Have distance irons harmed your golf game?

[Krt22]

4 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Right.  But. A decent amount of swing speed plus the low spin flyer will.  It exists.  It’s not even debatable.  It’s not a “ hotspot “ it’s when you catch one a good bit higher on the face that the Vcog but middle.   Or... get some grass between the face and ball on that same higher spot.  It launches like a tees up driver and barely spins.  

Agreed, but fliers can happen with any iron.

[Bad9]

7 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Right.  But. A decent amount of swing speed plus the low spin flyer will.  It exists.  It’s not even debatable.  It’s not a “ hotspot “ it’s when you catch one a good bit higher on the face that the Vcog but middle.   Or... get some grass between the face and ball on that same higher spot.  It launches like a tees up driver and barely spins.  

None of which is a factor in the OP's first post and to which I responded. His only claim was that the 30yds were the result of hitting on the sweetspot and the ball "explodes off the clubface" to missing by "even a centimetre" and he lost 30yds.

[Bad9]

7 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Right.  But. A decent amount of swing speed plus the low spin flyer will.  It exists.  It’s not even debatable.  It’s not a “ hotspot “ it’s when you catch one a good bit higher on the face that the Vcog but middle.   Or... get some grass between the face and ball on that same higher spot.  It launches like a tees up driver and barely spins.  

None of which is a factor in the OP's first post and to which I responded. His only claim was that the 30yds were the result of hitting on the sweetspot and the ball "explodes off the clubface" to missing by "even a centimetre" and he lost 30yds.

[bladehunter]

5 minutes ago, Bad9 said:

None of which is a factor in the OP's first post and to which I responded. His only claim was that the 30yds were the result of hitting on the sweetspot and the ball "explodes off the clubface" to missing by "even a centimetre" and he lost 30yds.

Yep. I suppose on that vein. Sure. But I read it to most likely mean exactly what I’m saying.  The difference in strike  from low spin bomb to regular feeling and flying shot on these is a tiny amount .     
 

I have no reason at all to make that up.   I’m not against those irons. I played them a whole  winter and talked about them in a good light.  But .... the erratic distances are a real thing.  I could manage.  But still it’s real.  

Edited October 28, 2020 by bladehunter

[bladehunter]

9 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Agreed, but fliers can happen with any iron.

Yes. But the flier  that happens with most is a low center strike with grass between ball and club.  I saw some of that too. But the others were just knuckle balls from anywhere.   Random.  

[MtlJeff]

The threads here just become these outlandish caricatures of real life events, it has always been like this , not saying it's a new thing. 

 

Obviously there are differences between distance irons and your typical players clubs. But to hear some people talk it's like you can barely play golf with one and are awesome with the other. This is not reality it's fantasy. My average score ( i think ~75 this season) would likely be within 1 shot with literally any set of irons on the market. Guys are like "no i can't use distance irons, one shot goes 140yds and then the next goes 200 with the exact same swing!"....LOL

 

The reverse is also true. It's not like hitting a blade is like pulling out King Arthur's sword. Other than the 3-5 irons any iron is pretty easy to hit. 

 

Now if you'll excuse me, i have to go post in a thread about cutting 1/32nd of an inch off your driver shaft so you'll hit every fairway instead of missing every fairway

Edited October 28, 2020 by MtlJeff

[Krt22]

4 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Yes. But the flier  that happens with most is a low center strike with grass between ball and club.  I saw some of that too. But the others were just knuckle balls from anywhere.   Random.  

But at the end of the day, a flier doesn't go 35 yards further. Flightscopes optimizer says 12yrds of carry on a 7i (assuming PGA tour avg ball speed of 120), when you drop from 7k to 4k in spin. I am a 120 ball speed guy with 7i, play a variety of irons at the same exact loft (32*, J15CBs, MP20MMC, P790s) and I don't get the jumper that goes from 170 carry to 200. Even out of the perfect flier lie (sitting up in fluffy bermuda), its at most a 185 carry. 

[xmanhockey7]

21 hours ago, PJF7789 said:

Last summer I finally bit the bullet and bought new irons. I had been consistently shooting in Mid-80’s and decided to reward my hard work. My low score last spring was an 82. I figured now that I had consistency down, adding distance was the piece of my game that was missing. 
 

I was fit for a set T300’s with Project X LZ 120’s in 6.0 - I gained a considerable amount of distance, and can consistently hit draws and a baby cut. During my fitting I tried the Mavricks, JPX 919, and G410 - the T300’s were the most consistent on the monitor (indoor fitting - first mistake) so I pulled the trigger. I didn’t think I was good enough to try the T200’s or T100’s so I didn’t bother. 
 

The question I’m posing is: has anyone else seen their scores go up and GIR go down when switching to distance irons? In my old set of Callaways my 7 iron was consistently 150-155 yards. With the T300’s my 7 iron flys anywhere from 150-185, with the rest of my set having outrageous distance disparity, making my approach shots a total crap shoot. If you strike the ball even a centimeter away from the sweetspot it goes 150, in the sweet spot, the ball literally explodes off the face and goes 185. I have a relatively moderate tempo and prefer heavier, tip and butt stiff shafts so I don’t think my shafts are the issue. My reward for shooting in the 80’s bought me rounds in the mid 90’s 😞 
 

Had anyone else had this problem or made the switch back to normal, or even players irons after trying a distance iron? 
 

Is there a greater chance that this is a swing mechanics issue and not a club issue....are their techniques to finding consistency with “hot” irons? 

 

 

Here you go. Watch this...

 

 

[kiwihacker]

Not to threadjack but ...

 

I play older, weaker lofted irons that are 24° , 27° and 31° in the 4-6 irons.

 

I'm considering updating to a more modern iron and the above lofts will be the 5-7 iron. Are you guys telling me that the 27° modern 6 iron will spin less than my old 27° 5 iron? 

[scooterhd2]

21 hours ago, PJF7789 said:

Last summer I finally bit the bullet and bought new irons. I had been consistently shooting in Mid-80’s and decided to reward my hard work. My low score last spring was an 82. I figured now that I had consistency down, adding distance was the piece of my game that was missing. 
 

I was fit for a set T300’s with Project X LZ 120’s in 6.0 - I gained a considerable amount of distance, and can consistently hit draws and a baby cut. During my fitting I tried the Mavricks, JPX 919, and G410 - the T300’s were the most consistent on the monitor (indoor fitting - first mistake) so I pulled the trigger. I didn’t think I was good enough to try the T200’s or T100’s so I didn’t bother. 
 

The question I’m posing is: has anyone else seen their scores go up and GIR go down when switching to distance irons? In my old set of Callaways my 7 iron was consistently 150-155 yards. With the T300’s my 7 iron flys anywhere from 150-185, with the rest of my set having outrageous distance disparity, making my approach shots a total crap shoot. If you strike the ball even a centimeter away from the sweetspot it goes 150, in the sweet spot, the ball literally explodes off the face and goes 185. I have a relatively moderate tempo and prefer heavier, tip and butt stiff shafts so I don’t think my shafts are the issue. My reward for shooting in the 80’s bought me rounds in the mid 90’s 😞 
 

Had anyone else had this problem or made the switch back to normal, or even players irons after trying a distance iron? 
 

Is there a greater chance that this is a swing mechanics issue and not a club issue....are their techniques to finding consistency with “hot” irons? 

 

 

i did the opposite. was shooting in the 90's. switched to more demanding irons and was so scared that I was going to get so much worse, but actually started hitting greens. the clubs went the same number nearly everytime. felt like a mishit only took off a few yards. and flushing it only made it go a bit higher, but the same number. Much better than thinking you hit a perfect shot to see it go over the green by 15 yards, 

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Krt22 said:

But at the end of the day, a flier doesn't go 35 yards further. Flightscopes optimizer says 12yrds of carry on a 7i (assuming PGA tour avg ball speed of 120), when you drop from 7k to 4k in spin. I am a 120 ball speed guy with 7i, play a variety of irons at the same exact loft (32*, J15CBs, MP20MMC, P790s) and I don't get the jumper that goes from 170 carry to 200. Even out of the perfect flier lie (sitting up in fluffy bermuda), its at most a 185 carry. 

And that could easily be correct if you factor in a back pin and blowing it over the green the stated 15 yards plus roll.  Hyperbole can easily take that 15 plus and make it more.  
 

I specifically said 4 iron though.   What does it say about a low spin high launch long iron?   The ones I’ve seen come out higher than normal and just go. 

[bladehunter]

34 minutes ago, kiwihacker said:

Not to threadjack but ...

 

I play older, weaker lofted irons that are 24° , 27° and 31° in the 4-6 irons.

 

I'm considering updating to a more modern iron and the above lofts will be the 5-7 iron. Are you guys telling me that the 27° modern 6 iron will spin less than my old 27° 5 iron? 

A flexible face one can.  Not will as in absolutely.  But it can. 

[bladehunter]

Lol. I’m out guys. Not sure why I stopped.  The outcome was predetermined.
It’s clear That  everyone here just makes it all up. We haven’t seen what we saw.  And in no way can a distance iron not be best for all !!!   I mean we preach fitting , and now are ruffled when someone suggests the best fit for them isn’t the latest and greatest , or the most forgiving techy tech tech thing.  ( smh). Surely if one thing can be a bad fit for some. The opposite can be a bad fit for others ? And therefore be detrimental to their game.  
 

And heck top ams and pros are picking up p790 and i500 in droves because of their distance control.  👎( sarcasm ). Peace. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by bladehunter

[Krt22]

39 minutes ago, kiwihacker said:

Not to threadjack but ...

 

I play older, weaker lofted irons that are 24° , 27° and 31° in the 4-6 irons.

 

I'm considering updating to a more modern iron and the above lofts will be the 5-7 iron. Are you guys telling me that the 27° modern 6 iron will spin less than my old 27° 5 iron? 

They can based on the CG location. The other thing is the shaft length, assuming a 27* iron at 37" vs a 27* iron at 37.5", the shorter iron should have less CHS and thus less spin

 

7 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

And that could easily be correct if you factor in a back pin and blowing it over the green the stated 15 yards plus roll.  Hyperbole can easily take that 15 plus and make it more.  
 

I specifically said 4 iron though.   What does it say about a low spin high launch long iron?   The ones I’ve seen come out higher than normal and just go. 

Well the OP was talking about his 7i, so I used those numbers I did it for a 4i, 137 ball speed, 11* launch, 4500rpm-204 carry. 137 ball speed, 14* launch, 2750rpm, 216 carry.  Plenty of pros play a P790 or something similar in the 3/4i slot, so obviously not a huge issue for them. The 35yards the OP claims is  almost 3 clubs different, simply not happening due to spin and/or a super hot spot on the face. I think the OP is misjudging the quality of the strike on the ones that really come up short or hyperbole like you said.

 

 

[chipa]

Can someone recommend a softer high spin ball that can be used to offset the lower spin GI distance Irons?

 

They are for my my brother who is playing Cobra SL irons and it is getting cold where he lives so I think the softer ball will definitely help the feel. TIA

[larryd3]

16 hours ago, Clifford said:

I somewhat disagree. I sold my P790s because of that reason. My 7 iron would go 160-170, depends on how solid it was hit but every once in a while it would go 185  over the green into the trees or in the water.  Love the clubs but hated the extra 10-15 yards out of the blue.  I only have a 100-103 mph driver swingspeed, so a 185 yard 7 iron should be impossible.

my buddy who's either a 1 or 2 index plays P790s and doesn't have any problems with distance control.  I've got other friends who are playing irons like Rogues, T200s, etc that aren't getting the crazy flyers being discussed here.  I haven't noticed it at all with my T200s either.  

[bladehunter]

51 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

They can based on the CG location. The other thing is the shaft length, assuming a 27* iron at 37" vs a 27* iron at 37.5", the shorter iron should have less CHS and thus less spin

 

Well the OP was talking about his 7i, so I used those numbers I did it for a 4i, 137 ball speed, 11* launch, 4500rpm-204 carry. 137 ball speed, 14* launch, 2750rpm, 216 carry.  Plenty of pros play a P790 or something similar in the 3/4i slot, so obviously not a huge issue for them. The 35yards the OP claims is  almost 3 clubs different, simply not happening due to spin and/or a super hot spot on the face. I think the OP is misjudging the quality of the strike on the ones that really come up short or hyperbole like you said.

 

 

If you look at my earlier post here ( maybe first one ). I said “ mishit vs low spin high bomb.  So we agree 100 %.  

[llewol007]

Not sure how distance irons really affect you unless you dont know how far you hit your clubs. I remember playing the P790's when they came out and for me it was an adjustment of clubbing down club since the lofts were stronger. That was pretty much it for me. When I circled back to the Mizuno irons I play now, Im about a half club short and so I made the adjustment accordingly. Like I stated before, getting fitted for the right combo of lie, loft, length and specially shaft combo and adding to that, knowing your true yardage for clubs. Not 1 out of every 8 shots that you suddenly hit it 185 instead of 160. 

[Flip4000]

12 hours ago, bvanlieu said:

 

Right, but should you hit a 6i 160-170? I gather your 6i swing speed is in the mid 80s with that driver SS and the answer is yes you should. I know i do and my easy drive is 103ish, 6i ranges 85-88. 3mph plus a better *strike* will equate to 5-7y more.

 

For the 790 , its a club strong. Period. That's the lofts. If you strike it fairly well one must adjust. I blend a 5/6 into my bag and I bent them 2 weak to correctly gap with my 7. 

 

I'm not saying people are making things up: I believe them when they say their results were over greens. I just don't have data for me that supports a hot club. I practice frequently and hit a lot of balls, including with a LM and strike is playing the biggest part of ball speed. The 790's retain a bit more speed on off center hits. I personally have not measured or seen on course, such extreme ball speed deltas off of my OG 790s. So its hard to support a narrative of hot faced clubs that are hard to control 🙂 

 

 

Rick shiels or txg mentioned in a video on the P790s\distance irons. Cant remember which that it was an issue of ball speed retention and spin. Most clubs when you hit one high on the face you get a higher dead low spinning shot. With little mass up there the shot doesn’t retain much ball speed. 

 

These distance irons are excellent at retaining ball speed all over the face. Due to this there is a possibility to hit the higher on the face but with ball speed retention you end up with a ball that has sweet spot like ball speed, but no spin due to high club face contact. 

 

This leads to essentially a flier situation with a low spinning missile that rockets out there with little control.

[nsxguy]

8 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Right.  But. A decent amount of swing speed plus the low spin flyer will.  It exists.  It’s not even debatable.  It’s not a “ hotspot “ it’s when you catch one a good bit higher on the face that the Vcog but middle.   Or... get some grass between the face and ball on that same higher spot.  It launches like a tees up driver and barely spins.  

 

8 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Yes. But the flier  that happens with most is a low center strike with grass between ball and club.  I saw some of that too. But the others were just knuckle balls from anywhere.   Random.  

 

Make up my mind, will ya ? 

 

Agree that on high, or even center strikes out of the rough with grass between ball and club face can cause fliers.

 

But how would a low strike do the same then ?

 

The lower on the face one strikes the ball the lower it launches it and the more it will spin. So a low strike with grass in between will spin a BIT less than it would without the grass but certainly won't spin or fly high enough to be a "flier".

 

[wmblake2000]

Lordy, no. I’ve had P790 for about a year and my iron play is the best, by far, than it’s ever been. 

[PJF7789]

8 hours ago, scooterhd2 said:

 

i did the opposite. was shooting in the 90's. switched to more demanding irons and was so scared that I was going to get so much worse, but actually started hitting greens. the clubs went the same number nearly everytime. felt like a mishit only took off a few yards. and flushing it only made it go a bit higher, but the same number. Much better than thinking you hit a perfect shot to see it go over the green by 15 yards, 

If you don’t mind me asking, what did you switch over to when you say more “demanding”? 
 

I tried a preowned set of MP53’s last year and never felt I’d be able to look down and feel confident. Do your new “demanding” irons offer any help? Or did you switch to a a full MB? 
 

I ask because I’m thinking I want test a set of t100’s, i210’s, or Apex’s and give up on the T300s - which is very out of character for me considering I played my last irons for 10 years and still carry a 2008 Callaway X Hybrid because I’ve yet to find anything that can knock it out of my bag....

Edited October 29, 2020 by PJF7789

[GBBM]

My first thought 

Edited October 29, 2020 by GBBM

[kiwihacker]

Again not wanting to threadjack this topic but what is a 'distance iron' by definition? I mean all irons barring the very best players cavity backs and blades are about a club stronger lofted today than they were 10 or 15 years ago. There are some extreme examples like the T400 or the Mavrick irons that are two clubs stronger than 'traditional' lofts. I thought that was what a distance iron was. The T300s are about average lofts for a modern GI iron aren't they? 

[AndersUK]

Yes.

 

I love the performance and forgiveness of my P790 but they also frustrate the hell out of me sometimes.  I have flown too many greens now to count and then come up short on other holes because of a fear of going too long.

 

This is my take. 

 

I have my own GC2 with HMT and have witnessed almost identical swings and impact/ball positions show faster ball speeds with similar spin rates.  It is NOT ALWAYS the result of low spin balls that creates the fliers.  I suspect the faces are inconsistent. I have also seen countless videos of good players demonstrating distance dispersion issues with hollow, spring faced clubs regardless of the brand.  Matt at PXG has shown this time and time again.  Another pro actually his 10 shots with a P790 and demonstrated a flyer out of a series of hits.  However, I don't want to single out this club as I am convinced they all suffer from it to some degree.

 

Players I know personally that use such irons without issues have sub 80mph 7i swing speeds.  I expect that the higher the swing speed to more inconsistent the face becomes.

 

If there are high swing speed players out there can can honestly attest to not having distance issues then there must be a quality control issue with these type of clubs.  Interestingly you seldom find elite players using them accept maybe for the long irons.

 

I am now in the market for (reasonably) forgiving low-tech, non-distance clubs.  I have my eyes on the Ping I210

[bladehunter]

10 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

Make up my mind, will ya ? 

 

Agree that on high, or even center strikes out of the rough with grass between ball and club face can cause fliers.

 

But how would a low strike do the same then ?

 

The lower on the face one strikes the ball the lower it launches it and the more it will spin. So a low strike with grass in between will spin a BIT less than it would without the grass but certainly won't spin or fly high enough to be a "flier".

 

Low meaning perfect.  I should  have clarified.  I’m saying an otherwise perfect strike with a normal iron plus the grass in between equal fliers normally. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by bladehunter

[Fairway14]

8 hours ago, kiwihacker said:

Again not wanting to threadjack this topic but what is a 'distance iron' by definition? 

Hollow head.

[JDMRN81]

On 10/28/2020 at 2:40 PM, xmanhockey7 said:

 

Here you go. Watch this...

 

 

This is an excellent test and similar to what I've seen over the years as an iron HO.  I've played everything from Hot Metal's to P7TW's (I've owned/played over 20 iron sets the past 3 years).  I currently play iblades (power spec'd) and think they just fit my game the best. My accuracy and distance control on par 3's are where they shine for me.  To OP, sounds/looks like those distance irons are not a good fit for your game, but they are for some.  I highly recommend looking into a smaller cavity back iron with moderate lofts (32* 7i).

 

ETA:  I'd personally look at a set of MMC20's, Z785's, 919 forged, and, even iblades (in power spec'd lofts).  

Edited October 29, 2020 by JDMRN81

[MtlJeff]

3 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

Hollow head.

 

Oh cmon be nice to him, he was just asking a question

[RxGolf1]

19 hours ago, chipa said:

Can someone recommend a softer high spin ball that can be used to offset the lower spin GI distance Irons?

 

They are for my my brother who is playing Cobra SL irons and it is getting cold where he lives so I think the softer ball will definitely help the feel. TIA

Bridgestone BXS