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Mizuno and Faldo show difference between blades and newer clubs...it’s the loft


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I will say that a year ago Plugged In Golf did a test that did show loft for loft distance gains with distance irons. This was the result of a ball speed bump and lower spin. I believe this is most likely due to face deflection. 
 

Peak shot height wasn’t much if any higher on average and there were no big differences in dispersion or accuracy.

 

Their test 5 years before that showed almost no difference whatsoever. So the good news is that the manufacturers have been able to squeeze a bit more distance out of the same loft in the past few years. 

RomaRo 435LX 10*-Quadra FEX 65SX 

PRGR Egg HD 14.5*-Fubuki 75S 3W
PRGR EGG 20* - M-43S 7 wood

RomaRo iBrid 2 22* - Crazy Hybrid 

Miura PP9003SN 5-G - Modus 125S 

Miura HB12 @ 55* - Modus 125 W

2015 PM Grind 60* - KBS Tour V

Axis1 Rose - Garsen Quad Tour grip
 

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Never underestimate the desire of the holier-than-thou golfer to try to tell other people how they should think about the game in the most condescending way possible.

Never underestimate the desire of the amateur golfer to believe that stamping a 6 iron with a 7 is going to be some sort of magic elixir 

If you strike the ball like Nick Faldo... sure.   For everyone else it's a different story. 

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1 hour ago, kiwihacker said:

I'm coming from irons with lofts that are now considered 'traditional' lofts (24° 4 iron - 47° PW) and the difficulty I'm having is that loft increments are all over the place in order to arrive at an approximately 50° Gap wedge. Looking at Titleist for example the T100 are much the same as mine. But the T200 and 300 my 4 - PW lofts are basically 5 - GW. But the GW being 48° means I still need another 52° GW.

 

But looking at say Srixon. The ZX 7 lofts effectively skip a club or split the difference between the 7, 8, 9 iron and PW.

 

My clubs: 35, 39, 43, 47

 

Srixon ZX 7: 36, 41, 46

 

So one less iron allows me to carry an extra wedge but effectively I've just tossed out my 8 iron and bent my 9 iron 2° strong. Sort of a minimalist approach. LOL

 

The ZX 5 on the other hand the 5-9 is basically my 4-8 then they add an extra 1° for a 44° PW vs my 43° 9 iron. Then a 50° Gap wedge? Fagettaboudit!!! Therecis a 10-15 yard gap between my 43° and 47° club. A 44° club would potentially leave me a 30 yard gap to a 50° club. 

 

A 48 degree should be part of the ZX5 set standard, but it would draw attention to the huge gap and need to carry an additional wedge, which would draw attention to the irons being longer only due to loft creep. 

 

I just added a 48 degree to my set (I have a 46 degree set PW) and the gapping is great; that is my money 120-130 yard club.  Trouble is, if I am playing competitively at some point, I now have 15 clubs as I want to carry a 52/56/60.  That means I either drop my 4-iron (which is 215-225 for me) or lose my 3-hybrid (235-250), resulting in a pretty big gap on those holes where I am trying to reach a par 5 in 2. 

 

I may just go 53/57 and forget the lob wedge

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1 hour ago, RoyalMustang said:

 

A 48 degree should be part of the ZX5 set standard, but it would draw attention to the huge gap and need to carry an additional wedge, which would draw attention to the irons being longer only due to loft creep. 

 

I just added a 48 degree to my set (I have a 46 degree set PW) and the gapping is great; that is my money 120-130 yard club.  Trouble is, if I am playing competitively at some point, I now have 15 clubs as I want to carry a 52/56/60.  That means I either drop my 4-iron (which is 215-225 for me) or lose my 3-hybrid (235-250), resulting in a pretty big gap on those holes where I am trying to reach a par 5 in 2. 

 

I may just go 53/57 and forget the lob wedge

I would love to bag a modern 5-PW and then play 46/50/54/58. In my current setup that would require dropping my 4 iron or a hybrid leaving a big gap at the long end of the bag. So I play 47/52/58.

Cobra King F9  Driver 10.5° Atmos Blue 6 stiff
17° Callaway X Hot 4 wood
20.5°& 23° Cleveland DST Launcher hybrids
Mizuno MP58 4-PW irons
Cleveland RTX 2 52°/10°, RTX 3 58°/9°
Ping Anser Sigma 2 putter

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9 hours ago, Hogan9 said:

I've wondered about gapping. I'll probably be changing irons before long. I'm 70 and I think going to graphite shafts will help with the wear and tear. I'm playing Mizuno JPX 850 forged now, but was a Hogan player before that. I'm intrigued with the "new" Hogans. They have 4* gaps through the entire set and the lofts are slightly stronger. What are your thoughts on that?

I am not an absolute believer in the 4* gapping. What matters is carry gapping imo. Varies by player in that set of clubs.

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14 hours ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

How else should I have read his use of "magic elixir" ?  It sure seemed like he was telling people how to think.

 

Shaft length is the other variable, and that really matters.  The shorter the shaft the easier the club is to hit.  You could just as easily say "my 37 inch club now goes 10 yards farther" than "my 7 goes 10 yards farther".  Different golfers will gap better with strong lofts, others won't.  Its not strictly bad.  Its a marketing gimmick but its not a fake one because they are not increasing the shaft length.  That's why his comment is both ignorant and condescending.  They didn't cross out a 6 and write a 7.  The club is still a half-inch shorter, and swing-weighted accordingly.  That matters.


Take a look at the cobra speedzones. There may be some ignorance in your logic as well. 

6BB333C9-A7B6-43C7-A848-C86ED1FF671B.png

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3 hours ago, toddyc said:


Take a look at the cobra speedzones. There may be some ignorance in your logic as well. 

6BB333C9-A7B6-43C7-A848-C86ED1FF671B.png

I love how there is 2° difference between the 4 and 5 iron but 5.5° or 6° gaps between the scoring clubs. These clubs are two clubs stronger lofts than mine and those shaft lengths are not exactly short relative to the lofts. 

 

So ignoring the number stamped on the bottom of the club (as the pro jacked loft crowd always tell us) you could say that I just play 24-48° (6-GW) but it's not the same. The big loft increments mean you get from the 24° club to the 48° in six clubs instead of 7.

 

Speed zones vs MP58s

24/24

27.5/27

32/31

37/35

42.5/39

48/43

54/47

Cobra King F9  Driver 10.5° Atmos Blue 6 stiff
17° Callaway X Hot 4 wood
20.5°& 23° Cleveland DST Launcher hybrids
Mizuno MP58 4-PW irons
Cleveland RTX 2 52°/10°, RTX 3 58°/9°
Ping Anser Sigma 2 putter

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19 hours ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

How else should I have read his use of "magic elixir" ?  It sure seemed like he was telling people how to think.

 

Shaft length is the other variable, and that really matters.  The shorter the shaft the easier the club is to hit.  You could just as easily say "my 37 inch club now goes 10 yards farther" than "my 7 goes 10 yards farther".  Different golfers will gap better with strong lofts, others won't.  Its not strictly bad.  Its a marketing gimmick but its not a fake one because they are not increasing the shaft length.  That's why his comment is both ignorant and condescending.  They didn't cross out a 6 and write a 7.  The club is still a half-inch shorter, and swing-weighted accordingly.  That matters.

It's not just about loft and length.

 

Todays ball, along with shaft choices & their playing characteristics are flat out incredible compared our old reliable standard steel Dynamic shaft of 30 years ago  TT Dynamics were pretty much it for most of us other than the crap shafts that Ping used.  The balls should get a little credit here as well because it's night and day when comparing the old ProTrajectory to a ProV1 or Bridgestone.

 

I'm 63 years old and have played through the transition years into todays technology. I put a set of KBS Tour 90's into a old set of Ping Zings this year set at standard length and they are pretty darn close to my Ping G15 series in distance.

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12 hours ago, Shilgy said:

I am not an absolute believer in the 4* gapping. What matters is carry gapping imo. Varies by player in that set of clubs.

 

Just to provide contrast....  🙂

 

I'm not a believer in having even distance gaps between irons at the top of the set (knowing the gaps is important obviously).  I tend to worry more about the overall range of distance covered by the iron set.  I'm not fond of having 9 irons where 8 will get the job done.  Provided unmanageable gaps aren't created, of course.

 

I don't believe it's important to maintain a 12 yd gap between my longest irons.  That sort of precision at the 190 and up part of the bag doesn't seem reasonable to me.

 

I tend to keep my irons at 4* gaps for the most part, covering 21* to 53* with nine clubs, before adding a 58* wedge at the bottom.  Or, using FG17 lofts as example, I would prefer 18* to 50* in even gaps, instead of 17/20/23/26 and 4* from there to 50*.  That gives me nine clubs over the full range, where in the past there would be ten.  Allows the addition of an extra wedge at the bottom of the bag, if one is so inclined.

 

And I'm obviously not quibbling over 17* vs 18*.  LOL

 

Just an alternative view.  Obviously, everyone's mileage may vary.  🙂

 

Edited by NRJyzr
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The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft pending); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, DGS400; Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Ram Watson Scoring System 55*, DGX 7i shaft; Ram TG-898, DGS400; Ram TG-898, NV105 S; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS300; Ram 1982 Commemorative Nickel 58*, Dynamic S; Ram TW282, DGS; Ram TW276, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 58*, Dynamic S; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, DGS400; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, NV105 S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional or TaylorMade TP5

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9 hours ago, toddyc said:


Take a look at the cobra speedzones. There may be some ignorance in your logic as well. 

6BB333C9-A7B6-43C7-A848-C86ED1FF671B.png

 

Of course you can find irons out there of different lengths.  The OP posted a link comparing very specific irons.  None were these Cobra irons.  I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.

PXG x0811 10.5* -.5" Kuro Kage Dual Core Silver 60TX

Ping G30 3w stock regular -2" 3h 4h stock stiff

Bridgestone j40 5-LW x100

Taylormade Spider X

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37 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Of course you can find irons out there of different lengths.  The OP posted a link comparing very specific irons.  None were these Cobra irons.  I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.

The discussion was blades vs newer clubs. These irons a direct refutation of your theorizing about length to loft ratio. While correct in mizuno's case it is not correct across the board. So nobody is a "bozo" for pointing out the tactic some manufacturers are using to sell new clubs

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10 minutes ago, toddyc said:

The discussion was blades vs newer clubs. These irons a direct refutation of your theorizing about length to loft ratio. While correct in mizuno's case it is not correct across the board. So nobody is a "bozo" for pointing out the tactic some manufacturers are using to sell new clubs

 

Its not a "direct refutation" of anything.  Its somewhat sad you actually spent time on google trying to find an iron set with which to "prove" this.  The point isn't that there is no iron set in the world that boosts lengths along with decreasing lofts.  The point is that there are now a million choices in the world where before there was just one (traditional lofts).  More choice is always better.  That's why people who decry loft creep are bozos - because its like yelling and screaming that you don't like the color of a new car model while you can still get the old color too.  Its just noise.  There are people with slower swing speeds who gap better with strong lofts.  Its a fact.  People don't like that these irons help some (but not all) people for some reason.  Its really weird.  Then this same exact crowd (same users) all post "hey man, its all about what works!!!" in other threads.  Its all about what works, unless its stronger lofts that work, in which case its a gimmick.

 

Edit -

 

I play with fairly traditional lofts, but I demo'd a set recently for two weeks that were much stronger.  It was interesting.  Ultimately I didn't like them since I found it too hard to take a little off the mid-irons which is something I need to do when the wind roars off the gulf.  But they were perfectly playable irons and I have no doubt with a few months i'd hit them just as good as my j40s, even though the 7 iron was 3.5* strong (34 to 30.5).  This whole thing is just an excuse for a certain group to feel smug that they know what real irons are and everyone else is getting fooled.

Edited by pinestreetgolf

PXG x0811 10.5* -.5" Kuro Kage Dual Core Silver 60TX

Ping G30 3w stock regular -2" 3h 4h stock stiff

Bridgestone j40 5-LW x100

Taylormade Spider X

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24 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Its not a "direct refutation" of anything.  Its somewhat sad you actually spent time on google trying to find an iron set with which to "prove" this.  The point isn't that there is no iron set in the world that boosts lengths along with decreasing lofts.  The point is that there are now a million choices in the world where before there was just one (traditional lofts).  More choice is always better.  That's why people who decry loft creep are bozos - because its like yelling and screaming that you don't like the color of a new car model while you can still get the old color too.  Its just noise.  There are people with slower swing speeds who gap better with strong lofts.  Its a fact.  People don't like that these irons help some (but not all) people for some reason.  Its really weird.  Then this same exact crowd (same users) all post "hey man, its all about what works!!!" in other threads.  Its all about what works, unless its stronger lofts that work, in which case its a gimmick.

 

Edit -

 

I play with fairly traditional lofts, but I demo'd a set recently for two weeks that were much stronger.  It was interesting.  Ultimately I didn't like them since I found it too hard to take a little off the mid-irons which is something I need to do when the wind roars off the gulf.  But they were perfectly playable irons and I have no doubt with a few months i'd hit them just as good as my j40s, even though the 7 iron was 3.5* strong (34 to 30.5).  This whole thing is just an excuse for a certain group to feel smug that they know what real irons are and everyone else is getting fooled.

Irons like this aren't hard to find. You can deny it and misdirect the discussion all you want but you are wrong about this. Just being the most obnoxious won't convince anyone

Edited by toddyc
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6 hours ago, kiwihacker said:

I love how there is 2° difference between the 4 and 5 iron but 5.5° or 6° gaps between the scoring clubs. These clubs are two clubs stronger lofts than mine and those shaft lengths are not exactly short relative to the lofts. 

 

So ignoring the number stamped on the bottom of the club (as the pro jacked loft crowd always tell us) you could say that I just play 24-48° (6-GW) but it's not the same. The big loft increments mean you get from the 24° club to the 48° in six clubs instead of 7.

 

Speed zones vs MP58s

24/24

27.5/27

32/31

37/35

42.5/39

48/43

54/47

Exactly. Its hard to believe this is done purely in the interest of helping high handicappers play better. What high capper needs a 19 degree iron

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9 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Come on man.  The name calling nullifies even a hint of any point you’re wanting to make. So why do it ? 
 

 

 

the TRUTH is..... when a 5 iron is 22 degrees it’s not a “ 5” iron.     ( for example ).   If they want to be honest they’d print lofts on all irons.   Then folks would see that the 5 iron they have trouble hitting now is yesterday’s 3 irons they had trouble hitting then. 

 

You beat me to it.  🙂

 

The whole point of equipment discussions on golf forums is to learn about equipment.  There's a lot of BS floated out there by OEMs.  Not everyone wants to drink the koolaid.  And folks pointing it out aren't trying to harsh anyone's mellow, or wallow in smugness, or any other crap like that.

 

Ultimately, club numbers don't matter.  It's about covering the lofts, and the distances we all produce with those lofts.

 

Edited by NRJyzr
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The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft pending); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, DGS400; Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Ram Watson Scoring System 55*, DGX 7i shaft; Ram TG-898, DGS400; Ram TG-898, NV105 S; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS300; Ram 1982 Commemorative Nickel 58*, Dynamic S; Ram TW282, DGS; Ram TW276, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 58*, Dynamic S; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, DGS400; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, NV105 S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional or TaylorMade TP5

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3 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

 

Ultimately, club numbers don't matter.  It's about covering the lofts, and the distances we all produce with those lofts.

 

 

Exactly.  So why do you guys care so much what number is there if it doesn't matter?

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Ping G30 3w stock regular -2" 3h 4h stock stiff

Bridgestone j40 5-LW x100

Taylormade Spider X

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On 11/18/2020 at 8:26 AM, Hogan9 said:

This has been happening for decades. Cobra was one of the first to offer stronger lofts with their King Cobra irons. I have a set of Ping Eye 2 irons and the lofts are much weaker than most of todays iron sets. My question is: does it really matter? I know many people equate distance with overall golf ability. There's no question bombing the ball out there off the tee is an advantage. However as Hogan once said how far one hits an iron is not as important as how close to the flag. 

We all love to tell our buddies we hit a six iron into #7 knowing they had to play a five from the same spot. However, if they made three and I made four; it really didn't matter. I think  knowing how far and how close you can hit each iron  in your bag no matter the loft is what's really important.

First off I no longer tell anyone what iron I’m hitting into a green . Call it my 150 club and so on. And if pressed I will but with the fact it’s a strong lofted. At 61 I don’t care about hitting my number longer than them. 

Second : I remember when Cobra brought out those clubs. A lot of people went to them. I believe they had a 45 degree PW. That was in the days of the 49 degree or higher PW. 
  Pinestreetgolf has it right.

Edited by NoTalentLefty
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Driver Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 set to 9.5
3 Wood Epic Flash set to 16 degrees
3-5 Hybrids Epic Flash 18 20 23 degrees
6 hybrid Big Bertha 26 degree 
7-AW Callaway Mavrik Irons 
50 degree GW Vokey SM7
56 degree SW Vokey SM7
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15 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Exactly.  So why do you guys care so much what number is there if it doesn't matter?

 

It's in my post.  Some practices on the part of OEMs are disingenuous to deceptive.  

 

If you really believed it doesn't matter, why do you only go stronger with your lofts?

 

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The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft pending); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, DGS400; Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Ram Watson Scoring System 55*, DGX 7i shaft; Ram TG-898, DGS400; Ram TG-898, NV105 S; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS300; Ram 1982 Commemorative Nickel 58*, Dynamic S; Ram TW282, DGS; Ram TW276, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 58*, Dynamic S; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, DGS400; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, NV105 S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional or TaylorMade TP5

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I can give you my reason for golfing with stronger lofts. Not so much the loft itself but for gapping. Many clubs start with 4 degree at the top. My game at my speed and age requires at least 5 degree before I get a 10 yard gap. Starting with AW in my set is 46 my PW is 41. It goes that way until the 9 then it starts to go 4 1/2. I can still get the 10 yard gap as of right now. I admit I can no longer hit anything below 26 degree in an iron. Go to hybrids for that which are 3 degree apart and it still gives me gaps of 10+. 
I would love a set to come out with a 5 degree gap in all the irons but realize the better player needs less degrees between clubs for their gapping. But as I say I don’t . 
  We’re all different and at different stages in our game. Standards on golf clubs have been changing for quite awhile. If you got a 47 degree wedge in your bag and think that’s standard I’d remind you that when I started anything under fifty was considered strong. My first really good set I had a 49 degree , within a 2 year period cobra came out with the first 45 degree. And that was in the early 90s.

  Also I’ve never hit a seven iron as high as I do my 27 degree 7 iron , why older sets had a 27 degree 5 iron that I couldn’t hit as high when my game was at its best. 
  I’m not club designer and most of you are not either, but damn that 27 degree GI can get a lot of height and bite hard on a green. 
   In all this I praise the GIs with a those damn cheater lofts. 
  

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Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

Driver Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 set to 9.5
3 Wood Epic Flash set to 16 degrees
3-5 Hybrids Epic Flash 18 20 23 degrees
6 hybrid Big Bertha 26 degree 
7-AW Callaway Mavrik Irons 
50 degree GW Vokey SM7
56 degree SW Vokey SM7
Odyssey White Hot V-Line Fang

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1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Come on man.  The name calling nullifies even a hint of any point you’re wanting to make. So why do it ? 
 

 

 

the TRUTH is..... when a 5 iron is 22 degrees it’s not a “ 5” iron.     ( for example ).   If they want to be honest they’d print lofts on all irons.   Then folks would see that the 5 iron they have trouble hitting now is yesterday’s 3 irons they had trouble hitting then. 

Geez, all of this trash talking in so many threads from so many posters. No offense Blade it’s just your post I used to quote.

 

WTF (who instead of what for the first word) cares what it’s called? All of this holier than thou comments about a true 5 iron loft or whatever. Every player needs a 100 yard club....and a 180 yard club and points in between and above. WTF cares what they choose to call it?  Rather than club number or loft each player should just know he has his gaps covered.  If, on the top end, he carries a 5 hybrid and a sgi 5 iron and a traditional lofted 5 iron and that suits his needs again I say who cares?
Everyone is waaaay to hung up on what other people choose to play for equipment.  If Blade and I play and he hits his Miura or Blueprint or whatever he’s playing this week 7 iron and I hit a soon to arrive p790 7 iron do I think that makes me as long as Blade? No. Do I care? No. We each hit our 170 yard club to a foot...I tap in andBlade misses I win the hole lol.  2 beats 3. A comparison of loft in the irons has nothing to do with this game.

 

Rant over. image.png.7490f6bf8090460c81da6c2dedee0b34.png

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Just now, Shilgy said:

Geez, all of this trash talking in so many threads from so many posters. No offense Blade it’s just your post I used to quote.

 

WTF (who instead of what for the first word) cares what it’s called? All of this holier than thou comments about a true 5 iron loft or whatever. Every player needs a 100 yard club....and a 180 yard club and points in between and above. WTF cares what they choose to call it?  Rather than club number or loft each player should just know he has his gaps covered.  If, on the top end, he carries a 5 hybrid and a sgi 5 iron and a traditional lofted 5 iron and that suits his needs again I say who cares?
Everyone is waaaay to hung up on what other people choose to play for equipment.  If Blade and I play and he hits his Miura or Blueprint or whatever he’s playing this week 7 iron and I hit a soon to arrive p790 7 iron do I think that makes me as long as Blade? No. Do I care? No. We each hit our 170 yard club to a foot...I tap in andBlade misses I win the hole lol.  2 beats 3. A comparison of loft in the irons has nothing to do with this game.

 

Rant over. image.png.7490f6bf8090460c81da6c2dedee0b34.png

None taken 

 

I think my personal frustrations  come from the couple  regulars I play with ( play with around 25 so this is a super minority) who insist on crowing about how far their irons go.  And in turn will actually ask me “ why don’t you get something you can hit “.    This is said even if they’re loosing.  What they mean is hit farther.     If they were actually hitting it farther it wouldn’t gripe me.  But the fact that it’s a rooster illusion drives my practical mind nuts.  They are not hitting it farther.  They just have more “ wedges “.  Lol.  
 

so yes. I’m all for the type iron choices.  I just hate the lies printed on the bottom of the club.    To me ( read -me ) it’s just as intellectually dishonest as if they were printing 49 degrees on the bottom of a 42 degree PW.   My opinion.  

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For those who can’t get over the fact that some of us have a 27 drgree 7 iron , this son, is for you.

 

 

Edited by NoTalentLefty
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Livin' proof that Lefties are not naturally talented.

Driver Callaway Epic Flash 10.5 set to 9.5
3 Wood Epic Flash set to 16 degrees
3-5 Hybrids Epic Flash 18 20 23 degrees
6 hybrid Big Bertha 26 degree 
7-AW Callaway Mavrik Irons 
50 degree GW Vokey SM7
56 degree SW Vokey SM7
Odyssey White Hot V-Line Fang

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What'll the next wedge that fits the gap between Gap Wedge and Pitching Wedge be called? If it's not already here it's coming soon.

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JBeam Bullet 10*          Fujikura Ventus Black 6X

Exotics CBX119 3WD   Accra Tour Z RPG 372 M5

Exotics CBX119 5WD   Accra Tour Z RPG 382 M5

Exotics CB2 7WD         Accra TZ5-85 M5
TaylorMade V-Steel 9WD   Accra TZ5-85 M5
MIURA CB57 6-PW  MCI MMT-125TX (SSx1)
MIURA Tour Milled 52 56 60 MMT-125TX Scoring Wedge

Bettinardi Tour DASS Minovai Flowneck Prototype

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On 11/18/2020 at 10:15 AM, bladehunter said:

Preach. !!!! The Vcog is quite high on most when compared to most MB irons of the 90s.     It’s an eye opener.  I’ve been in this trap myself.  Try to buy the latest to “ hit it higher “ and “ make the game easier “.  
 

what I got was a lower ball flight and worse scores.  Lower spin is harder to control.  Fact.  We know this from eons of driver testing.  So a lower spinning 7 iron is going to be less accurate than the higher spinning 6 iron equivalent.  And so on.  
 

the reason handicaps aren’t dropping is because people are playing irons that are harder to control , all in the name of distance.   Control is the game. Not distance with an iron.  And I’m not preaching MB. There are many many quality CBs out there that will provide toe strike help and at the same time spin the ball enough to control it. 

Another reason HI's aren't dropping is that golf is a hard game. It's been around for 500 plus years and still nobody has figured out how to simplify the golf swing. Apparently sending men to the moon, inventing computers, performing heart transplants, etc., is easier. 

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17 minutes ago, NoTalentLefty said:

For those who can’t get over the fact that some of us have a 27 drgree 7 iron , this son, is for you.

 

 

 

Odd how you and others prefer to demonize those who don't like what the OEMs are doing.  

 

The Ever Changing Bag!  A lot of mixing and matching
Driver: TM Original One 11.5* set to 10*, Aldila RIP Alpha 80 X, 43.5"
3w:  Cobra King LTD, Matrix 8m3 X, 42"
Hybrid:  TaylorMade Stage 2 Tour, NV105 S or DGS400

Irons grab bag:  3-PW Mizuno MP37, Recoil Proto 125 F4 (reshaft pending); 1-PW Golden Ram TW282 or Vibration Matched Golden Rams, RIP Tour 115 R (coin flipping for the reshaft project); 1i & 3-PW Golden Ram TW276, NV105 S
Wedges:  Dynacraft Dual Millled 52*, DGS400; Scratch 8620 DD 53*, SteelFiber i125 S; Ram Watson Scoring System 55*, DGX 7i shaft; Ram TG-898, DGS400; Ram TG-898, NV105 S; Wilson Staff PMP 58*, DGS300; Ram 1982 Commemorative Nickel 58*, Dynamic S; Ram TW282, DGS; Ram TW276, DGS; Ram Troon Grind 58*, Dynamic S; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, DGS400; Maltby Design 60* mid sole, NV105 S
Putter:  Snake Eyes Viper Tour Sv1, 34"
Balls: Wilson Staff Duo Professional or TaylorMade TP5

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27 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

None taken 

 

I think my personal frustrations  come from the couple  regulars I play with ( play with around 25 so this is a super minority) who insist on crowing about how far their irons go.  And in turn will actually ask me “ why don’t you get something you can hit “.    This is said even if they’re loosing.  What they mean is hit farther.     If they were actually hitting it farther it wouldn’t gripe me.  But the fact that it’s a rooster illusion drives my practical mind nuts.  They are not hitting it farther.  They just have more “ wedges “.  Lol.  
 

so yes. I’m all for the type iron choices.  I just hate the lies printed on the bottom of the club.    To me ( read -me ) it’s just as intellectually dishonest as if they were printing 49 degrees on the bottom of a 42 degree PW.   My opinion.  

 

There is nothing written in stone that defines a 5 iron.  Same with woods.  I was toying around with getting a 9 wood and looked at eBay.  My current woods go 10.5, 14.5, 18, 21°.  I last two are 917F and they don't have a club number; just the loft. I assumed that corresponded to 5w and 7w.  So, I look on eBay for a 24° wood.  The new ones are labeled 9w and the older ones are labeled 7w or even strong 7w.  


I played FG17 irons for years and hundreds of rounds.  They are two full clubs weaker than my G400 irons. I could just pick up an FG17 iron and tell what club it was just just by looking at its loft.  Every time I hit my G400 8 iron it looks like a 6 iron to me.  Same loft of 34°.  From that perspective, I could say many of folks today with blades are playing dishonest clubs.  The industry moves on.  It's still the score that counts.  Every now and then I'll play with a guy using blades who can't understand why he outdrives me but I'm hitting the same or less club into the green.  I'll explain about how my irons are stronger lofted but just get back deer in the headlights response.  

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