Installing shaft adapter without sandpaper?

[Flip bad golfer]

Hey guys for anyone following my journey I just installed my first shaft adapter.  a TM adapter for an R1 shaft.

 

 

here's the negative. I tipped it and cut it perfectly. epoxied it, all went well. installed the grip.

 

 

 

And then I realized that while I scraped the shaft and prepped it really well, I didn't sandpaper the inside of the brand new shaft adapter.

 

 

 

How screwed am I? Should I remove and reinstall? wait for it to fail? am I just overstating the problem?

[Socrates]

You've got a 50/50 chance the head flies off.  I would be tearing it down and redoing it.

[Hack Daddy]

1 hour ago, Socrates said:

You've got a 50/50 chance the head flies off.  I would be tearing it down and redoing it.

 

Going to agree with my guy Soc. 100% rebuild. 

[2bGood]

Well I don't agree that it is likely to fail, there is no reason not to re-do it. It is supper easy to remove a newly epoxied adapter, clean things up and put it on 100% correct.

[Valtiel]

I agree that it should be redone. The last thing you want is the thought of whether or not your epoxy has adequately bonded to an inadequately prepared surface while you're also trying to carry the water on the left. 😉

[Stuart_G]

 

4 hours ago, Socrates said:

You've got a 50/50 chance the head flies off.  I would be tearing it down and redoing it.

 

Sorry have to disagree.   Just based on the number of adapters I've installed without doing anything to the inside, it's like a 1 in 30 chance of failure.      If you expand that to others,  it's really more like 1 in 10,000 that it will fail.    Despite the 'teachings' here in the forum, it's really not a common practice at all.  Do you really believe the factories or tour vans abrade the inside of the adapter?    People who take the effort to abrade the inside of the bore are a vast minority and failure rates are still tiny.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a good practice but it's one that's come about because of a potential problem that really has a very small occurrence rate.  You have a higher chance of screwing up the shaft during the pull than you have of the original glue joint failing. 

 

Just go to the range and hit a bucket of balls and test it out before taking it to the course.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Stuart_G

[Valtiel]

27 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

 

 

Sorry have to disagree.   Just based on the number of adapters I've installed without doing anything to the inside, it's like a 1 in 30 chance of failure.      If you expand that to others,  it's really more like 1 in 10,000 that it will fail.    Despite the 'teachings' here in the forum, it's really not a common practice at all.  Do you really believe the factories or tour vans abrade the inside of the adapter?    People who take the effort to abrade the inside of the bore are a vast minority and failure rates are still tiny.

 

Don't get me wrong, it's a good practice but it's one that's come about because of a potential problem that really has a very small occurrence rate.  You have a higher chance of screwing up the shaft during the pull than you have of the original glue joint failing. 

 

Just go to the range and hit a bucket of balls and test it out before taking it to the course.

 

 

 

 

I'd kinda be surprised if tour vans didn't do it to be honest. Because we talking what, <5 seconds of labor with the right drill attachment to decrease the chance of a failure? I'd never NOT do that, because it all it would take is one high profile failure at the wrong time to ruin a relationship there. 

[trhode]

I’ve been on a tour van many times. They sand the adapters. The big difference on tour vans is if they use 5 min epoxy or 24 hour epoxy with an oven or heating element to accelerate the curing process. 

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, trhode said:

I’ve been on a tour van many times. They sand the adapters. The big difference on tour vans is if they use 5 min epoxy or 24 hour epoxy with an oven or heating element to accelerate the curing process. 

 

Interesting, I've never seen it in any of the youtube vids of the tour van guys building a club or factory build either - but I do understand that's far from any kind of definitive proof.

 

But it really doesn't change anything.   The evidence of failure rates for those that don't is still quite small.   IMO, not worth the risk to the shaft for someone who has very little or no experience pulling graphite shafts back out of the adapter.

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Stuart_G

[Flip bad golfer]

And that last sentence is exactly my worry.

 

Not only do I not have a puller, I have ZERO experience pulling graphite. Have done steel about a handful of times but graphite.

 

 No.

 

 

[braincramp52]

I really wouldn't worry about it. As Stuart said, small chance of failure.

[Valtiel]

20 minutes ago, Flip bad golfer said:

And that last sentence is exactly my worry.

 

Not only do I not have a puller, I have ZERO experience pulling graphite. Have done steel about a handful of times but graphite.

 

 No.

 

 

Ah, well if that is the case then I would leave it as Stuart is right. You can damage a composite shaft with too much heat, and a puller is crucial to using as little heat as possible. Just make sure to give it a thorough test on the range, because a catastrophic glue joint failure is more likely to happen earlier. 

[toc]

Why wouldn’t adapters come abraded from the factory?

[Ger21]

I'd leave it, as it's super easy to damage the shaft when pulling it, and a good puller is mandatory.

The first time I installed an adapter, I didn't sand it, and it was fine.

[Flip bad golfer]

Thanks guys, I was on a rollercoaster through this thread! Then I realized this sub forum is mostly serious builders building for others (or for self with a lot of experience) and then it made more sense. As a customer I wouldn't be okay with this. But since it's for myself I'll take a chance vs almost certainly ruining the shaft and adapter.

 

I am pretty serious about my hobbies and I'm hoping club building will become a new hobby as well so I want to make sure I build good habits and take pride in my work.

 

I appreciate all the insight and I'll update y'all if it comes flying off! (Hopefully not because I have no budget left to replace shaft or head....)

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Flip bad golfer

[Stuart_G]

2 minutes ago, Flip bad golfer said:

Thanks guys, I was ok a rollercoaster through this thread! Then I realized this sub forum is mostly serious builders building for others (or for self with a looooot of experience) and then it made more sense.

 

I am pretty serious about my hobbies and I'm hoping club building will become a new hobby as well so I want to make sure I build good habits and take pride in my work.

 

I appreciate all the insight and I'll update y'all if it comes flying off! (Hopefully not because I have no budget left to replace shaft or head....)

 

 

 

 

 

No guarantees but most people who report issues with the epoxy not bonding well with the adapter notice some rotational 'slippage' of the head or adapter on the shaft before it comes completely loose or flies off.    So just pay attention to the alignment of the shaft graphics with the head to keep an eye out for that.      It also seems to happen relatively soon after the installation.   So if testing on the range and the first few rounds go well without any indication of slippage, you likely won't need to worry too much after that.

[Flip bad golfer]

1 minute ago, Stuart_G said:

 

No guarantees but most people who report issues with the epoxy not bonding well with the adapter notice some rotational 'slippage' of the head or adapter on the shaft before it comes completely loose or flies off.    So just pay attention to the alignment of the shaft graphics with the head to keep an eye out for that.      It also seems to happen relatively soon after the installation.   So if testing on the range and the first few rounds go well without any indication of slippage, you likely won't need to worry too much after that.

I'll make note (maybe even with a sharpie or a small piece of tape) of the orientation thanks

[TwistedSister]

I have installed numerous adapters (ALL TM) NEVER sandpaper the adapter,  NEVER had a failure

[Adam C]

Although I do run the sander through any hosel I do, I don't believe that the issue is related or even remediated by sand paper. The issues stem from oil based residue inside the adapter hosel left over from machining and not properly cleaning before shipping. Depending on where and who made the adapter, this can be an issue. Acetone in my opinion is of far greater value as the final prep step before assembly, especially when dealing with a "new" adapter ie not a reshafted one.

 

But as mentioned above, the failure rate is small and the failure rate where the head actually completely separates from the shaft without some warning sign is even smaller.

[Stuart_G]

8 minutes ago, Adam C said:

Although I do run the sander through any hosel I do, I don't believe that the issue is related or even remediated by sand paper. The issues stem from oil based residue inside the adapter hosel left over from machining and not properly cleaning before shipping. Depending on where and who made the adapter, this can be an issue. Acetone in my opinion is of far greater value as the final prep step before assembly, especially when dealing with a "new" adapter ie not a reshafted one.

 

But as mentioned above, the failure rate is small and the failure rate where the head actually completely separates from the shaft without some warning sign is even smaller.

 

I actually suspect the same.  Contamination from manufacturing is probably a more common cause than surface roughness.

 

Although there have been a few instances of people reporting failures here even after some pretty thorough cleaning with acetone and alcohol.   So I don't think we can rule out surface roughness completely quite yet.   Anodizing the aluminum usually increases surface roughness so a substandard job during the anodizing process could leave a smoother surface.  But that's just another theory.

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Stuart_G