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Anyone else consider giving up the rangefinder.


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20 minutes ago, brew4eagle said:

3 footer, that's high expectations.  Also assumes that you are always left with a # to the pin that exactly matches up with a full approach shot.  Part of the reason I'm just fine with gps F/M/B (as a high single digit HC) is that while I know my distances on full shots within +/- 5 yds or so for approaches, I very rarely have that exact # to the pin anyways, so there's always a good amount of educated guessing going on (uphill/downhill, wind, temperature, full vs 3/4 shot, etc.).  I find the gps F/M/B actually gets me better into this mindset vs. an exact laser reading.  Also keeps me out of the trap of chasing pins vs taking in all of the important info.

 

I don't believe I suggested "within 3 feet" was my "expectation". If I did I apologize. And it happens far too seldom. It's a reasonable "hope" though and a "goal" - if everything comes together.

 

Of course there's educated guessing going on. It's a "formula". And that formula includes wind and other environmental conditions (elevation for one), including a swing that's often "not exactly" full. Or consistent.

 

You say you're an 8 and you know your distances +/- 5 yards ? So if you have a 130 club it can go 125 or 135 on a really good strike ? I'd say for an 8 that's a rather large margin of error, again, assuming a full swing and a center strike.

 

In any case, the "formula" starts with the correct numbers. If you start with the wrong distance you'd only get the formula right by chance. I'm a mid-single digit as well but I DO know that my full, solidly struck 7 iron goes 152 +/- 1 yard. I expect that same swing speed is within about 1-2 mph as well (LM doesn't give SS).

 

And of course that assumes all the human mechanics work - which doesn't happen nearly often enough to suit us. But again, the formula has to have as close to exact numbers as possible to have a chance at success.

 

Won't bother going into the "power of positive thinking" and "focus" but If a hole runs to the west and I want to hit it west I can do that pretty easily. If there's a bunker in the right rough in my driving area I can no longer "just" hit it west now, can I ?  :classic_cool:

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17 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

I don't believe I suggested "within 3 feet" was my "expectation". If I did I apologize. And it happens far too seldom. It's a reasonable "hope" though and a "goal" - if everything comes together.

 

Of course there's educated guessing going on. It's a "formula". And that formula includes wind and other environmental conditions (elevation for one), including a swing that's often "not exactly" full. Or consistent.

 

You say you're an 8 and you know your distances +/- 5 yards ? So if you have a 130 club it can go 125 or 135 on a really good strike ? I'd say for an 8 that's a rather large margin of error, again, assuming a full swing and a center strike.

 

In any case, the "formula" starts with the correct numbers. If you start with the wrong distance you'd only get the formula right by chance. I'm a mid-single digit as well but I DO know that my full, solidly struck 7 iron goes 152 +/- 1 yard. I expect that same swing speed is within about 1-2 mph as well (LM doesn't give SS).

 

And of course that assumes all the human mechanics work - which doesn't happen nearly often enough to suit us. But again, the formula has to have as close to exact numbers as possible to have a chance at success.

 

Won't bother going into the "power of positive thinking" and "focus" but If a hole runs to the west and I want to hit it west I can do that pretty easily. If there's a bunker in the right rough in my driving area I can no longer "just" hit it west now, can I ?  :classic_cool:

I guess on a 'really good strike' that 130 club is going to go around 127 to 133, the way I look at it though is that really good strike' is only going to happen about 1/2 the time during the actual on course shot.  So my expectation on a given shot is around that +/- 5 yds I had mentioned, maybe more.  Now, set me up at 130 with a bag of balls and that margin of error will tighten a lot.

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2 hours ago, nsxguy said:

 

Forgetting for a moment that the laser is more precise than a GPS device, if you're the type of player where "anywhere within 5 yards is good enough", the GPS with the moving pin is just fine.

 

But if you're single digits or better you want THE number as you know, within a yard or so, just how far your X iron goes and if you hit it on the button you want a 3 footer at most.

 

The GPS that shows FMB doesn't necessarily give the better player that (1 yard) precision even if he can move the pin because often one can't tell where the pin is within an acceptable margin of error.

 

Where the pin actually is, even within a 10 yard section of the green isn't always obvious, especially with flatter greens at eye height or any green that is above eye height. And even if you CAN see the entire green it's very difficult from a football field away or more to tell if it's 1 5, or 10 yards into a specific section.

So, true and hence the reason I use both.  🙂. The laser to get the most accurate distance and then move the pin on my SX500 to that general area which gives me a better idea of what I am working with. So, long story short.... I won't be giving up my rangefinder nor my SX500 anytime soon especially on courses I am unfamiliar with!

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On 12/2/2020 at 8:54 PM, 5baytjd said:

I wonder what a GPS watch would have shown you from that spot what the yardages are for FMB.

Fenix 5x gives F, M, B yardages, and if you push the button a few times, yardage to a hazard in line from where you stand to the green, nothing else to speak of.  GPS watch is more for those that like to glance at a few numbers and not overwhelmed with details or data.

 

Garmin's A82 GPS/Laser provides considerably more detail or data, including a full hole image on left, plus wind direction (connects to your iphone) with various yardages or image of green outline, plus wind direction and exact laser yardage to what ever you point it at, including on/off +/- elevation all in the view finder, even allows the user to keep hole scores.  Pretty amazing tool.  I was looking a green from the fairway last weekend and didn't see much if any elevation, so was ready to pull a club when I decided to use A82, it said it was up 6yds, combined with the wind it meant one more club.  I went from 7 to 6.

 

What I am learning from A82, my visual assessments have grown a tad lazy or off, due to yardages of Fenix 5x at a glance.  Not paying close attention to details.  That means I might hit the front of green or come up short of the green, cause visually I missed seeing the combined affects of elevation at distance and conditions.  On a large size green that could mean miss by as much as two-clubs.  Amazing.

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Well, since I first posted this, I've played about 5 or 6 rounds on a couple of different courses without touching my rangefinder (caveat is that I have played these courses before), and I've found I'm at least as accurate as I am when I use it, though I'd guess I'm actually hitting more greens.  Granted, I'm the type of golfer who, when the guy in the clubhouse tells me the pin positions for the day, I just laugh and respond that all I want is the green position.  So, while I have no intention of taking the rangefinder out of the bag 'just in case', I'll continue to play without it for now.  I really think that using it makes me try to be too precise in my club selection, whereas not using it kind of frees me up to just pick what looks like it might work.  For whatever reason, I think I tend to under-club with the rangefinder in use.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I use both but a free GPS phone app is far more useful. I play lots of different and often new courses and hit the ball far. I never know where to aim off the tee and a rangefinder wouldn't help much. But the GPS helps me see exactly where to aim and how to plan out a hole. 

 

If I had to get rid of one by far the laser would be it

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10 hours ago, xetremex said:

I don't think I could give mine up.  I also use Arccos sensors which the app is very useful while playing.  It has wind adjustment now so it gives yardage range based on wind direction/speed.

 

Just as an FYI, IIRC, using your app to give you wind adjustments is contrary to the Rules of golf. Similar to using the slope function on a rangefinder.

 

If you're a casual player and don't care about competing in competitions and/or your handicap being accurate/legitimate, there's nothing to worry" about. Enjoy. Have fun. 👍

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12 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Just as an FYI, IIRC, using your app to give you wind adjustments is contrary to the Rules of golf. Similar to using the slope function on a rangefinder.

 

If you're a casual player and don't care about competing in competitions and/or your handicap being accurate/legitimate, there's nothing to worry" about. Enjoy. Have fun. 👍

There is a tournament mode to turn all wind and club suggestions off when competing in legitimate events. 

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2 hours ago, xetremex said:

There is a tournament mode to turn all wind and club suggestions off when competing in legitimate events. 

 

Seems to be some question as to whether or not that's good enough.

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/equipment-standards/usgara-joint-statement-on-electronic-devices-including-distancemeasuring-devices-21474847526.html

 

Edited to add - The link above MAY be outdated and no longer applicable. golow's post/link below appears to be accurate and more up to date.

 

 

 

 

Edited by nsxguy

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16 minutes ago, golow said:

Turning off slope was good enough in 2020 in state and USGA Event in our state 

 

https://www.usga.org/content/dam/usga/pdf/2019/rules/2019_UPDATE_USGA_DMD_FINAL.pdf

 

This was handed out

 

Thanks, that is very helpful.

 

I'm finding some conflicting information with the link I posted earlier and will look into it a bit more.

 

Thanks again

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I just purchased a Bushnell V5 slope, it's the first time with a rangefinder. I love having it, and would buy another if I needed one. It is a great tool.

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1 hour ago, nsxguy said:

 

Seems to be some question as to whether or not that's good enough.

 

https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/equipment-standards/usgara-joint-statement-on-electronic-devices-including-distancemeasuring-devices-21474847526.html

 

Edited to add - The link above MAY be outdated and no longer applicable. golow's post/link below appears to be accurate and more up to date.

 

 

 

 

 

https://support.arccosgolf.com/hc/en-us/articles/360036802111-Is-Arccos-Caddie-tournament-legal-

Edited by xetremex
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  • 1 month later...
On 12/2/2020 at 6:44 PM, Pepperturbo said:

If I were buying today, I'd buy the Fenix 6x Pro.  It has improved Health Monitoring functions and Dual grid coordinates.  May have to give mine to my son and buy 6x. 😛

 

Pepper, Thanks for your input on the Fenix. I ended up getting the 6 Pro and love it! Hiking, biking and ski functions and all the fitness functions. The built in maps are awesome. It has trail maps for over 2,000 ski resorts and hiking/biking trails all built in... Amazing and I haven't scratched the surface of its capabilities! The battery is ridiculously good. It's a huge step up from my Vivoactive 3 which I really liked. I won't use it for golf till April but it has everything I want; preloaded courses, score keeping, full maps and shot tracking and more. 

 

I'm pretty cheap with myself but my wonderful wife basically ordered me to buy it (she's a great woman!). 

 

Thank you sir for your input. 

Edited by BlackDiamondPar5
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8 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Pepper, Thanks for your input on the Fenix. I ended up getting the 6 Pro and love it! Hiking, biking and ski functions and all the fitness functions. The built in maps are awesome. It has trail maps for over 2,000 ski resorts and hiking/biking trails all built in... Amazing and I haven't scratched the surface of its capabilities! The battery is ridiculously good. It's a huge step up from my Vivoactive 3 which I really liked. I won't use it for golf till April but it has everything I want; preloaded courses, score keeping, full maps and shot tracking and more. 

 

I'm pretty cheap with myself but my wonderful wife basically ordered me to buy it (she's a great woman!). 

 

Thank you sir for your input. 

Did Garmin ever fix their issue with incorrect altitude?  Bad problem with the Vivoactive 3.  Does the Fenix keep correct altitude?

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18 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Did Garmin ever fix their issue with incorrect altitude?  Bad problem with the Vivoactive 3.  Does the Fenix keep correct altitude?

Yes the Fenix 6 does a great job with altitude whereas the VA3 is terrible. I only need to calibrate the Fenix when the barometric pressure changes, which is totally normal... like in an airplane.  They give you 4 ways to calibrate it... if you know the elevation where your standing, local barometric pressure, GPS which gives a 3D fix or GPS/DEM 2D fix. GPS DEM only requires a 2D fix and then knows the mapped elevation at that location. 

 

Is it perfect? No idea but it's light years better than the VA3.

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3 minutes ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Yes the Fenix 6 does a great job with altitude whereas the VA3 is terrible. I only need to calibrate the Fenix when the barometric pressure changes, which is totally normal... like in an airplane.  They give you 4 ways to calibrate it... if you know the elevation where your standing, local barometric pressure, GPS which gives a 3D fix or GPS/DEM 2D fix. GPS DEM only requires a 2D fix and then knows the mapped elevation at that location. 

 

Is it perfect? No idea but it's light years better than the VA3.

Sounds great!  That is all they needed with the VA3.  Change the software to allow a GPS cal of the altitude.  Mine is currently off over 3000 feet.  Beyond stupid.  Thanks for the info.

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1 minute ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Sounds great!  That is all they needed with the VA3.  Change the software to allow a GPS cal of the altitude.  Mine is currently off over 3000 feet.  Beyond stupid.  Thanks for the info.

No problem.  The other issue with the VA3 is the port for detecting air pressure is on the edge and is easily blocked by the wrist, especially when bent like when riding a bike or even sweat.  It also gets skin and dirt in it.  You can try cleaning it out by letting warm water run through it for a bit.  Also the only way to calibrate it is to go outside and turn on the GPS (walking, running or biking etc) and wait for 30 seconds after it gets a GPS fix then it should auto-calibrate the altimeter.  The problem I always found is that it drifted quickly and was basically useless.  

 

 

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1 minute ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

No problem.  The other issue with the VA3 is the port for detecting air pressure is on the edge and is easily blocked by the wrist, especially when bent like when riding a bike or even sweat.  It also gets skin and dirt in it.  You can try cleaning it out by letting warm water run through it for a bit.  Also the only way to calibrate it is to go outside and turn on the GPS (walking, running or biking etc) and wait for 30 seconds after it gets a GPS fix then it should auto-calibrate the altimeter.  The problem I always found is that it drifted quickly and was basically useless.  

 

 

Mine won't auto-calibrate with GPS for some reason.  I have activated GPS several times hoping the alt would update.  It has never worked.

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5 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Mine won't auto-calibrate with GPS for some reason.  I have activated GPS several times hoping the alt would update.  It has never worked.

Bummer. It was definitely a weakness in the product.  You could always do a hard reset if you haven't tried that yet.

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I thought everyone on golfwrx only played courses with yardages front, back, middle and pin built into the golf cart gps but really though, rangefinder is a very helpful tool and speeds up pace of play. I've been thinking lately I need one that has slope built into it so I can start learning more how slope plays a factor in distance. 

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1 hour ago, Redjeep83 said:

I thought everyone on golfwrx only played courses with yardages front, back, middle and pin built into the golf cart gps but really though, rangefinder is a very helpful tool and speeds up pace of play. I've been thinking lately I need one that has slope built into it so I can start learning more how slope plays a factor in distance. 

it's strange, I thought I would use the slope feature often, but not so. I can't use it in tournament play, and I find I don't use it that often in casual play. Although, I think I will start using it more to be able to judge the slope for when in tournament play.

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I have recently given up the rangefinder for a GPS watch.  I found knowing F/M/B versus knowing exact numbers has helped me minimize errors (less thinking during the swing for me).

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On 11/27/2020 at 10:54 PM, Soloman1 said:

Not only did we not have range finders, we had to walk off distances from 150 yard bushes and sprinkler heads of courses that had them marked.

 

The horror!

 

How did ever survive? And we walked. Can you imagine walking a golf course?

 

And we had to change balls every few holes because those pesky Balata Tour 100's would get out of round. I don't know how we did it. It was like humans crossing from Asia to North America by walking down through Alaska.

 

But wait, there's more. Now how much would you pay for this? You also get the ginsu knives!

 

We had wooden clubs! Can you imagine that?

 

And if that's not enough, we had leather, heavy shoes that looked like this:

 

 

metalspikes.jpeg

Careful! You could get the "scram BOOMER!" response!

Yes, 1970s for me. I had leather soles with spikes, walking proudly with my white, original Jones carry bag with Northwestern Blades and Balata Tours. Playing Seattle courses rain or shine, from the tips, because we belonged there (distant memories).

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3 hours ago, BlackDiamondPar5 said:

Yes the Fenix 6 does a great job with altitude whereas the VA3 is terrible. I only need to calibrate the Fenix when the barometric pressure changes, which is totally normal... like in an airplane.  They give you 4 ways to calibrate it... if you know the elevation where your standing, local barometric pressure, GPS which gives a 3D fix or GPS/DEM 2D fix. GPS DEM only requires a 2D fix and then knows the mapped elevation at that location. 

 

Is it perfect? No idea but it's light years better than the VA3.

Yes - but it still doesn't reset quickly.  Yesterday playing golf it said max was 425' altitude, got home knowing it needed to adjust to over 1100', but didn't.  Sometimes reactivating GPS doesn't do the trick.  So, after a bit, I simply use the turn-off button, waited a minute then turned it back on - allowing it to reset, and it did. 

Edited by Pepperturbo
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41 minutes ago, Steelhead said:

Careful! You could get the "scram BOOMER!" response!

Yes, 1970s for me. I had leather soles with spikes, walking proudly with my white, original Jones carry bag with Northwestern Blades and Balata Tours. Playing Seattle courses rain or shine, from the tips, because we belonged there (distant memories).

Maybe we should just go back to 70's technology in all aspects of life, but I doubt people would go for that. Let's get rid of smart phones, gps watches/devices, use balata balls, persimmon woods, blades, uncomfortable fake leather golf shoes(spiked), etc. I don't want to walk off yardages at my age, and it also slows the game down. Now the best option for today's golfer is to have both, a gps watch and a rangefinder.

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      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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