Tennessee Golf Trail

[golfgoob]

https://tnstateparks.com/golf

While on a trip to Shiloh Battlefield, my son and I stayed at Natchez Trace and Henry Horton state parks and drove by Pickwick. Seeing the course at HH, I remembered about the golf trail. I would like to hear people's experiences playing any of the 9 courses. I've play Bear Trace at Harrison and Cumberland and liked both. May make a trip to Pickwick and play there and visit Shiloh Battlefield again.

[smashdn]

My experience is they are mostly way off the beaten track.  I am less than a mile from the TN state line and less than 40 minutes from Nashville and the closest course is almost two hours away.

 

That being said, there are several on my list to play and I have been to a handful of the parks that have the courses, just haven't been in golfing company when I was there.

[me05501]

I live in Chattanooga so the Bear Trace at Harrison Bay is local to me. It's a good public course. Wide fairways, a good variety of holes and tee options and pretty scenic to boot. Play tends to be slowish there. 

 

The Bear Trace at Cumberland Mountain is about an hour from me but I rarely play there. It's very difficult in a lot of ways and frustrating for a lot of players. Slow play there can be brutal. Recent reports on the conditioning have been negative. 

 

I'm also about an hour away from Fall Creek Falls and I think the course there is also on the trail. It's okay...nice layout, not too crowded. Conditions are fair to poor a lot of the time but it's always pretty there and usually relaxing. 

 

The Bear Trace at Tim's Ford is quite a ways off I-24 but it is usually worth the drive. Conditions are great, the layout is varied and challenging, and it's rarely as crowded as the other two Bear Trace courses. 

[Abh159]

I played the course at Fall Creek Falls this past autumn and was pleasantly surprised. For a Saturday morning with great weather there was almost no one on the course. It was also it really good shape. The greens weren't lightning fast but they rolled well and the fairways and rough were close to perfect. 

 

I'd like to play some of the others as well but the downside to the TN Golf Trail is that they are all so spread out. It's not something you could really plan a golf trip around as most of them are located in the middle of nowhere in state parks. It's more of a "I'll be in the area so I might as well play a round" sort of thing. 

[nuthin but a hacker]

Henry Horton has wide open fairways. It plays a lot better now that they have changed over to Bermuda greens. Most of the greens are large so you could have some long putts. It’s usually in really good condition. It’s usually really busy on the weekends so unless you start early, you might have a tough time getting 18 in. It can be crazy slow out there. 
 

Bear Trace at Tim’s Ford is always in awesome condition. I haven’t played it much this year because of the plandemic and the crazy rules they started out with this year. They closed way too early. And it seems they are usually covered up now with no tee times. At least it was that way earlier in the year so we just stopped going. A couple years back we could be out there on a Friday afternoon and have the place to ourselves. 
 

Fall Creek Falls is hit or miss on the conditions. And it is a long ways from anything. When we go play there we always try to make a day out of it, pack a cooler and find a spot in the park to eat. The course layout is nice and the people that work there are always friendly. 

[nitram]

I've played all 9 and think they're all worthy of your travel time. After all, Tennessee is 500 miles wide and let's face it, you can't beat the price. While not overly long (only Henry Horton and Harrison Bay are over 7K), they are all uniquely challenging and require you to use imagination and make shots. Montgomery Bell is my favorite while Paris Landing would rank last. I've played them all at least three times and have NEVER had a bad experience nor had to wait for a tee time. None will ever be confused for Bethpage or Torrey but they are all good courses for a great value.

[Abh159]

1 hour ago, nitram said:

I've played all 9 and think they're all worthy of your travel time. After all, Tennessee is 500 miles wide and let's face it, you can't beat the price. While not overly long (only Henry Horton and Harrison Bay are over 7K), they are all uniquely challenging and require you to use imagination and make shots. Montgomery Bell is my favorite while Paris Landing would rank last. I've played them all at least three times and have NEVER had a bad experience nor had to wait for a tee time. None will ever be confused for Bethpage or Torrey but they are all good courses for a great value.

Out of curiosity why would you put MB at the top and Paris Landing at the bottom? I haven’t played either just looking for general info or tips on the courses. I’ve only played one (Fall Creek Falls), but I’m sure I’ll play several more in the upcoming year. 

[nitram]

Bell is a good, old style course that forces you to make shots. The vibe there is great and the course/greens has/have always been in superior shape the dozen or so times I've been there. It's not the flashiest nor the most challenging of the lot. It just suits me, I guess.

 

Paris Landing is not a bad course, at all. I've played there three times, roughly 4-5 years apart and I'll play it again. The weather never really cooperated. It was either rainy and cold or 100* with 90% humidity. On one of the trips they were having an issue with the greens. Nothing really bad to say about the course and the views of the lake are really nice. Just not my favorite.

 

 

[Drainey15]

This may be too late for you but my mom works up there  at pickwick and i think it’s always in good shape for a state park course. There are several other courses within 30-40 minutes of there too. 

[me05501]

On 12/27/2020 at 8:43 AM, nuthin but a hacker said:

Fall Creek Falls is hit or miss on the conditions. And it is a long ways from anything. When we go play there we always try to make a day out of it, pack a cooler and find a spot in the park to eat. The course layout is nice and the people that work there are always friendly. 

 

It sounds crazy, but one of the best cheeseburgers I've ever had came from the tiny pro shop grill at Fall Creek Falls. 

[platgof]

Montgomery Bell and Grey Stone are very close to each other, so it would be best to play them together for a golf trip. Grey Stone is the better course as I am not a big fan of the tee boxes at M. Bell.

Edited January 31, 2021 by platgof

[6holesn1]

Played and stayed at Montgomery Bell, Pickwick, Chickasaw, and Paris Landing over the last 20 years w/ a group ranging from 16-32 players making the trip down from Wisconsin. Great experiences all at sites.  Very accommodating.  Consensus over the years is that the Montgomery Bell/Greystone combination is the best  golf and accommodations.  We’ve moved our trip farther south last couple years into Northern Mississippi. 

[nuthin but a hacker]

On 1/27/2021 at 10:10 AM, me05501 said:

 

It sounds crazy, but one of the best cheeseburgers I've ever had came from the tiny pro shop grill at Fall Creek Falls. 

The food is certainly good. And the pro is one of the nicest guys you will meet. 

[smashdn]

Wife and I stayed at MB lodge for her birthday.  I had forgotten about the golf course and only got to see it from the gate and car as it was sleeting when we were there and course was closed.

 

The lodge is very very nice after a recent remodel.  I could see making that a home base while playing MB state park course and Greystone.  Hotel bar is well stocked.

[me05501]

I played the Bear Trace at Cumberland Mountain on Sunday for the first time in 20 years or so. 

 

I've played at least 50 rounds at the Bear Trace at Harrison Bay because it's local to me. I've also played the Tim's Ford course maybe a half-dozen times. I like them both quite a bit, with a slight edge to Tim's Ford. I recall not enjoying Cumberland Mountain as much as those two but I couldn't really put my finger on why. I remember it as being more challenging than the others and for being pretty slow to get around, but that was about it. 

 

So here are my updated impressions...

 

The layout at Cumberland Mountain offers a lot of variety, with elevation changes as a consistent feature. Very few holes are played along level terrain and most of those are par threes. Almost every hole plays uphill or downhill off the tee. 

 

Forced carries are another notable feature that is different at this course compared to the others. There are 4-5 holes that have hazards to traverse on the approach. The greens are protected with myriad bunkers, often centered in front of or just behind the green, adding risk to the "just aim for the middle" strategy.

 

Finally there's the rough. Thick, 3-5" fescue rough surrounds most of the fairways and greens. It's not any fun to play from, and it's very hard to find a ball in. I mostly kept my drives in the fairways but we spent a lot of time searching for balls for our group. You really need all the players in your group to help spot each others' drives so you don't waste too much time searching in the wrong spot. 

 

Course conditions are really good right now. The greens have already been punched and healed up and run fast and true. It was VERY windy while we played, which was sort of fun to deal with as we navigated the hills and hollows and faced different wind conditions. 

 

Some of the pins we faced were pretty difficult. There were 6-7 junior college teams playing pre-tournament rounds behind our group and we saw paint on the greens indicating the pins that would be in play for a two-day tournament starting Monday. Maybe the hole locations we had to play were meant to keep traffic away from the parts of the green they were using for the tournament. 

 

To summarize, I think the Cumberland Mountain course has earned it reputation as a tougher challenge than the other Bear Trace courses. It is not unfair, but it can be frustrating if you're fighting your swing. I was hitting the ball pretty well and putting okay too but felt pretty happy to stagger off with an 89. 

 

For a group event there I might lean toward a match play format over stroke play. There are holes where a poor player is going to have a lost ball on his first swing and find a hazard on his second...it's just going to happen. Better to let those players concede the odd blowup hole and move on. 

[platgof]

Jack Nicklaus caught a bunch of grief from players about the toughness of his courses. His response was he didn't have any problems!! Some pros don't really belong in designing golf courses, that are suppose to be recreational outlets. If the average score is in the nineties from decent players, then the designer needs to find another occupation. Tennessee should have hired RTJ instead of Nicklaus as the courses have only done so so compared to RTJ's courses. 

Edited January 17, 2022 by platgof

[Abh159]

1 hour ago, platgof said:

Jack Nicklaus caught a bunch of grief from players about the toughness of his courses. His response was he didn't have any problems!! Some pros don't really belong in designing golf courses, that are suppose to be recreational outlets. If the average score is in the nineties from decent players, then the designer needs to find another occupation. Tennessee should have hired RTJ instead of Nicklaus as the courses have only done so so compared to RTJ's courses. 

 

Curious where you're getting the bolded info from and what you would consider to be a "decent player"?

 

Although it doesn't hurt, I don't think design or the designer is the primary reason for the success and lack of between RTJ and the TN Golf Trail. I've never found any Nicklaus course overly difficult and I've probably played a dozen of them. If anything I think they're easier than a lot of the RTJ courses. They're typically shorter and call for a left to right shot more often than not which is what most amateurs play.

 

I mean if you just look at the sheer numbers... Nicklaus only designed 4 courses I believe for the Bear Trace project (which is now part of the 9, 18 hole courses on the TN Golf Trail) and only 3 of those are still around. The RTJ Trail has 11 sites and 26 total 18 hole courses. Literally 3x the amount of courses the TN trail has.

 

You also have to realize the TN Golf Trail is run by the state of TN so the individual course's budgets aren't even in the same ballpark as the ones on the RTJ Trail. 

[me05501]

The Bear Trace courses are generally easier than the RTJ Trail courses IMO. 

[platgof]

There was a segment on tv locally and the players were upset about how tough his courses were, then they interviewed Jack, and he said he didn't see the problem. I am talking about decent players shooting mid 80's, and then mid nineties at the Bear Trace. the players being interviewed were very irate. 

[Abh159]

15 hours ago, platgof said:

There was a segment on tv locally and the players were upset about how tough his courses were, then they interviewed Jack, and he said he didn't see the problem. I am talking about decent players shooting mid 80's, and then mid nineties at the Bear Trace. the players being interviewed were very irate. 

 

Few things here...

 

First, I wouldn't take a local news segment from rural TN (where all the Bear Trace courses are located) as the end all be all regarding golf course architecture.

 

Second, someone who regularly shoots in the "mid-80s" isn't a decent player. If you're a double digit handicap (which these people are) then having rounds 7-10 shots higher happens especially if you're playing an unfamiliar course.

[me05501]

Local TV news stories are mostly entertainment and that goes 200% for a story based on "man on the street" interviews. 

The Bear Trace courses have wide fairways and generous greens and every shot is basically right in front of you. They are easier than the RTJ courses and it's not even close regardless of what a random player on TV said once. 

[smashdn]

On 1/17/2022 at 10:25 AM, platgof said:

Tennessee should have hired RTJ instead of Nicklaus as the courses have only done so so compared to RTJ's courses. 

 

I'll go geography.  Alabama is a north and south oriented state (news flash I know).  Couple benefits from that I suppose.  Alabama is most of the whole trek for a good deal of people heading down to the gulf coast.  Those courses make a nice stop to stretch your legs on the way down. 

 

Next thing is you can sort of pick how far south you want to go to find decent weather in winter.  From southern KY I can choose to go all the way to the coast, Montgomery, to B-ham, to Huntsville of Muscle Shoals and hit some RTJ courses.  Conversely TN, being an east-west oriented state, you don't get a ton of variation in temp to suite your fancy, though there is a considerable difference in Memphis and Johnson City most seasons.  But still not to the extent you can see in Alabama.  

 

And then the major difference.  RTJ courses are not all that far off the beaten path or interstate for the most part.  The Bear Trace courses are off the cut, by design, but that has (if the goal was to make money in general) not proven a good idea.  IIRC the idea was to bring cash into the areas where these rural state parks are.  And it probably has to an extent.  But at the cost of revenue as a whole I bet.

 

I live one mile from the Ky-Tn state line and spend most of my waking time in TN.  Closest Bear Trace course is at Cumberland Mtn.  2 hours and 24 minutes.  They aren't convenient to access.  Really only Chattanooga is decently close to most of them.

 

How many have closed?  TN state parks website is only showing three now.  I thought there were more? 

Edited January 19, 2022 by smashdn

[me05501]

28 minutes ago, smashdn said:

 

I'll go geography.  Alabama is a north and south oriented state (news flash I know).  Couple benefits from that I suppose.  Alabama is most of the whole trek for a good deal of people heading down to the gulf coast.  Those courses make a nice stop to stretch your legs on the way down. 

 

Next thing is you can sort of pick how far south you want to go to find decent weather in winter.  From southern KY I can choose to go all the way to the coast, Montgomery, to B-ham, to Huntsville of Muscle Shoals and hit some RTJ courses.  Conversely TN, being an east-west oriented state, you don't get a ton of variation in temp to suite your fancy, though there is a considerable difference in Memphis and Johnson City most seasons.  But still not to the extent you can see in Alabama.  

 

And then the major difference.  RTJ courses are not all that far off the beaten path or interstate for the most part.  The Bear Trace courses are off the cut, by design, but that has (if the goal was to make money in general) not proven a good idea.  IIRC the idea was to bring cash into the areas where these rural state parks are.  And it probably has to an extent.  But at the cost of revenue as a whole I bet.

 

I live one mile from the Ky-Tn state line and spend most of my waking time in TN.  Closest Bear Trace course is at Cumberland Mtn.  2 hours and 24 minutes.  They aren't convenient to access.  Really on Chattanooga is decently close to most of them.

 

How many have closed?  TN state parks website is only showing three now.  I thought there were more? 

 

The weather is a factor too, for sure. I'd rather play at Grand National in March than Cumberland Mountain. 

[Abh159]

15 hours ago, smashdn said:

How many have closed?  TN state parks website is only showing three now.  I thought there were more? 

 

I thought there were 4, but a quick google search helped me discover they actually built 5 originally. 2 of them failed and shut down (Ross Creek and Chickasaw), but both have since reopened under new owners they just aren't part of the "Bear Trace" anymore. 

 

Like you mentioned, it just goes to show how important geography/location can be for a successful golf course. RTJ was smart and built almost all of their sites within a very short drive of populated cities, and you can get from one site to another in less than an hour for the most part. Bear Trace took the opposite approach. They built most of them (with the exception of the one in Chattanooga) in the middle of nowhere with the two closest being 90+ minutes away from each other.

[me05501]

1 hour ago, Abh159 said:

 

I thought there were 4, but a quick google search helped me discover they actually built 5 originally. 2 of them failed and shut down (Ross Creek and Chickasaw), but both have since reopened under new owners they just aren't part of the "Bear Trace" anymore. 

 

Like you mentioned, it just goes to show how important geography/location can be for a successful golf course. RTJ was smart and built almost all of their sites within a very short drive of populated cities, and you can get from one site to another in less than an hour for the most part. Bear Trace took the opposite approach. They built most of them (with the exception of the one in Chattanooga) in the middle of nowhere with the two closest being 90+ minutes away from each other.

 

 

I think Cumberland Mountain's site makes some sense in its proximity to I-40 and especially Fairfield Glade. Tons of people travel there just to play golf and Cumberland Mountain features in a lot of the packages sold to those package groups. 

 

It's also fairly centrally located for amateur, small college and high school events and hosts quite a few of those. 

 

The one that is really hard to access is Tim's Ford. It's a geographical anomaly...twenty miles from everywhere!