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Driver Spin Question


Iagolf515
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I am in a simulator league this winter and the ball we use is a nondescript (no brand) ball with markings on it to help the simulator track spin i assume. I would estimate the ball quality is similar to a decent range ball. 

 

The distances i get on the simulator are very much in line with what i would expect for my game, however I'm not sure how reliable the spin data is. 

 

Wedges are only spinning 2k-4k RPMs

Irons between 4.5k-7.5k

Wood and hybrid 3.5-4.5k

Driver: 3.5-4k

 

The iron spin #s seem reasonable and from my research it sounds like it is not uncommon for range balls to actually spin much less with wedges than other clubs so I'm guessing this is just a matter of the ball (ball still stops quickly on the simulator with wedges despite the extremely low spin). My question has 2 parts:

 

How reliable do you think the driver spin #s are using essentially a range ball? They are higher than what i would have thought.

 

If they are materially accurate, how much could I benefit distance wise from reducing my driver spin? 

 

For reference I am gaming a Cobra F8 driver 9.5* Hzrdus red stiff shaft. I was not fitted for this setup, I am relatively new to golf (1.5 years) and bought the driver with regular shaft then got the stiff shaft a few months later on the advice of a friend. My swing speed is typically 105-110 mph with total distances between 250-270 yards average under neutral conditions. My miss with driver is usually a pull, hook or pull/hook but i have made major improvements over the last couple months and have been fairly straight but still working on being able to play a fade as needed. 

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8 hours ago, Iagolf515 said:

I am in a simulator league this winter and the ball we use is a nondescript (no brand) ball with markings on it to help the simulator track spin i assume. I would estimate the ball quality is similar to a decent range ball. 

 

The distances i get on the simulator are very much in line with what i would expect for my game, however I'm not sure how reliable the spin data is. 

 

Wedges are only spinning 2k-4k RPMs

Irons between 4.5k-7.5k

Wood and hybrid 3.5-4.5k

Driver: 3.5-4k

 

The iron spin #s seem reasonable and from my research it sounds like it is not uncommon for range balls to actually spin much less with wedges than other clubs so I'm guessing this is just a matter of the ball (ball still stops quickly on the simulator with wedges despite the extremely low spin). My question has 2 parts:

 

How reliable do you think the driver spin #s are using essentially a range ball? They are higher than what i would have thought.

 

If they are materially accurate, how much could I benefit distance wise from reducing my driver spin? 

 

For reference I am gaming a Cobra F8 driver 9.5* Hzrdus red stiff shaft. I was not fitted for this setup, I am relatively new to golf (1.5 years) and bought the driver with regular shaft then got the stiff shaft a few months later on the advice of a friend. My swing speed is typically 105-110 mph with total distances between 250-270 yards average under neutral conditions. My miss with driver is usually a pull, hook or pull/hook but i have made major improvements over the last couple months and have been fairly straight but still working on being able to play a fade as needed. 

 

The biggest potential problem with spin in those situations is that spin generated when hitting directly off of a mat (not teed up) can be very different from the spin generated off of grass.  Sometimes as much as 2k lower off of a mat.   There are a lot of factors both with respect to the swing and the mat characteristics and it's not really understood all that well so it's hard to really predict.  You really need actual recorded indoor and outdoor data comparisons.

 

As far as the actual accuracy of the LM goes, that will depend entirely on the specific make and model of launch monitor.  They each have their own limitations and general accuracy specs.

 

As far as driver spin goes, the ball can have an effect but it's generally not as much as it is with irons.  The two biggest factors in driver spin are:

 

1) face impact location.   Gear effect for woods and drivers (and hybrids) can have a huge influence on spin.  The lower on the face the impact, the higher the spin will be.   So the diagnosis of any spin issues on a driver needs to start with evaluating that impact position.  Either use foot powder spray or face impact tape.  Do NOT rely on feel to tell you the quality of the face impact.   Also keep in mind that if the tee height for the indoor sim is not the same as what you might prefer outside, this can certainly effect the impact location on the face.

 

2)  Dynamic loft delivered into impact.  AoA will have some influence but people tend to get too obsessive about it.  The much bigger influence is the dynamic loft (amount of shaft lean or where the hands are relative to the ball at impact).   it's not unusual for ams trying to 'hit up' on the ball to end up getting a bit 'flippy' and adding too much dynamic loft which completely defeats the purpose of what they were trying to accomplish hitting up on the ball.

 

Combine the two - high dynamic loft from trying to hit up and combine it with catching it low on the face (also from trying to hit up on the ball) and you've got yourself a spin monster of a shot.

 

 

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You don't mention what simulator you are on, but my understanding is that spin rates are often the least reliable of the stats provided by monitors that don't use Doppler like Trackman does.  Between mats, range balls, and the simulator, I think I'd go very easy on drawing any conclusions about spin rates off of any club. 

 

I do think that you could do some comparisons between clubs and/or balls, as to which one spins more or less, but that would be about all.

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59 minutes ago, bluedot said:

You don't mention what simulator you are on, but my understanding is that spin rates are often the least reliable of the stats provided by monitors that don't use Doppler like Trackman does.  Between mats, range balls, and the simulator, I think I'd go very easy on drawing any conclusions about spin rates off of any club. 

 

I do think that you could do some comparisons between clubs and/or balls, as to which one spins more or less, but that would be about all.

 

Yes, knowing the particular model is important to get an accurate answer but ..

 

Most optical systems can be very accurate and reliable with total spin.  Skytrack, Foresight GC2, GCQuad, GCHawk, even the newer Uneekor QED,etc.. are some examples.   And the fact that the OP stated the ball needed to have markings on it is a good indication that it's likely an optical unit and is actively trying to directly measure spin.  My guess is Uneekor or one of the higher end FullSwing units - since foresight doesn't need to use any marks on the ball.

 

It's the lower cost IR or dopler launch monitors that have the most problems with spin since they don't actually try to measure it.  Instead they try to calculate it based on other information - which requires the application of certain assumptions about impact that are not very reliably.

 

Edited by Stuart_G
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I’ve been using a skytrak for several months and have noticed the spin is low when hitting off a mat. Usually when I’m playing on the course in average conditions I can get an 8/9 iron to stop right by the ball mark. On the skytrak my 8 iron only spins 5-6k and rolls out several yards. Backing what people are saying above that spin numbers off the may seem lower than what you’d see in real life.  I would look at consistency of distances. If you hit your 8 iron 140ish on the course and it goes 145 on the monitor and it’s consistent just keep that in mind when you’re playing. 

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10 hours ago, Iagolf515 said:

I am in a simulator league this winter and the ball we use is a nondescript (no brand) ball with markings on it to help the simulator track spin i assume. I would estimate the ball quality is similar to a decent range ball. 

 

The distances i get on the simulator are very much in line with what i would expect for my game, however I'm not sure how reliable the spin data is. 

 

Wedges are only spinning 2k-4k RPMs

Irons between 4.5k-7.5k

Wood and hybrid 3.5-4.5k

Driver: 3.5-4k

 

The iron spin #s seem reasonable and from my research it sounds like it is not uncommon for range balls to actually spin much less with wedges than other clubs so I'm guessing this is just a matter of the ball (ball still stops quickly on the simulator with wedges despite the extremely low spin). My question has 2 parts:

 

How reliable do you think the driver spin #s are using essentially a range ball? They are higher than what i would have thought.

 

If they are materially accurate, how much could I benefit distance wise from reducing my driver spin? 

 

For reference I am gaming a Cobra F8 driver 9.5* Hzrdus red stiff shaft. I was not fitted for this setup, I am relatively new to golf (1.5 years) and bought the driver with regular shaft then got the stiff shaft a few months later on the advice of a friend. My swing speed is typically 105-110 mph with total distances between 250-270 yards average under neutral conditions. My miss with driver is usually a pull, hook or pull/hook but i have made major improvements over the last couple months and have been fairly straight but still working on being able to play a fade as needed. 

 

Honestly I've never paid any attention to spin on irons. My evaluation is based on how often I find the sweet spot along with the dispersion and consistency of distance on solid strikes.

 

As for driver spin, been there (3500-4000), done that. I agree with Stuart in that I don't see a whole lot of difference in driver spin on the launch monitors with different golf balls. And a couple of hundred rpm won't matter a whole lot anyway. But 3500-4K spin rate is most likely a swing issue.

 

Hzrdus RED is a mid launch, mid spin shaft. Their Black and Yellow and newer Green are all low launch and low spin. You might get some spin rate relief from those but it's almost certainly not going to lower you to anywhere near low 2000s.

 

MY problem was allowing my entire upper body to "slide" towards the target causing a trailing clubhead and a negative Angle of Attack instead of keeping my head back and allowing my lower body weight to shift to the front side.

 

Once I did that, spin came tumbling down to where I'm now in the low 2,000 range. And center strikes and consistent direction came almost automatically. I DO occasionally get that low left snapper and inevitably, when it shows up, is because my lower body doesn't shift and my arms outrace any lower body action. Faces closes into impact and there it goes - snapper left.

 

Anyway, check out the 2 Flightscope pics below. Took your 105mph SS to approx 155mph ball speed. Note the difference between 3500 and 2000 spin rate. Almost 10 yards in additional carry and 20 yards in overall distance.  https://flightscope.com/products/trajectory-optimizer/

 

Good luck. 

 

1684772615_WRXFS1553500.png.4f1cfebfb1163137edba0a2484f4d752.png

 

1343821084_WRXFS1052000.png.3ca201fd99b4293d968c362acefe4b03.png

 

 

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