My brief blade experience

[MJA1]

I recently purchased a set of the new Wilson Staff "blades" (3-P) and am really enjoying playing with these irons. I have been playing golf for about 45 years and have had a number of different sets over the years. After 30 some years I am back to playing with blades and pleased to have made the return back. My first set as a kid was a used set of Wilson Staff Dynapower blades from the  early 1970's. I was self taught through observation and practice and learned to play the game on that set.  The new clubs are absolutely beautiful and have a lot of the same characteristics as the earlier Wilson staff models but with some modern technology. 

 

No doubt the clubs have a smaller sweet spot, but they force me to focus on making a smooth balanced swing. I have a low double digit handicap and have hit some beautiful shots with these clubs.  When the swing gets in a nice groove they are pure joy to hit. The clubs are sensitive to a more pronounced draw/hook or fade/slice but the feedback is immediate so you can adjust. My net score is similar to before but my level of enjoyment and excitement for my game has gone up significantly. I will stick with these for some time and look forward to a lot of enjoyment on the course.     

[Bruceapex]

I was reading where it has been said (or written) that the sound a blade makes is a big part of its feel. I’ve been playing blades my almost my whole life, Hogan apex redlines, bought new, from 1988, my fourth new set of them (the others I wore out), and I am nearly deaf, so much so I have a service dog to help out with door bells, phone ringing etc., and I’ll tell you for certain, I feel the clubs and can tell you with authority that I can tell the feel difference between my 1988 Hogan apex’s, my ‘92, apex’s, my ‘93 apex legends, my ‘90 apex grinds, my ‘73 apex’s, as well as most other forged and cast clubs I’ve ever laid my hands on. Feel, that elusive quality hogan was to have said comes up the clubs, into your hands and up into your heart..or soul...or words to that effect..and you don’t need to hear it, you can plainly feel it. 

[lefthack]

I like playing blades even though I will never be "good enough".

 

This thread is pure gold. The deep dive into the black magic of launch monitors makes it all worth while.

[bladehunter]

On 12/11/2020 at 3:21 PM, Bruceapex said:

I was reading where it has been said (or written) that the sound a blade makes is a big part of its feel. I’ve been playing blades my almost my whole life, Hogan apex redlines, bought new, from 1988, my fourth new set of them (the others I wore out), and I am nearly deaf, so much so I have a service dog to help out with door bells, phone ringing etc., and I’ll tell you for certain, I feel the clubs and can tell you with authority that I can tell the feel difference between my 1988 Hogan apex’s, my ‘92, apex’s, my ‘93 apex legends, my ‘90 apex grinds, my ‘73 apex’s, as well as most other forged and cast clubs I’ve ever laid my hands on. Feel, that elusive quality hogan was to have said comes up the clubs, into your hands and up into your heart..or soul...or words to that effect..and you don’t need to hear it, you can plainly feel it. 

100 %.  It’s never been a sound thing.  Some folks feel things in their hands.  Some apparently are “hand deaf “.     If it were a sound thing completely we’d all be talking about what ball plus what iron “ sounded “ the best.  Nobody does that.

 

  I similar to you have tested putters with ear plugs in.  I’ve yet to find one that “ feels “ like the one I have.  I did so to prove to myself that it was it’s construction ( thin face and “sound” slot ) and not the  metal material or so much the ball that made the biggest difference.  

 

same way a shaft changes the feel.  A grip changes it drastically.  Neither interact with the ball or your ear.   But  both do so with the hands. 

[bladehunter]

On 11/29/2020 at 10:25 AM, clinkinfo said:

I don’t understand this discussion honestly, but I really don’t understand this post.

 

you wouldn’t build a bag around trackman results?  Trackman results are just BALL RESULTS from your strike,  they are the exact numbers your hitting your clubs.  That’s EXACTLY what we build bags around, the ball results and gapping??

 

 

The other side of the coin is feel.  And dispersion.   Yes trackman will tell dispersion.  But. 99% of the conversation on trackman revolves around distance .  You have to search out dispersion results on any video on YouTube.  And with any fitter ive ever seen.  It’s spin , launch window , smash and total distance.  
 

I just quit a bag full of trackman champs.  As my scores have went up but more important, consistency is gone.  
 

the real tech advantage of today is in the “ woods “.  Most of the irons are a step backwards.   

[clinkinfo]

9 hours ago, bladehunter said:

100 %.  It’s never been a sound thing.  Some folks feel things in their hands.  Some apparently are “hand deaf “.     If it were a sound thing completely we’d all be talking about what ball plus what iron “ sounded “ the best.  Nobody does that.

 

  I similar to you have tested putters with ear plugs in.  I’ve yet to find one that “ feels “ like the one I have.  I did so to prove to myself that it was it’s construction ( thin face and “sound” slot ) and not the  metal material or so much the ball that made the biggest difference.  

 

same way a shaft changes the feel.  A grip changes it drastically.  Neither interact with the ball or your ear.   But  both do so with the hands. 

"...But above all, he recognised the intimate and consummate relationship between sound and feel. “With a putter, probably 90 percent of its feel is down to the sound it makes,” claims Ping’s senior design engineer Marty Jertson.

“We’ve done tests with golfers wearing noise-cancelling headphones. They hit a putter that made a ding like the A1, one that made no sound at all, and one that made a normal modern medium sound. Without hearing impact, they could not tell any difference in feel..."

 

https://www.golfaustralia.com.au/news/the-science-of-sound-427393/page0

[clinkinfo]

8 hours ago, bladehunter said:

The other side of the coin is feel.  And dispersion.   Yes trackman will tell dispersion.  But. 99% of the conversation on trackman revolves around distance .  You have to search out dispersion results on any video on YouTube.  And with any fitter ive ever seen.  It’s spin , launch window , smash and total distance.  
 

I just quit a bag full of trackman champs.  As my scores have went up but more important, consistency is gone.  
 

the real tech advantage of today is in the “ woods “.  Most of the irons are a step backwards.   

I'm not sure I fully understand your response. 

 

But respectfully, your bag full of "trackman champs" could not be trackman champs if they were so inconsistent.  Trackman shows inconsistency if you do the testing right. 

 

Sure, feel is part of the equation too, which trackman doesn't do anything for. But that's not it's job, that's yours during the testing, to decide what you like and don't like?

[bladehunter]

9 hours ago, clinkinfo said:

"...But above all, he recognised the intimate and consummate relationship between sound and feel. “With a putter, probably 90 percent of its feel is down to the sound it makes,” claims Ping’s senior design engineer Marty Jertson.

“We’ve done tests with golfers wearing noise-cancelling headphones. They hit a putter that made a ding like the A1, one that made no sound at all, and one that made a normal modern medium sound. Without hearing impact, they could not tell any difference in feel..."

 

https://www.golfaustralia.com.au/news/the-science-of-sound-427393/page0

Right.  And yet somehow some of us have done this and can tell a difference.   

[bladehunter]

9 hours ago, clinkinfo said:

I'm not sure I fully understand your response. 

 

But respectfully, your bag full of "trackman champs" could not be trackman champs if they were so inconsistent.  Trackman shows inconsistency if you do the testing right. 

 

Sure, feel is part of the equation too, which trackman doesn't do anything for. But that's not it's job, that's yours during the testing, to decide what you like and don't like?

What I’m saying is.  Trackman champs. As in best numbers. Then you take them to the course with uneven lies , partial shots and wind .... and suddenly the shine wears off.  Trackman is a tool I use. But with a large spoonful of salt.  On course testing is the ONLY real way to know.  I can’t even begin to count the Trackman queens than I’ve sold.     Got rid of an autoflex / sim2 driver Sunday that I saw a 6 mph gain in clubhead speed with.  Why ?  It contained a huge high right miss.  Can’t play golf fearing that miss. 20 yards won’t erase an OB ball a round.  

[clinkinfo]

4 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Right.  And yet somehow some of us have done this and can tell a difference.   

I think some folks believe they are doing that test, but aren’t.  You need to truly eliminate noise, like with noise canceling headphones and sound, not just ear plugs.  
 

in the end, there’s research article after article of designers discussing this issue.  And they all say the same thing, when you can’t hear, people no longer perceive feel.  Perhaps someone is a complete exception and somehow perceives feel a different way, but all the research work and money these companies spend says the bulk of us  are not.

[clinkinfo]

5 hours ago, bladehunter said:

What I’m saying is.  Trackman champs. As in best numbers. Then you take them to the course with uneven lies , partial shots and wind .... and suddenly the shine wears off.  Trackman is a tool I use. But with a large spoonful of salt.  On course testing is the ONLY real way to know.  I can’t even begin to count the Trackman queens than I’ve sold.     Got rid of an autoflex / sim2 driver Sunday that I saw a 6 mph gain in clubhead speed with.  Why ?  It contained a huge high right miss.  Can’t play golf fearing that miss. 20 yards won’t erase an OB ball a round.  

But that’s what I don’t understand, you didn’t see that big 20 yard right miss on trackman?  I think most of us would have looked at that trackman result and concluded a 6 mph gain isn’t worth an erratic 20 yard miss.  Trackman is showing both speed AND direction??

 

turf interaction is a fair point, some club shapes and sizes are easier for some golfers. We all have preferences for sure. But, trackman doesn’t analyze shapes and turf interaction, so I guess I feel like that’s on you the golfer to weigh in your decisions.  I just don’t understand what trackman really has to do with that part.  Even if trackman says I’m hitting something with great numbers, I know what I like and don’t on course.  So I may reject it anyway. Trackman is just telling me numbers, I have to use my own preferences and knowledge when I compare the rest of the club.

Edited May 18, 2021 by clinkinfo

[bladehunter]

7 hours ago, clinkinfo said:

But that’s what I don’t understand, you didn’t see that big 20 yard right miss on trackman?  I think most of us would have looked at that trackman result and concluded a 6 mph gain isn’t worth an erratic 20 yard miss.  Trackman is showing both speed AND direction??

 

turf interaction is a fair point, some club shapes and sizes are easier for some golfers. We all have preferences for sure. But, trackman doesn’t analyze shapes and turf interaction, so I guess I feel like that’s on you the golfer to weigh in your decisions.  I just don’t understand what trackman really has to do with that part.  Even if trackman says I’m hitting something with great numbers, I know what I like and don’t on course.  So I may reject it anyway. Trackman is just telling me numbers, I have to use my own preferences and knowledge when I compare the rest of the club.

Right.  But like most I said “ hmm I’ll straighten that out once I’m able to see the whole flight outside “ etc.     just like the guy who thinks he will up the iron spin on grass outside when the iron or wedge is low spin off a mat  etc. I’m one that doesn’t do well on trackman unless I can also see the entire flight.  I was outside. But into a net 60 yards away.  Hard to tell what’s what that way.

 

As in is the cause of the high right miss the club , me or the combo of the limited flight view and the club ?  Answer was the club.  it was a poor fit.  ( as the autoflex is for most fast players ) But I’ve had it be only the limited flight view before , and on course the miss isn’t there.    Feel players adjust instantly to the flight they see.  If you can’t see it. It’s like being blind .  

[nsxguy]

On 5/17/2021 at 9:25 PM, clinkinfo said:

"...But above all, he recognised the intimate and consummate relationship between sound and feel. “With a putter, probably 90 percent of its feel is down to the sound it makes,” claims Ping’s senior design engineer Marty Jertson.

“We’ve done tests with golfers wearing noise-cancelling headphones. They hit a putter that made a ding like the A1, one that made no sound at all, and one that made a normal modern medium sound. Without hearing impact, they could not tell any difference in feel..."

 

That's very interesting.

 

Wonder why Ping, for about the last 3(?) seasons has had such a soft rubbery(?) face insert you can barely hear it hit the ball.

Edited May 21, 2021 by nsxguy

[clinkinfo]

17 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

That's very interesting.

 

Wonder why Ping, for about the last 3(?) seasons has had such a soft rubbery(?) face insert you can't barely hear it hit the ball.

I think because that gets perceived as super soft by the hitter.

[MelloYello]

I flirted a lot with blades when I started out. I had several sets, often going back and forth between blades and player's CBs. I came away feeling like blades really challenge the user to be consistent. They're akin to a race-car that can do amazing things in the hands of the expert who wants that edge-of-the-envelop performance but which is out-and-out dangerous when put into the hands of a novice who's not in control. 

 

Short irons:

I think people have pretty much concluded that forgiveness in short irons isn't really that important. Short irons misses are more left/right based on swing mistakes. So I would judge short irons on turf interaction and aesthetics. To me, blades looked good but often had a sole was a little narrow and sharp for the softer conditions I'm used to. So I never found blades to be the optimal choice in the shorter irons. 

 

Mid irons:

These were really where blades sang their true tune IMHO. The ability to carefully flight a little medium draw/fade 6i or 7i is really the somewhat unique thrill that blades offer. This is where workability and trajectory control is really nice to have. It's often where you could smash a short iron but where a classy, flighted mid-iron is a more rewarding experience. 

 

Long irons:

I really don't see the attraction here. There are so many better options these days for generating better height, better spin, better distance, better gapping, better consistency, etc. You've got 7-woods, hybrids, driving irons, CBs, etc. Nobody really needs blade long irons anymore and they don't really accomplish anything. There's no shot in the world that requires a blade long iron. So I think people have smartly given up on them. 

[5 O'Clock Charlie]

On 5/20/2021 at 10:29 AM, MelloYello said:

Long irons:

 

Nobody really needs blade long irons anymore and they don't really accomplish anything. There's no shot in the world that requires a blade long iron. So I think people have smartly given up on them. 

 

To me, there is no better feeling than hitting a 3 iron on the button and striping it down the middle or hitting it to the center of the green on a long, challenging, second shot. Sure I could hit a hybrid, but that's not as satisfying.

[Unibrow]

I have a set of Mizuno mp32's, not pure blades, and a set of 90's Mizuno Cimmaron's. I find that my concentration is better and I find the center much more often than with my gamers. There is definitely a significant distance loss. I am a slow swinger, which is the only reason I don't play them, the feeling on centered hits is pure heaven. If there were such a thing as pure forged blades that had the distance I desperately need I would game them.

[lefthack]

I ordered a 4-PW set of the Haywood MB's but was assured I can get a CB 4 and 5 should I come to my senses. While my KZG blade 4 was at times challenging, it was a thing of beauty when well hit.

[Billy-Bo-Jim-Bob]

On 12/1/2020 at 4:30 AM, rjwsuffolk said:

I have kept an old set of Ram Tour Grind Axial irons - have "upgraded" twice since these were in my bag. They look so gorgeous, I do not want to sell them, and I guess they would not fetch much money anyway.

However I do sometimes take them down to the range and effectively use them as a training aid. The heavier shafts slow down my swing a bit, so I get back a good tempo, and if I do not hit out of the middle I am sure made aware of it!

I think I read somewhere that Greg Norman used to practice with old blades and persimmon woods for similar reasons?

I have kept these irons as well and use them from time to time to keep things interesting. I bought Titleist 990's in 2001 and just purchased JPX921 Tours last month, so not so many irons to compare them with.  Just love the way the Ram's feel! Will never let them go!

[KingstonGolfer]

Solid shots are solid shots. The differences is missing the distance by 20 year ds of 40 yards

[haly]

On 11/26/2020 at 9:57 AM, bladehunter said:

Everyone who enjoyed golf smiled. 

Hahaha Absolutely right:)

[The Swanny]

I have MP60s I use still off and on.  I prefer the ball flight of them to my new Ping i525s but the mishits do go farther with the Pings.  When you square one with a blade it feels soooo good.  Especially the 3i which I use in place of 5 wood.