Avoiding Snap Hooks

[ThreeBoxers]

Big miss with the driver has generally been to the right, a lot of my practice work was on not getting as steep and keeping the left wrist flat throughout the down swing to keep from striking with an open face. Sometimes I can get a nasty snap hook out of it. Was hoping I could get some input on this video to work on straightening out the driver and getting it more in line with the other clubs. Thanks.

[Valtiel]

Lots of great stuff there and you're obviously in good physical shape, so you should be able to straighten out the few things that you're doing that are causing your issues. 

The first thing to note is the general flattening of the shoulders going back, which is setting up the first problem:



You vs. Rory. The issue here if that with your right shoulder getting really low as shown above, your hands and arms are going to want to mimic that flat plane on the way down which is going to get the club in a really flat, laid off position, which we can see here:



Your hands and arms are now mimicking that flat shoulder plane causing you to come in with the club way laid off and above the initial plane you established going back. Without a big compensation here, you would be swinging along that red line about a foot over the top of the ball. These images may not look that different at first glance, but when you view the videos (i'll link Rory's below) you can see that the first move Rory makes with the hands and arms is straight down, whereas yours is straight OUT. We can also see you are early extending a bit in that your upper body is out racing your lower body. Rory's hips are already beyond the ball and clearing open whereas yours are only just reaching the ball at this point and are more shut. This combination of laid off and shut will require a pretty big compensation to get your hands in and the shaft back on plane, which you actually manage to do.... 



...but in doing so you're creating a massive amount of rotation and clubhead arcing through the ball, which means the club face has an extremely narrow window in which it is traveling along your target line. And since your hips and shoulders are trying to catch up to your arms, you get bunched up at impact and are forced to stand up and lose your angles. All of this caused the big, flat pull that you hit in the video, and would cause a big slice if you don't shut the face fast enough, all giving you very little opportunity to start the ball on line. 

Starting then from the first image and working down, to fix this you'll want to:

1) Get your right shoulder higher at the top of the backswing, more similar to were Rory's is. This will get you in a better position to allow that hands to fall straight down in transition instead of going out towards the ball. 
2) Initiate the downswing with your lower body, not your arms, and let your hands fall straight down. At 0:19-0:20 in your video, your hips should be starting to rotate and fire, but instead it looks like they are waiting for the arms to start the downswing, after which they kind of work down closer together which creates very little shoulder/hip separation which robs you of power and throws you out over the top of the plane you should be on. 
3) With these adjustments made, you will no longer need the compensations you are currently doing and the ball will start on target much more consistently with less curvature. 

And for #2, I would focus on letting the arms hang and wait for the hips to start firing, not trying to fire your hips faster, as relaxing and letting things happen in the correct order is usually better than trying to speed things up to force them into that order. Thankfully it looks like you are more than athletic enough to make these adjustments. I struggle with the same things and i'm in terrible shape compared to you, and i'm still improving, hah. Good luck!
 

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Valtiel

[ThreeBoxers]

@Valtiel, thanks a bunch for the response, I appreciate the insight!  All of this makes a lot of sense, especially the excessive club head rotation.  I can feel when I get a little lazy with my left wrist and let it extend a little so I end up with a weak swipey slice.  Other times I feel like I did a good job about it, feel that I hit it on the screws, look up and it's going low and hard left.  I started feeling I needed to hit this goldilocks zone to get the ball to go straight.  

 

As far as getting the right shoulder higher, do you have any tips or drills for ingraining this?  Or any setup change to better suit this?  Because I don't feel like I do anything other than just rotate my shoulders throughout my takeaway.

[Valtiel]

20 hours ago, ThreeBoxers said:

@Valtiel, thanks a bunch for the response, I appreciate the insight!  All of this makes a lot of sense, especially the excessive club head rotation.  I can feel when I get a little lazy with my left wrist and let it extend a little so I end up with a weak swipey slice.  Other times I feel like I did a good job about it, feel that I hit it on the screws, look up and it's going low and hard left.  I started feeling I needed to hit this goldilocks zone to get the ball to go straight.  

 

As far as getting the right shoulder higher, do you have any tips or drills for ingraining this?  Or any setup change to better suit this?  Because I don't feel like I do anything other than just rotate my shoulders throughout my takeaway.

You're welcome! Yeah that low, hard left miss is definitely a product of that compensation you are making to get the heavily laid off clubhead into the hitting zone, which creates that tiny goldilocks zone to get the ball going straight. 

Regarding your setup and shoulders, there are a couple options. You have very little spine angle at address (standing fairly straight) and you actually lose a little bit of that already small angle going back, which is leading to the flat shoulders. Since you're getting a little bunched up at impact with your hands very close to the body (not necessarily a bad thing), my gut suggestion would be to inch a little further from the ball and introduce a little more forward bend at the waist. You'll have to maintain that new spine angle throughout the backswing though, as that will lead to your shoulders being in a better position, which then sets everything else up to be in a better position. Feeling like your left shoulder is turning down under your chin more than across can help give you the feeling of maintaining those angles. You also look like your slapping the ball out of the heel a bit in your video, so inching away from the ball a little can hopefully move that closer to the center of the face as well.  

This is all to setup a better transition though, and if your hands are still coming out in front instead of dropping down into the "slot" then you'll still have problems, so I would focus on that area that most. 👍

[ThreeBoxers]

Haven’t practiced a ton, but I have tried to focus a bit on getting my hands moving down and not out at transition. Got some video this past weekend and wanted to follow up on my previous post. A bit of a different issue, but it’s building off feedback @Valtiel had given. My miss I’m is getting steep in the downswing. Also I think it looks like I start rotating my hips a little early, haven’t quite reached the top of the swing yet.

first video (2228) is straight.

second video (2227) is a straight fade.

will need to do a second post due to file sizes.

IMG_2228.MOV

IMG_2227.MOV

Edited January 27, 2021 by ThreeBoxers
Added a sentence

[ThreeBoxers]

Third driver video is a pull fade.

And a 7 iron for swing reference.

IMG_2226.MOV

IMG_2224.MOV

Edited January 27, 2021 by ThreeBoxers
formatting

[Scottbox]

So much better. Posture looks much improved. Think "ping man" or look at Hogan. Butt over the heels. Shoulder turn is still too flat though. I have the same issue. A nice drill without a club is to feel like you are pulling a bow string with your trail hand. Feel the right shoulder going up, and keep some left bend. You'll feel very centered, like you're going up more. Forget the idea of "keeping your spine angle" and all that crap. That idea will make you turn too flat and make you shift off the ball too much. Who needs that?

 

When you do a proper backswing pivot, you won't need to lift your arms so much to get hight, then drop the club so far behind you to manufacture depth-- you'll get both for free. You'll also get some hip depth. If anything, you might want to work on keeping your left arm connected to the pec and feel a bit flatter (until it naturally wants to go up). Again, you'll have a steeper shoulder turn, ergo you'll get both height and depth. 

 

Because you have to work so hard to get the club back in front of you, you stall your rotation and lose a bit of hip depth at impact. It's not a bad matchup at all, and you look like you hit it a mile, but it's timing-dependent. Working on the backswing pivot will help you feel like the club has more room to come down and shallow on its own as you rotate. If you rotated 100% properly at this point without stalling to let the club catch up, you'd shove your ball 40 yards right. Time it wrong and it's hook city.

 

Also, these are my Boxers:

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Scottbox

[ThreeBoxers]

20 hours ago, Scottbox said:

So much better. Posture looks much improved. Think "ping man" or look at Hogan. Butt over the heels. Shoulder turn is still too flat though. I have the same issue. A nice drill without a club is to feel like you are pulling a bow string with your trail hand. Feel the right shoulder going up, and keep some left bend. You'll feel very centered, like you're going up more. Forget the idea of "keeping your spine angle" and all that crap. That idea will make you turn too flat and make you shift off the ball too much. Who needs that?

 

When you do a proper backswing pivot, you won't need to lift your arms so much to get hight, then drop the club so far behind you to manufacture depth-- you'll get both for free. You'll also get some hip depth. If anything, you might want to work on keeping your left arm connected to the pec and feel a bit flatter (until it naturally wants to go up). Again, you'll have a steeper shoulder turn, ergo you'll get both height and depth. 

 

Because you have to work so hard to get the club back in front of you, you stall your rotation and lose a bit of hip depth at impact. It's not a bad matchup at all, and you look like you hit it a mile, but it's timing-dependent. Working on the backswing pivot will help you feel like the club has more room to come down and shallow on its own as you rotate. If you rotated 100% properly at this point without stalling to let the club catch up, you'd shove your ball 40 yards right. Time it wrong and it's hook city.

 

Also, these are my Boxers:

 

Thank you for the reply and it looks like you have some great companions! Luckily I used to shoot a compound bow so I get the feeling you’re talking about. Took a few swings inside today and kind of felt like my arms were a little more in line with my shoulders and hands felt a bit deeper. I’ll have to get in front of a mirror though, we all know feel isn’t always real. 

[Scottbox]

Yep. That is fer shure.

[putterboy75]

ThreeBoxers - I have a similar issue - My driver tee ball is mediocre at best but I hit my irons consistently with a soft draw.

 

Didn't read all of the comments above so apologies if someone has already said this, but be 100% sure your setup is spot - on. If it's not, it'll just decrease your chances of getting the club to where you want it at impact.

 

I got a great tip early last summer which was super simple and kept me from hitting a hook off the tee. Be sure your right foot is square, and if you really want to guard against the hook, point your right toes towards the target. You virtually cannot hit a hook with the right foot positioned this way.

 

I received this tip from a PGA Master Professional. It was crucial for me all summer to avoid that hook. Interesting to me the other instructors I had seen up to this point who all tried to find something in the swing motion / path to correct, when it was almost solely in the setup....

 

Hope this helps, it's one of the simplest tips I've ever received but one of the best.

[cardoustie]

Watch Mike Malaska tipping the shaft vids

 

flat shoulder turn, coming from way inside, lots of face rotation ... so hard to time up

 

you need a downswing delivery that is simpler

 

i used to have that snipe miss ... hated it