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Few "Vegas" course reviews - Cascata, Coyote Springs, Wolf Creek


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Few reviews from my trip last week. I use Vegas in quotes because I know WC is in Mesquite and CS is in the middle of nowhere. But we played all of them on a Vegas trip. I also rate these under the umbrella of "I'm on vacation, is this a fun vacation course to play and spend my money at".


I'll go least favorite to favorite. Course rating (enjoyability, playability) , facility (range, clubhouse, practice facilities, carts etc) and value grade.

 

Wolf Creek - I absolutely, 100% do not understand the absurdly high ratings for this course. Clearly I just dont "get it" - because I absolutely missed what is supposed to be so great about this course. The views were outstanding, the scenery was breathtaking. But from a golf standpoint it is something I do not get. Just about every hole has hundreds of feet in elevation change or a blind landing zone - or both. On top of that - its not like the landing areas off the tee are huge, they are narrow AF. And hey I shot 79 so its not like I stunk up the joint or was chasing balls all day.

 

From a playability standpoint on a packed course you might actually be completely unsure where the group is in front of you - and I mean more than once a round. Its a course that could really use one of those on-cart GPS systems to 1 - tell you how far a shot is and what an approximate adjusted number is but more importantly 2 - show you where the carts are in front of you. On two holes, the false fronts are so severe that perfectly struck shots might end up over *100* yards back in the fairway. And I lasered those, those are not exaggerations. One of those holes was a long par 5...I think, I have to double check it wasnt a long 4.

 

There are no real practice facilities to speak of. Again after over an hour drive, you have a tiny practice putting green and a very small irons-only range. Decent pro shop, good grill, nothing out of the ordinary there.

 

But it was like playing a Golden Tee course in real life. Was it beautiful? Yes. Was it neat to see and play once? I guess. But for $200+ and an hour fifteen minute drive each way? Nah, I dont think so. For the same price I'd much rather play Bali Hai again and have 3+ hours of my Vegas trip back in driving time.

 

Course: C+

Facilities: C-

Value: C/C-

Replay: Hard no

 

Coyote Springs - This is another course I absolutely did not get - but for different reasons. This course is part of a failed housing development and is the very definition of out in the middle of nowhere. But clearly they are putting absolutely NO money into the facilities or infrastructure. For a course thats been open going on ten years, its kind of a joke. The pro shop and "grill" are in semi permanent trailers - just silly really. There are no locker rooms and only two tiny bathrooms that are...well...what you would expect in a trailer bathroom. So after an hour drive, dont plan on having a place to change. The carts were probably bought ten years ago and never upgraded, they are barely functioning gas carts. One of ours broke down before we started and the other got a flat on the back nine. Read some Golf Advisor reviews - my guess is they never replace the tires, they just fill them up and wait for them to go flat again. The one on course bathroom was shuttered - which I thought was for Covid reasons - but they had a replacement trailer bathroom parked right next to it. Again, a sign they are not putting any money into the facilities. I usually dont need a lot but for $150?

 

Man the range and practice area though are a solid A, just a HUGE beautiful grass range and an excellent short game area. Loved the course itself. Couple of quirky holes as a Nicklaus design is going to have but otherwise - I loved it. And the conditioning is an A+, the course is on an aquifer so has no issues getting water.

 

Thing is, I would not go back specifically because of how bad the infrastructure is. For that price, I dont want a lot but it would be nice to have some sort of grill/porch to hang out at afterwards and carts that aren't crapping out. But there's no place to even really have a beer after unless you want to sit in the trailer/grill. Just overall feels like a course that JUST opened - not one thats been open for that long.

 

Course: A

Facilities: Mixed. Practice: A, Other: D-

Value: B-

Replay: Probably not

 

Cascata

 

The polar opposite of the other two. With some sort of Caesars status you can get a pretty reduced rate, right down to what you'd pay at Wolf Creek. There is also a really good replay rate but we didn't have time to take advantage of it. Half hour drive from the Strip. 

 

Beautiful practice area looking right into the mountains. The day we played there was a heard of bighorn sheep at the far end of the range. Saw tons of wildlife there all day. Basement of the clubhouse is an open grotto design where you drive your cart right indoors and they will unload your stuff while you go up and eat. Good food and excellent service all day.

 

Course was in great shape but man the greens were FAST. I think in the clubhouse it said they were running a 12 but they may have been faster. Could not find a ball mark all day. BUT - it was a very fair design IMO. Completely different from Wolf Creek although the designs could be seen as similar. Forecaddie was extremely helpful in pointing out lines and getting us (a twosome) to quickly play through a couple of slow foursomes in front of us. Except for a pretty dumb design on the 18th hole - I would absolutely look forward to playing here again.

 

Course: A - I knock it down from an A+ because of how much I hated 18 and how I think they could have designed it differently.

Facilities: A+

Value: A/A-. Without Caesars status I think it will run you $399.

Replay: Absolutely

 

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Pretty surprised that you view Wolf Creek so negatively.    I completely agree that it's certainly not a golf architecture masterpiece, but the course is truly one-of-a-kind. I always recomm

Few reviews from my trip last week. I use Vegas in quotes because I know WC is in Mesquite and CS is in the middle of nowhere. But we played all of them on a Vegas trip. I also rate these under the um

I agree 100%. I don't get the love for this course, especially when there are better courses in the area. I'll take Conestoga over WC all day every day.

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Pretty surprised that you view Wolf Creek so negatively. 

 

I completely agree that it's certainly not a golf architecture masterpiece, but the course is truly one-of-a-kind. I always recommend it to guys going to Vegas to play because the environment is so unique.

 

I've played it twice and left satisfied both times (in 110* heat, no less). It isn't a course I'd want to play every day but I find it extremely memorable.

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8 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

Wolf Creek - I absolutely, 100% do not understand the absurdly high ratings for this course. Clearly I just dont "get it" - because I absolutely missed what is supposed to be so great about this course. The views were outstanding, the scenery was breathtaking. But from a golf standpoint it is something I do not get. Just about every hole has hundreds of feet in elevation change or a blind landing zone - or both. On top of that - its not like the landing areas off the tee are huge, they are narrow AF. And hey I shot 79 so its not like I stunk up the joint or was chasing balls all day.

 

From a playability standpoint on a packed course you might actually be completely unsure where the group is in front of you - and I mean more than once a round. Its a course that could really use one of those on-cart GPS systems to 1 - tell you how far a shot is and what an approximate adjusted number is but more importantly 2 - show you where the carts are in front of you. On two holes, the false fronts are so severe that perfectly struck shots might end up over *100* yards back in the fairway. And I lasered those, those are not exaggerations. One of those holes was a long par 5...I think, I have to double check it wasnt a long 4.

 

There are no real practice facilities to speak of. Again after over an hour drive, you have a tiny practice putting green and a very small irons-only range. Decent pro shop, good grill, nothing out of the ordinary there.

 

But it was like playing a Golden Tee course in real life. Was it beautiful? Yes. Was it neat to see and play once? I guess. But for $200+ and an hour fifteen minute drive each way? Nah, I dont think so. For the same price I'd much rather play Bali Hai again and have 3+ hours of my Vegas trip back in driving time.

 

Course: C+

Facilities: C-

Value: C/C-

Replay: Hard no

 

 

I agree 100%. I don't get the love for this course, especially when there are better courses in the area. I'll take Conestoga over WC all day every day.

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11 hours ago, UCBananaboy said:

Pretty surprised that you view Wolf Creek so negatively. 

 

I completely agree that it's certainly not a golf architecture masterpiece, but the course is truly one-of-a-kind. I always recommend it to guys going to Vegas to play because the environment is so unique.

 

I've played it twice and left satisfied both times (in 110* heat, no less). It isn't a course I'd want to play every day but I find it extremely memorable.

 

Building a course into the side of a canyon definitely makes it unique and one of a kind and a place with beautiful scenery - it doesnt necessarily make it a fun place to play golf or spend $250. Heck I can drive 20 minutes from the Strip out to Red Rock if I just want cool scenery. Like I said, I just dont get it.

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20 hours ago, YMark said:

I agree 100%. I don't get the love for this course, especially when there are better courses in the area. I'll take Conestoga over WC all day every day.

 

I played Conestoga instead of WC and had some regrets but that's been cleared up.  I had a great time at Conestoga and met great people there.  

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On 11/17/2020 at 12:55 PM, dcmidnight said:

Few reviews from my trip last week. I use Vegas in quotes because I know WC is in Mesquite and CS is in the middle of nowhere. But we played all of them on a Vegas trip. I also rate these under the umbrella of "I'm on vacation, is this a fun vacation course to play and spend my money at".


I'll go least favorite to favorite. Course rating (enjoyability, playability) , facility (range, clubhouse, practice facilities, carts etc) and value grade.

 

Wolf Creek - I absolutely, 100% do not understand the absurdly high ratings for this course. Clearly I just dont "get it" - because I absolutely missed what is supposed to be so great about this course. The views were outstanding, the scenery was breathtaking. But from a golf standpoint it is something I do not get. Just about every hole has hundreds of feet in elevation change or a blind landing zone - or both. On top of that - its not like the landing areas off the tee are huge, they are narrow AF. And hey I shot 79 so its not like I stunk up the joint or was chasing balls all day.

 

From a playability standpoint on a packed course you might actually be completely unsure where the group is in front of you - and I mean more than once a round. Its a course that could really use one of those on-cart GPS systems to 1 - tell you how far a shot is and what an approximate adjusted number is but more importantly 2 - show you where the carts are in front of you. On two holes, the false fronts are so severe that perfectly struck shots might end up over *100* yards back in the fairway. And I lasered those, those are not exaggerations. One of those holes was a long par 5...I think, I have to double check it wasnt a long 4.

 

There are no real practice facilities to speak of. Again after over an hour drive, you have a tiny practice putting green and a very small irons-only range. Decent pro shop, good grill, nothing out of the ordinary there.

 

But it was like playing a Golden Tee course in real life. Was it beautiful? Yes. Was it neat to see and play once? I guess. But for $200+ and an hour fifteen minute drive each way? Nah, I dont think so. For the same price I'd much rather play Bali Hai again and have 3+ hours of my Vegas trip back in driving time.

 

Course: C+

Facilities: C-

Value: C/C-

Replay: Hard no

 

Coyote Springs - This is another course I absolutely did not get - but for different reasons. This course is part of a failed housing development and is the very definition of out in the middle of nowhere. But clearly they are putting absolutely NO money into the facilities or infrastructure. For a course thats been open going on ten years, its kind of a joke. The pro shop and "grill" are in semi permanent trailers - just silly really. There are no locker rooms and only two tiny bathrooms that are...well...what you would expect in a trailer bathroom. So after an hour drive, dont plan on having a place to change. The carts were probably bought ten years ago and never upgraded, they are barely functioning gas carts. One of ours broke down before we started and the other got a flat on the back nine. Read some Golf Advisor reviews - my guess is they never replace the tires, they just fill them up and wait for them to go flat again. The one on course bathroom was shuttered - which I thought was for Covid reasons - but they had a replacement trailer bathroom parked right next to it. Again, a sign they are not putting any money into the facilities. I usually dont need a lot but for $150?

 

Man the range and practice area though are a solid A, just a HUGE beautiful grass range and an excellent short game area. Loved the course itself. Couple of quirky holes as a Nicklaus design is going to have but otherwise - I loved it. And the conditioning is an A+, the course is on an aquifer so has no issues getting water.

 

Thing is, I would not go back specifically because of how bad the infrastructure is. For that price, I dont want a lot but it would be nice to have some sort of grill/porch to hang out at afterwards and carts that aren't crapping out. But there's no place to even really have a beer after unless you want to sit in the trailer/grill. Just overall feels like a course that JUST opened - not one thats been open for that long.

 

Course: A

Facilities: Mixed. Practice: A, Other: D-

Value: B-

Replay: Probably not

 

Cascata

 

The polar opposite of the other two. With some sort of Caesars status you can get a pretty reduced rate, right down to what you'd pay at Wolf Creek. There is also a really good replay rate but we didn't have time to take advantage of it. Half hour drive from the Strip. 

 

Beautiful practice area looking right into the mountains. The day we played there was a heard of bighorn sheep at the far end of the range. Saw tons of wildlife there all day. Basement of the clubhouse is an open grotto design where you drive your cart right indoors and they will unload your stuff while you go up and eat. Good food and excellent service all day.

 

Course was in great shape but man the greens were FAST. I think in the clubhouse it said they were running a 12 but they may have been faster. Could not find a ball mark all day. BUT - it was a very fair design IMO. Completely different from Wolf Creek although the designs could be seen as similar. Forecaddie was extremely helpful in pointing out lines and getting us (a twosome) to quickly play through a couple of slow foursomes in front of us. Except for a pretty dumb design on the 18th hole - I would absolutely look forward to playing here again.

 

Course: A - I knock it down from an A+ because of how much I hated 18 and how I think they could have designed it differently.

Facilities: A+

Value: A/A-. Without Caesars status I think it will run you $399.

Replay: Absolutely

 

 

Do you have to book through a host to get the players rate at Cascata?  Wife is diamond but not high enough diamond to draw attention of a host. 

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I did not - I just emailed straight to Cascata with my players card number and name. Now this was....over a year ago that I booked so not sure if the policy is different now or not.

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I love Coyote Springs. But I’ve never cared too much about the physical facilities. We had a place to sit inside, have a beer while watching a game, and settle the bets. Good enough for us. Hardly ever see another group out there which I always really liked. Fortunately we’ve never had any cart issues,  but I can certainly see where that would leave a sour taste for the place. 
 

I’m a bit indifferent on Wolf Creek. Some really cool holes and shots out there, but I agree 100% on the blind shots. And not only blind,  on some of them (if you’ve never been there before or playing with someone who has), you stand on the tee not even knowing where to hit.  Great proshop though. But that range is such. a joke. 


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Wolf Creek - I honestly had so much fun playing this course. Even if it is a little bit of circus golf, I've never played a course like it.  The views are incredible, elevation changes insane.  I played really well that day too and we played in September so I think it was like $90 or something which definitely helps me deal with some of the goofiness of the course. As for the range, might as well not have one. My friend actually tweaked is wrist before the round because the ground was so hard. 

 

Coyote Springs - Fun, beautiful course. Greens are a little crazy, but it's a good test. 

 

Never ponied up the $400 for Cascata but did play Reflection Bay for $75 on a golfnow deal, what a steal!

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Thanks for the reviews DCM.

 

I have played WC once and I loved it.  Like many other reviews said, it is not meant to be a "daily" course, but more of a "Got to try it once" play.  I shot 82 and had fun playing it.  Only problem was slow play - mainly because everyone had their iPhones out taking pics of every hole.

 

Never played CS or Cascata, but CS is definitely on my list.  Glad to hear the range + course are A+ that basically all I care about. 

 

Other choices - played The Wolf @ Paiute and it is amazing.  The other 2 courses on site are excellent as well.

 

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Played WC last year and was a bit disappointed. Having researched the course, I had huge expectations.  For a top ranked course, I was expecting the practice facilities to be better, it's quite small and you can only hit long irons max.  The practice green was undulating and too small considering the undulations  The speed was not even close to the speed of the greens on the course.  The course itself is quite spectacular, depending on the tee boxes, some tee shots are blind.  The elevation changes are crazy, we started on the tenth hole, when we reached the 11th tee, we had zero idea how long it would play due 60-80ft drop.  I wished I had slope on my range finder, it would have saved me several strokes during the round.  It's a course you have to play a couple of times if you want to score well and I would definably go back and play it again.  On a brag note, I ended up acing the 17th hole, had to buy beers for the rest of the night, but with my luck, we ended up at the casino for most of the night. Almost forgot, it's a slow round, don't be surprised if it takes 5 hours.

 

I really liked Coyote Springs, it is in the middle of absolutely nowhere. Agree with the OP that the clubhouse is minimal at best, I'm not looking for fine dining or a spa, as long it has cold beer and a half decent dog I'm ok with that.  I understand that the course was suppose to be part of a bigger development that went bust.  The course was in great shape, probably the best shape of all the courses on our trip. Wolf Creek, The Oasis, Sand Hollow, Paiute and Royal Links (starter was a dick!).  The practice facilities was huge, wished  I had more time there.  Not a huge Nicklaus fan but really enjoyed the layout.  I would definitely go back next time, even though it is a bit of a drive.

 

Have not played Cascata, don't know if I would drop the big coin there.  I think there a two course deal with Rio Secco.

 

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Wolf Creek- It is definitely eye candy and who doesn't like to hit driver from an elevated tee box and watch it go for seemingly ever?  That being said, I have played it 3 times, and I don't think it has ever taken less than 5 hours, usually 5:30-6.  Last time, I think there were two or three groups waiting to tee off the on the first par 3 (either 2nd or third hole) as we arrived.  When you combine the constant waiting with heat, ouch....And yes, the practice facilities suck.  I much prefer the experience at Conestoga over Wolf Creek, quicker rounds and still a pretty golf course, although 16 and 17 are pretty lacking.

 

Coyote Springs- only played it once, fantastic practice facilities and course was pretty good too, but not worth the drive all things considered.

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What didn't you like about 18? I think it's a great risk/reward hole. When I played it my forecaddy said OK we are going to hit two drives here. Hit the first one then I will give you a line to hit the second one. The second line seemed like I was hitting out to the desert. Hit the line great and drove up to find my ball 149y out from the green. Of course I made a 3-putt par.

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34 minutes ago, scottc25 said:

What didn't you like about 18? I think it's a great risk/reward hole. When I played it my forecaddy said OK we are going to hit two drives here. Hit the first one then I will give you a line to hit the second one. The second line seemed like I was hitting out to the desert. Hit the line great and drove up to find my ball 149y out from the green. Of course I made a 3-putt par.

 

Then you must have hit a ~320 yard drive, mostly carry, completely blind - as you said - aiming at the desert. Great shot. Its all desert, the course was built out of nothing, they could have easily built a beautiful long par 5 that matches the rest of the course, not an almost double dogleg par 5 that IMO is just one step too far when you consider how great the rest of the course is. 

 

Here's a screenshot to show where you have to aim to end up 150 yards out - and thats assuming you didn't play it further back. On a great course like that, the line shouldn't be more than 45* left of the tee box, completely blind. Not sorry - thats idiotic.

 

Screen Shot 2020-11-29 at 8.48.05 AM.jpg

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13 hours ago, CDM said:

Hope the OP does not play Tobacco Road 😃     

 

As noted WC is not a every day course.  Its a trarget course for sure, if your good of the tee the course is not that hard.   

 

One of my favorite courses in Pinehurst - cant even compare the two tracks.

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7 hours ago, dcmidnight said:

 

Then you must have hit a ~320 yard drive, mostly carry, completely blind - as you said - aiming at the desert. Great shot. Its all desert, the course was built out of nothing, they could have easily built a beautiful long par 5 that matches the rest of the course, not an almost double dogleg par 5 that IMO is just one step too far when you consider how great the rest of the course is. 

 

Here's a screenshot to show where you have to aim to end up 150 yards out - and thats assuming you didn't play it further back. On a great course like that, the line shouldn't be more than 45* left of the tee box, completely blind. Not sorry - thats idiotic.

 

Screen Shot 2020-11-29 at 8.48.05 AM.jpg

 

The areal makes me see what you mean, especially if you have to lay-up. I did hit it good, didn't know I hit it that good. The box you picked is likely the one I hit from. I must be a true WRX'er 🙂 Too be fair my sea level carry average is 290.

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We just had a Vegas trip the first week of Oct.  Played, Bali, TPC Vegas, Wynn, and Desert Pines.

 

Bali is Bali, everyone knows it is a good, fun place to play.  TPC Vegas was in tremendous condition but playing it for the first time was a little tough with several blind tee shots and not being certain on the line needed.  Would absolutely play it again.

 

The Wynn was awesome and I will play it every time I am out there.  Loved that place and had an ace on #12 which made it really cool.  They gave me the flag.

 

Desert Pines , BLOWS.  The greens were so slow.  Avoid it at all costs.

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