New wilson irons?

[Mookieb10]

16 hours ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

 

As far as Europe, or at least Finland, Wilson is the same as the other big brands. If you go into a golf shop here Wilson will have a display/racks the same size as any of the other manufacturers, and sometimes bigger (than for example Ping, Mizuno or Cleveland/Srixon at one store I know). The course nearest to me is the base for the regional rep. I see them at demo days, clinics, etc.

 

Is this not the case in the US?

not even close. I don’t know if Wilson even have a display in the local Golf Galaxy. I know the V6’s haven’t had a display for at least 18 months. 

[Mookieb10]

15 hours ago, xkilgorextroutx said:

 

Tarnished? Hardly.

 

Under represented? Surely.

 

Based on the excitement and positivity seen in multiple threads here about the new irons, I think saying they have a "tarnished" reputation is a stretch. Are they seen in the same light as Callaway or Ping? No. But nor are they looked down upon like a Warrior.

 

Too many people equate Wilson with cheap boxed sets, which is absurd given Callaway, Cobra, and so many others offer discounted sets. Wilson/Staff has had a solid showing for quite some time. It's posts that call them "tarnished" that helps perpetuate that myth. Yes they absolutely could be doing a better job of brand awareness and their distribution needs to be improved. But neither of those would equate to calling them "tarnished".

 

 

In terms of golf branding, what would constitute a “tarnished reputation” more than admitting, as you have, that “too many people equate Wilson with cheap boxed sets”? 

[rxk9fan]

The words Wilson Staff make me think of quality and great players of the past.  But, Wilson has a lot of work in front of them to have any chance of returning to glory days of old.  I would love to stick them in my bag and the blades and new CB's look like clubs I would play.  However, Wilson is not making the investment to make that happen anywhere close to me.  If they can't get them in mass to fitting carts and demo days, if they can't offer a significant number of shafts at no up-charge, if they can't get them in golf shops in large numbers I don't see a return to where they were.  Great product...who knows.  Too many can't find them to hit them at all, or with a shaft they might play.  Wilson worked themselves out of the golf scene years ago.  Now it would take a lot of work to get them back on the main stage.

I am pulling for them.  I would love to bag them and love them.  I just may never hit one again?  I have no problem getting my hands on a lot of other quality clubs to demo.

Edited October 28, 2020 by rxk9fan

[ShakeyT]

Lots of great discussion about the new irons in here. 🙄

[braincramp52]

47 minutes ago, ShakeyT said:

Lots of great discussion about the new irons in here. 🙄

 

As a Wilson fan there's not a lot else to talk about except looks since no one has them. All the talk has been on topic because many here would love to try these but that's hard to do if you can't find them. I believe Wilson is making a slow comeback. It doesn't happen overnight. 

[rainkingjr]

Seriously. Every time a thread is started about Wilson equipment, it ultimately devolves into a pissing match about Wilson being a big box store brand. I've played Wilson clubs off and on for the past 30 years. These new Cb's look awesome. They'll have big shoes to fill as I believe the V6's are some of the best player's cb's ever.

[braincramp52]

57 minutes ago, rainkingjr said:

Seriously. Every time a thread is started about Wilson equipment, it ultimately devolves into a pissing match about Wilson being a big box store brand. I've played Wilson clubs off and on for the past 30 years. These new Cb's look awesome. They'll have big shoes to fill as I believe the V6's are some of the best player's cb's ever.

Well said!

[xkilgorextroutx]

3 hours ago, Mookieb10 said:

In terms of golf branding, what would constitute a “tarnished reputation” more than admitting, as you have, that “too many people equate Wilson with cheap boxed sets”? 

 

Wilson's marketing and brand messaging absolutely needs work. No doubt about it. A tarnished reputation is that of shoddy equipment and poor performance, which Wilson/Staff does not have.

 

Would it have been better for them to have very separate names for their big box brand clubs, like Callaway did with Strata? Yeah, most likely. Would they be able to really help consumers differentiate between their boxed sets and their higher quality lines if they had better marketing and messaging? Absolutely.

 

But comments and posts from people who should know better that help perpetuate the myth that W/S clubs aren't good help add to that false "tarnished" reputation. 

[radiman]

1 hour ago, braincramp52 said:

 

As a Wilson fan there's not a lot else to talk about except looks since no one has them. All the talk has been on topic because many here would love to try these but that's hard to do if you can't find them. I believe Wilson is making a slow comeback. It doesn't happen overnight. 

That will be the deciding factor for me.  I have a few different sets on my radar just from pics and release media.  X Forged CB/Apex MB combo, Cobra King Tour MIM, and these Wilson Staff CB's.  I know without a doubt that in a few months time, I can go in and test the Callaway and Cobra offerings.  There is a very good chance that I won't have the opportunity to even give Wilson a chance which is a shame.  They keep coming out with releases like this and up their marketing game and they'll get there some day.  

[orr444]

I have played a lot of W/S products. All were high end quality clubs. But they do have some problems. Example the new tour ball. I bought a dozen waited 8 weeks and finally got them. Its a very good ball (staff model ball). To get it you had to buy direct from Wilson. When I went to get another dozen they were out. Couldn't find any at the big golf stores for me it was badly mis managed. Why release it if your not going to sell it. Tim Clarke should know better. 

[Mookieb10]

52 minutes ago, xkilgorextroutx said:

 

Wilson's marketing and brand messaging absolutely needs work. No doubt about it. A tarnished reputation is that of shoddy equipment and poor performance, which Wilson/Staff does not have.

 

Would it have been better for them to have very separate names for their big box brand clubs, like Callaway did with Strata? Yeah, most likely. Would they be able to really help consumers differentiate between their boxed sets and their higher quality lines if they had better marketing and messaging? Absolutely.

 

But comments and posts from people who should know better that help perpetuate the myth that W/S clubs aren't good help add to that false "tarnished" reputation. 

Perhaps we are just talking past each other, because I do understand what you are saying, and your good self has a grasp on what’s happened to the Wilson brand. Where we differ is on the perspective of what a consumer “should feel” about a company. Here, on WRX, I’ve not seen a negative word spoken in this thread about this beautiful stick. The issue is that we on WRX can hardly call ourselves a proper representation of the average golf consumer. If we were, all irons would come with a raw option and golf club manufacturing would be more lucrative than crude oil exploration. I hate to use metaphor when unneeded, but this discussion we are having About how a consumer “should feel” about a product is like having a Michelin Star restaurant, with an obnoxious menu and no customers. The median customer will tell you the reputation with their wallets, not the connoisseur with their words. 
 

For whatever reason you would like to give, Wilson has put out a proper, beautiful, elite CB irons at 80% of the cost of the market’s high-ish end. We are the benefactors, be it brand diminution or some other factor. This is all that matters. 

[ZA206]

Those are some nice looking CB's!

 

Wilson needs more of a tour presence for people to take them seriously IMO. All they are known for is irons and wedges.... kinda like Mizuno, but with a questionable reputation. Mizuno has a fantastic reputation and they pretty much sell themselves and actually have a market presence in the USA. 

 

I agree with others that W/S needs to be branded away from Wilson.... not sure how they are to do that. When I think of Wilson, I think back to my first set of clubs, Wilson 1200 LT's from the early 90's.... that I bought as a full set from a box store....

 

-ZA

 

 

[NRJyzr]

22 hours ago, jongalt55 said:

Is that a bore-thru hosel I'm seeing in some of the pics?  Odd nowadays.  Wonder why...

 

It's a return, or continued use of (FG Tour 100 had this also), their Fluid Feel hosel.  It's actually not a full bore-thru.  They drill out the hosel all the way through the sole, but not for shaft purposes.  It's been marketed as a feel thing, hence the Fluid Feel name that goes back decades, but IMHO it's really about removing some weight from the heel side in order to help shift the CG towards the clubface center.

 

WIlson were possibly (likely?) the first company to make a serious effort to move the CG away from the hosel.  Their musclebacks had a lot of upsweeping-to-toe, and then the Fluid Feel to remove weight from the heel side.

 

[ShakeyT]

I'd like to see a known LPGA player put these in the bag & win. I can't remember the last time Wilson having a presence on the ladies tour.

[boggyman]

I’d love to see these available in a raw finish please!!!!!!!

[ProjectX]

48 minutes ago, ShakeyT said:

I'd like to see a known LPGA player put these in the bag & win. I can't remember the last time Wilson having a presence on the ladies tour.

It would take someone putting them in play of their own accord. Wilson barely puts any money into the PGA Tour where the players who win actually sell clubs. Nobody would notice a woman winning with them.

 

What they really need is a free agent like Koepka dumping his Mizuno's for these and winning a major. Something like that would actually move the needle.

[farris207]

Really excited about trying these irons out.

[Sef]

On 10/27/2020 at 8:24 PM, QuigleyDU said:

I think you are missing my point. It’s for sure my fault. I have never once said their products are bad or low quality. They had a time they pushed very hard at very low cost, entry level equipment. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. They made a lot of money that way. But Walmart box sets do not scream quality. I think we can agree on that. 
 

they have also had repeated marketing gaffs that have not gone well. Again, not a knock on the quality, But very poor marketing. Driver vs. driver winner released then deemed none conforming. For example. The driver was quality but marketing and application was very bad.. there are more of these.

 

The triton driver is regularly mentioned in wrx threads about the worst clubs ever. Right after the Cleveland vas irons. The driver was decent but the marketing message messed it up.

 

because of my experience in golf retail, I have personally witnessed many many many that say. “Wilson? No thanks”. Without even trying it to see if it is good! 

 

Personally, I am about as brand agnostic as it gets. I hold no OEM higher than another.
 

I hope these do well. But Wilson has an up hill climb regardless of it quality..which I think is on par with everyone else.

 

 

Yep, I see your point there. Hopefully more people will give them a shot.

[Sef]

12 hours ago, ProjectX said:

It would take someone putting them in play of their own accord. Wilson barely puts any money into the PGA Tour where the players who win actually sell clubs. Nobody would notice a woman winning with them.

 

What they really need is a free agent like Koepka dumping his Mizuno's for these and winning a major. Something like that would actually move the needle.

Not as big of a name but didn’t Woodland win a major with W/S in the bag?

 

I believe what they really need is a competitive driver. The driver is the halo product of the brand and if your driver is designed on a tv show, works like a lego set, has a dead shut face, a ridiculous mohawk, or sounds like an aluminum bat no one will take it seriously.

 

Callaway, TM, and Ping get so much publicity for their drivers. Even Srixon and Mizuno have gotten competitive in the driver game. Titleist drops TSi and it’s the #1 driver on tour. For WRX gearheads we recognize great clubs from any brand, but your average golfer is more interested the driver. Almost every average golfer I know has Callaway or TM irons, maybe Ping, and bought the irons based on their driver.

[elwhippy]

These look fantastic. Another top quality Wilson product that will be ignored by the majority. 

[Thayneil]

I heard even in the 50s and 60s Wilsons were more playable than Macgregors due to the c of g and macgreogors long hozels

[ProjectX]

5 hours ago, Sef said:

Not as big of a name but didn’t Woodland win a major with W/S in the bag?

 

I believe what they really need is a competitive driver. The driver is the halo product of the brand and if your driver is designed on a tv show, works like a lego set, has a dead shut face, a ridiculous mohawk, or sounds like an aluminum bat no one will take it seriously.

 

Callaway, TM, and Ping get so much publicity for their drivers. Even Srixon and Mizuno have gotten competitive in the driver game. Titleist drops TSi and it’s the #1 driver on tour. For WRX gearheads we recognize great clubs from any brand, but your average golfer is more interested the driver. Almost every average golfer I know has Callaway or TM irons, maybe Ping, and bought the irons based on their driver.

I think I agree with you everywhere except you are doing a disservice to aluminum bats by lumping them in with the Triton. I've never had a bat that sounded that bad.

[xkilgorextroutx]

1 hour ago, ProjectX said:

I think I agree with you everywhere except you are doing a disservice to aluminum bats by lumping them in with the Triton. I've never had a bat that sounded that bad.

 

For all my pumping the tires of W/S the past few days, I will say that if they actually came out with a good driver that had some appeal, that might go a long way towards helping people take notice. Their irons - fantastic. Wedges - great feel. Putters - amazing value. Drivers - ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I've tried the Triton, the Cortex, and latest was the D7. None of them felt great or gave me anything better than many other drivers I've had in the bag. 

 

DvD was a great idea but yeah the execution in the end left a little to be desired. 

[QuigleyDU]

8 hours ago, Sef said:

Yep, I see your point there. Hopefully more people will give them a shot.

Here is another very real world example. Working yesterday a customer asked me what was coming out. I mentioned the Wilson staff CBs. I got a "pfft" and a dismissing hand waive as he walked over to the Taylormade section..

 

THESE ARE NOT EVEN OUT YET! Yet the very first person I mentioned them to dismissed them like I held up a stinky diaper.. That is what they have to overcome. It will be hard and it has nothing to do with quality. It is an image issue.

[QuigleyDU]

1 hour ago, xkilgorextroutx said:

 

For all my pumping the tires of W/S the past few days, I will say that if they actually came out with a good driver that had some appeal, that might go a long way towards helping people take notice. Their irons - fantastic. Wedges - great feel. Putters - amazing value. Drivers - ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. I've tried the Triton, the Cortex, and latest was the D7. None of them felt great or gave me anything better than many other drivers I've had in the bag. 

 

DvD was a great idea but yeah the execution in the end left a little to be desired. 

I agree with you.. They need a strong driver contender. Their infinity line of putters may be the best buck for bang putter out there. They are pretty good for $99...

[radiman]

3 minutes ago, QuigleyDU said:

I agree with you.. They need a strong driver contender. Their infinity line of putters may be the best buck for bang putter out there. They are pretty good for $99...

I agree with this.  I think they need to dump DvD though.  The idea that their own engineers can't come up with a winner is a big strike against the company in my eyes.  It feels super gimmicky to me.  Have a bunch of randos try to come up with something as amateur designers and then expecting the consumer to spend top dollar on it seems ridiculous.  I get that the show is essentially a weekly infomercial for the brand.  But, I personally feel like it does more harm to the conception of the brand than it helps.

[QuigleyDU]

2 minutes ago, radiman said:

I agree with this.  I think they need to dump DvD though.  The idea that their own engineers can't come up with a winner is a big strike against the company in my eyes.  It feels super gimmicky to me.  Have a bunch of randos try to come up with something as amateur designers and then expecting the consumer to spend top dollar on it seems ridiculous.  I get that the show is essentially a weekly infomercial for the brand.  But, I personally feel like it does more harm to the conception of the brand than it helps.

The WLabs driver that Woodland played for a bit (last I checked it was out of the bag). Will be released the first part of next year but with a different currently undisclosed name.. We will have to see how that performs..

[kmay__]

12 minutes ago, QuigleyDU said:

Here is another very real world example. Working yesterday a customer asked me what was coming out. I mentioned the Wilson staff CBs. I got a "pfft" and a dismissing hand waive as he walked over to the Taylormade section..

 

THESE ARE NOT EVEN OUT YET! Yet the very first person I mentioned them to dismissed them like I held up a stinky diaper.. That is what they have to overcome. It will be hard and it has nothing to do with quality. It is an image issue.

So you went to bat for W/S and explained to the guy their products are just as good of quality as any of the other leading brands? Or you just let the bad rep continue on in your customers mind? 

 

You are preaching that they need to really turn things around to improve their brand image, so as an employee working in the golf industry, did you help to turn that bad image around? 

 

I don't really care, it just seems as passionate as you are in this thread about what work they need to do to convince the everyday customer of their quality, you surely would have taken the opportunity to open this customer eyes to the history of high quality gear put out by Wilson in the past and still to this day. 

[radiman]

1 minute ago, kmay__ said:

So you went to bat for W/S and explained to the guy their products are just as good of quality as any of the other leading brands? Or you just let the bad rep continue on in your customers mind? 

 

You are preaching that they need to really turn things around to improve their brand image, so as an employee working in the golf industry, did you help to turn that bad image around? 

 

I don't really care, it just seems as passionate as you are in this thread about what work they need to do to convince the everyday customer of their quality, you surely would have taken the opportunity to open this customer eyes to the history of high quality gear put out by Wilson in the past and still to this day. 

Why would he have to do that?  It is up to the brand to up their perception.  Not some random shop employee.  He doesn't rep any one specific brand.  He doesn't owe it to Wilson to make up for their lack of quality marketing.   

[QuigleyDU]

5 minutes ago, kmay__ said:

So you went to bat for W/S and explained to the guy their products are just as good of quality as any of the other leading brands? Or you just let the bad rep continue on in your customers mind? 

 

You are preaching that they need to really turn things around to improve their brand image, so as an employee working in the golf industry, did you help to turn that bad image around? 

 

I don't really care, it just seems as passionate as you are in this thread about what work they need to do to convince the everyday customer of their quality, you surely would have taken the opportunity to open this customer eyes to the history of high quality gear put out by Wilson in the past and still to this day. 

 

Given that these irons are not out yet. There is really not much I can go to bat on except a picture.. I did say "they look really good to me. They are the V6 replacement which was a great iron".. But honestly, I have no idea how these perform yet.. Also, I NEVER NEVER NEVER press one product over another. 

 

When asked what I like. I always say "it does not matter what I like". "My swing is not your swing, and my game is not your game". 

 

The point is that it was an immediate dismissal. Not even a "hmm that is interesting". 

Edited October 29, 2020 by QuigleyDU