KBS tour vs KBS Hybrid shaft?

[mizunotpz]

I have used KBS tour regular for a long time now and really like them. Now Im wondering about the KBS hybrid shaft, should I go with regular in the hybrid shaft as well? My swing speed with 6 iron is around 83-86. With a very smooth transition.

[mizunotpz]

I have read on the KBS website that the graphite hybrid shaft is supposed to be made in the KBS tour shaft style but Im just wondering how weight would affect the stiffness. Im looking at the 70gram version.

[Valtiel]

27 minutes ago, mizunotpz said:

I have read on the KBS website that the graphite hybrid shaft is supposed to be made in the KBS tour shaft style but Im just wondering how weight would affect the stiffness. Im looking at the 70gram version.

Generally speaking, most composite shafts these days are maintaining flex regardless of weight. In the past lighter used to always mean softer, but not as much these days. 

The KBS Tour Regular steel shaft is 110g, so 70g feels awfully light for a hybrid unless you know for sure that is what you want. If it were me, I would be starting with 90g for a smoother weight transition from your longest iron. Going too light with hybrid shafts is one of the reasons many people have control/hooking issues with them, and most people seem to be better off moving shaft weight closer to their irons to maintain a more consistent feel. Just my .2c!

[mizunotpz]

2 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

Generally speaking, most composite shafts these days are maintaining flex regardless of weight. In the past lighter used to always mean softer, but not as much these days. 

The KBS Tour Regular steel shaft is 110g, so 70g feels awfully light for a hybrid unless you know for sure that is what you want. If it were me, I would be starting with 90g for a smoother weight transition from your longest iron. Going too light with hybrid shafts is one of the reasons many people have control/hooking issues with them, and most people seem to be better off moving shaft weight closer to their irons to maintain a more consistent feel. Just my .2c!

Yes I agree, its big transition. Thanks for replying!! I have KBS via Ping and I think its 105 but thats still a lot from 70 gram. So if I was to go KBS graphite hybrid I would want to go stiffer in the shaft, or go higher in weight?

[Valtiel]

Just now, mizunotpz said:

Yes I agree, its big transition. Thanks for replying!! I have KBS via Ping and I think its 105 but thats still a lot from 70 gram. So if I was to go KBS graphite hybrid I would want to go stiffer in the shaft, or go higher in weight?

You're welcome! My thought is stay in the regular flex and go up to the 90g version. You mentioned already being very comfortable with the regular flex in the irons, and the Hybrid graphite shaft is designed to feel and perform similarly with the same type of bend profile, so I would treat it just like a lighter iron shaft. 90g would be a nice transition from 105g and is right in what many (including myself) consider to be a nice "sweet spot" for stepping down weight from long irons to hybrids/driving irons e.g. 10-15g. Once you start dropping more than 20g+ of static weight from the club then you run the risk of that club starting to feel more disconnected from the rest of the set in terms of feel, and adding the necessary head weight back to restore that feel can for some start to feel a bit unbalanced. The only time you'll really see that kind dramatic shaft weight shift is when going from a long iron straight to a fairway wood, but in that case you are not only dealing with a much different club design, but also a much longer shaft. Unless you plan on playing your hybrid significantly longer in length or want it as a pure distance club then it is best to stick within that sweet spot I mentioned to start with. 👍

[mizunotpz]

4 minutes ago, Valtiel said:

You're welcome! My thought is stay in the regular flex and go up to the 90g version. You mentioned already being very comfortable with the regular flex in the irons, and the Hybrid graphite shaft is designed to feel and perform similarly with the same type of bend profile, so I would treat it just like a lighter iron shaft. 90g would be a nice transition from 105g and is right in what many (including myself) consider to be a nice "sweet spot" for stepping down weight from long irons to hybrids/driving irons e.g. 10-15g. Once you start dropping more than 20g+ of static weight from the club then you run the risk of that club starting to feel more disconnected from the rest of the set in terms of feel, and adding the necessary head weight back to restore that feel can for some start to feel a bit unbalanced. The only time you'll really see that kind dramatic shaft weight shift is when going from a long iron straight to a fairway wood, but in that case you are not only dealing with a much different club design, but also a much longer shaft. Unless you plan on playing your hybrid significantly longer in length or want it as a pure distance club then it is best to stick within that sweet spot I mentioned to start with. 👍

Ok, this is really useful information. I have this Ping G410 crossover 23 degree in a Alta CB shaft, I think its around 70 gram and its really easy to hit and the shaft doesnt feel whippy really but I feel I should get more distance out of it. And Im thinking that more weight in the shaft should add more speed as well as long as you can handle it. And I have no trouble getting the 10 yard difference from a 7 iron, to a 6 or to a 5 iron if you know what I mean in my regular KBS. But still a lighter shaft than 105 feels really great to help me launch the longer irons, but moving like 35 gram lighter would be too big of a step.

[Valtiel]

4 minutes ago, mizunotpz said:

Ok, this is really useful information. I have this Ping G410 crossover 23 degree in a Alta CB shaft, I think its around 70 gram and its really easy to hit and the shaft doesnt feel whippy really but I feel I should get more distance out of it. And Im thinking that more weight in the shaft should add more speed as well as long as you can handle it. And I have no trouble getting the 10 yard difference from a 7 iron, to a 6 or to a 5 iron if you know what I mean in my regular KBS. But still a lighter shaft than 105 feels really great to help me launch the longer irons, but moving like 35 gram lighter would be too big of a step.

The G410 Crossover is also a pretty unforgiving club, you really need to strike those well to send them. They are LONG when you do, but mishits are punishing. 

In terms of weight, everyone has a range that works for their swing and their feel. Lighter usually means faster, but there is a tipping point for most where you often stop gaining speed and start losing consistency. Whatever allows you to hit middle of the face the most will always be best for distance, even if you lose a little speed. Experimentation there is the way to go, and you can simulate added shaft weight by running strips of lead tape down the back the shaft a few inches below the grip. This will add static weight without upsetting balance point and is much cheaper than swapping shafts around. The approach I like is to slowly add weight in this manner while also swapping back and forth between your next adjacent iron to keep your overall sense of feel with the set. Add a strip of tape, hit a few, switch to the set iron, hit a few, then switch back to the Crossover and add another strip of tape. Rinse and repeat until you either reach a point that you like or it starts feeling too heavy. Then you can weigh the tape, add that to the 70g, and now you have the weight range of shaft you should look at to replace the stock one with. 👍

[mizunotpz]

Yes, thats a good idea. I have a roll of leadtape somewhere. Im looking at a Wilson Staff utility instead of the Ping, or maybe the new Cobra. I think Im loosing spin with the crossover and I think the feel is too clicky. Maybe you have some recommendation on what heads to look at? Thanks a lot, I appreciate that you share your knowledge!!

[Valtiel]

1 hour ago, mizunotpz said:

Yes, thats a good idea. I have a roll of leadtape somewhere. Im looking at a Wilson Staff utility instead of the Ping, or maybe the new Cobra. I think Im loosing spin with the crossover and I think the feel is too clicky. Maybe you have some recommendation on what heads to look at? Thanks a lot, I appreciate that you share your knowledge!!

My pleasure! And I agree with you that the PING Crossover is definitely a harder, clickier feel. 

Depending on what your preferences are and how much you're willing to customize, I don't think you can beat the Srixon U-series driving irons for feel, ESPECIALLY if you have them hotmelted. Any of these hollow driving irons, including the Crossover, can be massively improved in the feel department by adding hotmelt to the head. It really softens and deadens the feel to be much more iron-like. Even without hotmelt though, the Srixon to me has always been the standout in the feel department. Otherwise I would just make sure that any DI that you're looking at has a hotmelt port (Titleist U-series and T-MB, Srixon U-series, Callaway X-forged (under the badge), Taylormade TP UDI (under the badge). Guys like @J13 on here can do hotmelting as can @Continental Golf and @willpeoples. 

[liveagua]

As a general rule, the heavier that graphite shafts get, the stiffer to flex they play. In graphite, stiffness is more logarithmic, so as you get heavier, you can play lighter and it will most likely play stiffer to flex than similar weight steel. 

 

If I was recommending a hybrid shaft, sight unseen, I would choose Fujilkura Ventus Blue 8 stiff. It fits more people than GD AD Di did and it performs better as well. If you want to stay in KBS, go with the 85 stiff.