My brief blade experience

[mahonie]

2 minutes ago, MtlJeff said:

 

Yeah i know (wink)....i mean i didn't want to seem elitist

 

 

When I’m playing the MP4s it’s down to 2 yards...again I’m not joking 🤫

[cardoustie]

I think an annual hour or 90 minutes on trackman to nail down your carry yardages and gapping is time and money well spent (especially since I just went thru this)

 

Even tour player +8 handicaps learn they have two clubs that are too close in carry yardage .. or too far from these these sessions

 

Watched a 10 cap buddy do his fitting two days ago and his 4h and 5i were 3 yards apart .... just sayin'

 

[mahonie]

5 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

 

Not long ago there were no launch monitors or players talking about spin rates. Yet, for a hundred years players were able to strike great shots and shoot low scores.

In the same vane, I had a heated debate on Twitter with a journalist from one of the UK golf mags who more or less said that anyone who went on a golf course without a GPS or range-finder was an idiot. I used the same argument and he went back into his box 👍

[Fairway14]

51 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

So, if I understand you correctly, a golfer can learn nothing useful about his or her swing from a range session or a launch-monitor enabled range bay session?

 

 

Range practice sessions are essential. Traditionally the best players listen to impact sound-feel, watch the flight of the ball, pay attention to their divots etc...

 

[nsxguy]

On 11/26/2020 at 3:54 PM, Fairway14 said:

 

 

Not long ago there were no launch monitors or players talking about spin rates. Yet, for a hundred years players were able to strike great shots and shoot low scores.

 

 

 

Because they didn't know any better. Good Lord man, wake up and smell the new millenium. You're 20 years late.

 

And now players hit a lot MORE great shots and shoot way MORE lower scores,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Yeah ?

 

Well 100 years ago I walked to school 20 miles each way in the freezing weather.

 

Then Mom got me a horse. Still got cold but for much less time.

 

Then Dad bought a car,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by nsxguy

[mahonie]

1 minute ago, cardoustie said:

I think an annual hour or 90 minutes on trackman to nail down your carry yardages and gapping is time and money well spent (especially since I just went thru this)

 

Even tour player +8 handicaps learn they have two clubs that are too close in carry yardage .. or too far from these these sessions

 

Watched a 10 cap buddy do his fitting two days ago and his 4h and 5i were 3 yards apart .... just sayin'

 

I have done a session (on I want to say ‘Vector’ monitor but I can’t remember) a while ago because I could tell that my 15* 3-wood and 17* 2-hybrid were going a similar distance. The 3-wood was carrying 10 yards further but after run was taken into account there was about 2 yards difference. Really low penetrating flight with the 2-hybrid which is great for driving on links courses in the wind. Pro got me a strong 13* 3-wood to get the gaps sorted so  trackman does have its uses...I just wouldn’t build a bag around its results.

[TheDeanAbides]

20 hours ago, Ripken08 said:

 

Looks like a blade to me....a little perimeter weighting but not much

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lynx-USA-Model-7-Iron-Original-Stiff-Steel-Shaft-/292993984236

Looks like a Hogan Radial.

[bschett]

17 minutes ago, mahonie said:

A tenth of a second after I’ve made impact, with an iron, I know within 5 yards where the ball is going to land, both length and direction...unless I’ve topped it (there are too many variables with the running ball ;-).

 

I’ve never used trackman to understand my distances and I’m usually within 5 yards when my buddy asks me for a distance to check against his GPS...I’m not joking and I’m going off the 150 yard markers most of the time. If a shot looks like a 6-iron when I walk up to it, I always take the 6-iron, even if my buddy says that it’s only 150 yards (I don’t ask him but sometimes he can’t resist). If I take the 7-iron I’ll feel that I need to step on it a bit and typically mishit it. Smooth 6-iron, I’m more likely to be within my target zone.  I’ve played in windy conditions where knowing how far you hit a particular club is irrelevant...you have to use feel.

 

Don’t be wedded to trackman distances...there are too many variables coming into play to rely on them.

You were fine up until saying this. Haha That is just an absurd thing to claim, 1/10th of a second come on man. 
 

I don’t have a a Trackman but theres a reason when you watch pros warmup there’s a trackman behind almost every single one of them, they are understanding how far the ball is traveling on that day. They wouldn’t use it if it wasn’t giving them something they couldn’t already see or feel. 

[cardoustie]

I'd bet DJ would argue there is merit to heavy Trackman usage

[Fairway14]

16 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

 

 

Because they didn't know any better. Good Lord man, wake up and smell the new millenium. You're 20 years late.

 

And now players hit a lot MORE great shots and shoot way MORE lower scores,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Yeah ?

 

Well 100 years ago I walked to school 20 miles each way in the freezing weather.

 

Then Mom got me a horse. Still got cold but for much less time.

 

Then Dad bought a car,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

I am all for technological improvements. The current clubs, balls, course maintenance, riding carts and push carts etc... are all significantly better than they once were.

But not everything new is better. It's probably about 50/50 whether launch monitors have helped or harmed players games.  Half the players , yes, half the players, no.

[pinestreetgolf]

4 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

I am all for technological improvements. The current clubs, balls, course maintenance, riding carts and push carts etc... are all significantly better than they once were.

But not everything new is better. It's probably about 50/50 whether launch monitors have helped or harmed players games.  Half the players , yes, half the players, no.

 

Where in the world are you getting this from?  50/50 ?  Is this from the same place that lets you know your spin rate just after impact?

 

Man, imagine thinking you know this much about golf that you know the percentage of improvement that Trackman has provided off the top of your head.

 

You are either the smartest golfer I've ever interacted with or you have no idea what you're talking about.

[bschett]

9 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

I am all for technological improvements. The current clubs, balls, course maintenance, riding carts and push carts etc... are all significantly better than they once were.

But not everything new is better. It's probably about 50/50 whether launch monitors have helped or harmed players games.  Half the players , yes, half the players, no.

Where does the 50/50 stat come from? Unless it’s inaccurate I’m not sure how data is going to harm somebody. 

[braincramp52]

22 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

I am all for technological improvements. The current clubs, balls, course maintenance, riding carts and push carts etc... are all significantly better than they once were.

But not everything new is better. It's probably about 50/50 whether launch monitors have helped or harmed players games.  Half the players , yes, half the players, no.

 

How has trackman hurt Tour players?

[MtlJeff]

1 minute ago, braincramp52 said:

 

How has trackman hurt Tour players?

 

This is a true story, i was at an LM once and they had the trackman set up on the right side of the mats. I am a lefty however so the guy had to move it over to the left side of the mat, and it was plugged in (this was one of the models for indoor use i guess and was powered by AC). So anyway the guy is moving it and it gets caught on the corner of the mat and kind of jerks him back a bit. 

 

He could've easily tweaked his back or neck with a sudden thing like that. So this is definitely a way a trackman could hurt people. 

 

[Fairway14]

9 minutes ago, braincramp52 said:

 

How has trackman hurt Tour players?

 

For example, while trying to chase particular numbers a player makes harmful swing changes.

[setter02]

58 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

 

Where in the world are you getting this from?  50/50 ?  Is this from the same place that lets you know your spin rate just after impact?

 

Man, imagine thinking you know this much about golf that you know the percentage of improvement that Trackman has provided off the top of your head.

 

You are either the smartest golfer I've ever interacted with or you have no idea what you're talking about.

He has no idea what he is talking about.  In this instance, he would maybe come up with Luke Donald as an example of chasing numbers hurt him (yet surprisingly enough, couldn't even answer the question with a name when directly asked for clarification), but the reality is he was basically a non issue because of the changes to the game (bigger, faster, stronger), and HAD to change to continue to be competitive.  

 

The 50/50 number is him trying, as usual, to sound like an informed person, when his arguments are easier to pick apart than wet noodles.

 

We have been in the LM era for a little while now and you are seeing the difference in more youth playing at extremely high levels faster than before.  Part of this is that more actual athletes are taking up golf rather than other sports like in the past, but the wealth of info at their fingertips has fast forwarded things immensely. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by setter02

[pinestreetgolf]

28 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

For example, while trying to chase particular numbers a player makes harmful swing changes.

you think half of the tour has made harmful swing changes chasing numbers?! You said 50/50...

 

Edit just read post above. Got it. Of course, before trackman, nobody ever made harmful swing changes.

Edited November 26, 2020 by pinestreetgolf

[nsxguy]

1 hour ago, Fairway14 said:

 

I am all for technological improvements. The current clubs, balls, course maintenance, riding carts and push carts etc... are all significantly better than they once were.

But not everything new is better. It's probably about 50/50 whether launch monitors have helped or harmed players games.  Half the players , yes, half the players, no.

 

Your opinions are duly noted. 

[nsxguy]

38 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

For example, while trying to chase particular numbers a player makes harmful swing changes.

 

So that guy WON'T chase more distance if he didn't have a Trackman ??? 

 

My goodness. You'll say pretty much anything to "defend" a position,,,,,,,,, no matter how silly it is.  

[pinestreetgolf]

1 minute ago, nsxguy said:

 

So that guy WON'T chase more distance if he didn't have a Trackman ??? 

 

My goodness. You'll say pretty much anything to "defend" a position,,,,,,,,, no matter how silly it is.  

he also said a good player can tell his distance and spin rate after hitting the ball, so I’m not sure where the trackman being the catalyst comes in...

[mahonie]

1 hour ago, bschett said:

You were fine up until saying this. Haha That is just an absurd thing to claim, 1/10th of a second come on man. 
 

I don’t have a a Trackman but theres a reason when you watch pros warmup there’s a trackman behind almost every single one of them, they are understanding how far the ball is traveling on that day. They wouldn’t use it if it wasn’t giving them something they couldn’t already see or feel. 

I can tell by the strike I’ve had where the ball is going before I’m halfway through my follow through...I’m sure most players can unless they have fists of ham.

 

If you’re a pro and dialling in a wedge on the range before going out for a round, trackman is a great tool, I’m not disputing it. But hacks building their whole golfing experience around trackman on the range is not what golf is about...you’ve got to get out there and play clubs in the wild to understand what performance you’re going to get. My home course doesn’t have a flat lie anywhere except on the tee...work at the range is ok for grooving the swing, but doesn’t add much to ball-striking. 

 

Looking at the spin numbers is largely irrelevant once you’re playing clubs that you’re comfortable with and give you good gapping.

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, mahonie said:

In the same vane, I had a heated debate on Twitter with a journalist from one of the UK golf mags who more or less said that anyone who went on a golf course without a GPS or range-finder was an idiot. I used the same argument and he went back into his box 👍

Those types are fun.  I use a finder but. I’d be happy to put a healthy wager on beating him anywhere without one.  Lol.    Modern help is cool. It’s nice. But in the end with a game that’s a ball being struck by a stick.  The swinger of the stick is still the most important piece of gear.  

[indianwoodpro]

17 hours ago, jplroper said:

Are you sure about that , or are you thinking of the Lynx Parallax irons. They look like the eye 2's but with a more level top line.

 

On 11/25/2020 at 5:53 PM, longjohnpeter said:

For reasons unbeknownst to myself, I have been obsessed with playing blades lately. So I took a trip to my local range today and picked out an old Lynx USA 7 iron blade from the rental rack (I don't own a blade and had never hit one previously). While I did see a reduction in distance (more of a result of EXTREMELY crappy range balls and a 50 degree day), I couldn't believe how much more consistent my face contact was, compared with my Ping Zing's I currently use. And even on the few mishits, they weren't punished nearly as bad as everyone and their mother said they would be, and I knew exactly what had happened and could adjust accordingly.

 

Anyone have a similar experience? Is this just a honeymoon phase? Or is the golfing elite trying to preserve the sanctity of blade irons?

 

17 hours ago, jplroper said:

Are you sure about that , or are you thinking of the Lynx Parallax irons. They look like the eye 2's but with a more level top line.

I’m sure - they are cast and have a shaft over hosel design.

I remember when they came out.

Quite expensive - and State of the Art Design - allowed redistribution of weight from the hosel to the clubhead.

Nice feeling but definitely Not a Blade.

[bladehunter]

46 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

he also said a good player can tell his distance and spin rate after hitting the ball, so I’m not sure where the trackman being the catalyst comes in...

What he’s saying is that guys didnt have the info to experiment with before.   Just because i can tell you shot for shot which spins more or less , doesn’t mean I can tell you how i got there. Having a lot of access t trackman myself , I can attest that it makes it easy to experiment swing for swing to see what effects what.   It’s instant feedback on a grip , or path change etc. 

 

that being said. I don’t use it much.  I don’t care for it.  It’s caused several harmful rabbit holes for me , and in my opinion works against my natural tendency to feel my way around.  By that I mean it causes my ocd brain to want to perfect numbers etc. chase max carries with each club etc.  which requires perfect strikes. Not perfect as in solid - middle etc. but perfect as in aoa -path - etc. launch conditions.  I can take a 7 iron and vary carry 20 yards depending on spin - aoa and shape.  In my opinion that’s opposite thinking to any truly great iron player. You see a shot and you hit it. Window , shape and spin.  You get to know what club will do that.  Control is the name of the game.  Not max carry.  You aren’t out there trying to recreate the 1 in 20 perfect launch characteristics.  
 

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by bladehunter

[Fairway14]

40 minutes ago, pinestreetgolf said:

he also said a good player can tell his distance and spin rate after hitting the ball, so I’m not sure where the trackman being the catalyst comes in...

 

Reading comprehension, please.

If you look again you will find that I wrote that a player should know from impact sound-feel and watching the ball fly whether he struck the shot solid. Regarding spin rate, I questioned why any player would want to know that number. Again, a player can and should learn from watching his shots; it's an integral part of the game.

[mahonie]

6 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Those types are fun.  I use a finder but. I’d be happy to put a healthy wager on beating him anywhere without one.  Lol.    Modern help is cool. It’s nice. But in the end with a game that’s a ball being struck by a stick.  The swinger of the stick is still the most important piece of gear.  

To be fair I’ve just started using a GPS app on my watch and for me the jury is still out. I typically pick the club for the shot as I’m walking to  the ball...knowing the exact yardage is just a complication and plays with my head lol. 

[Fairway14]

3 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

I don’t use it much.  I don’t care for it.  It’s caused several harmful rabbit holes for me , and in my opinion works against my natural tendency to feel my way around.  

 

 

That is an excellent example of how using launch monitors can be harmful to one's game. And your comments above are from a playing perspective.

When one uses a launch monitor to fit a person for clubs more harmful factors emerge. For example, a fitting session including multiple consecutive swings with one club , from a flat level lie, is so completely different from playing a golf course that it's likely counter productive to finding the most appropriate club design/specifications. As always, there is no substitute for playing shots during a round of golf and learning from that.

 

[braincramp52]

3 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

That is an excellent example of how using launch monitors can be harmful to one's game. And your comments above are from a playing perspective.

When one uses a launch monitor to fit a person for clubs more harmful factors emerge. For example, a fitting session including multiple consecutive swings with one club , from a flat level lie, is so completely different from playing a golf course that it's likely counter productive to finding the most appropriate club design/specifications. As always, there is no substitute for playing shots during a round of golf and learning from that.

 

Well, I can tell you after being fitted for irons on trackman the last two sets I will never buy another set without doing so. 

[mahonie]

7 minutes ago, braincramp52 said:

Well, I can tell you after being fitted for irons on trackman the last two sets I will never buy another set without doing so. 

Hang on...what was wrong with the first set that you had to buy another one? 🤔

[bschett]

21 minutes ago, Fairway14 said:

 

That is an excellent example of how using launch monitors can be harmful to one's game. And your comments above are from a playing perspective.

When one uses a launch monitor to fit a person for clubs more harmful factors emerge. For example, a fitting session including multiple consecutive swings with one club , from a flat level lie, is so completely different from playing a golf course that it's likely counter productive to finding the most appropriate club design/specifications. As always, there is no substitute for playing shots during a round of golf and learning from that.

 

Man no one is saying that playing actual golf isn’t better than sitting at a launch monitor and hitting 7 irons but that doesn’t mean a launch monitor is harmful to 50% of golfers. That just doesn’t make any sense. 

 

All it gives you is data, if you choose to make huge changes that hurt you because you are chasing some magic ball flight numbers, that is your own issue. Again there’s a reason every PGA event has a range lined with trackmans.