Chicago to Phoenix Trip Report (and Back to Chicago)

[Argonne69]

For the second winter in a row I'll be snowbirding in Phoenix. I'll be playing at least four rounds along the way in different regions, so I figured I'd post the trip report in the general travel forum. The plan is to play Gateway National, Cherokee Hills, Ross Rogers (Wild Horse), and Black Mesa north of Santa Fe. I'll post course reviews and photos as I hit the courses. The forecast looks promising with rising temperatures through the week. 

 

Edited March 8, 2021 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

I started the trip with a drive to St Louis, and a midday round at Gateway National Golf Links. With 20 to 25 mph winds it was a challenge, but still quite enjoyable. The course wasn't quite what I expected. I was thinking something along the lines of Harborside, with few/no trees and mounding galore. Instead the course was generally flat, and had quite a few trees along/behind a number of holes. There was a lot more water on the course than I was expecting, too. Overall it was a decent layout. The par 5s played long. Good mix of long and short par 4s. Very generous fairways for the most part, which was a good thing given the wind today. Definitely could use more fairway bunkers. The five par 3s were fairly boring though. Only one was visually interesting. With the arch off in the distance it was a nice getaway from the city. There are a few industrial buildings along the perimeter, and the raceway to the south, but otherwise you're basically away from civilization. 

 

Conditions were spotty, but playable. Several teeboxs were GUR. The 160 yd par 3 16th had a temporary teebox set up at 100 yds. Fairways had a ton of unfilled divots. There were few players out today, but my cart still managed to have no sand/seed mix. The rough was patchy. Greens were still recovering from aeration a few weeks ago. Bumpy, and again too many unrepaired ball marks. Sheesh. Green speeds were 9 at best to start the round, but were probably rolling 10 later in the round as the wind dried things out. Bunkers were a bit wet, but quite playable. Pace was fine. I went off as a single, and things were moving quite nicely until the final four holes. Can't complain about 3:40. 

 

I played much better than I expected given the wind. With generous fairways one could get away with a few less than perfect drives. I managed 12 greens, but no birdies. With the wind I was simply trying to hit, and stay on the greens. Didn't give myself many birdie chances. Six bogies, but I was happy to limit the damage. 

 

Overall it was a fine course, fall conditions aside. Not quite what I imagined, but certainly worthy of a visit. 

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

 

 

Full photo set: Gateway National Golf Links

Edited November 1, 2020 by Argonne69

[Apindara]

6 minutes ago, Argonne69 said:

Is that the arch in the background?

[Argonne69]

5 minutes ago, Apindara said:

Is that the arch in the background?

 

Yes, the arch is off in the distance. It's a lot closer on the western boundary of the course. The course is located in Madison, IL, just across the Mississippi River. 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Argonne69

[stecho67]

Lucky you!  Wish I could do the same!

 

Play well and hit em long!

[Phireside]

Looking forward to reading along

[Chanceman]

Hope Route 66 lives up to the hype. Its one of my bucket list trips.

[nlinneman20]

17 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

I started the trip with a drive to St Louis, and a midday round at Gateway National Golf Links. With 20 to 25 mph winds it was a challenge, but still quite enjoyable. The course wasn't quite what I expected. I was thinking something along the lines of Harborside, with few/no trees and mounding galore. Instead the course was generally flat, and had quite a few trees along/behind a number of holes. There was a lot more water on the course than I was expecting, too. Overall it was a decent layout. The par 5s played long. Good mix of long and short par 4s. Very generous fairways for the most part, which was a good thing given the wind today. Definitely could use more fairway bunkers. The five par 3s were fairly boring though. Only one was visually interesting. With the arch off in the distance it was a nice getaway from the city. There are a few industrial buildings along the perimeter, and the raceway to the south, but otherwise you're basically away from civilization. 

 

Conditions were spotty, but playable. Several teeboxs were GUR. The 160 yd par 3 16th had a temporary teebox set up at 100 yds. Fairways had a ton of unfilled divots. There were few players out today, but my cart still managed to have no sand/seed mix. The rough was patchy. Greens were still recovering from aeration a few weeks ago. Bumpy, and again too many unrepaired ball marks. Sheesh. Green speeds were 9 at best to start the round, but were probably rolling 10 later in the round as the wind dried things out. Bunkers were a bit wet, but quite playable. Pace was fine. I went off as a single, and things were moving quite nicely until the final four holes. Can't complain about 3:40. 

 

I played much better than I expected given the wind. With generous fairways one could get away with a few less than perfect drives. I managed 12 greens, but no birdies. With the wind I was simply trying to hit, and stay on the greens. Didn't give myself many birdie chances. Six bogies, but I was happy to limit the damage. 

 

Overall it was a fine course, fall conditions aside. Not quite what I imagined, but certainly worthy of a visit. 

 

 

I play Gateway a few times a year, your review is spot on.  The conditions will improve hopefully, you played after about a week straight of rain, maybe even 2 weeks straight lol so I can see how it could be wet.

 

They have a good management company in my opinion, however with Covid, they've had a TON of play.  I've looked a couple weekends and tee times were fully booked till like 2pm and this was when I was looking on like a Monday/Tuesday of that week.

 

I love that course tho, maybe because i shot my best round ever a 79 there or maybe cuz of the wide fariways you mention lol.

 

Anyways glad you enjoyed, next time you come down here check out Annbriar, its about 20 or 30 mins south of Gateway in Waterloo, IL

[Schley]

course rating 1-10 please.

[mci711]

Gateway is, I believe, the only bent grass public course in the area. Usually it is in very good condition, but with covid play and the amount of rain it had recently it took a beating. Someone mentioned the management company, they are actually the biggest problem with gateway and every course they manage. Every course Walters manages turns into lowering the price and packing the tee sheet. Have a 4 some that wants to get out? Jam them between 2 other tee times and get their money! Gateway 3-4 years ago was always in prime shape and the best course - by far- in the area (followed by annbriar in my opinion). Conditioning issues are scary because if they are packing the sheet Walters won't bat an eye. Gateway has being their prime course and the face of the management group going for them, it may force them to do something.  

[CDM]

@Argonne69   Always like your road trip reports.  You show courses I have never heard of and I add them to a list for states that I should hit up if in the area  😃 

[Argonne69]

Beautiful day, and a beautiful course. Cherokee Hills is in Catoosa, just outside of Tulsa. It's ranked #5 on GolfWeek's Best in State (Oklahoma). As the name suggests, it sits on a wonderful piece of rolling terrain adjacent to the Hard Rock casino. The noise from the traffic on I-44 was a minor annoyance. As many know I'm a sucker for elevated tees and greens,  and the course delivers. Plenty of variety in the holes. Being able to work the ball both ways off the tee is a big plus. The 555 yd par 5 was a monster playing into the wind. The shorter 6th can be reached in two with a good drive, but the elevated green guarded by a large bunker makes it a tough go. 'Good risk/reward. The short par 4s were tricky. 'Only complaint would be the par 3s, which were fairly ho hum. A bit of water on the course, but it didn't really come into play. The greens were fantastic. Plenty of undulation, and a lot of slope that wasn't apparent to the eye. My feet were telling me the holes are cut into the side of a hill sloping towards the casino. With the speed at 10 to 11, they were challenging to say the least. There were a number of fairway bunkers that came into play, but as usual I thought there could be more. Greenside bunkering was fine.

 

Conditions were very good. The grass is just starting to go dormant. 'Still very playable. The rough was cut to a good length, so it wasn't as penal as it could be. Bunkers were a little wet and compacted, and needed grooming. Leaves were managed, but along the very edge they were troublesome. Note to self: stay away from the thick stuff. The greens were in very nice shape. The pace was acceptable, but it could have been better. I went off as a single, played through two groups in the 2nd and 3rd holes, and had the course to myself until the 11th teebox where I ran into another single. We paired up behind a couple, who was trailing a fivesome. I actually save a few fivesomes on the course. I don't really mind as long as they let the faster groups through, but of course they didn't. We wound up trailing them the rest of the round.

 

Decent round with one birdie and six bogies. The greens were giving me fits with the speed, and the pin positions. They must have left the flags in the "Sunday" positions. Seemed like many were right on the edge of a ridge. Oh well, it was too nice a day to complain. It was 26 degrees this morning when I left St Louis, and 70 degrees when I walked off the course. Sweet.

 

This is definitely a must play if you're in Oklahoma. I paid a senior rate of $30 with cart. Last year at this time I had my wallet stolen at Karsten Creek to the tune of $430. Is Karsten better? Yeah. $400 better? F no. Off to Amarillo tomorrow. I'd give it a rating of 7 out of 10. Gateway gets a 6. 

 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

 

 

[Argonne69]

Full photo set: Cherokee Hills

[Argonne69]

2 hours ago, mci711 said:

Gateway is, I believe, the only bent grass public course in the area. Usually it is in very good condition, but with covid play and the amount of rain it had recently it took a beating. Someone mentioned the management company, they are actually the biggest problem with gateway and every course they manage. Every course Walters manages turns into lowering the price and packing the tee sheet. Have a 4 some that wants to get out? Jam them between 2 other tee times and get their money! Gateway 3-4 years ago was always in prime shape and the best course - by far- in the area (followed by annbriar in my opinion). Conditioning issues are scary because if they are packing the sheet Walters won't bat an eye. Gateway has being their prime course and the face of the management group going for them, it may force them to do something.  

 

I was told that there was a scramble on Saturday, That could explain why there were so many divots in the fairways.

[Argonne69]

7 hours ago, nlinneman20 said:

 

I play Gateway a few times a year, your review is spot on.  The conditions will improve hopefully, you played after about a week straight of rain, maybe even 2 weeks straight lol so I can see how it could be wet.

 

They have a good management company in my opinion, however with Covid, they've had a TON of play.  I've looked a couple weekends and tee times were fully booked till like 2pm and this was when I was looking on like a Monday/Tuesday of that week.

 

I love that course tho, maybe because i shot my best round ever a 79 there or maybe cuz of the wide fariways you mention lol.

 

Anyways glad you enjoyed, next time you come down here check out Annbriar, its about 20 or 30 mins south of Gateway in Waterloo, IL

 

Yeah, Annbriar was my second choice. I look forward to playing it on my next trip through the area.

[Argonne69]

Gotta give a big thumbs up to the Turner Turnpike (I-44) between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. Expensive at $5, but the first 10 or so miles is three lanes of freshly poured concrete that's nearly as straight as an arrow. I love many of the old U.S. Highways, but when one is done golfing for the day, and still has 80 miles to the next hotel, it's nice to have a personal autobahn. Lol. 

 

[tw422]

Can't believe it's been a year since you last did this trip.  Looking forward to reading your reviews.  Seems like yesterday I was reading your reviews of your time in AZ and then heading back prior to the pandemic breaking out.  Stay well and play well.

Edited November 3, 2020 by tw422

[hammergolf]

On 11/1/2020 at 4:15 PM, Argonne69 said:

I started the trip with a drive to St Louis, and a midday round at Gateway National Golf Links. With 20 to 25 mph winds it was a challenge, but still quite enjoyable. The course wasn't quite what I expected. I was thinking something along the lines of Harborside, with few/no trees and mounding galore. Instead the course was generally flat, and had quite a few trees along/behind a number of holes. There was a lot more water on the course than I was expecting, too. Overall it was a decent layout. The par 5s played long. Good mix of long and short par 4s. Very generous fairways for the most part, which was a good thing given the wind today. Definitely could use more fairway bunkers. The five par 3s were fairly boring though. Only one was visually interesting. With the arch off in the distance it was a nice getaway from the city. There are a few industrial buildings along the perimeter, and the raceway to the south, but otherwise you're basically away from civilization. 

 

Conditions were spotty, but playable. Several teeboxs were GUR. The 160 yd par 3 16th had a temporary teebox set up at 100 yds. Fairways had a ton of unfilled divots. There were few players out today, but my cart still managed to have no sand/seed mix. The rough was patchy. Greens were still recovering from aeration a few weeks ago. Bumpy, and again too many unrepaired ball marks. Sheesh. Green speeds were 9 at best to start the round, but were probably rolling 10 later in the round as the wind dried things out. Bunkers were a bit wet, but quite playable. Pace was fine. I went off as a single, and things were moving quite nicely until the final four holes. Can't complain about 3:40. 

 

I played much better than I expected given the wind. With generous fairways one could get away with a few less than perfect drives. I managed 12 greens, but no birdies. With the wind I was simply trying to hit, and stay on the greens. Didn't give myself many birdie chances. Six bogies, but I was happy to limit the damage. 

 

Overall it was a fine course, fall conditions aside. Not quite what I imagined, but certainly worthy of a visit. 

 

I personally think Gateway is VERY overrated. I much prefer Annbriar, Tapawingo, Missouri Bluffs, or even Spencer T. Olin. Enjoy the trip and your winter in AZ!

[Argonne69]

Another beautiful day. Ross Rogers GC in Amarillo today. After an uneventful early morning drive from Oklahoma City, I teed off on the Wildhorse course to start the day. The complex sits on a nice piece of rolling terrain. Not quite as hilly as Cherokee Hills, but enough elevation change to keep it interesting. The course had plenty of trees, but because the complex is so massive it didn't feel like a parkland layout. Very good mix of holes. The 591 yd par 5 12th was a (tamed) beast playing downwind thankfully. The green complexes were fun. Not super undulating, but not flat by any means. Only complaint was the almost total lack of fairway bunkers. While the fairways are not super generous off the tee, it could use a bit more challenge. I assume the wind serves as the main defense. 

 

Conditions were decent. A few bare patches, and some Bermuda going dormant, but very playable. There must have been a big wind storm recently, as there were downed branches under practically every tree. Crews were in the process of cleaning up. Bunkers were wet, but playable. Greens looked very good, but were only rolling 9 or so to start the round. By the end of the day the wind had dried things out, and it was 10 to possibly 11. Pace was excellent. I played through a sixsome (yes, that's right) on the 1st hole, a single walking on the 4th hole, and then had clear sailing until playing through a group on the 16th. 

 

Decent round ballstriking with 9 fairways and 12 greens. No birdies and three bogies. With the stiff breeze, two clubs at times, I didn't give myself many good looks at birdies. The slow greens didn't help. 

 

I was pleasantly surprised by the course. It's not going to win any awards, but for $38 it's a bargain. In fact I believe they have a banner on the clubhouse stating that they were ranked the #1 value in Texas golf. There's not much to choose from in Amarillo in the way of public golf, so you can't really go wrong here. I'd rate it a 5.5.

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

Ross Rogers Wildhorse. Full photos later today. 

 

 

Full photo set: Wildhorse

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

Lol. I'm a glutton for punishment. I finished my round at Wildhorse just after noon, and wasn't going to sit around all afternoon. I wasn't planning on playing the Mustang course, but what the heck. Probably one of the goofiest rounds I've played in years. I figured the course would be mostly empty midday. Ugh. Wrong. I reached the 2nd teebox and saw a twosome in the fairway waiting on a fivesome on the green. Long story short I drove around the course twice. There were four fivesomes on the course, resulting in numerous gaps. I played the open holes first time around, taking pictures along the way, and did a second go around to pick up the missing holes. Not a terrible way to knock an hour+ off the round. 

 

The Mustang course is the tougher of the two. There are fewer trees, but a handful of really tough holes. A number of them were playing back into the wind. Only one short par 4. The par 3s were better than the Wildhorse bunch. Green complexes were about the same, maybe a tad tougher. There seemed to be a number of holes that had blind tee shots. Looking at the photos, you don't see a lot of the course from the tee. 

 

Conditions were a little better. With fewer trees there were fewer leaves and downed branches. 

 

Ballstriking was about the same, but I was able to stick three wedges close for three birdied to go along with five bogies. 

 

Highlight of the day was two downwind drives of 299 and 306 yds. Of course the next holes were upwind, and I got a solid 225. Lol. 

 

Fun day. I paid $38 for the first round, and $15 for the replay. Not going to complain. Well, except for the five/sixsomes. Sheesh. I'd also rate it a 5.5. 

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

Ross Rogers Mustang. Full pics later. 

 

 

Full photo set: Mustang

Edited November 3, 2020 by Argonne69

[Argonne69]

Before I get to today's course review, I was giving some thought to how I rate courses. Most of you know that I play a ton of new courses. The vast majority of courses I play will be one and dones. When others are traveling, and looking for recommendations, they're usually looking for a fun course that's great to look at. Strategy? Clubhouse? Important yes, but not at the same level of importance as it would be looking for a regular course to play. 

 

The things I look for include: 

 

# of memorable/wow holes
Knee knocking tee shots
Knee knocking approach shots
# of photos taken
Green complexes
Need to work the ball 
Bias for a specific shot shape 
Overall conditioning (Turf/Sand/Drainage/Paths) 
Staff friendliness/helpfulness
Practice/Warmup Facilities 
Par 3s
Par 5s
Short 4s
Long 4s
Bunkering
Elevation changes
Surrounding views (Nature or Homes)
Post-round (Drinks, Patio)
Value

 

At some point I hope to create a rating sheet w/ weightings, as all factors are not equally important. 

 

[Argonne69]

Another fantastic day, and a simply stunning course. I haven't been this blown away since Dismal River in Nebraska, and Wolf Creek in Mesquite. Black Mesa delivers on all levels. The rocky terrain is wonderful, giving plenty of elevated tees and greens. Very good mix of holes. Par 3s are superb. Same with the par 5s. I'd say the fairways are generous, but a number of tee shots are intimidating, starting with the first hole where one has to aim at the flag planted on a rocky mound, and trust that there's a fairway out there. On the flipside, there's not much in the way of risk/reward. On only one hole did I consider hitting less than driver. 

 

Green complexes were excellent. Various shapes, multiple tiers, and some wicked contours. However, they were very fair. On a number of holes one had to be in the right spot to avoid a difficult two putt. 

 

Conditions were near perfect. Other than a few spots that had a collection of leaves, I can't find fault with anything. OK, the gravel cart paths were rough in spots, but tee to green was near perfection. Greens were rolling at least 10, and possibly 11. 

 

Another solid round. Driver was on, as was my irons and hybrids. One birdie and five bogies. The green complexes definitely require a few plays to learn where to target.

 

I can't say enough about the course. It's ranked #4 on Golfweek's Best in State for New Mexico, but I think it blows #1 Pa Ko away. The $60 fee is less than a third of Pa Ko's. Highly recommended. I rate it an 8.5.

 

 

[Argonne69]

Opening tee shot

 

 

 

Jaw dropping par 3 4th

 

 

 

Par 3 15th 

 

 

 

Full photo set: Black Mesa

 

[Bonneville85308]

What is your course-picking strategy going to be in Phoenix this winter? I think you hit most of the affordable options last winter. Are you going to expand your range further out, pick a handful of your favorites from last winter and play them frequently, try some of the higher-end options, etc.?

[Argonne69]

16 hours ago, Bonneville85308 said:

What is your course-picking strategy going to be in Phoenix this winter? I think you hit most of the affordable options last winter. Are you going to expand your range further out, pick a handful of your favorites from last winter and play them frequently, try some of the higher-end options, etc.?

 

I think it's going to be a mix of all of the above. I'll pick up a city card, and play Cave Creek and GCU on a regular basis. I'll travel to Aguila on occasion, but with a 45 minute drive from Desert Ridge it won't be a regular stop. 

 

There are a handful of lower tier courses that I haven't played, so I'll try to play at least one each week until I've played them all. 

 

There are a number of mid priced courses that I liked, so they'll get a return visit. I'll also hit a couple of the best courses this year, but I'll certainly be looking for discounted rates. Definitely want to hit Southern Dunes again, as well as Wickenburg Ranch. Might also play Saguaro for the 2nd time. 

 

Should be a fun winter. I'm likely to play Monday through Friday through the end of the year, but dial it back to four days a week after the new year. 

 

[Chanceman]

See if you can get out to Apache Stronghold one day. From past reports its a great course design but in poor condition.