Why is Srixon always considered an underdog?

[Myherobobhope]

4 hours ago, golfing_penguin said:

Uncle Roger would recommend Srixon. With MSG.

MSG is perfectly harmless and occurs naturally in foods like seaweed, tomatoes and Parmesan cheese...

[Christen_The_Sloop]

9 hours ago, Fairway14 said:

 

 Japanese rubber tire companies like Bridgestone ($35 billion)  and Sumitomo ($50 billion) have such large annual revenues that the golf industry is financially irrelevant to them.

For comparison, golf-only company Acushnet-Titleist-Footjoy annual revenues are less than $2 billion. Callaway has struggled to reach $1 billion within the golf industry so that company has made acquisitions to try and bring in revenues outside of golf. Mizuno's golf related products contribute

about $500 million of the company's $1.5 billion annual sales.

 

It's all about the rubber for the top two, for sure. Mizuno is a really interesting case. They are THE sports company in Japan. The high school where I am working uses there products for sports teams, the kids all where Mizuno gym shoes etc. I think it's pretty similar everywhere you go. 

 

As far as presence over here. Srixon is still on the periphery. I see more and more of them at the range I go to, but it's still primarily Mizuno, XXIO, Tourstage/Bridgestone, Titleist, Taylormade (Glorie), Callaway, to some extent Ping, PRGR, Romaro, Fourteen and finally other boutique brands like Epon, Miura, PXG. Matsuyama being the biggest name in Japanese Golf has certainly helped, but people buy what they see the pros using and the companies that splash for commercials are largely the big guys. Japan is divided by region when it comes to car preference too, so that may be the case. As I don't play golf too much outside where I live, I could be off by a little, but not much.

 

 

[golf4fun]

1 hour ago, Honixx said:

I have to put myself in this category of not giving Srixon it's fair shake.  I absolutely loved the feel of the 785's when I tried them last year but I just can't convince myself to pull the trigger.  Not sure why.  I consider them to be the Kia of golf clubs.   I know they make really good, reliable cars, and even though bang for the buck they are hard to beat, I just can't bring myself to buya Kia either.  Guess I'm vain.

Too funny, was a titleist guy forever and bought the 765s and now have 2 sets of the 785s!  Ford guy forever as well and just bought a KIA telluride!! Post just made me laugh!!

[Christen_The_Sloop]

1 hour ago, Myherobobhope said:

MSG is perfectly harmless and occurs naturally in foods like seaweed, tomatoes and Parmesan cheese...

 

I add a little too this salad dressing I make with  2 parts olive oil, 1 part rice vinegar, oregano, lemon and salt. It's the best salad dressing ever. 

[Strategery]

12 hours ago, Christen_The_Sloop said:

Good old Sumitomo. They also had Dunlop Japan. Quite the history of irons there. The DP-30, DP-201, FC-201. They definitely have the pedigree. I think Srixon is just an odd name, to be honest. Like a food additive you know you shouldn't consume.

 

Laugh all you want, but Srixon is a terrible brand name for the west.

[llewol007]

All Marketing

[Hstead]

I think they have some great looking irons. I haven't bought any yet, but they have caught my eye more than once.  I just ordered three dozen Z Stars since they have the buy two get one sale and I am really liking them compared to my normal ProV1.  I may stick with the Z.

[tannyhoban]

12 hours ago, hypergolf said:

I got the answer on YouTube.

 

 

ZetEx Seven! They still have the funky sole dammit. Sure are pretty.

[braincramp52]

19 hours ago, indianagolf2 said:

Not a big enough name..titleist..taylor made...clearly are the top 2...ping..srixon..cleveland are a huge step under. 

 

Ping? A huge step under ? I don't think so.

[braincramp52]

38 minutes ago, tannyhoban said:

ZetEx Seven! They still have the funky sole dammit. Sure are pretty.

 

What was it that you didn't like about the sole design tanny?

[tannyhoban]

8 minutes ago, braincramp52 said:

 

What was it that you didn't like about the sole design 

 

Visually at setup. Firm fairways leading edge sits too high. Soft fairways they were very spotty for my swing. Could never find the correct impact path. Three rounds in I knew I couldn't make them work. They were the Z545. 

[MtlJeff]

The new ZX5 irons look right up MtlJeff's alley, gonna have to check those out

[braincramp52]

1 hour ago, MtlJeff said:

The new ZX5 irons look right up MtlJeff's alley, gonna have to check those out

 

🤣 MtJeff has turned into Jack Pearsall!!

[RogerinNewZealand]

So why not just use ClevelandGolf as their Brand.Its like after 2013 when had Huge success with Drivers etc they swapped to pushing Srixon.

[Oh Hi Carl]

Finally one mention of Matsuyama.  Saw a bunch of references to Shane on the first page and was wondering where the love is for Matsuyama.  With how great he strikes his irons, I'm surprised everyone doesn't run out and demo Srixons after watching him. 

 

As for the Kia comment.  That's totally a misperception.  Srixons are absolutely as good quality as TM, Titleist, Ping, Cally.  I also really like the Z Stars and Q stars.  

 

I've played a bunch of Srixons and currently own the 545s and U45.  Absolyelt love the 5 series irons shape of head more so than the recent ones.  Also love Pings.  Srixons are so good, I can't believe word hasn't spread about them more in the US.  I have always heard that they focus their marketing budget in Asia much more than in the US, and the comments above seem to support that.  

 

Here's my one anecdote about Srixon marketing/outreach in the US.  A year ago, I went to my local golf shop (big store like Golf Galaxy) but only one location.  Was glad to see the Srixon rep there.  He was a young guy probably in his mid 20s.  He said he was the rep for the area and was eager to hear about my love of the irons.  He gave me his card and told me to email him which Srixon balls I like and he'd send me a coupon for a free sleeve.  Next day I emailed him and told him it was great to see him at the store and told him which balls I like.  A month later, I hadn't gotten a response, so I emailed him again (checking his email address).  That was a year ago.  Guy dropped off the planet.  Maybe that explains part of their marketing problem.  

 

 

 

  

[caniac6]

I have played the balls, and like them.Never seen the clubs at the local Golf Galaxy. When we had some local shops, I would see the clubs, and they really looked good, but the days of the local shop are long gone around here.

[ChipNRun]

 

1 hour ago, RogerinNewZealand said:

So why not just use ClevelandGolf as their Brand.Its like after 2013 when had Huge success with Drivers etc they swapped to pushing Srixon.

 

In their golf lines, SRI Sports has separate divisions, whereas other companies just have in-house differentiations by multiple models.

 

As mentioned earlier, SRI Sports has Srixon for competition and serious (?) golfers, and Cleveland more for recreational golfers, and people who want excellent wedges. Then, XXIO provides really high-end custom golf clubs.

 

Other companies tend have everything under one name, and slice-and-dice by product models. For simplicity sake, I'll only address irons:

 

• Mizuno: MP line for competitive, JPX more for Game Improvement. Some overlap on hybrids.

 

• Callaway: Goes by combo of price points and skill level of player.
  • Epic - high end, $300+ per iron
  • Apex - mid-high, $180 per iron (GI and Players sub-models)
  • Big Bertha B21 - mid-high, super game improvement, targeting beginners who want quick "good play"
  • Mavrik - midprice.. MavMAX, SGI with precision /  base Mav - GI / Mav Pro: Player's club
  • Entry-level Legacy: Rogue X (reissued as boxed set 5-AW for ~$600)

 

• Ping: model splitout centers around i (Players and Players Distance) and G (GI and SGI). From harder to easier...
  • Ping BluePrint, iBlade, i210, i500
  • Ping G410, G710, G Le2
    • Note: Ping G410 in company's "center of universe" model

 

What does this all mean? We're dealing with a strategy concept called equifinality, meaning there are multiple pathways to the same end. Companies use different organizational structure and classification systems to achieve the same thing - sell golf clubs.

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by ChipNRun
Re-post logo images.

[Prodot]

LOL on the Kia comparison.  I just bought a used set of 585/785 irons and they almost looked brand new. 

 

EPON's forging quality is legendary and I think Srixon irons show higher quality/durability than the big brands all of which I have played.

[ChipNRun]

52 minutes ago, Sonja Henie said:

  Was glad to see the Srixon rep there.  He was a young guy probably in his mid 20s. ... he'd send me a coupon for a free sleeve.  ...  That was a year ago.  Guy dropped off the planet.  Maybe that explains part of their marketing problem.  

 

A few years ago Srixon had a super rep - late 20s - in the Midwest region. In one year, I ran into him at StL Golf Expo, a local golf shop and another in mid-Missouri. And, he always picked up the conversation where we left off the prior time.

 

He knew all the equipment inside out, and explained clearly the splitout among Srixon, Callaway and XXIO. Then, I heard word from the shop owners that the rep's CPA wife had landed a high $$$ corporate job in Texas, and our guy was bowing out of the upper Midwest.

A year later, I was at a fourth shop when a Srixon etc. manager shows up with a young female rep. She was personable and attentive, but seemed to be from a sports merchandising vs. golf background. I imagine it would take awhile for her to match her predecessor.

 

What this means? Srixon etc. is a smaller operation compared to TM and Callaway, and if SRI loses a key player it's hard to replace.

 

I would suggest that Bridgestone has the same problem. 

 

[RogerinNewZealand]

Re xxio,thanks,forgot about them!So its a GM... Buick Chevy Caddy and Saturn our future winner.Im a HUGE Tourstage Fan, and basically Bridgestone are a Ball Company now.Great too hear Srixon forgings/ build quality are high.Thats the Japanese/Toyota/Lexus way .

[Bubbtubbs]

19 hours ago, golf4fun said:

Too funny, was a titleist guy forever and bought the 765s and now have 2 sets of the 785s!  Ford guy forever as well and just bought a KIA telluride!! Post just made me laugh!!

I read somewhere Kia poached some designers from VW Group a few years ago, which is why their cars have started to really look sharp. It fits - several of them have an Audi-esque vibe to them.

[rgk5]

On 11/26/2020 at 6:28 AM, hypergolf said:

I switched from Mizuno irons to Srixon last year. I realized that apparently Srixon is considered an underdog brand even though it seems quite popular amongst golfers and performs well compared to some of the big brands.

 

Why is that? Is it because of cheaper price or brand recognition is not at the level of the Titleist, Callaway etc? 

 

Srixon is extremely popular in Asia but seems a bit behind in Anglo countries. Anyone know the reason?

Srixon sells very well in Canada, particularly as a custom fit.

[kiwihacker]

Cleveland has always had a strong presence in NZ and I notice our tour pros are now playing the Cleveland/Srixon brand.

 

XXIO has always been a bit of a mystery to me. Really expensive clubs for basically game improvement clubs. Normally GI clubs are at the lower end of the price spectrum and players clubs tend to be at the higher end. Not sure what is supposed to be so great about them for the exorbitant cost.

 

Having said that Srixon is very competitively priced, just as Cleveland used to be, and I'm very interested in the new ZX irons. Just can't decide whether to play a full set of ZX5s or have a mixed ZX5/7 set. 

 

Of course the Cleveland wedges are still very highly regarded. 

[kiwihacker]

17 hours ago, Strategery said:

 

Laugh all you want, but Srixon is a terrible brand name for the west.

How is it worse than say Mizuno?

[kiwihacker]

On 11/27/2020 at 7:03 AM, ChipNRun said:

This is the basic story. Srixon was big in Europe for many years. In a series of shuffles and mergers circa 2007, the Sumito Rubber Industries Ltd. of Japan ended up with SRI Sports, which focuses on tennis and golf equipment. Current SRI golf holdings:

• Srixon: Focuses on clubs for more serious golfers, and a full range of golf balls.
• Cleveland: Focuses on clubs for everyday, plus maintains the top-rate wedge family.
• XXIO: High-end custom golf clubs.

A few years ago at the St. Louis Golf Expo, I had a detailed conversation with the regional rep for Srixon. He confirmed the market segmentation, discussed above, between Srixon and Cleveland.

 

Last few years, Cleveland has reemphasized its iron and long club offerings. Since the arrival of the Launcher CBX irons in 2018, Cleveland is bumping into Srixon in the Game-Improvement market.

 

A merchandise manager and fitter at a local golf shop talked about the CBX arrival. He said a dozen golfers that spring came into the shop for a Callaway or TaylorMade fitting, but ended up ordering the CBX instead.

I've been toying with the idea of moving to a bigger, chunkier more game improvement iron like say the G410 but the Cleveland CBX caught my eye as a good club to experiment with as they are about half the price of the Pings. At least here in NZ they are. Decent offering from Cleveland? 

[Oh Hi Carl]

45 minutes ago, kiwihacker said:

Cleveland has always had a strong presence in NZ and I notice our tour pros are now playing the Cleveland/Srixon brand.

 

XXIO has always been a bit of a mystery to me. Really expensive clubs for basically game improvement clubs. Normally GI clubs are at the lower end of the price spectrum and players clubs tend to be at the higher end. Not sure what is supposed to be so great about them for the exorbitant cost.

 

Having said that Srixon is very competitively priced, just as Cleveland used to be, and I'm very interested in the new ZX irons. Just can't decide whether to play a full set of ZX5s or have a mixed ZX5/7 set. 

 

Of course the Cleveland wedges are still very highly regarded. 

The ZX5s and ZX7s look almost identical to me.  They were obviously designed with the mixed set in mind.  Seems it would be very easy to blend them.  I have blades but I also have 545s 4-PW.  On days when I feel like playing the 545s, I have no longing for a mixed set.  They are awesome from 4 to PW.  I'm sure I'd be very happy with a straight set of ZX5s, but you should definitely try them both out before deciding whether to blend them. 

[Springbok45]

Further to XXIO being expensive game improvement clubs, originally they were the premium line (think Lexus to Toyota) now they are aimed at the wealthy older business man, flash clubs for declining capabilities, hence you see the guys on the regular tours with the Srixon/Cleveland branding and you've got Ernie heading into/now on the champions tour rocking the XXIO bag full of 7 series irons and utilities, he does have the woods though.

[kiwihacker]

1 hour ago, Sonja Henie said:

The ZX5s and ZX7s look almost identical to me.  They were obviously designed with the mixed set in mind.  Seems it would be very easy to blend them.  I have blades but I also have 545s 4-PW.  On days when I feel like playing the 545s, I have no longing for a mixed set.  They are awesome from 4 to PW.  I'm sure I'd be very happy with a straight set of ZX5s, but you should definitely try them both out before deciding whether to blend them. 

Thanks. I was close to getting the full set of ZX5 but hear such great things about the 7 that it seems worth trying them as part of a blended set. The other appeal of the 7s is that they are a degree weaker in the mid irons and 2 degrees weaker in the 9 iron and pitching wedge. A 46° pitching wedge is much closer to what I'm used to. The full 5-PW in the 5 series is basically equivalent to my current 4-9.

 

How do you find the pitching wedge in the 545 plays compared to your blades? At 44° it just seems a little strong for my liking. 

[ChipNRun]

5 hours ago, kiwihacker said:

XXIO has always been a bit of a mystery to me. Really expensive clubs for basically game improvement clubs. Normally GI clubs are at the lower end of the price spectrum and players clubs tend to be at the higher end. Not sure what is supposed to be so great about them for the exorbitant cost.

 

XXIO clubs are highly customized for everyday golfers with a bit of money to spare. XXIO clubs are definitely above average in cost, but

not as high-priced as PXG and some of the high-end levels of Japanese-source clubs. For example, Honma sells a 4-Star Driver for $1,875.

 

Price comparison:

Driver

* XXIO Eleven $649 // Calla Epic Star Flash $699

Irons

*  XXIO X 4i-PW $1575 // Epic Star Forged 5-AW $2275

 

Got to meet XXIO designers first hand at the 2016 PGA Merchandise Show. (This was one-time assignment, I'm hardly a regular.).

 

The Srixon rep I mentioned earlier introduced me to one of the XXIO club designers. You might call him the Elon Musk of club design. Anyway, XXIO offers highly customized golf clubs for golfers who have $$ to spare.

 

An interesting idea at the time: XXIO declined to use adjustability - or even shaft upgrades - in its drivers and fairway woods. XXIO instead used a matrix: For a driver design, they had three heads with different set lofts, and then specified shaft flexes. They would fit you, and then sell you the driver from the 12-cell matrix (if I remember right)  that you hit best.

 

The designer argued that building clubs with adjustable loft heads and a wide array of shafts spoiled "the balance of the club" and did more harm than good. (Not sure about their 2020 policy on this)

 

XXIO also was out front with some of the superlight (40-something) gram shafts in clubs.

 

I test-hit some of the hybrid combinations. But what I would want and what he recommended for me were quite different. Another difference is the amount of money I am willing to spend on a hybrid.

 

XXIO are above average in cost. But, if you like their clubs and can benefit from their customization, go for it.

Edited November 28, 2020 by ChipNRun
Align picture.

[Strategery]

6 hours ago, rgk5 said:

Srixon sells very well in Canada, particularly as a custom fit.

 

No, it doesn't.