Hank Haney says if you can't hit the long ball the game has passed you by

[Loki]

It does depend on the course. A rope that carries only 180 will roll out to 300 yards on some courses in Scotland. 

[bladehunter]

On 10/29/2020 at 8:56 PM, pinhigh27 said:

How many fairways did Seve hit?

How great would  he have been if he did hit them ?   Just like Phil.  Less driver and more 2 iron would have made both richer .  Today you can’t do that. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by bladehunter

[Forged4ever]

Someone forget to tell ole Freddy😉

 

Plus, Haney's a Putz🥴

 

 

 

Fairways & Greens 4ever My Friends⛳️

RP

Edited November 1, 2020 by Forged4ever

[Shilgy]

14 hours ago, Sean2 said:

A few years ago at the Farmers, the weather was very wet and windy. I saw some drives that didn't carry past 250.

 

I read that some venues cut and roll the fairways, which might explain the amount of roll these guys get. For example, during one tournament Ryan Moore hit a drive that carried 280, but rolled out to 325. 

For 2019, which is the last FULL season on tour the average roll out was 14.1 yards.  A far cry from the numbers tossed about.

Average carry was 279.8 and total was 293.9

 

https://www.pgatour.com/content/pgatour/stats/stat.101.y2019.html

 

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02409.html

[Yuck]

Brian Gay, victory # 5 today......

[hybrid25]

I subscribe and get Hank Haney's golf instruction videos almost on a daily basis , but he sure has a thing for distance. It seems like if you can't hit it 300 yards there's no for you.

[Pepperturbo]

On 10/31/2020 at 8:09 PM, Sean2 said:

A few years ago at the Farmers, the weather was very wet and windy. I saw some drives that didn't carry past 250.

 

I read that some venues cut and roll the fairways, which might explain the amount of roll these guys get. For example, during one tournament Ryan Moore hit a drive that carried 280, but rolled out to 325. 

 

Yep.  I have seen some venues reverse the direction of the turf grain on measuring holes, then roll them. 

[paperclip]

I don't recall him saying that if you don't hit it long, the game has passed you by. What I do know is that he has said many times that distance determines your potential. I believe that point.

 

[RichieHunt]

It's all relative.  The further you hit the ball the lesser skilled you can be with the putter and still sink more putts.  The shorter you hit the ball, the more skilled you have to be with the putter in order to sink putts.

 

Let's say that the minimum ball speed to consistently make it to the Tour Championship is 164 mph (i.e. Zach Johnson type of player).  The increase of speed just means that number would move up to say 168 mph which isn't exactly bombing it.  It's further than it once was, but it's still not even bombing it from the standard of 15 years ago.

 

Distance has always been a good advantage to have, but what gets missed out on Bryson's gains is that he really went about gaining distance 'the right way' and working around some of the common pitfalls super-long bombers have.  Guys like Ryan Brehm and Cameron Champ hit it a mile, but launch it so low that it can create issues for them on some courses and some designs, Bryson figured out how to gain speed with a healthy launch and spin rate.  RE-Max long drive guys usually are poor iron players who can't control their distance because of their spin rate/speed combination and Bryson has found a way to temper that spin rate and speed with his irons.   And many long hitters struggle at courses that require them to lay-up off the tee often (i.e. Sawgrass) but Bryson has been hitting the ball exceptionally well off the tee when he lays up.

 

Distance has always been important and too many experts have denied its importance for too long...in reality because they could never figure out how to actually substantial distance.  But gaining that distance and doing it the right way isn't as easy as people think it is because they've seen Bryson do it in a short time.

 

 

 

RH

[I'_rather_be_golfing]

Am I the only one that thinks this is a great quote to hang up as a reminder?

[physasst]

Heck, even the youtube golf crowd has gotten in on this chase for distance. Andrew Rice vs Martin Chuck vs Mark Crossfield. 

 

 

[Dr. Block]

On 11/1/2020 at 9:07 AM, bladehunter said:

How great would  he have been if he did hit them ?   Just like Phil.  Less driver and more 2 iron would have made both richer .  Today you can’t do that. 

Seve stopped hitting fairways when he got a full-blown case of the driving yips. Sadly, it wasn't a conscious decision for him. What it was - in fact - was a sad end to a very special career. 

[chigolfer1]

On 11/1/2020 at 8:44 AM, Loki said:

It does depend on the course. A rope that carries only 180 will roll out to 300 yards on some courses in Scotland. 

 

Exactly, for majors for sure.  But, obviously not for many random tour events as Brian Gay just clearly demonstrated.

[Pepperturbo]

15 hours ago, paperclip said:

I don't recall him saying that if you don't hit it long, the game has passed you by. What I do know is that he has said many times that distance determines your potential. I believe that point.

 

Haney's quote "If you can't hit the long ball, the game has passed you by!"  It's every bit baloney.

 

Distance does NOT determine potential.  It determines what category you may be in, nor does being a long driver directly translate to WINNER.  Only hitting 275 carry does not mean loser either.  Potential (is not a guarantee) and comes from the mind, and game from body.  Mind controls the body.  There are many long ball hitters on various tours but many of them can't find the fairway with iron, or from the junk using an iron; that's the lack of mind at work.  A persons potential has everything to do with his or her mind.  That's my 2cents. 

[Shilgy]

23 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

 

Yep.  I have seen some venues reverse the direction of the turf grain on measuring holes, then roll them. 

Augusta mows back towards the tee. And says it only makes a 3-4 yard difference. It is more to affect the lie of the shot hit from the fairway. Their fairways are cut at 3/8” . That short a cut the ball wouldn’t be affected much by grain.

[golfandfishing]

15 hours ago, Pepperturbo said:

Haney's quote "If you can't hit the long ball, the game has passed you by!"  It's every bit baloney.

 

Distance does NOT determine potential.  It determines what category you may be in, nor does being a long driver directly translate to WINNER.  Only hitting 275 carry does not mean loser either.  Potential (is not a guarantee) and comes from the mind, and game from body.  Mind controls the body.  There are many long ball hitters on various tours but many of them can't find the fairway with iron, or from the junk using an iron; that's the lack of mind at work.  A persons potential has everything to do with his or her mind.  That's my 2cents. 

Is 275 carry a short hitter?  

[Pepperturbo]

22 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Augusta mows back towards the tee. And says it only makes a 3-4 yard difference. It is more to affect the lie of the shot hit from the fairway. Their fairways are cut at 3/8” . That short a cut the ball wouldn’t be affected much by grain.

Based on my actual experiences playing those conditions, I don't buy that statement.  

[Shilgy]

15 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Based on my actual experiences playing those conditions, I don't buy that statement.  

You have played Augusta National with the fairways cut to Masters speed?   How was it? 🙂

[NoTalentLefty]

Give credit to the new ball and clubs that created the long ball for the change in the game . Combined with conditioning it’s bomb city. 
Not opposed to this but starting in the 2000s everything started to line up for this to happen. 

[bobfoster]

Well, Hank would certainly know about golf passing someone by. 

 

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

[Forged4ever]

Bottom line(I absolutely love sayin this as though I have any clue WTF the "bottom line" is😂😂. Madison never swore when Pete was alive. Now when I say this she just tells me to "STFU"😜), as RH stated, as your driving distance increases, so too does your potential margin for error, versus the shorter hitter that one is, the more pressure that puts on the other areas of their game, specifically their mid-irons, wedges and putter.

 

That "pressure" takes a toll mentally, under the gun, across the years😉

 

Have a Great Weekend Gents👊

RP

Edited November 8, 2020 by Forged4ever

[bscinstnct]

11 hours ago, bobfoster said:

Well, Hank would certainly know about golf passing someone by. 

 

(Sorry, couldn't resist.)

 

Hank has coached lots and lots of other famous players *besides Tiger

 

https://www.mlive.com/sports/saginaw/2012/05/q_and_a_golf_coach_hank_haney.html

 

 

[Dr. Block]

56 minutes ago, bscinstnct said:

 

Hank has coached lots and lots of other famous players *besides Tiger

 

https://www.mlive.com/sports/saginaw/2012/05/q_and_a_golf_coach_hank_haney.html

 

 

How'd you like to be the poor stiff who had to tee all those balls up.  

[BNGL]

Let me first quantify this by saying, at the PGA Tour level, with the heights they’re cutting at, cultural practices that are done, thatch/irrigation control, rotating mowing directions, changing bed knives and keeping reels sharp...grain has next to no effect now. It did play a huge role in the past but nowadays gravity, wind, or fans have way more effect than grain.

Let’s look closer at ANGC, from a casual observer (meaning I never worked there, but have been to a dozen or so masters?) who knows about turf (worked as a superintedent, hosted PGA Invitationals and one major volunteered at other majors and Ryder Cups) and can play some golf (plus 3.4 index), mowing height is published at 3/8 which is .375 inches. That is really tight on it’s own. For our PGA event we were at .400, I believe we were also at .400 for our US Open but that was early 2000s it’s gotta be lower than that since. Now just because you set a mower at .375 does that mean it cuts at .375? Nope it doesn’t. There’s a multitude of factors, thatch buildup, cultural practices, roller configuration, frequency of cut (not days between mowings, actually the frequency of the reel clipping the leaf blade; relating speed of the mower to the rotation of the reel), bed knife configuration etc. so to keep it simple if you’re using a standard non grooved roller you’ll be right at .375. If you use a grooved or wily roller (or whatever you want to call them) you’ll probably be closer to .360. Now if you change bedknives and go with a “tournament bed knife” (little bit thinner gives a way better cut, but doesn’t last as long) you’re going to go even tighter than .360 to maybe let’s say .345/.350. Now let’s assume there’s some cultural practices (it’s ANGC they’re doing things the right way and setting the standard and innovating along the way), if you’re top dressing lightly and matching the right particle size to what you need, the base layer beneath the canopy will actually stand the leaf blades up making them more upright. A more upright leaf blade means you can take more off the top...so now we’re possibly at .330. For grain to have any effect on the golf ball there has to be ample tissue to create the friction to get in the way of the golf ball. And to be quite frank you would be hard pressed to pinch a blade of grass off the fairways or tees or greens at tour events. Not all all events mind you but definitely the big ones.
 

I could literally go on and on but there’s no point to it because I’ll never convince you @Pepperturbo that grain doesn’t really have an effect inside the irrigation lines on closely mown turf greens, collars, surrounds, tees, fairways. In the step cut it may, in the rough definitely especially if fans have trampled it down. 
 

For those more interested in reading about grain, John Foy, Director of the USGA’s Southeast Region, published fantastic little article (it’s maybe a page?) 

 

http://puttingzone.com/Info/Bag/1.%20GrainontheBrain.pdf

 

i hope that link works, now obviously he’s detailing putting greens but that’s also true for other closely mown areas at Tour level courses. It just is, and it really chaps my a** whenever I hear announcers talk about grain because you’re telling me and the fans watching at home flat out we’re not doing our job. I confronted several one year about it and they just didn’t know the science, not that they care or should, but they had no idea green doesn’t follow the sun or grow towards water or valleys, but the one thing they all said as a reply, “we have to say something” So rant over. 

[BNGL]

On 11/3/2020 at 7:49 PM, Shilgy said:

Augusta mows back towards the tee. And says it only makes a 3-4 yard difference. It is more to affect the lie of the shot hit from the fairway. Their fairways are cut at 3/8” . That short a cut the ball wouldn’t be affected much by grain.

The only spot it really can make a difference in my experience is 10. We all know it goes down the hill and to the left, but for whatever reason that’s usually the wettest fairway so you can get some iffy lies in the center of the fairways even because the ball will dig sometimes instead of bounding downhill. But I agree with you short cut less friction less of an affect. 

[Pepperturbo]

@BNGL Appreciate you not going on and on; you're right you won't change my mind, no matter how many links you provide. 

 

We're talking about two different subjects.  I am not talking about rough or greens, but certain fairways. 

 

I was on the BOD of 2 private high end equity clubs where we leaders were responsible for working with the superintendent on course setup, before Qualifying events took place.  We didn't do that on all holes just certain holes were measuring took place and those holes were setup to be unusually long. 

 

We saw with our own eyes and experienced the result of changing grain direction on half the fairway and all the fairway and shorter turf.  Grain still exists on greens cut unusually short as it grows throughout the day.  PS, using what Augusta allegedly does is NOT a strong argument.  Plus, many tour guys have difference irons to use on Augusta. 

 

You have a good day.

Edited November 6, 2020 by Pepperturbo

[Shilgy]

2 hours ago, BNGL said:

The only spot it really can make a difference in my experience is 10. We all know it goes down the hill and to the left, but for whatever reason that’s usually the wettest fairway so you can get some iffy lies in the center of the fairways even because the ball will dig sometimes instead of bounding downhill. But I agree with you short cut less friction less of an affect. 

I understand and agree with you. Cutting the grass short enough while mowing back towards the tee would be like having linoleum fairways and expecting sweeping towards the tee to slow the ball. The shorter the cut the less the mowing direction would matter.

 

But some will disagree somehow.

[djmohab2]

On 11/3/2020 at 1:54 PM, Pepperturbo said:

Haney's quote "If you can't hit the long ball, the game has passed you by!"  It's every bit baloney.

 

Distance does NOT determine potential.  It determines what category you may be in, nor does being a long driver directly translate to WINNER.  Only hitting 275 carry does not mean loser either.  Potential (is not a guarantee) and comes from the mind, and game from body.  Mind controls the body.  There are many long ball hitters on various tours but many of them can't find the fairway with iron, or from the junk using an iron; that's the lack of mind at work.  A persons potential has everything to do with his or her mind.  That's my 2cents. 

This is just another bullxxxx trope to make everyone think they can compete. Does height matter in basketball? Does speed matter in football? Do looks matter in dating? Yes, yes, yes. Without those things, you need to have the rest of your game absolutely on point to compete with those that have the physical gifts. A person's potential has everything to do with his or her mind? That's why we see so many 5'6" guys in the NBA, right? All other things being equal, you are unequivocally better off with having more distance. Even if you lay up off the tee, you're not hitting driver, and then you're hitting less club from the same distance as your opponent. Those are huge advantages. You get someone like Bryson who could put together putting like Tiger, and people like Luke Donald wouldn't even bother to show up.

[djmohab2]

On 11/3/2020 at 2:58 AM, RichieHunt said:

Guys like Ryan Brehm and Cameron Champ hit it a mile, but launch it so low that it can create issues for them on some courses and some designs, Bryson figured out how to gain speed with a healthy launch and spin rate.

Why would low launch cause problems?

[pinhigh27]

36 minutes ago, djmohab2 said:

Why would low launch cause problems?

Trying to carry hazard or cut a dogleg. Carry distance is really all that matters. Champ will fly it like 290 and roll out 60 yards on tour fairways. Bryson is flying it way further. Way better for taking hazards out of play. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by pinhigh27