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Anyone using a 54 degree wedge for all short game duty?


RoyalMustang

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On 10/24/2020 at 9:14 PM, RoyalMustang said:

 

Great question: in my 18-hole short course round today, maybe 3-4 times. I duffed one though; it could have been me. I took some flop shots beforehand on the range and it was really inconsistent with that club. I picked a couple clean and full-swinged them 40 yards.  Another couple I got under and sent them 15 yards.  That is a super high risk shot for me, although I do the half-swing, pick the club up swing quite often out of thicker rough (basically a bunker swing).  I probably open the face 10 degrees every 3 holes or so; anytime I have a tight pin placement.  

 

It sounds like the 54 could be the go-to for most of the time ....

Played with a guy last week that used a 54 exclusively. Under 100, sand, chip. Everything. I outdrove him by 40 yards and he still whipped my @#$. I'm not too bad around greens but he was locked in on everything including getting out of traps. His Vokey looked like it went through WWI trench warfare.

 

 

Truthfully, reading this and your other posts, its probably not the couple degree difference in loft/club  thats going to significantly impact your short game right now. Whatever you decide on, practice with it incessantly. The short game is the Am's best shot at closing the gap with the pro's. 

 

 

Edited by pktaske
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Interested in this thread. I currently play a 50/56/60 set up, but was contemplating moving to 54. Would there be a huge difference if i bent my 56 degree (12 bounce) to 55?

Driver: Ping G430LST - Diamana GT 60tx

3 Wood:  TM Stealth 3W - Diamana GT 70tx

5 Wood: Ping G430 Max 5W - Tensei Pro Orange 80tx

Irons: Taylormade P770 4-PW - Modus 130s

Wedges: Vokey SM8 50.14F Modus 130x, SM9 54.12 - 58.12 - Modus 130x 

Putter: Ping PLD Anser 

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I did this for much of the early summer this year.  Used my Eidolon 54* inside of 100 for all shots.  Later in the summer I added a 57* when the greens got faster and I needed more loft/stopping power - but I'm not sure it really matters.  The great thing about only carrying one short game wedge, is you can go and practice with just the one club and hit all the shots and get to know how that club works in and out - and you eliminate that confusion you get when switching clubs for shots around the green  &on how hard to hit each club - if you're only are using one club you have no doubts.

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18 hours ago, mizunotpz said:

If youre not on a really tight lie the wide sole will be fine. But since the sole is wide it will have more actual bounce than stated on the club. But your misses sounds more like your error. I would suggest looking over your technique. Not saying its bad, but I should check and go over the fundamentals. Ball position. I always play my chip shots with 54 slightly inside my right foot. And get my chest a little infront of the ball and open the stance but have the shoulders to the target. And like 60-40% weight distribution all through the shot. If you havent thought about this key marks I would advice you to!!

 

Bounce the measure of angle between the leading edge and the center of the sole.  "Since the sole is wide it will have more actual bounce" is absolute nonsense.  The angle is the angle.

 

Ball position is totally player dependent.  There are people who play the ball pretty much everywhere, including in front of their left foot, and who hover the wedge a few inches behind a very-forward ball (Kuchar).  The key to the short game is to control low point, control loft at impact, and alignment.  Anything else is noise.  There is no such thing as something you "must do" within 20 yards of the green.

 

The best ball-back "system" is Utley and the best ball-forward "system" is Siedeckman but even Utley advises forward of center.  One of the biggest differences in visuals between tour pros and amateurs is ball position in the short game.  Back is much harder than forward, generally because when pros play the ball back they compensate by leaning their spine left and amateurs keep the full-swing right-shoulder-under posture.

Edited by pinestreetgolf
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G400 Max 9* Ventus Red 5X, SIM Ventus Red 6X 

Callaway Mavrik 4 (18*) - AW (46*) Project X 5.5

Vokey SM4 50* SM5 56*

Cameron Phantom 5S

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I use my 58* a majority of the time, but definitely find value in carrying my other wedges for around the greens. I've started to really learn how to use the bounce with all of my wedges, creating additional trajectories, so I can have several different shots in my bag around the green. 

 

For a number of years, I didn't use my other wedges aside from full swing, so you can definitely drop them and still play well. Why not drop them for a few rounds and see what you think...

Cobra LTDx LS - Oban Kiyoshi HB-65
Cobra F8 4w - Tour AD IZ-7s
Cobra 4h - SmacWrap 780 ES x
Cobra Forged Tec Black - AMT x100
Titleist Vokey 50/54/58 SM9
Edel E-1

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I'm thinking of doing this,

which I believe is in the spirit of this thread:

49* set GW (full swing 104y)

53/10* T20 (92y)

New -> 55/56* "SW" (86y)

57/11* T20 (81y)

60* LW

 

I do suffer from the "too many choices" problem.

 

I find that I am not using the 53* because I don't like it for full swing shots, and it's not different enough from the 57* for pitching and chipping. For most pitching the 57* works better for me.

 

I tried a Ping Glide 3.0 56* WS and really liked it. It went 86y full swing. So it may fill the bill for me.

 

I'm not giving up the LW. It's a specialty club; there are a couple of key shots it can do much better than a SW. One is flop of course. The other is chipping from really short distance, and/or in a bad lie where I want to lean the shaft forward and make an aggressive motion.

 

I don't need more clubs higher up in the bag. With the new slot opening up, I'll probably put in a left-handed Cleveland Launcher HB 7i that I like to practice with. I can hit LH punch-outs nicely, and it goes 140y full swing.

 

Question: What do you all plan to do with the slot opened up by dropping a wedge?

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I primarily use a 54 around the greens for chips and inside 115 yards.  58 I use out of bunkers or short sided shots primarily and rarely use full swings with it.  

Cobra Aerojet 9* - LAGP A Series X Mid 

Cobra LTDX 3W - Tensei 1K 75 TX 

New Level 18* KBS Tour Prototype 105X / Cobra LTDX 5w - Tensei Black 85 TX

Artisan HM's / Custom Nike VR Pro Blades - 6.5 Project X Blackouts

Mizuno T22 Copper 50/54 - Project X Blackout 7.0 Spinners

Vokey 58 T Grind - Project X 6.5 Blackout

Artisan 0521 w/ LAGP 135  / Compass G.O.A.T  w/ LAGP135 / LegacyGoods Widebody w/ KBS One Step / Byron DH89 w/ LAGP135 / Cameron Studio 1.5 w/ UST All in

Bridgestone Tour BXS 

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yes. Ive played my whole life like this, but then i added a 60 for sand work......i am a firm believe in learning to make SHOTS over using another club, especially using 4 wedges....its completely unnecessary IMO.   i use a 54 and a 60.....done.......

 

Truth be told, i did experiment for a few seasons with 4 wedges but my scores were effected in a negative manner......

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I've gone 50/54/58, but in reality I'd say over 90% of the shots I hit around the green are with my 54. I've added a little bit of lead tape in the small cavity on the back of my Engage and it is fantastic - almost feels automatic around the greens.

The Dee Three - Titleist TS4 9.5 deg, EvenFlow White 6.5 65g, A1 Setting

Henrik - Titleist 917 F3 15 deg, Rogue Max 75x, B2 Setting

The Walking Stick - Titleist 818 H2 19 deg, Rogue Max 85x, B2 Setting

The Interloper - TaylorMade P770 3 iron, S400 Tour Issue, +0.5inch +1 deg loft

The Blades - Nike VR Pro 4 - AW, S400 Tour Issue, +0.5 inch

The Sand Iron - TaylorMade MG2 TW-12 Grind, 56 degree, S400 Tour Issue

The Flopper - TaylorMade MG2 TW-11 Grind, 60 Degree, S400 Tour Issue

The Putter - Nike Method 003 from The Oven

 

"Golf is only called golf as all the other four letter words have been taken"     - Leslie Nielsen

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How many wedges you have now then? When you say "thinking of going to 50/54/58.." that's pretty much a full compliment of wedges anyway, rarely see more than 3 wedges in a WITB. 

 

Anyway, best thing to do is play a few months with just that 54 and see if it badly affects your game. If not, stick with it. 

 

Personally i have an old pw (49o?) and a 56o in the bag for a few years now. My other bag (at home) has a 50o and 60o. Either combo works fine for me. I find going light more important than potentially having a lower hc. I rather have 4 - 5 swings with one club than 4-5 clubs with one swing. 

Bag 1: 2h: Srixon ZX4h: TM M1 ('17) ; Irons: MD Golf 7i & 9i, Wedges: RTX full face 52o & 58o; Putter: Spalding Pro Flite

 

Bag 2: 3h: Nickent 3dx; 3i: Cobra One-Length utility; 7i: TM M4; 8/9i: Inesis 500; Wedges: AW: TM RSi (50o); Cleveland RTX full face 54o; RTX 588 60o; Putter: Ping

 

 

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This is very interesting/timely conversation because I have been building out new combos for the last week.  I currently have 50/54/58 Ripcore w/ a 46 PW.  For last several rounds I am overly chunking my 50 when 100 yrds out.  It's so frustrating.  I decided to order new 50/54/58 combo however I am going to have them bent 1* weak giving me extra bounce and hopefully that will offset my issues.  Although I could bend my current set, I think it's easier to just order new to specs I am looking for.  However I am toying with idea of 52/56 combo to simply my wedge set and mentally see a 52 over my stubborn 50.  Truthfully, I need to learn to hit wedges better and not blame the equipment. 

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The debate rumbles on.. just experiment I made the change from 54/60 a few years back to 50/54/58 or 62 but found I much prefer two wedges take out some of the choice ans confusion for me and find I commit to my shots better 

now play 52° bent to 50.5° and 58° jaws 

 

the bending of the 52 was mainly just to help with my gapping as wedge is 46 and 47 in either set I have  

 

trial and error and can’t advocate enough with the others that practice practice practice with your set up and it will come

 

i May in theory only carry the 52/58 wedge combo but there’s often plays to be had for me at my course with little chipped bump an runs which I use 7 to PW for 

 

D- Ping G410 SFT - Oban Iwasa 04 

3Wd - Ping G425 SFT - Ping Tour Stiff 

4# Srixon ZX5 Tour AD DI 95 Stiff

5+6# Srixon ZX5 - MMT 105 S

7-PW# Srixon ZX7 - MMT 105 S

50 - Vokey SM8

56 - TM MG3 Tiger Spec

P- Betti Queen B #12

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9 minutes ago, JHone said:

I went with a taylormade hi-toe 56 bent 1 degree strong so I could get the full face grooves.  I love it so far.

Interesting.  I was actually thinking going the other way....54/12 Ripcore bent 1* weak.  However, conditions are usually soft/soggy in my area, and I generally prefer to de-loft a good amount.

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Just now, kstrong84 said:

Interesting.  I was actually thinking going the other way....54/12 Ripcore bent 1* weak.  However, conditions are usually soft/soggy in my area, and I generally prefer to de-loft a good amount.

Yeah I think it would really come down to where you play.  On the hi toe the 54 has regular scoring line and the 56 has full face.  That was really the only reason I went with the 56.  I don't think you can go wrong either way.

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On 10/24/2020 at 6:58 PM, ChipNRun said:

Depends on how much you can break down your tempo.

 

image.png.772f5b302767f9f4ae2993239848428d.pngDave Pelz suggests having greenside pitches and full wedges, along with three partial-distance shots per wedge. He gauges  these shots using "clockface position" of the lead arm at top of backswing:

  • 7:30 (50%)
  • 9:00 (75%)
  • 10:30 (90%)

I do 7:30 and 9:00, but can't split out the 10:30 reliably. (I just jump to full shot)

 

A local pro known as a short-game guru holds that he can coax out five partial wedge positions.

 

If you have "the touch" - I know some people who do - go with it! I don't, I struggle to be a good "clockface" mechanic.

 

Note on 54* vs. 56*. I have played well with both.  The 54* seems slightly better as a pitching club, while the 56* slightly better as a bunker club. If the 54* can get you out of the sand, you're in good shape.

 

 

I've never understood the half hour increments on this theory. Why would it be 10:30 when it refers to the hour hand. It always made it more confusing unnecessarily, but I could be missing something.  

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This is very interesting, I had no idea so many people played a 54° wedge.  I've never played a 54° wedge in my entire life. 

When I started, they didn't exist (neither did the 60) so it was SW/56° for everything.  Then when the 60° came along, in my bag it went - magical.  Then someone had the foresight to create gap wedges ... Violà 50/56/60 and that's all she wrote.

I use whatever club/swing that the shot requires and these 3 wedges pretty much cover 95% of what I need.

If you don't have a lot of time to practice, IMO it is much easier to learn 3 basic short swings (7:00/8:00/9:00) and use 2/3/4 clubs to get different trajectories, spin and rollout as needed.  But as I grew up doing everything with my SW I understand that approach too.  The fact that I could practice for hours and hours a week helped a lot.

TaylorMade M5 10.5° /  Project X HZRDUS Smoke 60 S
Cobra King Speedzone 18.5@17° / Project X HZRDUS Smoke 70 S
TaylorMade  M3 3/19° Rescue/ Aldila NV 2KXV Blue 80H S
Callaway X Forged Utility 21°@22° /  TT Elevate 95 S

Honma T//World Rose Proto MB 5-10 / N.S. Pro Modus3 120TX
Edison 51° / DG Tour Issue X100
Mizuno T20 56° / DG Tour Issue X100
Mizuno T22 60° / DG Tour Issue S400
L.A.B. B.2 Brass/ BGT Stability Tour Black
Maxfli Tour X

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6 hours ago, wakit300 said:

This is very interesting, I had no idea so many people played a 54° wedge.  I've never played a 54° wedge in my entire life. 

When I started, they didn't exist (neither did the 60) so it was SW/56° for everything.

 

In the pre-2000 era, 55° or 56° were a common loft for Sand Wedges. Traditional wisdom said that you needed at least 55° to exit the sand efficiently. 

 

A survey of golf club specifications from the 1970s through early 1990s appears in Ralph Maltby's book, Golf Club Design, Fitting, Assembly and Repair (4th ed., 1995). Most SWs show up at 55° or 56°, along with some wild cards down to 42° (by George Izett 1986) up to 58°.

 

The below table shows high-lofted club specs from various sources for specific models.

                     
  Year Model 9i PW W2 GW SW S2 LW  
  1972 MacGregor MT 45° 49°     56°      
  1982 Ping Eye2 45° 50.5°     57.5°   61°  
  1988 T. Armour Silver Scot 845 43° 47°   51° 55°   60°  
  1996 Wilson Staff RT Midsize 43° 47°     56°      
  1999 Ben Hogan Apex 44° 48°     56°      
  2000 Callaway X14 42° 46.5°   51° 55°   60°  
  2011 Titleist AP1 712 41° 45°   50°        
  2016 Ping G 40° 45°   50° 54°   58°  
  2017 Titleist AP1 718 38° 43° 48° 53°        
                     

Online stories from Golf Digest and Golfweek suggest that SWs range in loft from 54-58°. Vokey, Callaway and Cleveland wedge pages peg SWs at 54-56° in loft.

 

 

What's In The Bag (As of April 2023, post-MAX change + new putter)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5° (base loft); weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Calla Mavrik MAX 5i-PW

Wedges*:  Calla MD3: 48°... MD4: 54°, 58° ||  PutterΨSeeMore FGP + SuperStroke 1.0PT, 33" shaft

Ball: 1. Srixon Q-Star Tour / 2. Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

    * MD4 54°/10 S-Grind replaced MD3 54°/12 W-Grind.

     Ψ  Backups:

  • Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced) + Evnroll Gravity Grip |
  • Slotline Inertial SL-583F w/ SuperStroke 2.MidSlim (50 gr. weight removed) |
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I have used a 54* as my everything club, but have always slide back to a 52* Cleveland.  Other than deep sand I use my current 52/10 CBX on pretty much every shot from about 95 yards in.

Big Bertha Alpha 815 Speeder 565 R or TMAG SIM max Riptide R shaft
XHot Callaway 3w
19, 23 & 26 X2Hot Callaway
5 to Gap Apex DCB Recoil Dart F3
Scotty Kombi
52/11 Cleveland CBX 56 Tmag ATV

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