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Did 2020 finally show the golf world that Augusta is just a rather average course?


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Actually- a fair question with I hope a fair answer.

The magic of Augusta National is that Jones wanted it to be a second shot golf course. The tee shot doesn't demand perfection but the second shot matters a whole lot to the score on that hole. There are some similarities to St. Andrews which someone mentioned.

This week is an outlier and the consistency of scores dating many decades back validates the soundness of the design and conditioning of a major championship venue that gets played every year. 

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No. Augusta and the Masters is about tradition. We all know there are harder courses.

The Op knows next to zero about golf.  Impossible to debate.  Must be trolling hard   Just so glad Bryson was not winning this thing.  His story is wearing me down because all the people tha

Langer beat Hulk Bryson. Good to see that there is more to golf than muscles.

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3 hours ago, FakeClubPro said:

Dustin was awesome but it seemed an easier course.  Not like Oakmont, Bethpage Black or Shinnecock.

 

These southern courses are pretty but may be somewhat easier tracks.

 

Great players talking about Oakmont:

Tiger Woods:"That golf course is going to be one of the toughest tests that we've ever played in a U.S. Open, especially if it's dry, it will be unreal because those greens are so severe."

Arnold Palmer: "You can hit 72 greens in the Open at Oakmont and not come close to winning."

Rocco Mediate said of the greens that they are "almost impossible"

Sam Snead once commented that he tried to mark his ball on one of Oakmont's greens but the coin slid off.

Lee Trevino claimed every time he two-putted at Oakmont he knew he was passing somebody on the leader board.

Johnny Miller said that Oakmont's are the greatest set of greens for testing a player's ability to putt.

USGA Sr. Director Mike Davis: " scariest in golf."

I would also add that a famous golf course architect Tillinghast thought that not being able to break par at a golf course was a bad thing

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It was soft, it’s November, it rained.  Some of the best players in the world still shot over par.  What was the low round for the week, 65?  
 

next...

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4 hours ago, FakeClubPro said:

Dustin was awesome but it seemed an easier course.  Not like Oakmont, Bethpage Black or Shinnecock.

 

These southern courses are pretty but may be somewhat easier tracks.

 

Great players talking about Oakmont:

Tiger Woods:"That golf course is going to be one of the toughest tests that we've ever played in a U.S. Open, especially if it's dry, it will be unreal because those greens are so severe."

Arnold Palmer: "You can hit 72 greens in the Open at Oakmont and not come close to winning."

Rocco Mediate said of the greens that they are "almost impossible"

Sam Snead once commented that he tried to mark his ball on one of Oakmont's greens but the coin slid off.

Lee Trevino claimed every time he two-putted at Oakmont he knew he was passing somebody on the leader board.

Johnny Miller said that Oakmont's are the greatest set of greens for testing a player's ability to putt.

USGA Sr. Director Mike Davis: " scariest in golf."

"These southern courses are pretty but may be somewhat easier tracks".....

 

What are you even talking about???

 

TPC Sawgrass, Quail Hollow, PGA National, and Innisbrook (to name a few) all routinely rank as among the most difficult stops on the PGA Tour year after year.

 

And for good measure, let's just throw in the Ocean Course at Kiawah.....often touted as the hardest course in the US (if not the world).

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8 hours ago, tmac7592 said:

Right. I’m not saying Augusta would necessarily play easier but let’s say oakmont cut their rough same length as Augusta did. How does it end up then. I’d argue Augusta shows it’s teeth despite having any rough or places where you can really lost balls


 

While the rough at Oakmont is longer and denser than almost everywhere I have seen on a daily basis, and definitely for championship play, it’s defense is the greens. They’re so undulating and so fast, much more so than Augusta (ANGC has some slopes and speed but not too Oakmont levels). I think the better comparison would be to have Oakmont slow the greens down to Augusta’s speed. Which depending on the green would be upwards of two feet. 

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@FakeClubPro Do you know anything about the scoring history of The Masters? It's been won by 17/18 under 4 times across many decades prior to DJs new record. Add in a very soft course and rather benign wind and that will contribute to better scoring. So plain and simple answer to your question, NO. 

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30 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Southern tracks ?  We’ve identified the issue.  Hate for this tournament because it’s “ ours”.    Lol.    Folks. As a southeastern United  states native , this ^ is why we love and cling to Augusta and the masters so much.  And it’s why it was built  in the first place.  To combat the elitist northeastern attitudes.   For Jones to have something that “ they “ couldn’t claim.  A place for him to play and not be their “ spectacle “ to watch.  The greatest inland course in the world was the goal.  It’s debatable. But it’s certainly in the conversation. 
      Now that’s not  me painting all from the northeast with that brush.  There are many here ( Richard for one ) who are not that way.  But ..... the red headed step children of the country are aware of the idea that says that anything from here is inferior and can’t possibly be considered up to snuff with the true blue blood roots. 

Yup, those notoriously difficult northern courses like Erin Hills and Whistling Straits..........

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Low scores doesn't necessarily equal a bad course. Part of the excitement for me at the Masters is watching 13 and 15, because huge swings can happen there. I don't think anyone has ever claimed that Augusta is as hard a course as Oakmont. We always would have said the back 9 is gettable but that's part of the reason we like it. 

 

If the scores get lower it's because golfers are getting better, which makes sense over time, the same way sprinters have gotten faster since like 1970. 

 

Dustin winning with -20 by 5 shots didn't provide any less excitement to me than if we had won with -10 over someone at -5. 

 

Augusta is also a fantastic "TV" course, meaning the holes really pop. There's some courses out there that are challenging but every hole looks the same

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Isn't the Masters about making birdies? This isn't the US Open.  The back 9 on Sunday is about guys trying to go low and win. One of the reasons I love the Masters is that it is more about offense than defense. In the South, where I live, it goes deep. It's the unofficial start of spring. The Bermuda is starting to wake up after a dormant winter. The Dogwoods and azaleas are blooming, the days are getting longer, and, unless you have allergies, it's about the most beautiful time of the year. There is so much tradition associated with the Masters, ANGC, at least to me, will always be unattainable pinnacle of golf.

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16 hours ago, 3whacker said:

the TV camera doesnt do justice to the elevation changes at ANGC, many of the shots are blind and the player has no idea where the shot may have landed, without patrons CBS did a fair job to show the mounds but until you see the property you have no idea as to how much uphill/downhill certain holes play

To your point, it appears that every year they do a better job showing the slopes. I wondered this year if it was drones flying lower since it seems ground level and high level both hide the slopes. One shot I noticed this year was the big upslope at the front of #5 green. 

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48 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

Low scores doesn't necessarily equal a bad course. Part of the excitement for me at the Masters is watching 13 and 15, because huge swings can happen there. I don't think anyone has ever claimed that Augusta is as hard a course as Oakmont. We always would have said the back 9 is gettable but that's part of the reason we like it. 

 

If the scores get lower it's because golfers are getting better, which makes sense over time, the same way sprinters have gotten faster since like 1970. 

 

Dustin winning with -20 by 5 shots didn't provide any less excitement to me than if we had won with -10 over someone at -5. 

 

Augusta is also a fantastic "TV" course, meaning the holes really pop. There's some courses out there that are challenging but every hole looks the same

Nah man.... I've read here on wrx that the sprinters are faster only because if the tracks and shoes. And high school girls are only faster swimmers then Tarzan, Johnny Weissmuller, because of the suits. 

Haven't you heard that the players of the past were better than today's hacks?

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1 hour ago, golfandfishing said:

Yup, those notoriously difficult northern courses like Erin Hills and Whistling Straits..........

Don't forget TPC Boston.....which DJ torched with a -30 at the Northern Trust.

 

Like I posted earlier, these "somewhat easier" southern tracks are routinely found among the PGA Tour's most difficult courses year after year.

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3 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Southern tracks ?  We’ve identified the issue.  Hate for this tournament because it’s “ ours”.    Lol.    Folks. As a southeastern United  states native , this ^ is why we love and cling to Augusta and the masters so much.  And it’s why it was built  in the first place.  To combat the elitist northeastern attitudes.   For Jones to have something that “ they “ couldn’t claim.  A place for him to play and not be their “ spectacle “ to watch.  The greatest inland course in the world was the goal.  It’s debatable. But it’s certainly in the conversation. 
      Now that’s not  me painting all from the northeast with that brush.  There are many here ( Richard for one ) who are not that way.  But ..... the red headed step children of the country are aware of the idea that says that anything from here is inferior and can’t possibly be considered up to snuff with the true blue blood roots. 

 

I was born in the south and live there.   Augusta just needs to be spruced up with sand traps at 300 yards not at 240 yards where Gentleman Jim Hootie hit it 240 yards back in 1950 where they have the sand traps now. The bombers just blast it by those sandtraps.

 

Add water going across the fairways on more holes.  My local muni has a par 4 (built in the 1940s) with 410 yards from the tips.  There is water at 280 yards and the water about 25 yards wide.   The green has sand traps all around.   This is a tough hole for a muni.   Augusta needs some tougher holes.

 

Augusta cut down the Eisenhower tree and other trees.  They should plant more trees. 

Augusta has huge wide fairways and the trees are mainly pine which are easy to play around.  High handicappers can hit off of pine straw.  They was want a pretty course for TV and it is beautiful.  It seems like a nice place for the CEOs who can become members.  They want Jim Nantz in hushed voices talking like he is in church while slow southern style piano music plays in the background.   And where were the mockingbirds you usually hear during The Masters?

 

Still, an amazing tourney by Dustin Johnson.  Cameron Smith and IM also gave it a great run.

 

I love how the DJ haters can eat crow now.

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3 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Southern tracks ?  We’ve identified the issue.  Hate for this tournament because it’s “ ours”.    Lol.    Folks. As a southeastern United  states native , this ^ is why we love and cling to Augusta and the masters so much.  And it’s why it was built  in the first place.  To combat the elitist northeastern attitudes.   For Jones to have something that “ they “ couldn’t claim.  A place for him to play and not be their “ spectacle “ to watch.  The greatest inland course in the world was the goal.  It’s debatable. But it’s certainly in the conversation. 
      Now that’s not  me painting all from the northeast with that brush.  There are many here ( Richard for one ) who are not that way.  But ..... the red headed step children of the country are aware of the idea that says that anything from here is inferior and can’t possibly be considered up to snuff with the true blue blood roots. 


Elitist northern attitudes?  I agree with that because I was born and live in the south.  However, all these courses are elitist.  Try getting a tee time at Augusta.  Most of these places are outrageously expensive even if you can get a tee time.   Unless your a CEO of some company then you cannot get through the front door.


Augusta is beautiful and playing it off season made it look a bit easier than it is.  DJ played incredible golf too.  I am very happy for him as he grew up just down the road. 

 

Credit to a few places like Bethpage or Torrey Pines where the avg Joe can go play.   Whistling Straits is open to the public but it is $410 a round, $65 or 100 for the caddy plus a $50 tip.

 

As far as the south - under CoVID - we have endless people flooding into the south who should stay where they are.   Loads of corporations in NYC are moving to Nashville.  The economic growth of the south is almost too much.   The south won that one but I wish fewer people were moving to the south.

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Interesting discussion, but the short answer is no. Augusta proved to be the great equalizer against the 48 inch driver. Course played very soft, April will be far different. DJ was flawless, it won’t happen everyday. 
I was quite surprised after all the talk of 340 yard drives, and “67 is my par” on this course that Augusta held up. 
This is a classic, walkers, strategic golf course. You can hit it all over the park. We saw more trees hit, more pine straw root rattling shots than ever before. A win for Augusta. I did miss the usual pin placement on 16 though. 

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28 minutes ago, FakeClubPro said:


Elitist northern attitudes?  I agree with that because I was born and live in the south.  However, all these courses are elitist.  Try getting a tee time at Augusta.  Most of these places are outrageously expensive even if you can get a tee time.   Unless your a CEO of some company then you cannot get through the front door.


Augusta is beautiful and playing it off season made it look a bit easier than it is.  DJ played incredible golf too.  I am very happy for him as he grew up just down the road. 

 

Credit to a few places like Bethpage or Torrey Pines where the avg Joe can go play.   Whistling Straits is open to the public but it is $410 a round, $65 or 100 for the caddy plus a $50 tip.

 

As far as the south - under CoVID - we have endless people flooding into the south who should stay where they are.   Loads of corporations in NYC are moving to Nashville.  The economic growth of the south is almost too much.   The south won that one but I wish fewer people were moving to the south.

I’ll agree to that last part. 10000%. 
 

 

 

What t I’m saying is that kids from here don’t stand on the putting green or get into the game because hey dream of the us or THe open.  They do it by and large because of Augusta.  And some folks Either deny that or refute it as nonsense. The us open isnt quite worth as much as a green jacket here.  Not to say anybody wouldn’t want to win a us open. But I’m just saying that it’s different in different locations and a lot of Augusta hate comes from the us open rota sections of the Country.  
 

Augusta when it’s not sloppy wet will stand up to any player anytime.  Much like pebble or shinecock or oakmont.  

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