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On 11/7/2020 at 9:06 PM, wildcatden said:

"For example, in Wolkodoff’s study, golfers scored lower while walking with a caddie or with their clubs on a push cart than they did when using a motorized cart. And golfers carrying a golf bag posted the highest average score."

 

https://onpar.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/08/01/a-little-scientific-research-for-all-those-19th-hole-debates/

 

 


 

I have this conversation all the time when I’m playing with someone new. I virtually always walk (push) and I find myself playing much more consistently than when I’m riding in a cart. I think getting in the cart I lose focus, but walking keeps me focused more. 

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On 12/1/2020 at 4:19 PM, Abh159 said:

 

I like to joke that whoever was the first person to hand out "participation trophies" will one day go down in history as the one responsible for the downfall of society. Although with each passing year I worry that joke is becoming more of a reality... 😬

We moved to Northern VA where we live now.  My oldest son (21yo now) 5 at the time was signed up for t-ball.  We went to practice and there was a whole lecture on sportsmanship and no keeping score, etc...  At the end of the season I was thinking what's next soccer?  Or straight to ballet.

 

I grew up in the 80s and the t-ball fields were behind us when I was playing majors.  I remember some of them games being intense.  Different time and town???

Edited by TripleBogeysrbetter
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On 12/3/2020 at 9:05 AM, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

We moved to Northern VA where we live now.  My oldest son (21yo) was signed up for t-ball.  We went to practice and there was a whole lecture on sportsmanship and no keeping score, etc...  At the end of the season I was thinking what's next soccer?  Or straight to ballet.

 

I grew up in the 80s and the t-ball fields were behind us when I was playing majors.  I remember some of them games being intense.  Different time and town???

He can vote and drink and they won't let him keep score?

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On 12/2/2020 at 7:01 AM, ConcernedBoutCOVID said:

I initially posted this topic out of concern for health problems associated with carrying a heavy bag hundreds of times a year for kids, and less to shave a couple strokes per round. 

 

I think the medical research and advice on this overwhelmingly in agreement?

 

To get your thread back on track - push carts are recommended and the recommendation is based on real evidence.

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14 minutes ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

I am an advocate of push carts, but where is your evidence?

Plenty of stuff out there about developing spines in "normal" kids, not to mention kids that might have undiagnosed real and potential back issues with carrying weight properly and improperly. AJGA relied on a study that wasn't necessarily all that much of a study IMO, but that's not all it considered.  Way before that the cautions and actual medical evidence about kids just carrying backpacks was out there and has been contributed to over the years.  Our oldest and we were cautioned about a potential issue relative to her back when she was in junior high/going into high school and over time it turned out to be a non issue. 

Edited by Hawkeye77
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I dont think a push cart helps or hurts a score. I am a carrier but my kid likes push carts, so i will embrace it. At least with a push cart you can carry lots of things with no issues. 

We did not get her a super elite one but a very nice one. 

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I guess I’m just a skeptical person by nature, but I don’t much stock in scores being lower by pushing as opposed to carrying.  The only reason I use a pushcart is so I can carry a drink and a few extra things. When I carry, I lighten the bag as much as possible. I like being able to go anywhere with the bag (and I realize there really aren’t that many places that the cart can’t go either, just feels different to me).  Bottom line, for me anyway, I’m no more tired carrying than I am pushing.  Scores aren’t any different.  
 

But my best scores have all come when riding. I can carry anything I need, have a place to sit while waiting, and am always fresh at the end of the round. 

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On 11/8/2020 at 5:36 AM, bdecena said:

Once a kid (or adult) uses a push cart, he/she is not going to “want” to carry again. There is no advantage to carrying. I thought they were stupid for many years but finally broke down and got one because everyone at my club, other than the head pro’s son, uses a push cart. My kids probably wouldn’t play if they had to carry their bags. 

Own a cart, tried if for about 50 rounds years ago and did not like it. I found it a hassle going the long way around greens, bunkers and tee boxes etc. 

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A story

 

As a kid I loved golf, and wanted to play it constantly. I had a full set of clubs at age 10 and was playing once a month or so. Bag always over my left shoulder, always loaded down with golf balls I'd found. When high school came along I'd play twice a week, bag over the same left shoulder (just wasn't comfortable on my right, never thought I'd need to balance it out) Bag still loaded down, we once took 60 balls out of it. But I was being smart saving money on balls with all I'd found. 

But every day after playing I'd go home and feel a warm soreness in the left part of my upper back. "Just a sign of a good day's work on the course" I'd tell myself.

 

I'm now in my mid twenties and that warm soreness has turned into severe pain if I try to carry more than a couple holes. If I carry, I know when I get home I'll ache the rest of the day.

 

My recommendation is to have the lightest bag you possibly can, on a push cart.

 

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7 hours ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

A story

 

As a kid I loved golf, and wanted to play it constantly. I had a full set of clubs at age 10 and was playing once a month or so. Bag always over my left shoulder, always loaded down with golf balls I'd found. When high school came along I'd play twice a week, bag over the same left shoulder (just wasn't comfortable on my right, never thought I'd need to balance it out) Bag still loaded down, we once took 60 balls out of it. But I was being smart saving money on balls with all I'd found. 

But every day after playing I'd go home and feel a warm soreness in the left part of my upper back. "Just a sign of a good day's work on the course" I'd tell myself.

 

I'm now in my mid twenties and that warm soreness has turned into severe pain if I try to carry more than a couple holes. If I carry, I know when I get home I'll ache the rest of the day.

 

My recommendation is to have the lightest bag you possibly can, on a push cart.

 

The research is there wether people believe it or not. Plus kid's bones are not fully form. Everything from overweight backpacks for school to to a lot of golfing. Be as macho as u want your back baby not mine

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9 hours ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

A story

 

As a kid I loved golf, and wanted to play it constantly. I had a full set of clubs at age 10 and was playing once a month or so. Bag always over my left shoulder, always loaded down with golf balls I'd found. When high school came along I'd play twice a week, bag over the same left shoulder (just wasn't comfortable on my right, never thought I'd need to balance it out) Bag still loaded down, we once took 60 balls out of it. But I was being smart saving money on balls with all I'd found. 

But every day after playing I'd go home and feel a warm soreness in the left part of my upper back. "Just a sign of a good day's work on the course" I'd tell myself.

 

I'm now in my mid twenties and that warm soreness has turned into severe pain if I try to carry more than a couple holes. If I carry, I know when I get home I'll ache the rest of the day.

 

My recommendation is to have the lightest bag you possibly can, on a push cart.

 

I am sorry to hear that, it is a possibility. I am a avid bag carrier since i was young with one strap to 2 straps in my 20's and now in my late 40's still carrying. I am lucky i haven't hurt myself, did pull a muscle last year that required a push cart for me for 2 weeks all good now. I have watched my daughter as a 14 year old carrying, she does fine but wants a cart and i am all for it. She has learned how to move it around the green and course to not be in wrong places. She has certain course she will not use a push cart, she will only carry but that is her choice. To me even if she doesn't carry all the time, a little less stress on shoulders and backs is great. 

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10 hours ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

A story

 

As a kid I loved golf, and wanted to play it constantly. I had a full set of clubs at age 10 and was playing once a month or so. Bag always over my left shoulder, always loaded down with golf balls I'd found. When high school came along I'd play twice a week, bag over the same left shoulder (just wasn't comfortable on my right, never thought I'd need to balance it out) Bag still loaded down, we once took 60 balls out of it. But I was being smart saving money on balls with all I'd found. 

But every day after playing I'd go home and feel a warm soreness in the left part of my upper back. "Just a sign of a good day's work on the course" I'd tell myself.

 

I'm now in my mid twenties and that warm soreness has turned into severe pain if I try to carry more than a couple holes. If I carry, I know when I get home I'll ache the rest of the day.

 

My recommendation is to have the lightest bag you possibly can, on a push cart.

 

 

I imagine most of your damage was caused by a mix of weight (I don't even know how you fit 60+ balls in a bag!) and only carrying on one shoulder. With the technology improvement in bags today (lighter weight, more durable, double strapped, heavily padded, etc.) I would think any damage would be significantly less than it used to be.

 

Of course a push cart will always be less physically demanding, but I still have a tough time getting on board with the thought that carrying a golf bag alone is enough to cause long term health problems. In my opinion it's far less damaging when compared to other things (overloaded backpacks for one example).

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14 hours ago, 2bGood said:

Own a cart, tried if for about 50 rounds years ago and did not like it. I found it a hassle going the long way around greens, bunkers and tee boxes etc. 

If you can carry thru tee boxes then you can push a cart through them. Those extra few steps sometimes needed to get around a green aren't exactly taxing and last I checked, most don't trudge straight thru bunkers when carrying.

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1 hour ago, chippa13 said:

If you can carry thru tee boxes then you can push a cart through them. Those extra few steps sometimes needed to get around a green aren't exactly taxing and last I checked, most don't trudge straight thru bunkers when carrying.

Not in my case at my home course. Our course has strict rules around where push carts can go:

No tee boxes 

Not near greens or fringe

Not between bunkers and greens

 

The going around bunkers to drop you bag off behind the green is the one that takes you most out of the way. It can get awkward if you have a shot on one side of the green, but you have to take your cart around the far side of the green to leave it in the correct area. Not huge deal, but would take about 1min, and I would rather just head directly to where I am hitting my shot from. 

 

The no carts between the bunkers and green is very good rule for us as the design on most holes would force carts into a narrow areas between the green and bunkers and really damage the area for playing shots as we deal with wet conditions. 

 

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4 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

I imagine most of your damage was caused by a mix of weight (I don't even know how you fit 60+ balls in a bag!) and only carrying on one shoulder. With the technology improvement in bags today (lighter weight, more durable, double strapped, heavily padded, etc.) I would think any damage would be significantly less than it used to be.

 

Of course a push cart will always be less physically demanding, but I still have a tough time getting on board with the thought that carrying a golf bag alone is enough to cause long term health problems. In my opinion it's far less damaging when compared to other things (overloaded backpacks for one example).

 

Indeed. I imagine my swing contributed as well. It's an anecdote of 1, and it's not debilitating by any means. (I hope it doesn't become so later) But it does ache, and it is annoying to know that something I really enjoy doing contributes to it. I think the lesson is more "don't let junior do something silly that he's convinced himself is just 'what one does.'"

 

I use a Wilson Staff quiver bag with the backpack straps and have experimented with carrying it for a round or two. It has made a huge difference and I can get through a round with it ok. But my club has free pull carts for use, so I pull 99 times out of 100 nowadays.

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4 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

I imagine most of your damage was caused by a mix of weight (I don't even know how you fit 60+ balls in a bag!) and only carrying on one shoulder. With the technology improvement in bags today (lighter weight, more durable, double strapped, heavily padded, etc.) I would think any damage would be significantly less than it used to be.

 

Of course a push cart will always be less physically demanding, but I still have a tough time getting on board with the thought that carrying a golf bag alone is enough to cause long term health problems. In my opinion it's far less damaging when compared to other things (overloaded backpacks for one example).

 

It's a real issue, what's your point?  There's always something worse you can do.  

 

Telling someone else your uninformed opinion on his injury experience seems counterproductive.

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19 minutes ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

 

Indeed. I imagine my swing contributed as well. It's an anecdote of 1, and it's not debilitating by any means. (I hope it doesn't become so later) But it does ache, and it is annoying to know that something I really enjoy doing contributes to it. I think the lesson is more "don't let junior do something silly that he's convinced himself is just 'what one does.'"

 

I feel your pain. My swing has always caused me problems with tendonitis in my left elbow. It was a lot worse when I played/practiced all the time and has gotten better over the years, but when it flairs up it's rough. I can't feel half my fingers, and a pain shoots all the way down my arm anytime I extend my elbow. I can forget about golf for several weeks when it happens.

 

12 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

 

It's a real issue, what's your point?  There's always something worse you can do.  

 

Telling someone else your uninformed opinion on his injury experience seems counterproductive.

 

 

Well seeing as how none of us are trained orthopedists who specialize in the spine I would say that all of our opinions are uninformed. This is probably why we are offering up our opinions on an internet forum and not to a patients face while wearing a white coat.

 

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2 hours ago, Abh159 said:

 

I feel your pain. My swing has always caused me problems with tendonitis in my left elbow. It was a lot worse when I played/practiced all the time and has gotten better over the years, but when it flairs up it's rough. I can't feel half my fingers, and a pain shoots all the way down my arm anytime I extend my elbow. I can forget about golf for several weeks when it happens.

 

 

Well seeing as how none of us are trained orthopedists who specialize in the spine I would say that all of our opinions are uninformed. This is probably why we are offering up our opinions on an internet forum and not to a patients face while wearing a white coat.

 

Definitely not a doctor here, but not too hard to have an informed opinion if you take the time to do some reading, see what's out there.

Edited by Hawkeye77
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  • 1 year later...

I am no longer a kid.  In my 60’s, weigh 265 and walk every round.  (120 plus rounds a year).   Most of my life I carried, but I have had a push cart the last 4 years.  I am in Florida and I see the push cart as a big advantage about 4 months of every year.  Down here June - Sept can be very hot and humid.  The fact that I can use an umbrella for shade with a push cart is a game changer.  That shade makes walking 18 when it is 95 degrees with 90% humidity on an August afternoon possible for an obese, old man. 

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  • 1 month later...

Depends on the course you play, and the circumstances.

 

I caddied at a Symetra Tour (LPGA developmental) in 2017. About half the women had regular caddies, the rest either got local caddies (like me) or handled their own bags. Some used pull carts.

 

My player asked me if I wanted to use the pull cart, and I declined. Reasons:

  • She was a very fast walker, and the pull cart moved too slow.
  • The course had spots of rough terrain not good for wheels, and creeks. I couldn't pull the cart through a shallow creek that I could hop across on foot. Having to seek out established cart paths would have meant lots of wasted steps. And since I now have white hair, there was no was I wanted to be seen as "lagging behind" my player.
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1 hour ago, JimmyC59 said:

I'm 62. Switched to a pushcart two years ago, always carried before. The best thing about pushcarts is, I can jog with it between shots. Can't do that carrying.

My local track has a ton of elevation changes including “Cardiac Hill” where two guys have had heart attacks. It’s much easier to carry than push a cart up those beasts. On flat courses though, I do agree that pushing a cart can be easier. 

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There's definitely something more important that I should be doing.
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