Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Every person who plays golf recognizes that any duffed, sliced, duck hooked etc... tee ball or other full swing shot is a bad one.

And a bladed chip that runs across the green, a chilly dipped pitch that travels 5 feet, or a skulled bunker shot are also easily recognized as bad shots.

But what about chips or pitches that end up 12 feet from the hole instead of 5 feet ? Or the 8 foot putts that miss the hole all day long? These subtle missed shots cost a stroke just like the more obvious fuller shot misses, but the subtle missed shots  are not as obvious so people don't seem to give them much thought.

My point is that a mishit 7 foot putt that does not scare the hole is just as "bad a shot" as the short and crooked tee shot that finds the rough. Do you agree, disagree ?

  • Like 1

KZG SP700 driver

Srixon F65 3-wood

Srixon H65 3, 4 hybrids

Mizuno MP63 5 thru 9-iron

Cleveland RTX 48-52-56-64 wedges

Scotty Cameron Classic III putter

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 49
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

I often joke that golf is a game of wanting more. If we miss the green then we want to be on the green. If we hit the green then we want to be closer. If we get close then we want it in the hole. I ca

The best way to define this is with a strokes gained basis. Any shot that is a -1 strokes gained is a bad shot. I'd say probably -0.75 is a pretty bad shot too. Even then it depends though. If you mis

A shot which is in the past...

I often joke that golf is a game of wanting more. If we miss the green then we want to be on the green. If we hit the green then we want to be closer. If we get close then we want it in the hole. I can't count the number of times the Mrs. and I have shared the exchange to each other.

 

One of us puts a ball on the green and says......

"Come on......"

"What's wrong with that?"

"I wanted it closer."

"You're on the green, shut the f--- up."

And then we proceed to laugh at ourselves.

 

The reality is that based on ability levels, one player's bad miss is another player's shot of the day.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, chippa13 said:

I often joke that golf is a game of wanting more. If we miss the green then we want to be on the green. If we hit the green then we want to be closer. If we get close then we want it in the hole. I can't count the number of times the Mrs. and I have shared the exchange to each other.

 

One of us puts a ball on the green and says......

"Come on......"

"What's wrong with that?"

"I wanted it closer."

"You're on the green, shut the f--- up."

And then we proceed to laugh at ourselves.

 

The reality is that based on ability levels, one player's bad miss is another player's shot of the day.

 

You got that right.  I was 15 feet from the hole yesterday in deep rough but a fairly clean lie.  Babied the chip and hit it to only 8 feet.  Should have been a tap in.  I made the par putt but still... it was a bad shot.  

 

Next hole a par 3.  Hit 5 iron very well but it leaked a little right.  Playing partners moaned it leaked a little on you.  I was pin high, 15 feet for birdie from 172 yards.  That was a good shot.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

I notice guys believe the weakness in their game is tee shots, full shots etc... However these same players do not get chips and pitches next to the hole and, or, strike solid putts.

There is a common misperception among players that they "have a decent short game" but the reality is that they are not making quality square contact with chips and mishitting putts. I think the reason for the misperception is that a sliced drive or fat 8-iron shot is a more "obvious miss" than a poorly struck 5 foot putt.

  • Like 1

KZG SP700 driver

Srixon F65 3-wood

Srixon H65 3, 4 hybrids

Mizuno MP63 5 thru 9-iron

Cleveland RTX 48-52-56-64 wedges

Scotty Cameron Classic III putter

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Markrip said:

I agree not coming close on a putt of that distance I feels way worse than hitting a bad drive. You can always recover from a bad drive. I think most of us have an expectation that we can make that putt or just miss. 

 

Yes, but is that expectation realistic ?

In other words, on the golf courses I notice as many mishit putts as I do mishit tee shots.

It's actually not easy to make a solid, quality strike of the ball with the putter. In fact for lots of players it is more challenging to strike a putt solid than it is to boom a long straight drive.

KZG SP700 driver

Srixon F65 3-wood

Srixon H65 3, 4 hybrids

Mizuno MP63 5 thru 9-iron

Cleveland RTX 48-52-56-64 wedges

Scotty Cameron Classic III putter

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we expect too much from a success/failure point of view.

Example: how many times have you had a day putting where virtually no first putt falls in?

Usually, you have stroked a number of really good putts that just didn’t fall. People beat themselves up at this, saying things like “I suck at putting”. Lost in this is that the person actually did putt well, just didn’t get rewarded for the efforts.

Yes, there are all the poorly struck iron an wood shots, however, this is simply a function of LOFT with respect to the professional game we admire and aspire.

Everybody that ever picked up a golf club hit poor shots at some time.

Srixon z785 Miyazaki 5544
Taylor Made M6 14.5 Rocket Atmos
Taylor Made SIM 5W Diamana Limited
Taylor Made 4, 5 GAP-HI Hybrids KBS 
Srixon z785 6-PW Nippon Tour 105
Cobra Black MIM 50, 54, 58 Nippon Tour 105
Scotty Cameron Futura X 8
TP5X, Pro V1X

Link to post
Share on other sites

That is forever part of the game. You have to be solid on both aspects. From tee to green and around the green and with the flat stick. You cant succeed in one and think you can slack of on the other. That is why for me, I spend a majority of my time at the short game area. A chip to 2 feet is like hitting a drive in the fairway in my opinion. Watching the Pros on tv just screams how not only how good they are when they hit great shots but their ability to recover when they hit a bad shot. Us normal players, seem to often makes things worse and that is why you see the holes that could have been bogey turn into doubles and on some occasion, triples. 

TaylorMade RBZ Tour 9* Motore 60 S
TaylorMade RBZ 14.5 GD BBS 60S

TaylorMade SLDR 20* Motore 8.3 Tour Spec X

Mizuno921 4-GW SteelFiber I95 Stiff

Cobra MIM Masters Edition 56*

Cleveland Hunington Beach #11 Raw
Vice Pro+ Lime Green Goodness

Link to post
Share on other sites

When we think of bad shots, we usually think of strike quality. When you catch the ball on the bottom groove with an 8 iron and it never gets more than 20 feet off the ground, that's a bad shot...

 

But in reality, it's all results based. If the bladed iron runs and trickles onto the front edge of the green, then you might not have lost any strokes from it. Whereas, the driver that you absolutely crushed but run through the fairway on the dogleg, could cost you a 1/2 to a full stroke. A short chip to 15 feet isnt much better than one to 20 feet, as you are unlikely to make those putts. Unless you are chipping to a distance that gives you a +50% chance of making the putt, you are throwing strokes away. And if you arent making 50% of putts from 6-8 feet, than you really putting alot of pressure on yourself to chip it in tight. Know some basic stats about your short game, because good players threaten the hole with most putts and constantly get up and down. And if you are not, you are dropping nearly a stroke a hole just from inside 20 yards. 

  • Like 1

PING G410+ 9* TPO 60S

Adams XTD 17* Fubuki 

Callaway Apex 20* AD DI 85s

Callaway Apex 23* OBAN Kiyoshi Purple

5-6 Srixon Z585 Modus 120S

7-PW Srixon Z785 Modus 120S

50 Cleveland RTX 4

56 and 60, TM Hi Toe

EVNROLL ER3

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree that a missed 7 footer could be considered a bad shot especially when not struck on the sweet spot of the putter or a really bad read.  My bad shot is the 50 yard hook off the tee with driver that I normally seem to hit 1-2 times a round.  It results in OB at least 40% of the time which is a very high percentage.  If I could limit my blow up holes or not have any at all, I believe I could shave at least 2 strokes off my handicap. 

TM SIM MAX 9* w/Ventus Black 7x

TM SIM 15* w/Ventus Blue 8x

TM Tour Issue Deep Face Ghost Proto 2 HB  w/Thump 105x

Vega VDC-01 4-PW w/Recoil Proto 125 F5

54* Miura HB w/KBS 610 S+

58* Miura w/KBS Tour Black

Scotty Cameron Newport 1

Snell MTB-X

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

My experience is where people draw the line is not only in completely the wrong place, it has a negative affect on score.

 

Many times I calculate people’s scores based on the expectation of every shift they hit.  The average 8 handicap would break 60 regularly.

 

The best way to define this is with a strokes gained basis. Any shot that is a -1 strokes gained is a bad shot. I'd say probably -0.75 is a pretty bad shot too. Even then it depends though. If you miss an 8 foot putt, that's -0.5 strokes, but that's because it's a 50/50 proposition. Make it it's +0.5 and miss it it's -0.5. That doesn't mean it was a bad putt (doesn't mean it wasn't either). If you lose 0.75 strokes because you missed a 5 foot putt, people miss those. Pros miss them roughly 25% of the time. If you lose 0.75 strokes on a 25 foot putt, that's a dreadful shot. 

 

Definitely agree on the expectations though. The number of people who say they putted dreadfully because they missed 6 putts from 15-20 feet in a round (and made 2).

  • Like 2

Ping G400 LST 9° Diamana white 63x
Ping G410 LST 3 wood Diamana Thump
Taylor Made UDI 2 iron Diamana Tensei white 90TX
Titleist 714CB 3, 4
Titleist 714MB 5-PW
Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 52 and 56 WS
Scotty Cameron Newport 2

Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

My experience is where people draw the line is not only in completely the wrong place, it has a negative affect on score.

 

Many times I calculate people’s scores based on the expectation of every shift they hit.  The average 8 handicap would break 60 regularly.

 

Yes. we are very good at seeing the perfect shot, but not the smartest shot.

 

some of us think we are Ronaldo or Messi, and when we have a penalty kick we want to put the ball right into the very top corner of the net with such class that the slow motion replay is destined for an international Adidas commercial. when in reality, even those players are just trying to keep it in control and away from the goalie without risking going outside the posts. and magically, they score at the highest clip.  

PING G410+ 9* TPO 60S

Adams XTD 17* Fubuki 

Callaway Apex 20* AD DI 85s

Callaway Apex 23* OBAN Kiyoshi Purple

5-6 Srixon Z585 Modus 120S

7-PW Srixon Z785 Modus 120S

50 Cleveland RTX 4

56 and 60, TM Hi Toe

EVNROLL ER3

Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Ty_Webb said:

 

The best way to define this is with a strokes gained basis. Any shot that is a -1 strokes gained is a bad shot. I'd say probably -0.75 is a pretty bad shot too. Even then it depends though. If you miss an 8 foot putt, that's -0.5 strokes, but that's because it's a 50/50 proposition. Make it it's +0.5 and miss it it's -0.5. That doesn't mean it was a bad putt (doesn't mean it wasn't either). If you lose 0.75 strokes because you missed a 5 foot putt, people miss those. Pros miss them roughly 25% of the time. If you lose 0.75 strokes on a 25 foot putt, that's a dreadful shot. 

 

Definitely agree on the expectations though. The number of people who say they putted dreadfully because they missed 6 putts from 15-20 feet in a round (and made 2).

I do wish more folks read the strokes gained book, not only to reduce the number of debates on its merits, but to readjust their expectations as well. This goes for putting as well as expected outcome on approach shots as well

Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the OP except for one glaring reality.  We're human, and our golf and putter swing mechanics can be challenging, at times, even for better golfers.  We can never be that good, can we?  

 

Who looks at a 20-30' putt and hits the ball 12' to the right or left of the cup... LOL  I know, I know...  Given the context of errors shared by the OP, most of them lessen as skill improves.  I can't recall hitting any putt 12' in the wrong direction. 

 

Except there are those "BAD" shots that remind us.  A few weeks back I walked onto the 18th tee of what was a relatively benign 155yd Par 3, into a breeze, teed the ball and proceeded to exhibit THE mechanics of a beginner playing with blades.  Got the full effects of a 7MB thinned and shanked OB right.  I did hit it 160yds though, does that count?  That's a really bad shot for me. 

 

Anyway, my playing partners looked at me and couldn't believe it, then we laughed.  One said, you can hand us the $$$ now. 

Edited by Pepperturbo
  • Titleist TS2 9.5, Ventus 5 "S"
  • Titleist TS2 16.5*, Ventus 7 "S"
  • Titleist 718 T-MB 17* 2i, i110cw "S"
  • Titleist 620s - 3i-PW, PX 5.5
  • SM6 F-52/8, PX 5.5
  • SM6 M-58/8, DG-S200
  • SC CA Monterey
  • ProV1 or AVX
Link to post
Share on other sites

The point I was trying to make with this thread is that players instantly recognize a poor tee shot or any other seriously mishit full shot.

But because the mishits of short shots are less obvious, especially putts, I think players tend to believe their short game is "decent, o.k.".

KZG SP700 driver

Srixon F65 3-wood

Srixon H65 3, 4 hybrids

Mizuno MP63 5 thru 9-iron

Cleveland RTX 48-52-56-64 wedges

Scotty Cameron Classic III putter

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

The point I was trying to make with this thread is that players instantly recognize a poor tee shot or any other seriously mishit full shot.

But because the mishits of short shots are less obvious, especially putts, I think players tend to believe their short game is "decent, o.k.".

 

From personal experience, I can assure you that a flubbed chip is easily recognized as a poor shot. I actually think it's much more likely that people will not recognize poor longer shots. A well struck mid-iron that lands in a greenside bunker because you were too aggressive with your target is a lost half a stroke, give or take. That's worth about the same as missing a 8 foot putt. Everyone always remembers the putts they missed.

Ping G400 LST 9° Diamana white 63x
Ping G410 LST 3 wood Diamana Thump
Taylor Made UDI 2 iron Diamana Tensei white 90TX
Titleist 714CB 3, 4
Titleist 714MB 5-PW
Ping Glide 2.0 Stealth 52 and 56 WS
Scotty Cameron Newport 2

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Fairway14 said:

The point I was trying to make with this thread is that players instantly recognize a poor tee shot or any other seriously mishit full shot.

But because the mishits of short shots are less obvious, especially putts, I think players tend to believe their short game is "decent, o.k.".

I wish there was more discussion threads about why my chip ended up 15 feet from the hole rather than 6 feet Or why I miss putts more than make inside 8 feet   Instead threads are all about the swing.  
I think the point you are making has a bigger impact on scoring for the average golfer

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, harolease said:

I wish there was more discussion threads about why my chip ended up 15 feet from the hole rather than 6 feet Or why I miss putts more than make inside 8 feet   Instead threads are all about the swing.  
I think the point you are making has a bigger impact on scoring for the average golfer

I think the opposite is true...easier to self identify a badly hit short game shot than a full swing shot .

2016 M1 9.5 tuned to 7.5
TM r15 3 wood
Adams Idea Pro 2h/4h
Mizuno JPX 900 HM 5-PW
Vokey SM7 48* F Grind
Vokey SM7 54* F Grind
Vokey SM7 58* M Grind

Link to post
Share on other sites

... When I taught full time I offered a FREE short game lesson with every 5 lesson package. The amount of students that asked for another FREE swing lesson instead of a short game lesson was mind boggling. In the beginning I tried to talk them out of it, but lost a few students and realized word of mouth would not be good if I did not honor a students wishes. This that did take the short game lesson got much more for their money than those just taking another full swing lesson. I would add that the higher the index, the more they wanted a full swing lesson where the lower the index the more they realized the benefit of improving their short game. 

... I had a fitting a few weeks ago and wanted to check my putter loft as putting has always a strength of my game. But my fitter asked if I was a streaky putter and I said "Not at all". So he re-phrased the question and asked if I had days were I make everything and others where I burned the edges? To that I said "absolutely, don't we all?" He said my tempo was insanely consistent as well as the length of my back stroke and follow through BUT because I had always used an 8802 style heel shafted putter before switching to a Newport 2.5 this spring, I had a strong gate stroke. With the ball 2" outside my eye line I was closing my face inconsistently through impact, just enough to burn the edge instead of rolling in. He wanted me to put my eyes directly over the ball and take the putter head as straight back and straight through as possible. I tried to for 3 rounds but it was just too much of a change after 40 years of putting the same way.

... But I would be both ignorant and arrogant if I didn't at least realize my short coming and address it. I ended up splitting the difference and moving my eye line 1" inside the line and taking it back with less of a gate stroke, minimizing the amount of face closer through impact and my 4-8 foot putting has become a little more consistent. So in answer to the original question, I did not recognize my "bad" putting from an inconsistent face angle at impact. The one constant in this game is there is always room for improvement. 

TaylorMade SIM Max ... Diamana Limited 55R
Callaway Super Hybrid 17*  ... Diamana Limited 65R

TaylorMade DHy 19* ... Diamana Limited 65R
4-Wedge Titleist T100-S ... Steelfiber 95R
SM6 52* F Grind /SM8 M Grind 58* ... Steelfiber 95R
Newport 2.5 ... 33.5"
Link to post
Share on other sites

A few things here...

 

1.  I've 5 hole in ones/hole outs from the fairway and all 5 were thin shots that had me cussing right off the face.  

2. I've pure'd so many hooks and blocks that put me reaching into my pocket for another ball.  

 

I disagree that not touching the hole on a 7ft putt is a "bad shot".  My definition of a bad shot is one that costs you an additional stroke.  OB, hazard, lost ball, chip that doesn't get on the green, sand shot that does not get you on the green, missing the green from 100yds or closer and lag putts that are left outside of 3'-5'.  That 7' putt you missed probably has less than a 50% make probability so missing it entirely doesn't mean anything as we don't get half strokes.  

 

I can look at every single round of my 2020 and tell you with a high degree of certainty that a missed 7' putt, missing the green from 139yds or a lousy drive that leaves me with a 200yd approach shot did not kill my round.  Penalties, two chips, not getting out of the bunker in one, three putts and missing the green from 100yds killed my scores.  

 

Yesterday's round:

0 birdies

4 bogies

1 double

1 triple

10 greens

6 fairways

Score: 79

 

Also on that round:

1 three putt

1 lost ball on an approach (two shot penalty)

1 bunker shot I hit clean and ended up in the bunker behind the hole

 

With a clean round I could've shot a 75 in 45* weather from back tees on a course with a slope north of 140 all the while not striking it very well or feeling comfortable over the ball.  

 

From a mental standpoint I would focus on calling "bad shots" ones that cost you a stroke that you can avoid.  Missing the green, missing the fairway and missing putts outside of 3' are going to happen.  You'll gain more from not two chipping, not three putting and avoiding grabbing a ball out of your pocket.

 

Edited by Lefty_3Jack
  • Like 1
In search of solid contact...
Link to post
Share on other sites

@Fairway14 - That may be true except you could be overlooking one untalked about influence.  Some people just have poor judgment regarding certain things, like distance, or what they see as a lousy or bad.  Others don't or won't judge their own ability or lack thereof for fear others will judge them too.   Some people are good as some things but just lousy at other things, so with those people you may be right. 

  • Titleist TS2 9.5, Ventus 5 "S"
  • Titleist TS2 16.5*, Ventus 7 "S"
  • Titleist 718 T-MB 17* 2i, i110cw "S"
  • Titleist 620s - 3i-PW, PX 5.5
  • SM6 F-52/8, PX 5.5
  • SM6 M-58/8, DG-S200
  • SC CA Monterey
  • ProV1 or AVX
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...