I’m gassing for some Hogan Grind’s

[deejaid]

Lately I’ve really been looking hard at Hogan Grind irons.    The shape just really suits my eye.   The shape and proportions look perfect.

 

Who here has played them or is still playing them and what can you tell me about them, specifically how the compare with Redlines, and the 1982 Medallions, two other clubs I’ve been drooling over lately.

[Stephen8802]

I have the 3,6,7,8,9; if you want to hit them for a while, I'm happy to ship them to Cali. The 3 has a 7.5 in it (yikes) and I pulled the shaft out of the 7 to put in my Apex IIs, but the 6/8/9 have Apex 4s in them. My eventual plan is to pick up an equalizer and make this a half set to pair with my Medallion long irons, but realistically that won't happen anytime soon unless I stumble into a Apex 4 7 iron shaft and a equalizer...I just have too many projects to deal with before I get to these.

 

You are welcome to play around with them for a while if it helps you decide if you want to pick up a set.

[Joe S]

I'm glad you asked this question.  Of the 1992 and earlier Hogan's, these are the ones that I would say are the most well rounded.  I like the Medallions too, but I find myself putting the Grinds in the bag way more often. I love the look of the Redline's, but I just don't score as well as I do with these.  I feel like I'm a little longer and more accurate with them.  That's my perception now.  Ask me again in a year.  May be totally different.  

[disco111]

The 1980 Director to me was/is the best and cleanest head Hogan made...

[deejaid]

1 hour ago, Joe S said:

I'm glad you asked this question.  Of the 1992 and earlier Hogan's, these are the ones that I would say are the most well rounded.  I like the Medallions too, but I find myself putting the Grinds in the bag way more often. I love the look of the Redline's, but I just don't score as well as I do with these.  I feel like I'm a little longer and more accurate with them.  That's my perception now.  Ask me again in a year.  May be totally different.  

 

The Grinds look awfully close in shape to my Palmer Deacons which is why I was attracted to them.   Both look like larger blades in face area but thinner and not as chunky looking, if that makes sense.  Are the Grind and Redline sole grinds similar?  The Medallion sole looks a little bit thinner to me, but perhaps more offset, would you agree?

 

 

 

The Palmer  Deacon

 

 

 

 

[deejaid]

4 hours ago, Stephen8802 said:

I have the 3,6,7,8,9; if you want to hit them for a while, I'm happy to ship them to Cali. The 3 has a 7.5 in it (yikes) and I pulled the shaft out of the 7 to put in my Apex IIs, but the 6/8/9 have Apex 4s in them. My eventual plan is to pick up an equalizer and make this a half set to pair with my Medallion long irons, but realistically that won't happen anytime soon unless I stumble into a Apex 4 7 iron shaft and a equalizer...I just have too many projects to deal with before I get to these.

 

You are welcome to play around with them for a while if it helps you decide if you want to pick up a set.

Thanks for the offer Stephen.  I have a line on a few sets though,  will see what happens with them.

[Joe S]

The Redline and Grinds sole is almost identical.  Nice camber on the leading edge and trailing edge.  The sole on the Medallion is a little wider and there is less camber, but not boxy or square by any stretch.  The Medallion blade also appears to be a little longer.  It definitely has more offset, but not much by modern standards.  The ads at the time billed it as an "offset" iron as it's main selling feature. All three have very thin top lines, the Medallion might be the thinnest.  I couldn't get good pictures to show that.  The grind is in the middle of both pictures.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Joe S

[Foozle]

As a youngster, owning a set of Hogan's, any set, was my dream. Poster on my bedroom wall etc. I was nearly '50 when I realised that dream.

For all the reasons set out by Deejaid, my chosen set were Grinds which i got 1,3-SW with S300's.

Never have i stepped onto the course with such a sense of anticipation. And never have i been so disappointed! The buttery feel i was expecting was not there, they felt hard and the ball felt dead of the face....

The issue I think are the S300's. I now have many Hogen sets in my collection and those fitted with Apex 4 are consistently my favourites; PC (yes, I know!), Redline and Apex II (Black Cameo). Although for pure nostalgia and sense of history nothing beats my Precisions!

I would not have expected a big difference between S300 and Apex 4 but playing Apex4 I get a real sense of the shaft loading and releasing that I just don't get with the S300 Grinds?

I am sure Grinds are great irons with the right shafts.

[EmperorPenguin]

I once owned the '92 BH Grinds.  I did not like them because of the way they set up at address.  Looking down, the hosel looks like a barrel; I remember the hosel looks wider than usual, and the leading edge is significantly offset. You can particularly see this looking down on a long iron.  I wrote about this in a thread a few years back and someone answered that it is called an "underslung hosel."  Can someone take a picture of how it looks when you look down at address?  They just don't look good, and I sold them after a few weeks of buying them because I could not stop feeling nauseous looking down on them.  I was wondering what the heck Ben was thinking when he designed that club, or if he approved of its design.  This was the man who had a whole line of clubs junked because he did not like them (read The Hogan Mystique).

 

The good news, however, is that Hogan did make an Apex BH Grind pro model with a standard hosel and no offset.  (There are virtually no stampings on the pro model to distinguish that from the off-the-rack model.) If someone posts a close-up picture of the dreaded setup due to its underslung hosel, I will post pictures of the pro model with standard hosel and no offset.

[deejaid]

6 hours ago, Foozle said:

As a youngster, owning a set of Hogan's, any set, was my dream. Poster on my bedroom wall etc. I was nearly '50 when I realised that dream.

For all the reasons set out by Deejaid, my chosen set were Grinds which i got 1,3-SW with S300's.

Never have i stepped onto the course with such a sense of anticipation. And never have i been so disappointed! The buttery feel i was expecting was not there, they felt hard and the ball felt dead of the face....

The issue I think are the S300's. I now have many Hogen sets in my collection and those fitted with Apex 4 are consistently my favourites; PC (yes, I know!), Redline and Apex II (Black Cameo). Although for pure nostalgia and sense of history nothing beats my Precisions!

I would not have expected a big difference between S300 and Apex 4 but playing Apex4 I get a real sense of the shaft loading and releasing that I just don't get with the S300 Grinds?

I am sure Grinds are great irons with the right shafts.

You are bringing me down Foozle! 🙁

 

😁

 

I love the Apex 4 shaft.   The Palmer Deacons I’ve been playing I’ve reshafted with a set of Apex 4 shafts and they play and feel superb.   It’s a shaft I keep coming back to and always love it, need to just stick with that shaft really.......

 

 

[deejaid]

5 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

I once owned the '92 BH Grinds.  I did not like them because of the way they set up at address.  Looking down, the hosel looks like a barrel; I remember the hosel looks wider than usual, and the leading edge is significantly offset. You can particularly see this looking down on a long iron.  I wrote about this in a thread a few years back and someone answered that it is called an "underslung hosel."  Can someone take a picture of how it looks when you look down at address?  They just don't look good, and I sold them after a few weeks of buying them because I could not stop feeling nauseous looking down on them.  I was wondering what the heck Ben was thinking when he designed that club, or if he approved of its design.  This was the man who had a whole line of clubs junked because he did not like them (read The Hogan Mystique).

 

The good news, however, is that Hogan did make an Apex BH Grind pro model with a standard hosel and no offset.  (There are virtually no stampings on the pro model to distinguish that from the off-the-rack model.) If someone posts a close-up picture of the dreaded setup due to its underslung hosel, I will post pictures of the pro model with standard hosel and no offset.

 Now I know you have a great dislike of offset and I get it, but after going to the extreme of my Arias irons with a slight bit of onset, I’ve come to the conclusion I like a little bit of offset like my Palmer Deacons have.
 

 I was just fitted for and bought a set of Titleist 620 CB’s which are an absolutely beautiful club that are longggggg, longer than any other iron set I’ve ever owned, but they aren’t as consistent as my Palmers and don’t put the smile on my face like those Deacons do.

[deejaid]

17 hours ago, Joe S said:

The Redline and Grinds sole is almost identical.  Nice camber on the leading edge and trailing edge.  The sole on the Medallion is a little wider and there is less camber, but not boxy or square by any stretch.  The Medallion blade also appears to be a little longer.  It definitely has more offset, but not much by modern standards.  The ads at the time billed it as an "offset" iron as it's main selling feature. All three have very thin top lines, the Medallion might be the thinnest.  I couldn't get good pictures to show that.  The grind is in the middle of both pictures.

 

 

Great comparisons Joe.  I appreciate it.  But the only way to find out is to just buy both the Grinds and the Medallions.

 

So I have a set of both on the way! 😁

[Joe S]

1 hour ago, deejaid said:

Great comparisons Joe.  I appreciate it.  But the only way to find out is to just buy both the Grinds and the Medallions.

 

So I have a set of both on the way! 😁

You did the right thing.   The only true option.  

[Stephen8802]

I love my Medallion long irons but hook the short irons a bit more than I want. So, I use my Hogan's as split sets with the Medallion 3-5 and Apex II 6-E. When I get my Grinds playable, I'll do the same thing.

 

Nice heads on all three models and I love the Apex 4 shafts. You should enjoy both sets, separately or together.

[Joe S]

7 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

I once owned the '92 BH Grinds.  I did not like them because of the way they set up at address.  Looking down, the hosel looks like a barrel; I remember the hosel looks wider than usual, and the leading edge is significantly offset. You can particularly see this looking down on a long iron.  I wrote about this in a thread a few years back and someone answered that it is called an "underslung hosel."  Can someone take a picture of how it looks when you look down at address?  They just don't look good, and I sold them after a few weeks of buying them because I could not stop feeling nauseous looking down on them.  I was wondering what the heck Ben was thinking when he designed that club, or if he approved of its design.  This was the man who had a whole line of clubs junked because he did not like them (read The Hogan Mystique).

 

The good news, however, is that Hogan did make an Apex BH Grind pro model with a standard hosel and no offset.  (There are virtually no stampings on the pro model to distinguish that from the off-the-rack model.) If someone posts a close-up picture of the dreaded setup due to its underslung hosel, I will post pictures of the pro model with standard hosel and no offset.

So I've spent the last half hour trying to get good address pictures of a few different irons.  Here are some of the better ones I could come up with.   I think I see what you're saying about the Grind, I've never noticed it while playing.  Part of the issue is the transitions from where the hosel meets the face.  The transition happens more quickly making the hosel look thicker closer to the face.   The Grind hosel is barely underslung, if at all.  You can see a distinct bend in the hosel in earlier models that is pretty much non existent here.  So I don't think that is the issue.   Here are pictures of the Redline, Grind and Apex Plus.  The Redline definitely looks less offset.  I chose the Apex Plus because it's an iron that I've noticed seems to have a little too much offset. The Grind looks great at address to me.  Personal preference I suppose.

[deejaid]

6 hours ago, Joe S said:

So I've spent the last half hour trying to get good address pictures of a few different irons.  Here are some of the better ones I could come up with.   I think I see what you're saying about the Grind, I've never noticed it while playing.  Part of the issue is the transitions from where the hosel meets the face.  The transition happens more quickly making the hosel look thicker closer to the face.   The Grind hosel is barely underslung, if at all.  You can see a distinct bend in the hosel in earlier models that is pretty much non existent here.  So I don't think that is the issue.   Here are pictures of the Redline, Grind and Apex Plus.  The Redline definitely looks less offset.  I chose the Apex Plus because it's an iron that I've noticed seems to have a little too much offset. The Grind looks great at address to me.  Personal preference I suppose.

Great pics Joe, thanks.   So would you say the Medallions are somewhere between the Grinds and the Apex Plus?

 

Here are more pics of my Palmers.   The only thing I don’t really like is the radiused leading edge.  Much too rounded and my misses are fat with them because of it.   
 

To me the Grinds like quite similar to the Palmers at address except with a straight leading edge, which is what I’m looking for.

 

 

[Joe S]

13 hours ago, deejaid said:

Great pics Joe, thanks.   So would you say the Medallions are somewhere between the Grinds and the Apex Plus?

 

Here are more pics of my Palmers.   The only thing I don’t really like is the radiused leading edge.  Much too rounded and my misses are fat with them because of it.   
 

To me the Grinds like quite similar to the Palmers at address except with a straight leading edge, which is what I’m looking for.

 

 

You are right.  The Grind and Redline have very straight leading edges.   The Medallion has a little radius to it.  I took pictures of the Equalizers because you can see it best in them.  Some of the short irons in Hogan sets had a tendency to have a very round topline which I don't love.  The Redline is a good example.  When I play them I use a different 50 degree wedge because I don't like the look.  The Grind has a much better top line in my opinion and the Medallion is the best of the three.  

[Joe S]

20 hours ago, Joe S said:

So I've spent the last half hour trying to get good address pictures of a few different irons.  Here are some of the better ones I could come up with.   I think I see what you're saying about the Grind, I've never noticed it while playing.  Part of the issue is the transitions from where the hosel meets the face.  The transition happens more quickly making the hosel look thicker closer to the face.   The Grind hosel is barely underslung, if at all.  You can see a distinct bend in the hosel in earlier models that is pretty much non existent here.  So I don't think that is the issue.   Here are pictures of the Redline, Grind and Apex Plus.  The Redline definitely looks less offset.  I chose the Apex Plus because it's an iron that I've noticed seems to have a little too much offset. The Grind looks great at address to me.  Personal preference I suppose.

Here's a Medallion at Address.  I would say it's about the same as the Grind.  The shaft is at a slightly different angle so you don't get a perfect comparison.  It's harder to take address pictures than you would think.

[EmperorPenguin]

Thanks, Joe, for putting up those pictures.  They reinforced why I sold my Grinds in the first place.  That underslung hosel was just too much for me, and the hosel looked like a barrel at address.  The best way I can put it: the hosel drew attention away from the leading edge because it is so wide compared to the traditional hosel.

 

Offset was a deal breaker for me when I owned the Apex Plus for about a week.  The offset on the 2 iron was behind the center of the shaft, so I felt nauseous feeling looking down at it.  Apex Plus uses a progressive offset, with the long irons almost as bad as Ping's offsets.

 

As promised, I will post pictures or the pro model Apex Grind.  I am assuming that this came from Hogan's custom shop because I don't think I can buy these anywhere.  It is just the 1 iron, and you can clearly see the traditional hosel and leading edge set to where a pro would like to see it.  When juxtaposed to the underslung hosels of the off-the-rack Grinds, the difference is night and day.  I wish they mass-produced this model.

[EmperorPenguin]

I forgot to add that although I never owned the set, I am guessing the '73 Apex model has the traditional hosel?  A friend had the '73 Apex pitching wedge and let me check it out.  At address it looked very clean and the first thing I noticed was the lack of underslung hosel.  I am wondering if that stayed throughout the rest of the set?  I know it is a little off-topic, but I am curious if anyone knows.

[Foozle]

On 10/24/2020 at 4:41 PM, deejaid said:

You are bringing me down Foozle! 🙁

 

😁

 

I love the Apex 4 shaft.   The Palmer Deacons I’ve been playing I’ve reshafted with a set of Apex 4 shafts and they play and feel superb.   It’s a shaft I keep coming back to and always love it, need to just stick with that shaft really.......

 

 

Didn't mean to bring you down Deejaid.😟 Glad you are undaunted and hope you enjoy the Grinds and Medallions when you get them. 🙂 

 

 

[deejaid]

46 minutes ago, Foozle said:

Didn't mean to bring you down Deejaid.😟 Glad you are undaunted and hope you enjoy the Grinds and Medallions when you get them. 🙂 

 

 

Haha, no worries.   These are two sets I’ve wanted for a long time, if they don’t work for me I can always pass them on to another Hogan fan.   It’s always fun to try a new club though.

[Joe S]

10 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Thanks, Joe, for putting up those pictures.  They reinforced why I sold my Grinds in the first place.  That underslung hosel was just too much for me, and the hosel looked like a barrel at address.  The best way I can put it: the hosel drew attention away from the leading edge because it is so wide compared to the traditional hosel.

 

Offset was a deal breaker for me when I owned the Apex Plus for about a week.  The offset on the 2 iron was behind the center of the shaft, so I felt nauseous feeling looking down at it.  Apex Plus uses a progressive offset, with the long irons almost as bad as Ping's offsets.

 

As promised, I will post pictures or the pro model Apex Grind.  I am assuming that this came from Hogan's custom shop because I don't think I can buy these anywhere.  It is just the 1 iron, and you can clearly see the traditional hosel and leading edge set to where a pro would like to see it.  When juxtaposed to the underslung hosels of the off-the-rack Grinds, the difference is night and day.  I wish they mass-produced this model.

You're right about the 73 apex,  Here's a picture at address (3 iron).No offset to speak of. 

 

I still don't think the under-slung hosel what is causing the look at address you don't like.  It's either the offset or the transition from the face.  The under-slung hosel refers to the subtle angle change in the heal side of the hosel where it meats the head.  You can only see it when you're looking at the club from the back.  It's barely noticeable on any of the irons that have it and as far as I can tell it doesn't make a difference at address.  The Bounce Sole has it, but at address it looks pretty much the same as the 73.  

 

[EmperorPenguin]

Wow, that '73 Apex sets up like a champ.  Looks like I'll shop around for a 1-SW set, despite their average sale price of $200.  I did not like the bell-pattern grooves until looking at the pictures you posted.

 

A pro reported that the '73 Apex wins distance and accuracy tests compared to other clubs, even modern clubs.

 

 

I wonder how the Grinds would have compared?

[Foozle]

1 hour ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Wow, that '73 Apex sets up like a champ.  Looks like I'll shop around for a 1-SW set, despite their average sale price of $200.  I did not like the bell-pattern grooves until looking at the pictures you posted.

 

A pro reported that the '73 Apex wins distance and accuracy tests compared to other clubs, even modern clubs.

 

 

I wonder how the Grinds would have compared?

The '73's are nice.

I have a set of '72's I can do nothing with! The weight is set too high on the face. I am guessing that is why it was a one year only model?

'73's corrected that and may be why they were so successful?

[Joe S]

6 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

Wow, that '73 Apex sets up like a champ.  Looks like I'll shop around for a 1-SW set, despite their average sale price of $200.  I did not like the bell-pattern grooves until looking at the pictures you posted.

 

A pro reported that the '73 Apex wins distance and accuracy tests compared to other clubs, even modern clubs.

 

 

I wonder how the Grinds would have compared?

 

He's done a real public service with this video.  The 73 Apex does really well here.  Maltby also ranks it very high in MPF for a blade, if you buy in to that sort of thing.  The Medallion also got good results.  There is definitely some user variability going on here though.   He hit what appears to be a wild shank with the IPT and he left it in his dispersion.   He also has two versions of the Bounce Sole, same club, different stamps, that get different results.  

 

As for the Grind, don't know why he skipped it, but I'm sure it would have blown the others away.

[northplatteriver]

I have hit many Hogan models from the 70's, 80's and 90's but the best Apex class iron, or at least the one I hit the best were the 1992 Ft. Worth Redlines.  I have had a couple sets of Grinds.  Wanted to love them, but just did not hit them well.  If I had not dipped down into the 1950's and found the Precisions or my current gamer Sabers, I would still be playing the 92 Redlines.  Just a great club, especially with the Apex 4 steel shafts.

[EmperorPenguin]

I just picked up a set of the 1973 Apex blades with Apex 4 shafts and after trimming them to standard and cleaning them up, I report here that they are the best-looking Hogans I've ever owned.  They set up so cleanly I would have to rate them as good as my custom Wilson Staffs, Titleist Tour Models and Golden Ram Vibration Matched Tour Grinds.  Most importantly, they do not have that horrid hosel design the BH Grinds have.  The 1973 Hogan Apex irons are undoubtedly timeless.

Edited October 31, 2020 by EmperorPenguin

[Joe S]

16 hours ago, northplatteriver said:

I have hit many Hogan models from the 70's, 80's and 90's but the best Apex class iron, or at least the one I hit the best were the 1992 Ft. Worth Redlines.  I have had a couple sets of Grinds.  Wanted to love them, but just did not hit them well.  If I had not dipped down into the 1950's and found the Precisions or my current gamer Sabers, I would still be playing the 92 Redlines.  Just a great club, especially with the Apex 4 steel shafts.

This is one of the few sets that I don't have.  I have an 8 and an E.  They appear to be a lot like the Apex II's, but with a more rolled sole grind.  They are definitely on my list. I once saw a partial set including a 3 to 7 and a 9 iron and somehow didn't pull the trigger.  Still kicking myself. 

 

I love the Sabers, as you can tell from my profile pic, with the exception of the Equalizer.  The crazy amount of toe weighting gets in my head.  

 

14 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

I just picked up a set of the 1973 Apex blades with Apex 4 shafts and after trimming them to standard and cleaning them up, I report here that they are the best-looking Hogans I've ever owned.  They set up so cleanly I would have to rate them as good as my custom Wilson Staffs, Titleist Tour Models and Golden Ram Vibration Matched Tour Grinds.  Most importantly, they do not have that horrid hosel design the BH Grinds have.  The 1973 Hogan Apex irons are undoubtedly timeless.

 

I have four sets of 73's, two frosted back and two shiny chrome.  Unfortunately none of them have a great shaft for me.  An Apex 2, Apex 3 and two Legend 4's.  I pulled he Apex 2's and sold them, will eventually re-shaft with something I like better.  Then I can give them a good test.  

[deejaid]

On 10/23/2020 at 3:25 PM, Joe S said:

The Redline and Grinds sole is almost identical.  Nice camber on the leading edge and trailing edge.  The sole on the Medallion is a little wider and there is less camber, but not boxy or square by any stretch.  The Medallion blade also appears to be a little longer.  It definitely has more offset, but not much by modern standards.  The ads at the time billed it as an "offset" iron as it's main selling feature. All three have very thin top lines, the Medallion might be the thinnest.  I couldn't get good pictures to show that.  The grind is in the middle of both pictures.

 

 

 

Well I’ve gotten a few range sessions with both the Grinds and the Medallions and for me the winner is the Medallions hands down.

 

 

Joe, your description on the soles was spot on.  The Medallion sole is much flatter which I really like.    I think it’s why I have so much trouble with modern clubs.   The irons that I absolutely pure the most often are my Pedersen Exel Stainless and my Ping Karsten 1’s.  Both sets have nearly completely flat soles.  I took the Grinds out first and struggled mightily.  I then took out the Medallions and I was just throwing darts.

 

Medallions are in the bag.