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MtlJeff
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1 hour ago, Tempo tempo said:

As a longtime teaching pro, you have great tempo and your move works.

This feels like the answer to me and I don't know nearly that much about golf.

 

I do know that I see tons of really good pros swing through the decades and lots swing very different than others but are still great players. I see some videos of guys from the 70s and that swing style isn't even around today...but they were good...so isn't it all about consistent striking/club face at impact?

 

I'd like to know if you shape your iron shots and that sort of thing or you just are dead consistent with distance and ball flight.

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8 hours ago, pktaske said:

This feels like the answer to me and I don't know nearly that much about golf.

 

I do know that I see tons of really good pros swing through the decades and lots swing very different than others but are still great players. I see some videos of guys from the 70s and that swing style isn't even around today...but they were good...so isn't it all about consistent striking/club face at impact?

 

I'd like to know if you shape your iron shots and that sort of thing or you just are dead consistent with distance and ball flight.

 

I don't really shape all that much. My natural shot is a small draw but it's become a bit more straight over the past couple of years. I can hit a big draw fairly easily, struggle to hit fades consistently as they are mostly weak, fan type shots when i try

 

Mostly i try to play my stock shot whenever possible

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17 hours ago, DShepley said:

"Golf is what the ball does!"......There are no places to put pictures on the scorecard, just enough room to write a number.....It doesn't matter how the swing looks as long as it is repeatable.....how many more bastardized cliches should I list?  I play near scratch as well and every winter I head to the indoor range and chase swing improvement and spend the springtime wondering why I am worse...then, come end of June start of July, I start to play well again because I don't practice anymore and just go play....I revert back to my normal pattern and I've gotten pretty good over the years of figuring out how to get the ball to go where I want it.  Bottom line.....you play near scratch, judging by the videos, you don't lack for ball speed...not saying that there couldn't be more in the tank, but....focus on the issues where you are losing strokes.  Most likely that will be inside 150 yards or through course management errors.  Bottom line, have fun because you have gotten to a level that almost most will never achieve...don't add strife by trying to rebuild anything.  Make small improvements that don't lead you down a rabbit hole of regret and disappointment...

 

In "The Big Miss" Hank Haney talks about how long it would take for Tiger to get a swing change into tournament play.  He said something to the effect that the change would first work while practicing and then while playing casual rounds and then in tournament practice rounds and then in tournament rounds.  These were very small changes that most folks would not be able to detect and the first changes that they worked on resulted in a rather long dry spell in Tiger's game where he actually fell to number two in the world rankings behind VJ Singh.  

 

In my experience making a swing change for the better for instance while taking lessons is very difficult because I cannot seem to get the changes from the practice tee to the first tee.  I end up reverting back to something that 'works'.  A couple of years ago I spent a year and half getting lessons from an excellent teacher and never really learned lesson one.  I could do the swing fairly well while he was teaching me but would lose it the moment I walked out the door.

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FYI, someone had asked about a more face-on view where you could see the hands. This is the best i could do using a chair. Sorry it's not the best videography here. 

 

Also i took another one of some drivers. Because everyone likes the big dog. 

 

I promise these will be the last videos i subject you innocent people to

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

FYI, someone had asked about a more face-on view where you could see the hands. This is the best i could do using a chair. Sorry it's not the best videography here. 

 

Also i took another one of some drivers. Because everyone likes the big dog. 

 

I promise these will be the last videos i subject you innocent people to

 

 

 

@MtlJeff have a look at Dollarama for a phone holder.  I picked up one like this for $4.00 that I clamp to my bag when I am at the range.

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I wouldn't would not mess with that at all.

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Yeah, I wouldn't mess with anything at all.

 

But jeez dude, indoors ? If can't be much under 20* or so there yet, can it ? :classic_laugh:

 

As blade alluded to, personally *I* think of a waggle as something much smaller, maybe a foot or 2. That's why I think blade though of it as a rehearsal of the takeaway. But what's in a word ?

 

I have to laugh though. A friend of mine, about a mid-teens capper wanted to a) hit it farther and b) hit a draw. So we got him on an indoor launch monitor to teach him to hit "out".

 

He got the hang of it (a draw) here and there but always ended his swing with his hands slightly in front of him and a bit above shoulder high, the usual(?) ending to most player's 3/4 swing. We tried to get him to swing all the way through to a full finish. He just couldn't do it. But when he ended "his" swing, he'd then, too late, extend it to a full finish. It was kinda funny to watch.

 

I see just a touch of this in your swings although you get much further towards a full finish than he ever could with your hands pretty much wrapped around your neck. You're pretty much done,,,,,,, and then move just a touch more. :classic_smile:

 

But I'm a results oriented kinda guy. And not nearly an instructor so I wouldn't change a thing. 👍

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2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

Yeah, I wouldn't mess with anything at all.

 

But jeez dude, indoors ? If can't be much under 20* or so there yet, can it ? :classic_laugh:

 

As blade alluded to, personally *I* think of a waggle as something much smaller, maybe a foot or 2. That's why I think blade though of it as a rehearsal of the takeaway. But what's in a word ?

 

I have to laugh though. A friend of mine, about a mid-teens capper wanted to a) hit it farther and b) hit a draw. So we got him on an indoor launch monitor to teach him to hit "out".

 

He got the hang of it (a draw) here and there but always ended his swing with his hands slightly in front of him and a bit above shoulder high, the usual(?) ending to most player's 3/4 swing. We tried to get him to swing all the way through to a full finish. He just couldn't do it. But when he ended "his" swing, he'd then, too late, extend it to a full finish. It was kinda funny to watch.

 

I see just a touch of this in your swings although you get much further towards a full finish than he ever could with your hands pretty much wrapped around your neck. You're pretty much done,,,,,,, and then move just a touch more. :classic_smile:

 

But I'm a results oriented kinda guy. And not nearly an instructor so I wouldn't change a thing. 👍

 

Haha, we're covered in snow here man! It was like 5C today so definitely the type of weather i'd play golf in....except we're under quite a bit of snow

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You have a really good hip turn on the way back making it very easy to deliver the club into the back of the ball. Tiger is actually trying to get a hip turn as good as yours. 

Your lead arm straightens or slightly hyperextends before impact which makes it easy to generate clubhead speed. Dustin Johnson does this.

You fold the club up post impact which I like. McIlroy and Snead do this. Although this is up for debate. Many coaches talk about extension, keeping the club in a straight line with the arms for as long as possible but I think this puts pressure on the body and can lead to army golf.

There are still things you could do better but as some have said you might not want to go down that rabbit hole.

Even though you don't have a classic swing you actually do some things really well, probably even better than someone with a better looking swing might not do.

 

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Full backswing body pivot with decent angles both hips and torso.     Camera too slow to show club head in downswing but given cap assume you manage face to path well.   Main power source is upper body and full body extension, ie EE similar to joe Miller.      Repeatability.

 

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You can always get better is the way I look at it, just depends if that’s what you want. You’re posting your swing so guessing you want to improve? I play with a guy occasionally and he has some similar swing faults as you but plays to scratch, however, his hand eye coordination is excellent, plays a ton and he is very competitive. His short game and putting is also off the charts crazy good, I learned a bit from him there. He gets up and down pretty much from everywhere and it saves him to be a scratch player. I do think he would be even better if he got some proper swing instruction.

 

I know your pretty sensitive on your swing but you just have the classic amateur faults, it’s nothing new. On backswing you roll the club inside, lead arm separates from body and your arms overswing. Downswing, you throw the club and stand up with no body rotation to square the face. Pretty much every amateur has similar faults. 

 

 

Edited by Redjeep83
He’s left handed, had right handed references
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On 11/26/2020 at 6:41 PM, freowho said:

You have a really good hip turn on the way back making it very easy to deliver the club into the back of the ball. Tiger is actually trying to get a hip turn as good as yours. 

Your lead arm straightens or slightly hyperextends before impact which makes it easy to generate clubhead speed. Dustin Johnson does this.

You fold the club up post impact which I like. McIlroy and Snead do this. Although this is up for debate. Many coaches talk about extension, keeping the club in a straight line with the arms for as long as possible but I think this puts pressure on the body and can lead to army golf.

There are still things you could do better but as some have said you might not want to go down that rabbit hole.

Even though you don't have a classic swing you actually do some things really well, probably even better than someone with a better looking swing might not do.

 

 

Thanks a lot for the comments! 

 

Yeah it's like i mentioned i'm probably past the point where i would want to try to re-do my swing with a real overhaul. I definitely know i have some faults which is why i don't find it looks particularly great (at least IMO). But really i was just curious about what i must be doing well in order to play good golf. I really don't know a lot of technical stuff about the swing

 

Like i heard once that Furyk for example keeps his clubface square longer than anyone else on tour ( I guess they measured this) , so despite how odd his swing looks there is something that he does incredibly well

 

I figured i must put myself in some kind of position , or i'm compensating athletically somehow etc...So was curious

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1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

You can always get better is the way I look at it, just depends if that’s what you want. You’re posting your swing so guessing you want to improve? I play with a guy occasionally and he has some similar swing faults as you but plays to scratch, however, his hand eye coordination is excellent, plays a ton and he is very competitive. His short game and putting is also off the charts crazy good, I learned a bit from him there. He gets up and down pretty much from everywhere and it saves him to be a scratch player. I do think he would be even better if he got some proper swing instruction.

 

I know your pretty sensitive on your swing but you just have the classic amateur faults, it’s nothing new. On backswing you roll the club inside, lead arm separates from body and your arms overswing. Downswing, you throw the club and stand up with no body rotation to square the face. Pretty much every amateur has similar faults. 

 

 

 

I'm not sure how much i can improve at this point truthfully. I'm 39 and with work and travel (assuming we can ever travel again...) i'm not sure i could commit to the time it would take to really implement something new and get better. This might be as good as i ever get which i suppose is fine. At times i consider starting lessons with a really good pro i know who was a Canadian tour player back in the day. But as others have suggested, i am also kind of scared about getting worse if it doesn't pan out

 

I agree with you that if i had started younger (i started at 23) and took lessons from the get-go i'd probably have a higher ceiling than i do now. 

 

I think the "arm rolling" thing is what i find so ugly about my swing. To be honest i don't even really notice the impact position stuff , but i'm also not really looking for it because i don't know enough about it

 

Hope things are going well with you and the things you were working on

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4 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I'm not sure how much i can improve at this point truthfully. I'm 39 and with work and travel (assuming we can ever travel again...) i'm not sure i could commit to the time it would take to really implement something new and get better. This might be as good as i ever get which i suppose is fine. At times i consider starting lessons with a really good pro i know who was a Canadian tour player back in the day. But as others have suggested, i am also kind of scared about getting worse if it doesn't pan out

 

I agree with you that if i had started younger (i started at 23) and took lessons from the get-go i'd probably have a higher ceiling than i do now. 

 

I think the "arm rolling" thing is what i find so ugly about my swing. To be honest i don't even really notice the impact position stuff , but i'm also not really looking for it because i don't know enough about it

 

Hope things are going well with you and the things you were working on

I got to my lowest index ever this summer at 59 so you can definitely improve if you can find the time to commit.  You have the advantage of only needing small tweaks rather than a complete overhaul.  Based on other threads, you might just need putting work to drop a stroke or two.

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2 hours ago, Redjeep83 said:

You can always get better is the way I look at it, just depends if that’s what you want. You’re posting your swing so guessing you want to improve? I play with a guy occasionally and he has some similar swing faults as you but plays to scratch, however, his hand eye coordination is excellent, plays a ton and he is very competitive. His short game and putting is also off the charts crazy good, I learned a bit from him there. He gets up and down pretty much from everywhere and it saves him to be a scratch player. I do think he would be even better if he got some proper swing instruction.

 

I know your pretty sensitive on your swing but you just have the classic amateur faults, it’s nothing new. On backswing you roll the club inside, lead arm separates from body and your arms overswing. Downswing, you throw the club and stand up with no body rotation to square the face. Pretty much every amateur has similar faults. 

 

 

 

Redjeep83, I can relate to these faults. What would you say is the opposite? One piece takeaway, stay connected and downswing: swing from the ground up?  

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3 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I got to my lowest index ever this summer at 59 so you can definitely improve if you can find the time to commit.  You have the advantage of only needing small tweaks rather than a complete overhaul.  Based on other threads, you might just need putting work to drop a stroke or two.

 

Yeah i'd probably try that route first before any major swing changes. I do have some time in the mornings with my new job so i can probably dedicate 20-25 minutes a couple of times a week just to short game and putting. 

 

My game is pretty balanced. Biggest strength is probably that i can hit it 260-270 off the tee and hit a lot of fairways. I can go multiple rounds without losing balls. That plus some solid striking and you can rack up a lot of 76's

 

If i can become an awesome putter, that would also help a lot

 

 

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30 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I'm not sure how much i can improve at this point truthfully. I'm 39 and with work and travel (assuming we can ever travel again...) i'm not sure i could commit to the time it would take to really implement something new and get better. This might be as good as i ever get which i suppose is fine. At times i consider starting lessons with a really good pro i know who was a Canadian tour player back in the day. But as others have suggested, i am also kind of scared about getting worse if it doesn't pan out

 

I agree with you that if i had started younger (i started at 23) and took lessons from the get-go i'd probably have a higher ceiling than i do now. 

 

I think the "arm rolling" thing is what i find so ugly about my swing. To be honest i don't even really notice the impact position stuff , but i'm also not really looking for it because i don't know enough about it

 

Hope things are going well with you and the things you were working on


As we get older it’s more about having efficient swing so that we create speed easier with less strain on the body. I wouldn’t be worried about getting worse at all unless your playing for a living. Best bet if you did want to is finding an instructor and practicing what they prescribe. 

 

21 minutes ago, Tanner25 said:

 

Redjeep83, I can relate to these faults. What would you say is the opposite? One piece takeaway, stay connected and downswing: swing from the ground up?  


Start with basic fundamentals, grip/stance, posture. Make sure it’s all legit and go from there which might clean up some. 
 

Opposite would be less wrist roll on takeaway, keep club in front of you. Maintain width and club in front, especially at top without over swinging which will help with keeping the arm structure (less throw out to square face) and getting open on downswing. Then might need a little lower body work to get better weight shift.  A good instructor would be best bet, IMO. Hard to do this stuff by yourself if you haven’t first learned it in person.

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1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Yeah i'd probably try that route first before any major swing changes. I do have some time in the mornings with my new job so i can probably dedicate 20-25 minutes a couple of times a week just to short game and putting. 

 

My game is pretty balanced. Biggest strength is probably that i can hit it 260-270 off the tee and hit a lot of fairways. I can go multiple rounds without losing balls. That plus some solid striking and you can rack up a lot of 76's

 

If i can become an awesome putter, that would also help a lot

 

 

Changes take time and are incremental.  Only a poor teacher would attempt a massive change in short time.   I started with monte at 64 and took 2 and a half years to see consistent significant changes - I played to a 5 with a flat to steep swing, ee, flip release and my first lesson was solely on setup.    I have continued to refine but I jumped to a 2 without really any investment short game putting.   Between monte , iteach  I had around 10 or so lessons in these past 6 years. I went from 230-240 driver to 260+ and at 70 now I still carry 8i 155.     At 39 you have years and years and years.

 

 
here is a guy that has been working with Shauheen since July of this year online!  Tab to see progress but this one photo tells the big differenceA2B18164-AD06-4F46-9166-AA48A9E0D7EA.jpeg.bfbca5d6bc5fda2dddffa15585fdfda1.jpeg

 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CH3g1pPpNeV/

 

 

 

 

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On 11/25/2020 at 4:54 PM, MtlJeff said:

I was a big fan of "The Office". There's a really funny scene where in one season, Michael Scott's branch is doing very well in sales , despite his idiocy. So the CFO comes to visit him and asks him plainly, "Michael, i don't know how else to say this, but what is it that you are doing right?"

 

This is how i feel about my swing. I don't like looking at it on video, It actually used to look a lot nicer....i generally look at it now the way women do when they are tagged in Facebook pictures and didn't have a chance to pose. I'm like "UNTAG ME, I WASNT READY!!!"....I have a weird backswing i find, like my takeaway does not look like a low index takeaway. I also have an unorthodox follow-through that is reminiscent of Paul Goydos, which is not a compliment. I have also been told i come through the ball weird....So i mean, that's pretty much 0 for 3 

 

Nevertheless, i am a 0.6 right now and have hovered around this for a while, have been a 0.0 in July the past 2 years. Ive played in some big competitions and help up OK. I'm clearly doing something that works fine. I don't really know enough about the swing to know what that is. 

 

Is there something here that i am actually doing well? That is a legit question for people who understand this stuff. It's really more a curiosity, because i don't want want to change anything. But, like dunder mifflin CFO David Wallace, i would like to understand why this is working. 

 

5 irons

 

3 woods

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

I got to my lowest index ever this summer at 59 so you can definitely improve if you can find the time to commit.  You have the advantage of only needing small tweaks rather than a complete overhaul.  Based on other threads, you might just need putting work to drop a stroke or two.

Me too, and just a few moon phases older than she is (but don't play to her level, for sure).

 

Get the putting sorted out, watch the birdies accumulate, keep hitting the center of the club most of the time, that's what I like to hear! (But, there is some feeling of joy or whatever looking at a vid or a screen shot and having Monte indicate something good about it - can't deny it). Golfers need reinforcement.

 

Maybe send a vid out to Monte, or another of the other folks who people have had good experiences with on here (or both) just "on spec" to see if there is anything small that isn't a major overhaul that might resonate. You'd get some pretty honest answers I'll bet - they aren't going to take you down a path you don't need to go.

Edited by Hawkeye77
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I like your rear foot at impact. It’s not really a power move to keep it flat at impact, but it can lead to some consistent striking of the ball. 
 

The rest of your move is like Jan Levinson after getting fired... pretty crazy. 

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1 hour ago, PowderedToastMan said:

I like your rear foot at impact. It’s not really a power move to keep it flat at impact, but it can lead to some consistent striking of the ball. 
 

The rest of your move is like Jan Levinson after getting fired... pretty crazy. 

 

Her character got way better after getting fired though. Serenity by Jan , the dinner party etc...

 

I'll take it!

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What is your anti-handicap, Jeff? Meaning, do you find that your good rounds are pretty good, but your bad rounds can be really bad? Or are your bad rounds usually within 3 to 5 of the course rating, say?

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13 hours ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I'm not sure how much i can improve at this point truthfully. I'm 39 and with work and travel (assuming we can ever travel again...) i'm not sure i could commit to the time it would take to really implement something new and get better. This might be as good as i ever get which i suppose is fine. At times i consider starting lessons with a really good pro i know who was a Canadian tour player back in the day. But as others have suggested, i am also kind of scared about getting worse if it doesn't pan out

 

I agree with you that if i had started younger (i started at 23) and took lessons from the get-go i'd probably have a higher ceiling than i do now. 

 

I think the "arm rolling" thing is what i find so ugly about my swing. To be honest i don't even really notice the impact position stuff , but i'm also not really looking for it because i don't know enough about it

 

Hope things are going well with you and the things you were working on

 

When I'm healthy, I'm playing the best tournament golf of my life at 53. You can DEFINITELY improve. 

 

But what are you goals? Do you want to compete regionally? Nationally? Or are you content playing locally and with buddies, etc.?

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8 hours ago, Obee said:

What is your anti-handicap, Jeff? Meaning, do you find that your good rounds are pretty good, but your bad rounds can be really bad? Or are your bad rounds usually within 3 to 5 of the course rating, say?

 

I'm probably like a normal person of my index. I just checked my games this past season, my rounds last year had a 69 to 86 variance (the 69 was playing the mens forward tees, my lowest score other than that was 70). I had an 86 and an 84 but nothing higher than 82 other than those rounds. 

 

If you took away my 5 best and 5 worst rounds (out of ~60) my scores are basically all 72-79

 

My course is tough, like 74/140 on one 18 and 73.5/138 or so on other

Edited by MtlJeff

Callaway Mavrik 9 w/Aldila Rogue White 130MSI 60g

Callaway Epic Subzero 14 w/Aldila Rogue Max 75

Ping G400 Crossover 20 w/KBS Tour Prototype 85

Ping G410 4-SW w/ DG S300

Titleist Vokey SM8 60/8 M

SGC #002 385G

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8 hours ago, Obee said:

 

When I'm healthy, I'm playing the best tournament golf of my life at 53. You can DEFINITELY improve. 

 

But what are you goals? Do you want to compete regionally? Nationally? Or are you content playing locally and with buddies, etc.?

 

I play currently in some regional events plus all my club events. Unless i got a lot better i'd probably just stick to those. I do want to improve, i'm a competitive person....i just don't necessarily have the time. My course is 25-30 minutes from my house, and my job requires a good amount of time. I also have a 3yr old at home.

 

So mostly i can practice for 20 minutes before or after a round, and play like twice a week. Maybe go to the range once

 

I was able to go to the range so much for this thread because my company is on forced shutdown for US thanksgiving. 

 

I've mentioned it in other threads but i played college basketball, college football etc...So i love to compete. Playing in our interclub match plays here is one of my favorite events. But 3-4 tournaments a year is pushing it. They tend to be full day events, and again i have a 3yr old . So realistically it's a big demand on your time to play a ton of them

Callaway Mavrik 9 w/Aldila Rogue White 130MSI 60g

Callaway Epic Subzero 14 w/Aldila Rogue Max 75

Ping G400 Crossover 20 w/KBS Tour Prototype 85

Ping G410 4-SW w/ DG S300

Titleist Vokey SM8 60/8 M

SGC #002 385G

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29 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I play currently in some regional events plus all my club events. Unless i got a lot better i'd probably just stick to those. I do want to improve, i'm a competitive person....i just don't necessarily have the time. My course is 25-30 minutes from my house, and my job requires a good amount of time. I also have a 3yr old at home.

 

So mostly i can practice for 20 minutes before or after a round, and play like twice a week. Maybe go to the range once

 

I was able to go to the range so much for this thread because my company is on forced shutdown for US thanksgiving. 

 

I've mentioned it in other threads but i played college basketball, college football etc...So i love to compete. Playing in our interclub match plays here is one of my favorite events. But 3-4 tournaments a year is pushing it. They tend to be full day events, and again i have a 3yr old . So realistically it's a big demand on your time to play a ton of them

Shauheen Nakhjavani is located close to the Airport near an Ikea - if you want to look into what improving might entail he'd definitely be the guy in Montreal (or frankly someone for anyone to consider in person or online).     Inquiring might be worth a call or a message via his website.     At least you would gain a better understanding of what improvment would mean and how you could use your limited time to best achieve it.

 

https://nakhjavanigolf.com/

 

Edited by glk

 

Sealed with a curse as sharp as a knife.  Doomed is your soul and damned is your life.

Laugh-a while you can, monkey boy.
Enjoy every sandwich

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