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I am constantly blown away by the level of accuracy some of the poster's on this board have in terms of their strike.

 

"just a little bit more sidespin"

 

"when struck just out of the center"

 

"thinner soles give me better turf interaction" (<- it doesn't matter in an iron, by the time you strike the ground, unless you stink, the ball is already gone)

 

"sometimes, I hit the ball with exactly the same speed with my GI iron and it goes 15 yards farther carry out of nowhere!" <- physically impossible

 

I mean, are we supposed to take this seriously?  Glad the OP is having fun, everyone should play what they like, but everyone should also realize they are not nearly as perceptive as they think they are and that trackman runs literal laps around them in terms of what their equipment is doing.  I mean, you think you can eyeball "a bit" more sidespin when the average 7 iron is spinning around 18,000 RPMs for a good player?  GTFOH.

 

Edit - Before everyone pulls the usual move which is to rack up likes claiming to be a "feel player", you can't feel the difference between 17,000 RPMs and 20,000 RPMs with a short/mid iron, and you can't feel the difference between swing speeds that would produce a 15 mph flyer out of nowhere (its about 2.5 mph with a 6 iron.  You can't feel that.)  These threads are always great because its people competing to tell other people how good they are at sensing things that it is physically impossible for a human to sense.

Edited by pinestreetgolf
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People forget ..... once upon a time , in a galaxy far , far away..........   everyone played a blade.  And everyone smiled . 

This is a true story, i was at an LM once and they had the trackman set up on the right side of the mats. I am a lefty however so the guy had to move it over to the left side of the mat, and it was pl

For reasons unbeknownst to myself, I have been obsessed with playing blades lately. So I took a trip to my local range today and picked out an old Lynx USA 7 iron blade from the rental rack (I don't o

3 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

I am constantly blown away by the level of accuracy some of the poster's on this board have in terms of their strike.

 

"just a little bit more sidespin"

 

"when struck just out of the center"

 

"thinner soles give me better turf interaction" (<- it doesn't matter in an iron, by the time you strike the ground, unless you stink, the ball is already gone)

 

"sometimes, I hit the ball with exactly the same speed with my GI iron and it goes 15 yards farther carry out of nowhere!" <- physically impossible

 

I mean, are we supposed to take this seriously?  Glad the OP is having fun, everyone should play what they like, but everyone should also realize they are not nearly as perceptive as they think they are and that trackman runs literal laps around them in terms of what their equipment is doing.  I mean, you think you can eyeball "a bit" more sidespin when the average 7 iron is spinning around 18,000 RPMs for a good player?  GTFOH.

Who's spinning their 7i 18K?

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Typo ?

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15 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

Glad the OP is having fun, everyone should play what they like, but everyone should also realize they are not nearly as perceptive as they think they are and that trackman runs literal laps around them in terms of what their equipment is doing.  I mean, you think you can eyeball "a bit" more sidespin when the average 7 iron is spinning around 18,000 RPMs for a good player?  GTFOH.

 

 

If you are a 3 handicap you should be able to look at a shot you struck and know whether it is a good one. Why do you need a machine to tell you about your shots ?

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35 minutes ago, Bubbtubbs said:

I usually carry a flask I bought at St. Andrews that contains whatever the flavour of the week single malt is.

 

I don't always break it out, but it's at the ready.

 

Had a member keep a little bottle of Jameson in his bag, didn't like me telling him it was rubbish stuff.  My go to in mine has been 12 yr old Balvenie as I like it on the lighter side.

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32 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

If you are a 3 handicap you should be able to look at a shot you struck and know whether it is a good one. Why do you need a machine to tell you about your shots ?

 

Perhaps he's not good enough to tell if his shot lands at 148 instead of 153, from a football field and a half away from him.

 

Or whether his driver is spinning at 2800 rpm or 2100 rpm and landing 250 or 260 away.

 

I wonder why (virtually ?) ALL Tour Pros have their own Trackmans. Surely THEY must be good enough to tell about their shots,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

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1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Lite beers are more forgiving beers! 

 

Lies, forgiveness is a myth apparently!

 

Tho these threads do remind me to ask why everyone isn't still playing the SLDR or a TS4 if they don't believe in forgiveness.

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10 minutes ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

Lies, forgiveness is a myth apparently!

 

Tho these threads do remind me to ask why everyone isn't still playing the SLDR or a TS4 if they don't believe in forgiveness.

TS4 didn't exist when I was fit into the TS3 and I couldn't try an SLDR on a monitor to get the loft correct or I might have got one on the cheap.

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17 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

Many times has this topic come up.  Yet the Blade (head of club) is discussed. YET the forgot fact is the WHOLE club.

 

Please provide specs on your Ping Zings.  Meaning,  What is the shaft?  what is the lenght?  What is the Swing weight and what is the loft/lie 

 

I played blades from 1974-1994 in my MacGregor MT Forged (blade flatsole, 1971). Uh.. back then blades was all we had. In seasons when I could play six times a month and practice regularly, I shot in the mid-80s. In seasons when I played twice a month with minimal practice, I rarely broke 90 and GIRs were scarce. Thing was, it took a lot of work to keep my swing blade-ready.

 

My next set was Ping Eye2 clones from Pro Tour company, custom-fit. A month after getting them, I was shooting in the 80s again with only modest increase in practice. Clubs were more forgiving, and rewarded good shots nicely.

 

Now, back to the WHOLE club idea. This brings to mind a Tom Wishon-system fitting video from a few years ago. The player was an average-size male about 65 years old. The fitter ended up putting him in one of the Wishon blade-style heads, with a soft-stepped R-flex shaft. He had a short smooth swing, but ripped through the ball at impact. The blade + Rsoft just worked for him.

 

17 hours ago, Exactice808 said:

So already the Lynx 7 iron is 1.5* strong,  usually 3yards per degree so this is at least 5 yards ...

Ex gives us info to show why they Lynx has a design advantage. Also...

 

never buy a set of clubs after only hitting the 7i. The 7i is easy to hit, but you need the 5i and 4i to tell how deep in the set you can handle the club.

 

And, welcome to GolfWRX! 

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What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2020)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i-9i

Wedges:  Calla MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced)

Ball: Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

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17 minutes ago, Bubbtubbs said:

TS4 didn't exist when I was fit into the TS3 and I couldn't try an SLDR on a monitor to get the loft correct or I might have got one on the cheap.

 

I played a SLDR430 for a full season! When hit on the sweet spot that thing was a cannon, i remember that time i did it!

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40 minutes ago, nsxguy said:
43 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

 

I wonder why (virtually ?) ALL Tour Pros have their own Trackmans. Surely THEY must be good enough to tell about their shots,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

The only true way to know which type shot shapes and, or, distances a club produces is on a golf course, watching the shots. This has been true for a hundred years. Launch monitors are fine for "playing swing" or "driving range golf" but this has little to do with actually playing a golf course and, or, shooting low scores.

I imagine the reason Tour players have Trackmans is probably because they are trendy and look cool. Some players use them more than others. It's 50/50 whether using one is helpful or harmful to one's game.

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8 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

I imagine the reason Tour players have Trackmans is probably because they are trendy and look cool. Some players use them more than others. It's 50/50 whether using one is helpful or harmful to one's game.

 

I half agree with you on this. Trackmen and other launch monitors can be overused, but when used properly are quite helpful. One use is in side-by-side clubfitting.

 

A golfer gets to hit two different iron models and, with help of a decent fitter, compare the results. The numbers can help golfer decide if one club fits his game better. Trackman helps golfing niches in different ways.

 

Both pros and competition amateurs delve deeply into Trackman data. And ideally, they can use Trackman outdoors on real turf. Tournament golfers can achieve very precise trajectory and spin windows by tweaking clubs and swing using Trackman data. This is, however, way beyond what the everyday golfer cares about.

 

This next point, although it may sound negative, is good advice for the average golfer: Get clubs that won't hurt your game.

 

Trackman helps you sort out head + shaft combos that just won't work for you. 

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What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2020)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i-9i

Wedges:  Calla MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced)

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20 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

The only true way to know which type shot shapes and, or, distances a club produces is on a golf course, watching the shots. This has been true for a hundred years. Launch monitors are fine for "playing swing" or "driving range golf" but this has little to do with actually playing a golf course and, or, shooting low scores.

I imagine the reason Tour players have Trackmans is probably because they are trendy and look cool. Some players use them more than others. It's 50/50 whether using one is helpful or harmful to one's game.

 

You can tell whether your ball landed at 250 or 260 ? And determine your spin rate ?

 

Congrats. I'd suggest most of us can't.

 

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2 minutes ago, ChipNRun said:

 

Trackmen and other launch monitors can be overused, but when used properly are quite helpful. One use is in side-by-side clubfitting.

 

 

 

I think the current popular method for fitting clubs is mostly ridiculous. Specifically, at no time on a golf course is a player making a dozen or more consecutive swings with a particular club. It does not make good sense to get  "fit for a driver" by standing in one place and making one driver swing after another. Within a couple of swings a good player will get in a "driver swing groove" and fitting to that will produce misleading results.

On a golf course a player is making a single driver swing followed by 15 minutes of playing the rest of the hole, swinging different clubs including a putter. Depending on the course lay out of holes it could be an hour or more between driver swings.

And it's the same for fitting irons ; making a dozen consecutive swings or more with a  6-iron from a level perfect lie is nothing at all like real golf course conditions where iron shots are played from sloped, grassy, hardpan or other less than ideal lies.

So, I believe the launch monitor is good for someone who wants to play launch monitor golf/simulator golf , compare numbers etc... but none of that seems relevant or applicable to playing real golf course shots.

 

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10 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

You can tell whether your ball landed at 250 or 260 ? And determine your spin rate ?

 

Congrats. I'd suggest most of us can't.

 

 

I know how far I strike a tee shot by arriving at my ball and checking the yardage remaining to the green. Why would I want to know or care about "spin rate"? I know from impact sound and watching a ball fly thru the air whether or not I made square, solid contact.

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2 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

I know how far I strike a tee shot by arriving at my ball and checking the yardage remaining to the green. Why would I want to know or care about "spin rate"? I know from impact sound and watching a ball fly thru the air whether or not I made square, solid contact.

 

Why would you want to know or care about spin rate ? You who seem to know everything about everything ? I am agog. I am aghast. Is Marius in love at last ?) (<--- never mind - obscure reference :classic_laugh:)

 

So you'd never have a reason to know how far it flew and how far it ran out ? You'd know that you optimized your launch conditions ? 

 

Glad you've got it all covered. Good for you.  :classic_wink:

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16 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

You can tell whether your ball landed at 250 or 260 ? And determine your spin rate ?

Congrats. I'd suggest most of us can't.

 

3 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

I know how far I strike a tee shot by arriving at my ball and checking the yardage remaining to the green. Why would I want to know or care about "spin rate"? ... 

 

F14, as a 2 HDCP, you probably have better athletic ability and balance than most of us. Congrats on that.

 

But, if you wanted to reach -2 HDCP, for example, you might care about driver spin rate for either increasing accuracy or distance.

 

2 hours ago, pinestreetgolf said:

trackman runs literal laps around them in terms of what their equipment is doing.  I mean, you think you can eyeball "a bit" more sidespin when the average 7 iron is spinning around 8,000 RPMs for a good player? 

 

This brings back painful memories of the two years I spent trying to use a Callaway X Tour 3W. I had been fitted for the partner HyperX Tour driver, which worked quite well. So, bought the 3W on faith. It seemed to work on the range, but I had trouble with it on course.

 

Pain Day came when I was 210 yards out on an uphill Par 5, with visions of eagle dancing in my head. I smacked that 3W dead solid perfect... but it clipped the top of the shallow hill and ricocheted 90 degrees OB right. Got a 7 not a 3.

 

The problem: Our driving range sits atop a hill. It turns out I wasn't hitting the 3W nearly as high as I thought I was. A little trackman time could have taught me this.

-------------------------------

Solution: Play 4W and stay away from Tour heads in FWs. I just swing my driver more aggressively than my fairways.)

-------------------------------

 

Also, spin rate is critical for competition golfers, but also for everyday golfers. This goes back to the idea of, Get clubs that won't hurt your game.

 

Fitters tell me they have trouble getting average golfers to go with a 4W or a 5W vs. a 3W. The reason, they get more spin out of a 4W, which will actually increase shot height, and thus distance, for someone with modest swingspeed. Low spin only works for those with higher swing speeds.

What's In The Bag (Summary as of October 2020)

 

Driver:  Tour Edge EXS 10.5°, weights neutral   ||  FWs:  Calla Rogue 4W + 7W

Hybrid:  Calla Big Bertha OS 4H at 22°  ||  Irons:  Tour Edge CB Pro Tungsten 4i-9i

Wedges:  Calla MD3: 48°, 54°... MD4: 58° ||  Putter: Ping Sigma G Tyne (face-balanced)

Ball: Calla SuperHot (Orange preferred)  ||  Bag: Sun Mountain Three 5 stand bag

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SLDR driver, when the fitter told me a 16* head would be good for me in a driver I walked away  ;o)

 

Back to "blades" ... my only comment is the modern GI blades that are out recently are pretty darn easy to hit

 

I wonder if there is a percentage of increased difficulty measurement of say hitting the new Titleist CB vs MB as an example

 

Me personally they all are about the same to hit except very wide soled irons with load of bounce, can't hit them

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26 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

I know how far I strike a tee shot by arriving at my ball and checking the yardage remaining to the green. Why would I want to know or care about "spin rate"? I know from impact sound and watching a ball fly thru the air whether or not I made square, solid contact.

YMMV but

 

Because could could pick up 10-15 yards on every tee ball and hit one less club into every green thus lowering your score .. which is the end goal IIRC

 

Conversely, you could also hit it straighter if say you learned your spin rate was too low


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Mizuno 919T 6 - PW UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 95 f4
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1 hour ago, Fairway14 said:

 

I think the current popular method for fitting clubs is mostly ridiculous. Specifically, at no time on a golf course is a player making a dozen or more consecutive swings with a particular club. It does not make good sense to get  "fit for a driver" by standing in one place and making one driver swing after another. Within a couple of swings a good player will get in a "driver swing groove" and fitting to that will produce misleading results.

On a golf course a player is making a single driver swing followed by 15 minutes of playing the rest of the hole, swinging different clubs including a putter. Depending on the course lay out of holes it could be an hour or more between driver swings.

And it's the same for fitting irons ; making a dozen consecutive swings or more with a  6-iron from a level perfect lie is nothing at all like real golf course conditions where iron shots are played from sloped, grassy, hardpan or other less than ideal lies.

So, I believe the launch monitor is good for someone who wants to play launch monitor golf/simulator golf , compare numbers etc... but none of that seems relevant or applicable to playing real golf course shots.

 

 

So, if I understand you correctly, a golfer can learn nothing useful about his or her swing from a range session or a launch-monitor enabled range bay session?

 

Bold claim.  Literally every professional golfer except maybe Bruce Lietzke would disagree with you.

 

I'm a decent player, but as nsxguy says, I can't tell from my strike what my spin rate is or exactly how far I've hit it.  I rely on something else for that.  Range sessions.  With a launch monitor.

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12 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

So, if I understand you correctly, a golfer can learn nothing useful about his or her swing from a range session or a launch-monitor enabled range bay session?

 

Bold claim.  Literally every professional golfer except maybe Bruce Lietzke would disagree with you.

 

I'm a decent player, but as nsxguy says, I can't tell from my strike what my spin rate is or exactly how far I've hit it.  I rely on something else for that.  Range sessions.  With a launch monitor.

If you can’t tell how far you’ve hit it how on earth do you play the game? I am honestly non-plussed at that statement.

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11 minutes ago, mahonie said:

If you can’t tell how far you’ve hit it how on earth do you play the game? I am honestly non-plussed at that statement.

 

Did you read the thread?

 

He's talking about being able to tell the difference between 147 and 153 after you hit the ball.  He's talking about being able to tell that you had "identical impact" but "a bit more sidespin" without a launch monitor.

 

Come on mahonie, I've seen you be deliberately obtuse before, but not like this.  Obviously I know if I hit it 120 or 140.

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3 hours ago, gwelfgulfer said:

 

Lies, forgiveness is a myth apparently!

 

Tho these threads do remind me to ask why everyone isn't still playing the SLDR or a TS4 if they don't believe in forgiveness.

Comparing irons to toasters on a stick isn’t exactly apples to apples.  Sure forgiveness exists.  But alwasy in trade of something else. 

 

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26 minutes ago, mahonie said:

If you can’t tell how far you’ve hit it how on earth do you play the game? I am honestly non-plussed at that statement.

Some can.  And others teach and lecture.  Isn’t that the old adage ? 

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3 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Did you read the thread?

 

He's talking about being able to tell the difference between 147 and 153 after you hit the ball.  He's talking about being able to tell that you had "identical impact" but "a bit more sidespin" without a launch monitor.

 

Come on mahonie, I've seen you be deliberately obtuse before, but not like this.  Obviously I know if I hit it 120 or 140.

A tenth of a second after I’ve made impact, with an iron, I know within 5 yards where the ball is going to land, both length and direction...unless I’ve topped it (there are too many variables with the running ball ;-).

 

I’ve never used trackman to understand my distances and I’m usually within 5 yards when my buddy asks me for a distance to check against his GPS...I’m not joking and I’m going off the 150 yard markers most of the time. If a shot looks like a 6-iron when I walk up to it, I always take the 6-iron, even if my buddy says that it’s only 150 yards (I don’t ask him but sometimes he can’t resist). If I take the 7-iron I’ll feel that I need to step on it a bit and typically mishit it. Smooth 6-iron, I’m more likely to be within my target zone.  I’ve played in windy conditions where knowing how far you hit a particular club is irrelevant...you have to use feel.

 

Don’t be wedded to trackman distances...there are too many variables coming into play to rely on them.

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13 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

I imagine there is some flexibility in "knowing how far you hit it". 

 

I mean if i know i have 175 to a green, i will typically know a fraction of a second after contact if the ball is hitting the green or not. I can't yell out "177" or something like i'm Tin Cup. But i imagine most good golfers can guess within what, 10 yards? Is that reasonable?

 

 

I would go with 5 yards 😜

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Just now, mahonie said:

I would go with 5 yards 😜

 

Yeah i know (wink)....i mean i didn't want to seem elitist

 

 

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