If 3 minutes isn't enough time to find your ball on the PGA Tour, with tons of people spotting, how can they expect the rest of us to find it in that time?

[Augster]

On 11/14/2020 at 9:09 PM, Sawgrass said:

I see that I’m pretty much alone here, but I liked 5 minutes better than 3.  A lost ball is a pretty deadly penalty, and given how rarely the extra two minutes would be used, it’s a reasonable sacrifice for others to make on behalf of some poor soul.  
 

I actually have timed many searches, both my own and as a ref, and I’ve seen plenty of balls found in minutes 4 and 5.  In fact, it might take three minutes for others in the group to realize there’s a problem, and sometimes it’s only the last two minutes in which several people are looking.

 

 

I’m with you Sawgrass. I time every search. My own and others. Before it went to 3 minutes, you usually had everyone looking for your ball the last 3 minutes. Now, you usually only get everyone looking for about a minute. The others play their shots, then realize I’m still looking, and come over to help. 
 

I’ve found more balls in minutes 4 and 5 than I do in minute 3 now. 
 

I would like to see this rolled back. It would help me immensely. On my course, playing advantageously, there are 6 landing zones that you can’t see, which are severely sloped, so the ball can bounce nearly anywhere. Only a terrible shot actually holds the fairway, so on those 6 holes, everyone has to search the rough after not being able to see where it kicked to. The three minute search hasn’t done me any favors. 
 

Luckily we play E-5 in casual rounds. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Augster

[Mr. Bean]

11 hours ago, Sawgrass said:

To put a fine point on it, the clock starts based on when you start searching, not based on where you’re standing.

 

Just to be curious, have you ever not started your clock when the player arrives in the area where his ball is likely to be?

[James the Hogan Fan]

2 hours ago, Augster said:

I’m with you Sawgrass. I time every search. My own and others. Before it went to 3 minutes, you usually had everyone looking for your ball the last 3 minutes. Now, you usually only get everyone looking for about a minute. The others play their shots, then realize I’m still looking, and come over to help. 
 

I’ve found more balls in minutes 4 and 5 than I do in minute 3 now. 
 

I would like to see this rolled back. It would help me immensely. On my course, playing advantageously, there are 6 landing zones that you can’t see, which are severely sloped, so the ball can bounce nearly anywhere. Only a terrible shot actually holds the fairway, so on those 6 holes, everyone has to search the rough after not being able to see where it kicked to. The. Minute search hasn’t done me any favors. 
 

Luckily we play E-5 in casual rounds. 

 

I have noticed when looking for a ball under 3 minutes, you probably wander around for a minute on your own. Then you spend a minute getting others to come help you. Then it takes them a minute to get there. And you're out of luck. If you are looking in a given spot, 3 minutes lets you look in that spot and either front, back, left, or right of it. If you don't guess which direction from the search spot correctly, you don't get a second chance.

 

With 5 minutes, I recall looking say at the spot and then backwards in a 20 yard square for 2 minutes, getting the rest of the group over, and then covering a new area relative to the start of the search point.

 

My favorite personal looking-for-ball story come from playing in a casual group with friends and hitting my ball into a forest next to the parking lot. Looked for a reasonable time, and then took the penalty and played on. After the round, walking in the parking lot, we found the ball on the edge of the forest next to the parking lot, but in bounds. Since our rounds had been pretty close and we were in good spirits, (and since it was sunset and the course was now empty) the group decided that I could play the ball from the forest in an attempt to improve my. (as this ball was lying one on a par 3, and I had made a 6 from the provisional). I hit to the green and two putted for 4, and in doing so leapfrogged one of the guys for total score. Complete disregard for the rules, but very fun.

 

 

[MtlJeff]

9 hours ago, Sawgrass said:

I see that I’m pretty much alone here, but I liked 5 minutes better than 3.  A lost ball is a pretty deadly penalty, and given how rarely the extra two minutes would be used, it’s a reasonable sacrifice for others to make on behalf of some poor soul.  
 

I actually have timed many searches, both my own and as a ref, and I’ve seen plenty of balls found in minutes 4 and 5.  In fact, it might take three minutes for others in the group to realize there’s a problem, and sometimes it’s only the last two minutes in which several people are looking.

 

 

 

I'm totally fine with 5. Just also fine with 3

 

As long as people aren't abusing it as others have said both are fine

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

 

I have noticed when looking for a ball under 3 minutes, you probably wander around for a minute on your own. Then you spend a minute getting others to come help you. Then it takes them a minute to get there. And you're out of luck.

 

I must say we have very different experiences, especially in high level competitions. What I have seen is that the entire group (including occasional caddies) enters the area more or less at the same time and use up the time until the ball is found or the time elapses (more and more players are using a stop-watch as they are a standard app in phones). Casual play is of no real interest, you either find your ball or not and move on.

 

My gut feeling on this issue of 3 / 5 minutes is that people are more prone hitting provisional balls than before.

[James the Hogan Fan]

23 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I must say we have very different experiences, especially in high level competitions. What I have seen is that the entire group (including occasional caddies) enters the area more or less at the same time and use up the time until the ball is found or the time elapses (more and more players are using a stop-watch as they are a standard app in phones). Casual play is of no real interest, you either find your ball or not and move on.

 

My gut feeling on this issue of 3 / 5 minutes is that people are more prone hitting provisional balls than before.

 

The trouble is, the clock starts when you commence searching in the area of your ball, correct? So if A, B, and C are playing, and all hit to different areas of the hole, (right rough, left rough, middle) the players will not be near each other. As A discovers his ball is not easily found and begins wandering in circles for it, B and C are playing their shots and that time is counting against A (unless, I suppose, he leaves the search area and waits for his fellow competitors to play their shots, either way he has used at least a minute of search time). Especially true on balls that "should be found" but for whatever reason are not.

 

Naturally high-level competitions will have different circumstances, due to the caliber of play (less likely to have multiple balls missing on a hole, more likely to know how far their shots travel), potential presence of spectators, caddies, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Bean]

34 minutes ago, James the Hogan Fan said:

 

The trouble is, the clock starts when you commence searching in the area of your ball, correct? So if A, B, and C are playing, and all hit to different areas of the hole, (right rough, left rough, middle) the players will not be near each other. As A discovers his ball is not easily found and begins wandering in circles for it, B and C are playing their shots and that time is counting against A (unless, I suppose, he leaves the search area and waits for his fellow competitors to play their shots, either way he has used at least a minute of search time). Especially true on balls that "should be found" but for whatever reason are not.

 

Naturally high-level competitions will have different circumstances, due to the caliber of play (less likely to have multiple balls missing on a hole, more likely to know how far their shots travel), potential presence of spectators, caddies, etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

We can all imagine or experience situations where the location of players or their balls is not optimal for the entire group to search for one ball together but that is hardly the point here. During my 30 years of golfing it is far more common to have one of the three balls to be searched than all three. Thus it is not too difficult to have the entire group to search for that one ball should all players want to participate.

 

I think everyone agrees that if there is an infinite time to search for a ball that ball will ultimately be found. Limiting the search time in general is a means of making players to evaluate their strategy on a given hole as they know losing a ball will cost them. Limiting the search time from 5 to 3 minutes is IMO supposed to further encourage the players to take less stupid risks and hit more provisional balls in order not to only make their scores better but also shorten the durations of our rounds.

[Emthree]

I was always taught that if it's offline and you didn't see it bounce, hit a provisional. The most time wasting thing ever is walking back to the tee.

[rogolf]

The original poster hasn't posted since his initial post.  I wonder what he or she means by "tons of people"?  I haven't seen that many people on the Tour courses since the restart.

I agree with others - 3 minutes of searching usually finds the ball, but permitting 5 minutes of searching didn't bother me (other than in casual play when 5 minutes was usually 8-9 minutes, and 3 minutes now is usually 4-7 minutes).  Pace of play is important, but not the most important aspect of the game - it doesn't over-ride everything else.

[chippa13]

There were more people looking for Bryson's ball than the Lindberg baby. Three minutes was plenty of search time.

[rogolf]

1 hour ago, chippa13 said:

There were more people looking for Bryson's ball than the Lindberg baby. Three minutes was plenty of search time.

I agree with the amount of search time and the result, but take umbrage with the analogy.  I saw 12 or 15 people looking and that should not be compared to something as immense as the Lindbergh kidnapping!  (if you knew about it, at least you'd spell the name correctly).

Edited November 16, 2020 by rogolf

[chippa13]

I've said many times, some people just need to be be angry about something each day. You have heard of the literary term hyperbole (exaggeration for effect). I'll apologize to the family for leaving off the "h" in their name later.

[Sean2]

On 11/14/2020 at 2:04 PM, Mr. Bean said:

 

This. Don't hit your ball in the rough.

If professionals have trouble finding the fairway, telling the amateur not to hit it in the rough is a bit funny. 

[BlackDiamondPar5]

On 11/15/2020 at 3:17 AM, Augster said:

I’m with you Sawgrass. I time every search. My own and others. Before it went to 3 minutes, you usually had everyone looking for your ball the last 3 minutes. Now, you usually only get everyone looking for about a minute. The others play their shots, then realize I’m still looking, and come over to help. 
 

I’ve found more balls in minutes 4 and 5 than I do in minute 3 now. 
 

I would like to see this rolled back. It would help me immensely. On my course, playing advantageously, there are 6 landing zones that you can’t see, which are severely sloped, so the ball can bounce nearly anywhere. Only a terrible shot actually holds the fairway, so on those 6 holes, everyone has to search the rough after not being able to see where it kicked to. The three minute search hasn’t done me any favors. 
 

Luckily we play E-5 in casual rounds. 

You should modify your game based on course conditions so you reduce the likelihood of a lost ball. 

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, Sean2 said:

If professionals have trouble finding the fairway, telling the amateur not to hit it in the rough is a bit funny. 

 

I thought golf is supposed to be fun(ny)...

[charli]

Really the only time I’d look longer than 3 minutes is during this time of year with the leaves. Also blind tee shot. But Bryson had the world looking for his ball. 3 minutes was plenty of time 

[rogolf]

16 minutes ago, charli said:

Really the only time I’d look longer than 3 minutes is during this time of year with the leaves. Also blind tee shot. But Bryson had the world looking for his ball. 3 minutes was plenty of time 

"the world"?  That's certainly a lot of hyperbole!  I didn't see many more than a dozen looking.

Imo, many of "the world" were looking the other way!  🙃

Edited November 17, 2020 by rogolf

[nsxguy]

On 11/14/2020 at 10:09 PM, Sawgrass said:

I see that I’m pretty much alone here, but I liked 5 minutes better than 3.  A lost ball is a pretty deadly penalty, and given how rarely the extra two minutes would be used, it’s a reasonable sacrifice for others to make on behalf of some poor soul.  
 

I actually have timed many searches, both my own and as a ref, and I’ve seen plenty of balls found in minutes 4 and 5.  In fact, it might take three minutes for others in the group to realize there’s a problem, and sometimes it’s only the last two minutes in which several people are looking.

 

 

 

Strangely(?) enough, IIRC, the search party found BDC's ball as he was being driven back to the tee, within the old 5 minute time frame.

[bladehunter]

3 minutes is plenty of time.  I was also fine with 5 minutes.  You generally find it within the first minute or not at all.  My experience