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What I Do Not Like About The Hogan Swing


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In my first year of playing golf, a golfer I was paired up at the local muni recommended FIve Lessons.  I bought a copy, read it, gave it a half-hearted attempt, sucked at it since I was a novice anyway, but then pursued another path when I realized that Jack Nicklaus won twice as many majors so I bought Golf My Way.  I was so intrigued by that book I misplaced my Hogan book and I suppose it is in a landfill right now.  I was in college at the time and when I left I reckon I left it in my apartment with my roommates.

 

Looking back, what I did not like was Hogan's tucked right elbow.  Just as Jack was criticized for his "flying right elbow," I cannot stand the look of the tucked right elbow.  Ben's swing was so flat.  I much prefer the flying right elbow--coupled with the full body turn or pivot, of course.  Today's golf instruction favors the upright swing.  That is, golfers are not taught to tuck in that right elbow on the backswing.  It is quite apparent when we see a golfer with the tucked elbow, most notably Christo from MSE.  I simply don't like the look of it.  I don't think many PGA Tour players are tucking in the right elbow anymore--can you name any?  The last one I remember is Justin Leonard, who in his early years tucked in both elbows, and his follow-through, especially with his tucked left elbow, was disgusting and looking like Leatherface wielding his chainsaw in the final scene of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

 

I simply don't like the look of it, but if the swing results in eighteen of eighteen greens per round like Hogan in his prime, Tour players would all use that swing and we would all be trying to swing that way today.

 

It has been a long time since I last read the book, but for those of you who know Hogan's fundamentals by heart, I ask: is it possible to employ the fundamentals of Hogan's swing while swinging upright?

Edited by EmperorPenguin
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I would say no. I do know the tucked elbow on the down swing is gold for me. I do believe you can't copy ANYBODYS swing fully and must adapt to your own abilities using what works for you. Found this and it is interesting, never new it existed. 

https://classic.esquire.com/article/1943/3/1/learning-good-golf-by-sense

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2 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

In my first year of playing golf, a golfer I was paired up at the local muni recommended FIve Lessons.  I bought a copy, read it, gave it a half-hearted attempt, sucked at it since I was a novice anyway, but then pursued another path when I realized that Jack Nicklaus won twice as many majors so I bought Golf My Way.  I was so intrigued by that book I misplaced my Hogan book and I suppose it is in a landfill right now.  I was in college at the time and when I left I reckon I left it in my apartment with my roommates.

 

Looking back, what I did not like was Hogan's tucked right elbow.  Just as Jack was criticized for his "flying right elbow," I cannot stand the look of the tucked right elbow.  Ben's swing was so flat.  I much prefer the flying right elbow--coupled with the full body turn or pivot, of course.  Today's golf instruction favors the upright swing.  That is, golfers are not taught to tuck in that right elbow on the backswing.  It is quite apparent when we see a golfer with the tucked elbow, most notably Christo from MSE.  I simply don't like the look of it.  I don't think many PGA Tour players are tucking in the right elbow anymore--can you name any?  The last one I remember is Justin Leonard, who in his early years tucked in both elbows, and his follow-through, especially with his tucked left elbow, was disgusting and looking like Leatherface wielding his chainsaw in the final scene of The Texas Chainsaw Massacre.

 

I simply don't like the look of it, but if the swing results in eighteen of eighteen greens per round like Hogan in his prime, Tour players would all use that swing and we would all be trying to swing that way today.

 

It has been a long time since I last read the book, but for those of you who know Hogan's fundamentals by heart, I ask: is it possible to employ the fundamentals of Hogan's swing while swinging upright?

 

Hogan and Nicklaus were very similar: 

 

 

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All good ball strikers have similar dynamics. There are no new inventive ways to move the body in the golf swing...or plane the shaft for that matter....but hinging/unhinging sequences on backswing and follow through, and the general plane heights can vary quite a bit. Tinker all you want with those two things but don't get the dynamics wrong unless you want to suck.

 

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There are of course differences, notably the address position and grip.  Hogan flattened his swing as he aged, but the biggest differences are a result of body type. 
 

5’11 220 vs 5’7 135. 
Jack had shorter thicker limbs, was less flexible, had shorter arms relative to height.  They were both strong and could pound it, both could wear the sweet spot out.  
 

I’ll take take Jack, he was a better putter. 

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Eh?

 

 

 

I immediately remembered this regarding the elbow.  It is not that he really talks much of it but the action is similar.  

 

I try to get the feel of pulling my right elbow to my right hip bone and swinging in to out.  However, even with a weak grip I still can hook the ball from that position.  I am not sure how Hogan eliminated the hook with that move.

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17 hours ago, smashdn said:

Eh?

 

 

 

I immediately remembered this regarding the elbow.  It is not that he really talks much of it but the action is similar.  

 

I try to get the feel of pulling my right elbow to my right hip bone and swinging in to out.  However, even with a weak grip I still can hook the ball from that position.  I am not sure how Hogan eliminated the hook with that move.

One way (can’t definitively say it was Hogan’s) is to retain enough of the DS clockwise winding of the right arm to counterbalance the CCW rotation of the pivot and left arm and keep the right hand from crossing over and providing too much face closure through impact. Takes some experimentation to calibrate a stock face/path relationship but a better player should be able to dial it in pretty quickly. The use of right hand grip pressures is the key.

 

 

440F0B48-19E3-414A-B96A-E238EEA7105D.jpeg

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3 hours ago, moehogan said:

One way (can’t definitively say it was Hogan’s) is to retain enough of the DS clockwise winding of the right arm to counterbalance the CCW rotation of the pivot and left arm and keep the right hand from crossing over and providing too much face closure through impact. Takes some experimentation to calibrate a stock face/path relationship but a better player should be able to dial it in pretty quickly. The use of right hand grip pressures is the key.

 

 

 

 

Moe, I could not agree with you more! This is such a counter-intuitive move that most golfers do the exact opposite. Continued supination of the trail forearm in the downswing through impact is my critical key to good ball striking.

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The answer to better golf is hit it better, farther, and make more putts.

 

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@EmperorPenguin i get it, we're not all the same.

 

I took up the game at 40, self-taught using mainly 2-books; Hogans Five lessons and Faldos, "A Swing for Life" plus Seves "Natural Swing" and one by Nicklaus, which was lost a long time ago.  Anyway, the most used has always been Hogans 5-lessons and still sets on my desk as a reference. 

 

About a year later starting I took a beginner set of lessons to insure mechanics were on target, and reached 7-8 index inside of five years, a 2 a few yeas later  I am now 70 and that Hogan & Faldo's swing has held up mighty well, as I am trending back to a 3 and still playing big kid tees, smacking the ball pretty good. 

 

Liking how something looks IMO is not the best way to learn; but as I said, we're all different.  I am all about performance and what gets the job done.   Have a good weekend.

Edited by Pepperturbo
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/6/2020 at 12:10 PM, Pepperturbo said:

@EmperorPenguin i get it, we're not all the same.

 

I took up the game at 40, self-taught using mainly 2-books; Hogans Five lessons and Faldos, "A Swing for Life" plus Seves "Natural Swing" and one by Nicklaus, which was lost a long time ago.  Anyway, the most used has always been Hogans 5-lessons and still sets on my desk as a reference. 

 

About a year later starting I took a beginner set of lessons to insure mechanics were on target, and reached 7-8 index inside of five years, a 2 a few yeas later  I am now 70 and that Hogan & Faldo's swing has held up mighty well, as I am trending back to a 3 and still playing big kid tees, smacking the ball pretty good. 

 

Liking how something looks IMO is not the best way to learn; but as I said, we're all different.  I am all about performance and what gets the job done.   Have a good weekend.

Agreed, we are all different..I use handicap as my goal post for improvement. Where my ball ends up is the driver for me. I then tinker with the swing to change the ball flight or more distance. Damn, its a hard game

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8 hours ago, uitar9 said:

Agreed, we are all different..I use handicap as my goal post for improvement. Where my ball ends up is the driver for me. I then tinker with the swing to change the ball flight or more distance. Damn, its a hard game

 

I do not see my index or course handicap having much to do with my swing mechanics.  My Index is a data point in to say, a Indexed table of people.  Like city is to a company name.

 

Index is an indicator of where my skill is in relationship to others I may play with or against.  Index has nothing to do grading my swing using a 1-10 scale of bad to beautiful mechanics, just that it's a connected data point.

 

 

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Just my way of keeping score. I have decided that if my handicap is lowering, I am scoring better.

 

As my handicap has reduced the past two years, I am generally speaking, shooting a lower range of scores.

 

Swing mechanics are just not how I see improvement. Mine is ball flight on the course (not the range), smarter on course strategy and that handicap #.

 

On 11/20/2020 at 3:49 PM, Pepperturbo said:

 

I do not see my index or course handicap having much to do with my swing mechanics.  My Index is a data point in to say, a Indexed table of people.  Like city is to a company name.

 

Index is an indicator of where my skill is in relationship to others I may play with or against.  Index has nothing to do grading my swing using a 1-10 scale of bad to beautiful mechanics, just that it's a connected data point.

 

 

 

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