BST Deal gone bad - Head Failure - Please Help

[Colej]

1 minute ago, Mbarry212 said:

Here is the damage to the box along with the contents used to protect the club during shipping. 

Is this the first time you’ve received a club from anyone? Pretty much standard procedure to wrap the head in bubble wrap and package around the shaft to keep it from bouncing around. 
 

Not a head failure, where there was crown separation or weld failure. 

it’s a bad deal for both parties involved. 

 

[brew4eagle]

Ugh, tough one as that box damage looks bad.  Hopefully parties can work something out.

[third-times-a-charm]

27 minutes ago, brew4eagle said:

Ugh, tough one as that box damage looks bad.  Hopefully parties can work something out.

I've gotten all manner of boxes/shafts from various sellers and that doesnt look bad at all.

 

I've had boxes with only 1 shaft in them basically leaning over 20 degrees and flimsy - and the shaft was in tact (probably holding the box up).

 

I've also had boxes with snapped shafts inside that didnt have any markings, and boxes that looked like it was LITERALLY ran over by a plane tire (thanks UPS) and it was also very crushed/broken.

 

YMMV

[brew4eagle]

13 minutes ago, third-times-a-charm said:

I've gotten all manner of boxes/shafts from various sellers and that doesnt look bad at all.

 

I've had boxes with only 1 shaft in them basically leaning over 20 degrees and flimsy - and the shaft was in tact (probably holding the box up).

 

I've also had boxes with snapped shafts inside that didnt have any markings, and boxes that looked like it was LITERALLY ran over by a plane tire (thanks UPS) and it was also very crushed/broken.

 

YMMV

I think the smaller mark in the middle of the damage looks like it could have been significant impact force, but you're right, no way to really know.  I've also received mangled boxes with clubs that somehow survived, fortunately I haven't received broken clubs in undamaged boxes.

[Boogs2]

51 minutes ago, brew4eagle said:

Ugh, tough one as that box damage looks bad.  Hopefully parties can work something out.

 

Wait...that's bad box damage?  I've had some that were ripped, partially torn, or had tire marks on the box and somehow the shaft survived intact.  That looks like normal wear/creases on a box.

 

Judging from that creasing on the box, I wouldnt think the driver head would fail like shown in the pic on the first page.  If this case was a shaft snapping anywhere near the midpoint, then the buyer would have justification in saying something.  

 

The only possible way I see anything happening is seller helps buyer file a claim with Cobra.  

[golffeen007]

Looks like "ok" adequate packaging if the headcover isn't included. Seen much worse. 

I'd tend to think if the head was crushed in that bubble bag , the bubble wrap would also be busted on the inside of the bag. This box doesn't look as if the damage could be caused from a box that looks like that , but anything could happen. 

[Togatown22]

Seller; did you pay for extra insurance with USPS to properly value the club?  If so, this could be as easy as filing a claim with USPS.  In my experience they make good on the insurance quickly.  Might be the easiest way to make everyone "whole" on this one.  

[bubbagump]

Even though the box doesn't look like its near damaged enough to produce that on the head, I think the main focus on the packaging would be inside.  If that was done to the head via transit, there would have to be shards/flakes of CF inside or the resulting soft spot be immediately apparent upon first glance . 

 

Somehow if not, certainly enough signs that most anybody would be able to immediately tell that the head was damaged to where it would just implode after 10 swings.  

Edited October 22, 2020 by bubbagump

[AzSuperHack76]

That type of damage would have been noticeable right out of the package. The type of damage pictured looks self inflicted. 

[brew4eagle]

5 minutes ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

That type of damage would have been noticeable right out of the package. The type of damage pictured looks self inflicted. 

What if there was just a small ding/damage on the back edge where the gapping hole now is?  Could a small ding/damage cause enough underlying structural damage to the carbon fiber to lead to what happened?  If that box truly had that damage to it upon arrival, and that damage is in the vicinity of where the back edge of the head was, then I see it as possible.

[sethdavidsdad]

No way that kind of damage happened from hitting a ball. 

[Krt22]

Im not seeing how that damage to the box could have caused that sort of damage to the head, or even a small crack that propagated once the head was hit. Based on the shape of the driver and where the damage on the head is, it just doesn't match. I can't see how that flat-ish side of the driver would be close enough to the corner of the box to be impacted.

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, third-times-a-charm said:

I've gotten all manner of boxes/shafts from various sellers and that doesnt look bad at all.

 

I've had boxes with only 1 shaft in them basically leaning over 20 degrees and flimsy - and the shaft was in tact (probably holding the box up).

 

I've also had boxes with snapped shafts inside that didnt have any markings, and boxes that looked like it was LITERALLY ran over by a plane tire (thanks UPS) and it was also very crushed/broken.

 

YMMV

Agreed, that is pretty standard. I too have received tons of boxes in far worse condition and have yet to have a head or shaft break

[Nixhex524]

That damage looks an awful lot like the size of an actual golf ball.  Either it got hit backwards, or a playing partner hit an errant shot that clipped this club while in the bag but that shape looks very consistent with a golf ball.  I would think that with the way these heads are designed there is NO way that is the weakest point of the design.  That is something else all together.... no way this is on you as the seller...  Sorry buyer, SOL... How do you examine the club "closely" and not see that kind of damage if it was there when it arrived?  Had you received it like that and NOT hit it at the range I could see the issue but since you hit it multiple times I fail to see what the seller can do here.  My guess is you saw pics before purchasing... ??

[Nixhex524]

36 minutes ago, AzSuperHack76 said:

That type of damage would have been noticeable right out of the package. The type of damage pictured looks self inflicted. 

This.  For the carbon to rip apart like that, there would HAVE to be noticeable damage upon immediate inspection... how do you go the the range and hit balls and not notice this....

[D0ch0l1d4y]

Where is the missing Carbon? The chunk that's missing from the head? That part of the head is very strong structurally (you can see the heavy duty laminate layer) and it's not near any sharp turns/curves that would be a weak point.

 

Even IF Mjolnir WAS dropped on it in transit - that high polished finish would show LOTS of obvious paint cracking/chipping/etc. 

On top of all of that - if it only took a dozen swings for it to "explode" - you'd hear the the tone of the ball coming off the head change with every single strike.

[Gsea]

If I receive a pkg in that condition you can bet i'm going over the product with a fine tooth comb especially if I paid good money for it.

[golfwb]

Not saying one way or another, but a buddy accidently hit a rock tee marker with his epic and this is exactly what it looked like.

[MFBach]

I’ve received boxes in much worse shape with little to no noticeable damage. Obviously no one really knows what happened here except the buyer, so your best bet, as mentioned, is to contact USPS. They might honor the claim and provide some compensation. 
 

That being said, no one with any experience at all is going to believe that the damage in that picture wasn’t noticeable when it was opened. Furthermore, any minor damage incurred during shipping is extremely unlikely to cause that kind of failure. I’ve broken clubs intentionally and accidentally, and I’ve never seen anything like that. 

[Nixhex524]

12 hours ago, Mbarry212 said:

Seller(raskal21) forgot to mention that he shipped the club without more than a flimsy bag over the head. Damage was seen on the box in the exact location of the damage to the club but no external damage was seen on the club when unboxed.  With no way to tell if the club had been damaged, it was taken to the range and after hitting a few balls, the extent of the damage became obvious. 

Sfd732's point makes it painfully obvious that the club was damaged during transit but the full extent was not seen until used. I NEVER asked for a refund, just asked for help with either contacting cobra or usps to help in finding a resolution. 

I really dont understand.... did you see anything before you hit balls?  Did the back of the club explode off upon hitting?  Or are you saying this must have been the way it came right out of the box?  What did the club look like when you took it out of the box?  I can see if you received it with a cover and just threw it in your bag and went straight to the range, maybe you wouldnt have noticed it but when you tee a ball up and lay the club down behind it, how do you not see that? LOL

[dcfball88]

I could see where if there is evidence the package was mishandled, like you see visible box damage there, but that act of mishandling, whatever that was, ALSO included impact to the head, then buyer could take it out of the box, get excited to take it to the range and not give it the full inspect, and if nothing had flaked off yet then goes and hits it a few times and THEN the damage becomes apparent.

 

I assume no insurance, or it would have been discussed as the remedy. Always buy the insurance if it’s worth more than the $50.

 

How about buyer shipping it back to the seller- buying the insurance this time, and then filing a claim with USPS?  Ship it back in the exact same box.

[D0ch0l1d4y]

for kicks, here's a shaft I received earlier this year:

 

The shaft (a Hulk - because of course) did survive, but had some fairly obvious indentations where the box was damaged:

 

I immediately let the seller know how it arrived, and after inspection, sent those pics to him. He told me to go ahead and try it if I felt comfortable, which I didn't really, but I had to know:

 

 

s*** happens (seller did refund me as he's a stand up dude), but the key is communication and making sure what you receive is in good shape. Anything I ever sell, as soon as it's delivered I message the buyer and ask them to inspect it to make sure it's arrived safely. I won't be stopping that practice anytime soon. 

 

If it's not obvious, I'm in the camp of - not shipping damage, pound sand, good luck with Cobra.

 

Best of luck in getting some resolution.

[D0ch0l1d4y]

3 minutes ago, dcfball88 said:

 

How about buyer shipping it back to the seller- buying the insurance this time, and then filing a claim with USPS?  Ship it back in the exact same box.

not sure I'd recommend the Mail Fraud route.

[golffeen007]

46 minutes ago, brew4eagle said:

What if there was just a small ding/damage on the back edge where the gapping hole now is?  Could a small ding/damage cause enough underlying structural damage to the carbon fiber to lead to what happened?  If that box truly had that damage to it upon arrival, and that damage is in the vicinity of where the back edge of the head was, then I see it as possible.

My buddy owns a shop/range where he loans demo clubs and I've seen some crazy things walk back in the shop. About 1/3 of his borrowed clubs look about like this after they're returned. Def not from hitting a ball off the face.  

[Boogs2]

I circled an area near the exhaust pipe looking thing.  I dont know if its just me but does that area look like it was dragged on a rough surface?  It looks like the paint has scratched heavily due to some type of mishandling of the club.  It could be a reflection also, but that doesnt look like normal use/wear and tear to me.  It looks that area and the area where the carbon is shredded/torn was hit on the ground imo.

[golffeen007]

3 minutes ago, Boogs2 said:

I circled an area near the exhaust pipe looking thing.  I dont know if its just me but does that area look like it was dragged on a rough surface?  It looks like the paint has scratched heavily due to some type of mishandling of the club.  It could be a reflection also, but that doesnt look like normal use/wear and tear to me.  It looks that area and the area where the carbon is shredded/torn was hit on the ground imo.

Exactly what I said when I saw the back. Wonder if this picture is at the range? If there are some type of standing dividers between hitting spots , could have easily caught one that caused the damage. No way that happened in transit after seeing the box. 

[Boogs2]

1 minute ago, golffeen007 said:

Exactly what I said when I saw the back. Wonder if this picture is at the range? If there are some type of standing dividers between hitting spots , could have easily caught one that caused the damage. No way that happened in transit after seeing the box. 

That's a good point.  Could have been hit on one of the dividers on the hitting bays.

[the bishop]

13 hours ago, Mbarry212 said:

Seller(raskal21) forgot to mention that he shipped the club without more than a flimsy bag over the head. Damage was seen on the box in the exact location of the damage to the club but no external damage was seen on the club when unboxed.  With no way to tell if the club had been damaged, it was taken to the range and after hitting a few balls, the extent of the damage became obvious. 

Sfd732's point makes it painfully obvious that the club was damaged during transit but the full extent was not seen until used. I NEVER asked for a refund, just asked for help with either contacting cobra or usps to help in finding a resolution. 

Actually Sfd732 made it painfully obvious that what we are seeing is impact damage caused by force being applied there to cause the fibers to push inward.  You added the transit part.  "...The second picture shows the carbon fiber being broken inward, not outward. I can only come to the conclusion that the club was subjected to some form of impact from the outside inward. Smashing on ground into tee marker, into a tree, etc..."

[golffeen007]

2 minutes ago, Boogs2 said:

That's a good point.  Could have been hit on one of the dividers on the hitting bays.

I've seen it many times , exactly like this at my buddy's range.  They have a covered area that have dividers/poles for the roof and people smash clubs against the dividers all the time.. backswing and through swing. 

[raskal21]

I appreciate all of the reply’s that have been pretty reasonable and objective (except the mail fraud one).   I have completed a lot of BST transactions.  I feel both the buyer and seller  assume risk in these transactions.  Hell, I’ve sent $1000 sets of irons to people I don’t know.   If that club doesn’t show up, I own it.  If it shows up and is damaged, I own it.  But at some point the buyer assumes the risk and I feel that happened when the club was inspected, no problems identified, and then hit at the range. Even if the close inspection didn’t occur, that’s on the buyer.   I just can’t fathom that the head literally exploded  after a couple swings without one noticeable mark out of the box.

thanks again everyone.  I take pride in my BST etiquette and this one is weighing heavily on me.

Edited October 22, 2020 by raskal21