I thought it'd be the same. 

So I'm with the OP....what to do????

 

[Red4282]

Tipping to me isnt really about launch and spin but just to tighten up the feel and kick of the shaft. Of course it matters what profile shaft is being tipped.

[Seamus_McDuff]

I’ve always looked at it this way, if you go shorter you might need to add weight to the head and when you add weight to the head you might need to tip it. 

[Brooks_Cupcake]

5 hours ago, Valtiel said:

Nothing shocking about it since the average PGA tour club head speed is easily 7mph+ above the generic x-flex threshold of the mid 100's. 

If your numbers above are accurate then it is safe to say you are very poorly optimized for your speed. Your spin is high, your launch is high, and your ball speed is low. 118 clubhead speed on Trackman should be sniffing the upper 170's for ball speed and should be comfortably into the 170's on GCQuad. So either your numbers are inaccurate, or your strike quality/delivery conditions are very poor. If you can, please confirm what these numbers were taken from before we recommend anything further. But if they are accurate, then there are far bigger problems than small adjustments like shaft tipping. 

Honestly, is there anyone better right now at advice on this forum from a quantitative perspective than @Valtiel?

just love this dude....

[golfdaddio3]

@chipa this is probably a great place to start as it has each pro with any tipping (most all of them) and the length and swingweight. Hopefully can try one of these setups if I can find a tipped one on ebay or build a cheapie x-stiff one to try out.

[Hack Daddy]

1 hour ago, Seamus_McDuff said:

I’ve always looked at it this way, if you go shorter you might need to add weight to the head and when you add weight to the head you might need to tip it. 

 

I went 2" longer and also put 20g of hotmelt in the head, with a 1" tipped Rogue silver... So, one size doesn't fit all. 

[golfdaddio3]

@Valtiel @therealjonzone thanks for the responses. I looked closer and see there may be some inaccuracies, these first numbers are from a pga superstore bay where I paid like $10 for an hour and that shot was a good sample with actually higher spin and 5-10 yards shorter on some swings. I went back to my fitting 3 years ago numbers that were on a trackman at a Club Champion fitting where the numbers were quite different including a much lower swing speed and better smash factor, image of those attached below. Do remember the fitting bay felt too small behind me and felt like I was swinging slower worried about it the whole time. That fitting was done after 8 years of almost no playing since high school golf so swing speed and other factors should improve some but these are big differences. Will say also that the current setup with the epic playing 11.5 degrees with the oban gold has kept me extremely straight with barely any penalty shots, but with how much I've gotten back into it worried I'm leaving a lot of distance on the table. Sorry for the long response, wanted to give as much info as I can.

 

pga superstore 118 club speed 160 ball speed, 14.2 launch, 3373 spin, carry 271.7, total 275.4

Edited October 22, 2020 by golfdaddio3

[golfdaddio3]

@Hack Daddy I went 2" longer and also put 20g of hotmelt in the head, with a 1" tipped Rogue silver... So, one size doesn't fit all.

 

Thanks for the reply, that's insanely different, longer and the hot melt and tipped. In my fitting I couldn't even wield a 45" driver even being a bit over 6' tall and playing 1/2" longer irons so more power to ya, bet you bomb that thing.

[Valtiel]

6 hours ago, therealjonzone said:

Honestly, is there anyone better right now at advice on this forum from a quantitative perspective than @Valtiel?

just love this dude....

But in all seriousness, that is a very nice to say, thanks ❤️
 

5 hours ago, golfdaddio3 said:

@Valtiel @therealjonzone thanks for the responses. I looked closer and see there may be some inaccuracies, these first numbers are from a pga superstore bay where I paid like $10 for an hour and that shot was a good sample with actually higher spin and 5-10 yards shorter on some swings. I went back to my fitting 3 years ago numbers that were on a trackman at a Club Champion fitting where the numbers were quite different including a much lower swing speed and better smash factor, image of those attached below. Do remember the fitting bay felt too small behind me and felt like I was swinging slower worried about it the whole time. That fitting was done after 8 years of almost no playing since high school golf so swing speed and other factors should improve some but these are big differences. Will say also that the current setup with the epic playing 11.5 degrees with the oban gold has kept me extremely straight with barely any penalty shots, but with how much I've gotten back into it worried I'm leaving a lot of distance on the table. Sorry for the long response, wanted to give as much info as I can.

 

pga superstore 118 club speed 160 ball speed, 14.2 launch, 3373 spin, carry 271.7, total 275.4

That is interesting, because aside from the 2017 M1, those are perfect efficiency numbers and quite low spin, so I would maybe question the accuracy of the readings you are getting now. Do you feel that 118mph swing speed is accurate? That is quite a jump from the numbers three years ago, even with the concerns about the smaller bay. Not that that is unheard of or anything, but hitting 160 ball speed after being in the low/mid 150's three years ago is a nice increase, but with a decent strike at 118mph then you should be at least 175, and that is a MASSIVE increase from 3 years ago, so I definitely think something is up with the measurements. 

I am familiar with PGASS and their various bays and measurement tools, so there are two possibilities there. One, you paid time to use the GCQuad ($10 seems too cheap for that though) and they would have needed to put sensor dots on your clubface to read clubhead speed, otherwise it just gives ball data. Two, you used one of the hourly practice bays that has the cheaper aboutGOLF simulator/radar, which as I am typing this i'm realizing that is likely the case. Having used those at my local PGASS, at least how they had them calibrated, they were NOT accurate. They overestimated clubhead speed by 10-12mph, measured spin easily 500rpm high, and since you have to use their marked up test balls you are subject to their (poor) performance. I have hit my driver on that system and their GCQuad on the same day to confirm that in the past, so if that is where you got your numbers from then they are likely way off in the same way mine were, and I actually recommend booking something like their 90min gapping session which is done on the GCQuad to get some legit numbers. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Valtiel

[Stuart_G]

9 hours ago, Quebec Club Ho said:

This is something I've been trying to find information on...tipping driver shafts and BBTG measurements

So what I've found from my research and asking questions is that:

Ping heads have a small BBTG measurement

Callaway and TM have some of the highest measurements.

So that would make sense with Krt22's comment that TM tips their shafts 1" ( to make shaft play to 'flex'

I guess you need to find out what the BBTG measurements are - then figure out how much to tip your driver shaft. 

I custom ordered a cobra SZX with a Di 6 and I found out cobra doesn't tip their shafts - and it played too soft for me. Previously played a Ping G400 max with a Di 6 from a TM M1 - tipped one inch - perfect for my swing. I thought it'd be the same. 

So I'm with the OP....what to do????

 

 

The historical "standard" BBGM for a driver is 1.5".   Most TM and cally drivers have a BBGM of 1.75".    That's only 1/4" over standard.   A very rare few TM's might have a BBGM of 2.0"  which might warrant 1/2" of tipping.     But there is nothing about the design of the TM heads (or any other major OEM driver) that would come close to warranting a full 1" of tipping.    Before the 410's most ping's did have a BBGM of 1.5".

 

The DI plays soft for you because it is soft for you,  you can't blame the heads.   Usually that means finding a shaft with a stiffer profile but if tipping that particular shaft works for you, nothing wrong with that approach either.  It's just not any kind of indication that anyone else needs to tip any particular shaft.

 

Tipping is all about manipulating the feel, not the launch/spin.   So if a shaft feels a bit too soft to you and you're having a hard time finding a shaft that isn't too soft, then it might be time to start tipping.

[SAM_PGA]

13 hours ago, golfdaddio3 said:

Nice to see couple of you are and have been.

 

Do like that suggestion of tipping some cheap shafts, may can even find one tipped with some ebay searches but nothing I saw yet.

 

Btw numbers from one a pic I had are 118 club speed 160 ball speed, 14.2 launch, 3373 spin, carry 271.7, total 275.4. Not sure if those numbers would help on knowing to tip or not. Those are with an epic 10.5 turned up a degree with oban kiyoshi gold 75x shaft

@golfdaddio3 before you go tipping shafts and dropping coin, turn that loft down to around 9º.  I would be astonished if you didn't see increased ball speed, slightly lower launch and a decrease in spin.  What's the fun in hitting every fairway!?!?!?!  Take the new PGA Tour driving mentality to the course... wouldn't you rather hit a 9/PW from the rough than a 7i from the fairway 😉 

[Krt22]

15 hours ago, golfdaddio3 said:

@Valtiel @therealjonzone thanks for the responses. I looked closer and see there may be some inaccuracies, these first numbers are from a pga superstore bay where I paid like $10 for an hour and that shot was a good sample with actually higher spin and 5-10 yards shorter on some swings. I went back to my fitting 3 years ago numbers that were on a trackman at a Club Champion fitting where the numbers were quite different including a much lower swing speed and better smash factor, image of those attached below. Do remember the fitting bay felt too small behind me and felt like I was swinging slower worried about it the whole time. That fitting was done after 8 years of almost no playing since high school golf so swing speed and other factors should improve some but these are big differences. Will say also that the current setup with the epic playing 11.5 degrees with the oban gold has kept me extremely straight with barely any penalty shots, but with how much I've gotten back into it worried I'm leaving a lot of distance on the table. Sorry for the long response, wanted to give as much info as I can.

 

pga superstore 118 club speed 160 ball speed, 14.2 launch, 3373 spin, carry 271.7, total 275.4

All of those spin numbers are approximated and the smash numbers inflated because CC doesnt do a great job setting up their trackman for indoor use (ie using metal stickers to get reliable spin numbers). 118CHS and 160 ball speed is also way off, Im guessing you were on a foresight monitor and it was set to an iron with a preset smash factor (1.35). You are probably closer to 110ish mph

[Quebec Club Ho]

12 hours ago, Stuart_G said:

 

The historical "standard" BBGM for a driver is 1.5".   Most TM and cally drivers have a BBGM of 1.75".    That's only 1/4" over standard.   A very rare few TM's might have a BBGM of 2.0"  which might warrant 1/2" of tipping.     But there is nothing about the design of the TM heads (or any other major OEM driver) that would come close to warranting a full 1" of tipping.    Before the 410's most ping's did have a BBGM of 1.5".

 

The DI plays soft for you because it is soft for you,  you can't blame the heads.   Usually that means finding a shaft with a stiffer profile but if tipping that particular shaft works for you, nothing wrong with that approach either.  It's just not any kind of indication that anyone else needs to tip any particular shaft.

 

Tipping is all about manipulating the feel, not the launch/spin.   So if a shaft feels a bit too soft to you and you're having a hard time finding a shaft that isn't too soft, then it might be time to start tipping.

HI Stuart, thanks again for the response as I have mentioned this on a previous thread. Do you think it would help us if OEM's stated BBTG measurements? We can then know how a particular shaft would play in any head. So if OEM A has a BBTG of 1" and OEM B is at 1 1/2", shaft X would be in essence soft stepped in OEM B. Maybe most of us won't notice? But some of us would like to have that information?

Just my thoughts.

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, Quebec Club Ho said:

HI Stuart, thanks again for the response as I have mentioned this on a previous thread. Do you think it would help us if OEM's stated BBTG measurements? We can then know how a particular shaft would play in any head. So if OEM A has a BBTG of 1" and OEM B is at 1 1/2", shaft X would be in essence soft stepped in OEM B. Maybe most of us won't notice? But some of us would like to have that information?

Just my thoughts.

 

Sure it might be nice but now that there are almost no bore-through designs, it's not really that significant of an influence.  Chosen playing length and resulting head weight (after fitting for swing weight) are actually going to be much more important specs to pay attention to in how they might influence the shaft's performance and feel.  And that's something that can only really be determined during the fitting process.  So if those specs do result in any issues with stiffness feel for any given shaft it would (or should) normally would be easily identified during the same fitting process.

[IL2AZ]

19 hours ago, therealjonzone said:

Honestly, is there anyone better right now at advice on this forum from a quantitative perspective than @Valtiel?

just love this dude....

No, there is not.  He is a wealth of information and a true asset to this forum.  Had helped me via PM multiple times.

[nsxguy]

On 10/21/2020 at 5:38 PM, golfdaddio3 said:

Btw numbers from one a pic I had are 118 club speed 160 ball speed, 14.2 launch, 3373 spin, carry 271.7, total 275.4. Not sure if those numbers would help on knowing to tip or not. Those are with an epic 10.5 turned up a degree with oban kiyoshi gold 75x shaft

 

As @Krt22 was pointing out your smash factor (center contact) seems to be poor (1.47 X SS is pretty good). Your ball speed s/b in the 173mph range. Same with your spin rate. Much too high. Here is an approximation from flightscope.com that gives you an idea...................

 

[Krt22]

15 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

As @Krt22 was pointing out your smash factor (center contact) seems to be poor (1.47 X SS is pretty good). Your ball speed s/b in the 173mph range. Same with your spin rate. Much too high. Here is an approximation from flightscope.com that gives you an idea...................

 

Yeah my main point is he just isnt swinging at PGA tour speeds based on those ball speeds, thus tipping the shaft an inch like them might not be the remedy. Based on the spin and launch, it sounds more like a strike issue

[golfdaddio3]

@Valtiel @nsxguy thanks for the replies again. Looking back at the trackman numbers from a few years ago and regularly seeing 1.51 smash factor I'm thinking the problem with the recent stuff was just inaccurate numbers on the cheaper practice bay simulator at PGASS. Feel like the swing speed was overexaggerated which got me worried about the numbers.

 

As for the tipping part going to just keep an eye out for x-stiff tipped shafts on ebay and see if I can try a few out without breaking the bank.

 

The 90 minute gapping session is a great idea. Think I'm going to get a lesson or two then make it there for one of those, need it pretty bad for irons as well.

[A.Princey]

On 10/21/2020 at 5:01 PM, getitdaily said:

If you don't have launch or spin issues (too high) then don't tip. But if you need to reduce launch by about a degree and reduce spin by a couple hundred rpm then tipping can help you. That's all it's for...changing launch conditions.

 

It will help a shaft feel stiffer, but not usually by a lot. 

That and feel, changes feel a ton in some shafts.

[Stuart_G]

8 hours ago, A.Princey said:

That and feel, changes feel a ton in some shafts.

 

100% feel.

[Valtiel]

13 hours ago, golfdaddio3 said:

@Valtiel @nsxguy thanks for the replies again. Looking back at the trackman numbers from a few years ago and regularly seeing 1.51 smash factor I'm thinking the problem with the recent stuff was just inaccurate numbers on the cheaper practice bay simulator at PGASS. Feel like the swing speed was overexaggerated which got me worried about the numbers.

 

As for the tipping part going to just keep an eye out for x-stiff tipped shafts on ebay and see if I can try a few out without breaking the bank.

 

The 90 minute gapping session is a great idea. Think I'm going to get a lesson or two then make it there for one of those, need it pretty bad for irons as well.

No problem! And yeah I highly recommend it, just make sure to lightly warm up beforehand and feel free to dictate exactly what you want from the session. The advertise it as a 12 club gapping session, but unless there are some local rules, you can do whatever you want with it. I have done gapping with my irons, driving irons/fairway woods, and specific driver testing. You could even do ball testing if you wanted. The guy operating the GCQuad will categorize whatever you want categorized and they'll give you a detailed print out at the end for your reference.