How important is swing speed really?

[The Black Rabbit]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

A decent putter can easily adjust to the "feel" of an unfamiliar golf ball after 20 minutes on the practice green and a round of golf. Playing a ball whose long-game spin, trajectory or distance and/or its short-game control are less than optimum just because it "feels" good off the putter would be nuts. 

Feels good to you off your putter and wedges. All your scoring clubs in fact - just the putter will be your main scoring club of course.

 

Not just fitters that'll tell you this. Lots of pros will do too.

3 Perthshire pros all told me the same thing.

 

It isn't just the 'feel' off the putter and wedges, it's the confidence that you can do with this specific ball what you want with it... and it will react consistently for you with your specific putter face and weight and your specific short game clubs. It's a very personal choice. May even come down to something silly even for some. (Not just the sound and feel off the face but perhaps the matt or gloss finish or colour or line-up line or truvis design making the ball look bigger?! combined). Golf is all about confidence. The ball is often a big part in that. 

 

So your ball of choice may well be a tour ball for 'grab' or even 'clickiness' ... or you may prefer something else. Whatever floats your boat ... but with the scoring clubs.

 

Yup. Choose your ball from the pin backwards rather than from the tee forwards.  Makes perfect sense to me.

 

At least far more sense (to me) than basing your ball choice firstly on how fast you think you're swinging it on any particular day with any particular club in any particular conditions.

 

[North Butte]

If by "feels good" you mean "reacts the way you want it to in the short game" or "lets you judge how the ball will react on wedge shots" then sure, that's important. I mean heck yeah, it feels great to drop a pitch shot right on your landing spot, it checks up once then trickles forward to stone dead at the hole. Control like that makes us feel great because it gives results.

 

But every single day on this forum you read people saying some version of, "I putted with [fill in the blank ball] for a few minutes and I just LOVE the way it feels coming off the putter". That sort of thing isn't worth trading off performance in other areas, not even a little bit. 

 

On the list of important performance aspects of a golf ball, the click or sound it makes when struck with a putter is way, way, way down the list. That is, way down the list if what you care about is results and scoring.

[The Black Rabbit]

Choose your ball from the pin backwards not from the tee forwards.

[bluedot]

1 hour ago, North Butte said:

If by "feels good" you mean "reacts the way you want it to in the short game" or "lets you judge how the ball will react on wedge shots" then sure, that's important. I mean heck yeah, it feels great to drop a pitch shot right on your landing spot, it checks up once then trickles forward to stone dead at the hole. Control like that makes us feel great because it gives results.

 

But every single day on this forum you read people saying some version of, "I putted with [fill in the blank ball] for a few minutes and I just LOVE the way it feels coming off the putter". That sort of thing isn't worth trading off performance in other areas, not even a little bit. 

 

On the list of important performance aspects of a golf ball, the click or sound it makes when struck with a putter is way, way, way down the list. That is, way down the list if what you care about is results and scoring.

 

Spot on, though it will fall on deaf ears.

 

Someday, I'm going to compile a list of all the crazy s**t guys on here say about golf balls.  A lot of it is just mind boggling, like the idea that if you don't generate a lot of spin, you are somehow better off with a ball that spins less.  Or the idea that somehow an inconsistent player is better off with an inconsistent ball.  I could go on, but my blood pressure goes up too fast...

[Hoyoymac]

It is interesting how widespread golf club fitting has become, yet golf ball fitting hasn’t caught on to the same extent.  Ironic since the golf ball is the one piece of equipment used for every shot.

 

There are lots of options in the golf ball market with price, quality, cosmetics, feel, distance and spin all being differentiating factors.

 

Color, dimple patterns, alignment aids, in addition to popularity, marketing and a brand culture add to the mix.

 

Depending on how you deliver the golf club to the ball determines many things related to performance.  Speed, spin and launch angle have a lot to do with the trajectory, peak height, carry distance, landing angle and dispersion of the golf ball.

 

Some golfers need a golf ball that will spin more to help them keep the ball in the air to get more distance.  Some need a golf ball that will spin less to get more distance and avoid ballooning.  Some want the golf ball to fly higher or lower.  Some love a marshmallow soft feel off of the putter and others want a hard click.  Some need a ball that will help with dispersion.

 

If you look at where most shots are taken during a round of golf and then prioritize the golf ball based on that then putting would have to be a top priority with about 30 - 40% of shots per round.  Driving with 15 - 20% of shots taken would also be important.  Scoring shots within 100 yards and around the green make up a goodly number of an amateurs shots as well.

 

What seems to me to be the most important part of picking a golf ball is making the commitment to stick with one golf ball for every shot, every time.  If you hit the same golf ball all the time you will develop a sense for how the ball reacts.  Does it spin back on iron shots or does it release?  Does it check up on chip shots?  How far does it roll for a certain length putter swing?  What is the normal carry for your driver with that ball and the gapping for your irons?

 

It really doesn’t matter whether you pay $18 for 2 dozen balls or $50 for 1 dozen.  If you play the same ball all the time you will know what to expect.

 

Playing found balls is a good way to get exposed to a variety of golf balls without having to commit to buying a sleeve or a box.  

 

But once you find a few that you like that give you the distance, spin, trajectory and feel that you prefer, take the plunge and play one of them from now on.  

 

My guess is that your scores will improve once you do.

 

 

 

 

[Fairway14]

On 10/21/2020 at 1:33 PM, JD77 said:

 

 

How much does swing speed really matter when choosing a golf ball?

 

 

 

 

What matters is that the player makes  a swing which produces quality square contact with the ball . If a player does that than any ball will produce a fine shot.

[bluedot]

48 minutes ago, Hoyoymac said:

It is interesting how widespread golf club fitting has become, yet golf ball fitting hasn’t caught on to the same extent.  Ironic since the golf ball is the one piece of equipment used for every shot.

 

There are lots of options in the golf ball market with price, quality, cosmetics, feel, distance and spin all being differentiating factors.

 

Color, dimple patterns, alignment aids, in addition to popularity, marketing and a brand culture add to the mix.

 

Depending on how you deliver the golf club to the ball determines many things related to performance.  Speed, spin and launch angle have a lot to do with the trajectory, peak height, carry distance, landing angle and dispersion of the golf ball.

 

Some golfers need a golf ball that will spin more to help them keep the ball in the air to get more distance.  Some need a golf ball that will spin less to get more distance and avoid ballooning.  Some want the golf ball to fly higher or lower.  Some love a marshmallow soft feel off of the putter and others want a hard click.  Some need a ball that will help with dispersion.

 

If you look at where most shots are taken during a round of golf and then prioritize the golf ball based on that then putting would have to be a top priority with about 30 - 40% of shots per round.  Driving with 15 - 20% of shots taken would also be important.  Scoring shots within 100 yards and around the green make up a goodly number of an amateurs shots as well.

 

What seems to me to be the most important part of picking a golf ball is making the commitment to stick with one golf ball for every shot, every time.  If you hit the same golf ball all the time you will develop a sense for how the ball reacts.  Does it spin back on iron shots or does it release?  Does it check up on chip shots?  How far does it roll for a certain length putter swing?  What is the normal carry for your driver with that ball and the gapping for your irons?

 

It really doesn’t matter whether you pay $18 for 2 dozen balls or $50 for 1 dozen.  If you play the same ball all the time you will know what to expect.

 

Playing found balls is a good way to get exposed to a variety of golf balls without having to commit to buying a sleeve or a box.  

 

But once you find a few that you like that give you the distance, spin, trajectory and feel that you prefer, take the plunge and play one of them from now on.  

 

My guess is that your scores will improve once you do.

 

 

 

 

 

I think there are a couple of reasons that golf ball fitting hasn't caught on like club fitting has.

 

First, and most importantly, the laws of physics AND the USGA govern golf balls, and every manufacturer is dealing with those two sets of laws in pretty much the same way.  There is a "sweet spot" of launch angle and spin rate that gives optimal distance, and it's the same for any manufacturer, which is why there is so little difference in those things and the resulting distance off the tee regardless of which ball you are using, or it's price.  Give a decent golfer 20 different balls with no logos, and plug their ears so that they can't hear the sound the ball makes, and they'd have no idea which ball was the $50/doz ball and which one is sold in 18 ball packs at Walmart.  (Not so around the green; more on that later...)

 

The second reason, I think, is that the various fitting "tools" that are available for golf balls are mostly offered by the manufacturers to help you pick between their golf balls only.  There isn't much way to compare a ProV1x to a TP5x that way, other than either looking at the independent testing data or trying them yourself. 

 

But really, I think that is all mostly irrelevant anyway.  The choice in golf balls really just comes down to what you want to spend for spin and consistency; the rest of it is just noise and a heavy dose of rationalization.  A lot of spin and consistency costs a lot of money, a little bit of spin and a lot of inconsistency doesn't cost much, and there are a multitude of options in between.  But that's really the decision.  And that's where our decent golfer (not a tour pro; just a decent golfer) with plugged ears and no-logo balls WOULD be able to tell the difference between the high end, low end, and middle price range of golf balls; not by the sound, or the "feel", but what the ball DOES off the club.

 

You are 100% correct that it's FAR more important that you play the ProV1x, or the TP5x, or whatever ball you choose, ALL THE TIME than which ball you are playing.  A good player will learn to play a Pinnacle, and a bad player won't become a good player by playing a ProV1x, but both will have at least some idea what to expect from their ball on chips and pitches and putts if it's the same ball all the time.

[Andygolderson]

Very interesting topic, in my opinion, none of the statics really matter. Either it's not really relevant enough to apply to everyone, or technology over time has advances so much that it's now all about design.

 

I like to choose my ball based on feel - alone.

 

Recently, i've started to think more about compression, speed, design and which ball to use, since recently realising i have a 110-117mph swing speed. By definition, this places me into the high compression ball area, which tend to be fast and expensive.

However, if i'm still making 300+ yard drives with a soft ball, designed for 80mph swing speed, do i really need to, or want to change that ?

 

I would also recommend others play a ball based on feel, rather than what you're being told. Fittings might work for the majority of people, however, i personally don't belive in playing a brand, a club, a material, a shaft, a look, or a sound that i don't like.

When it's comes to training Technique, then i can see a different story to bring real game improvements.

 

All modern clubs and now balls are marketting and targetting the same thing : huge distance gains, low spin off the tee, high spin and unrivalled control around the green. But how are you hitting the ball ?

 

I don't think anyone can really say there is one particular ball for them. I would be willing to bet in such a case, that you'd never actually given enough time and energy into trying enough other balls to make a clear judgement. Try 10 different brands over 2 or 3 compressions and materials. 

 

swing speed doesn't matter.

[bluedot]

10 hours ago, Andygolderson said:

Very interesting topic, in my opinion, none of the statics really matter. Either it's not really relevant enough to apply to everyone, or technology over time has advances so much that it's now all about design.

 

I like to choose my ball based on feel - alone.

 

Recently, i've started to think more about compression, speed, design and which ball to use, since recently realising i have a 110-117mph swing speed. By definition, this places me into the high compression ball area, which tend to be fast and expensive.

However, if i'm still making 300+ yard drives with a soft ball, designed for 80mph swing speed, do i really need to, or want to change that ?

 

I would also recommend others play a ball based on feel, rather than what you're being told. Fittings might work for the majority of people, however, i personally don't belive in playing a brand, a club, a material, a shaft, a look, or a sound that i don't like.

When it's comes to training Technique, then i can see a different story to bring real game improvements.

 

All modern clubs and now balls are marketting and targetting the same thing : huge distance gains, low spin off the tee, high spin and unrivalled control around the green. But how are you hitting the ball ?

 

I don't think anyone can really say there is one particular ball for them. I would be willing to bet in such a case, that you'd never actually given enough time and energy into trying enough other balls to make a clear judgement. Try 10 different brands over 2 or 3 compressions and materials. 

 

swing speed doesn't matter.

 

Just as food for thought, this quote is from the MGS 2019 ball test, which is one of the two most thorough independent tests out there:

 

"Forget About Soft Feel

Driver, putters, golf balls, it doesn’t matter; golfers are obsessed with feel, and it might be hurting your game. For golfers who swing 85 MPH or more, if your first purchase criteria is feel, you’re setting yourself back from the get-go. The softest balls are typically the best feeling, but they’re also slower and lower spinning. It should be obvious enough, but performance, not feel, should be your primary consideration."

[dlygrisse]

How the ball reacts on short pitches, and the launch characteristics are most important to me.  As someone who has very average swing speed, I still gravitate to higher compression balls because they generally perform better in most aspects of the game, they just don’t feel/sound as soft.  
 

There are also some studies out there that suggest a harder ball is always a faster ball regardless of swing speed, therefore longer.  YMMV. 

[North Butte]

I truly can't understand why the difference between a slightly clickier sound versus a more muffled sound at impact matters at all to people. But it is apparently one thing that sells more golf clubs and golf balls than any other characteristic. A mystery, is what it is.

[SwooshLT]

4 hours ago, North Butte said:

I truly can't understand why the difference between a slightly clickier sound versus a more muffled sound at impact matters at all to people. But it is apparently one thing that sells more golf clubs and golf balls than any other characteristic. A mystery, is what it is.

 

You ever hit a Molitor?  

[North Butte]

I learned to play golf with Dunlop DDH distance rocks. I think they were a box of 18 for $15 or something like that. 

[The Black Rabbit]

On 11/13/2020 at 3:29 AM, Andygolderson said:

Very interesting topic, in my opinion, none of the statics really matter. Either it's not really relevant enough to apply to everyone, or technology over time has advances so much that it's now all about design.

 

I like to choose my ball based on feel - alone.

 

Recently, i've started to think more about compression, speed, design and which ball to use, since recently realising i have a 110-117mph swing speed. By definition, this places me into the high compression ball area, which tend to be fast and expensive.

However, if i'm still making 300+ yard drives with a soft ball, designed for 80mph swing speed, do i really need to, or want to change that ?

 

I would also recommend others play a ball based on feel, rather than what you're being told. Fittings might work for the majority of people, however, i personally don't belive in playing a brand, a club, a material, a shaft, a look, or a sound that i don't like.

When it's comes to training Technique, then i can see a different story to bring real game improvements.

 

All modern clubs and now balls are marketting and targetting the same thing : huge distance gains, low spin off the tee, high spin and unrivalled control around the green. But how are you hitting the ball ?

 

I don't think anyone can really say there is one particular ball for them. I would be willing to bet in such a case, that you'd never actually given enough time and energy into trying enough other balls to make a clear judgement. Try 10 different brands over 2 or 3 compressions and materials. 

 

swing speed doesn't matter.

Absolutely *this*

[Fairway14]

On 11/12/2020 at 6:05 AM, bluedot said:

.  A good player will learn to play a Pinnacle, and a bad player won't become a good player by playing a ProV1x, but both will have at least some idea what to expect from their ball on chips and pitches and putts if it's the same ball all the time.

 

Yes and no. Specifically, what truly matters to all golf shots is quality of contact at impact. In other words, when the chips, pitches, or putts are mishit

no ball can save the shot.

[Fairway14]

14 hours ago, North Butte said:

I truly can't understand why the difference between a slightly clickier sound versus a more muffled sound at impact matters at all to people. But it is apparently one thing that sells more golf clubs and golf balls than any other characteristic. A mystery, is what it is.

 

"Clickier" is synonymous with loud. Most people prefer a muted sound to a loud-metallic sound. Remember, sound equals "feel".

[pktaske]

17 hours ago, North Butte said:

I truly can't understand why the difference between a slightly clickier sound versus a more muffled sound at impact matters at all to people. But it is apparently one thing that sells more golf clubs and golf balls than any other characteristic. A mystery, is what it is.

The sound of a Top Flight putt is simply...off-putting!

[jons1]

Bridegstone had a great marketing plan to get folks to try their golf balls, and convince folks they are in the wrong ball.  It worked really well for them, while completely confusing and misrepresenting the science behind how a golf ball compresses.  On one hand, I congratulate them for the brilliant marketing, on the other hand, shame on them for flat out lying to golfers.

 

Don't choose a ball based on clubhead speed.