This is a topic that will irritate you, but make your handicap go down.

[ThinkingPlus]

2 minutes ago, Obee said:

We're almost twinsies!!!

You still move it out there a bit further than I.  If I don't have firm fairways my driver drops a good bit.  Getting old.

[Obee]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I understand.  The two big reasons that kept me off the tour....attempting 115 yard LW’s with a balata ball.  No go to driver shot when I wasn’t swinging well.  Still struggle with number 2.

 

In your playing days, how many wedges would you say you ripped off greens and/or into bunkers/hazards from overswinging/overspinning?

[Roejye]

Before my last 2 rounds a good driver was about 230-240

PW is 100-110

[Gsea]

Driver 235

PW 100, if i'm at the 100 yd marker I'm salivating .

 

Hogan watched Jody Vazquez hit 165 yd 8 irons once and told him you can't play good golf hitting your 8 iron that far and that was in the sixties. 

Happened a month ago at our course guy in the group aced a 130yd par 3, used a 7 iron.  Big hitter was in the green side bunker with a SW.

[berndgeurts]

Driver 220m Carry, 235m Total (yards 240 Carry, 260 Total)

PW 110m (121 yards)

 

Working on shortening backswing right now. Agree that if more people focused on accuracy instead of distance, scores would go down. 

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

3 minutes ago, Gsea said:

Driver 235

PW 100, if i'm at the 100 yd marker I'm salivating .

 

Hogan watched Jody Vazquez hit 165 yd 8 irons once and told him you can't play good golf hitting your 8 iron that far and that was in the sixties. 

Happened a month ago at our course guy in the group aced a 130yd par 3, used a 7 iron.  Big hitter was in the green side bunker with a SW.

Unless you’re out driving Bryson, hitting sw 130 under normal conditions is ego and abject stupidity. 

[Gsea]

1 minute ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Unless you’re out driving Bryson, hitting sw 130 under normal conditions is ego and abject stupidity. 

I know that was my point. 

[b.mattay]

This thread is awesome. This change in thinking was a big part of me going from a 6-7 to a +1-+2 in two years. I leave 25ish yards in the tank with a PW most shots and my proximity is noticeably better.

[CasualLie]

I often find going after a wedge to stretch the distance is almost guaranteed to come in too steep, and nothing good happens coming in too steep.

 

I just have to remind myself of this when playing and the adrenaline is flowing.

 

To me, with a short club I just don't see how the odds are in your favor to come in shallow when you are trying to nuke it.  If you are swinging a wedge to a full backswing it just seems like the timing will be all off.

Edited November 29, 2020 by CasualLie

[DaveMc82]

Average UK distances are driver 260 carry and PW 115. 
 

When I’m in the US driver 280 carry and PW 120. 
 

2 reasons for the difference. Firstly the UK climate brings my carry down 5 yards on average. Secondly the fairways are half the width or narrower than most of the US layouts I see. Very rarely I can fully go after a driver in the UK. 

 

@MonteScheinblum you’ll see far more players UK side doing what you advocate. Reason being that the wind almost never stops and hitting high is a fools game. You also learn to hit the fast stopping shots at a lower trajectory to stand a chance of holding the green. Its the reason I see UK players doing so well at the masters when it’s played at the normal time of year. 
 

What I don’t understand is hitting the flat out super high wedge unless you’ve got to come in over the trees from where you hit your drive onto the adjacent hole. 
 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

3 hours ago, Gsea said:

I know that was my point. 

Yep I was agreeing with you

[milesgiles]

6 hours ago, dhacker56 said:

How was I being a "jackals" ?  I was asking to find out.  sorry I am not as smart as some others.  Do you have an answer or are you just being obtuse?

 

 

I used to be on a bodybuilding message board where pro’s would contribute until they got tired of abuse by trolls, so they would leave.

if you do the same to pro golfers/teachers, they will do the same. I don’t know if anyone moderates here, but carry on and I’ll be happy to find out 

[TheDeanAbides]

7 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The thread on punch shots made me think of  discussing this.  So I just wanted to get some examples to show how golfers hit their wedges way too hard and too far and it makes it more difficult to manage distance because trajectory and spin are not consistent.  Almost without exception, golfers over the handicap of 0 improve their proximity when they hit more club,  with a shorter backswing, with less speed and keep trajectory and spin down on most shots.  
 

There’s no world long wedge contest, they are made for accuracy not distance.  You ever notice how higher level players have much shorter swings on wedges than driver?  Most of you know that even though I’m an old fat man, I can carry a driver 3 bills without much trouble, yet my PW is 130-135.  140 is NEVER a PW unless there is an extenuating circumstance.  

 

Whenever I have this discussion with people, here are the comments I get and what I respond.

 

1.  “I can easily hit it that far, that’s my stock PW.”  I don’t doubt you can, but why would you want to?

 

2.  “I’m a very good wedge player.”  I don’t doubt it, but you’re not on the PGA and even they are trying to be better.

 

3.  “I don’t do well hitting partial wedges.”  It’s not always a partial wedge, it managing the length of your swing better because it’s too long.

 

4.  “Tour players hit their wedges far, and high.”  Yes, but they are skilled enough and practice to manage trajectory, distance and spin...and have you every watched carefully at how many lower trajectory shots they hit inside 150 on the range and course?

 

5.  “The greens at my course are firm and I need to do that to hit it close to tucked pins.”  See Scott Fawcett’s thoughts on going for the pin.

 

Learn to hit all your short irons 2 clubs shorter than what you think you hit now with a shorter backswing.  This is especially helpful for those with excess arm swing in their backswing, but even if you go back to your full yardage, you’ll have another shot in your bag, but most will find a much better level of consistency not trying to hit short irons full (max distance).

I've been trying to tell my buddy this. He can hit a 60* wedge 120 yards, but it's with a long drive swing that he can't control. 

 

My driver carries 230-240 and I hit my 48* PW 120 With a controlled swing. 

[TheDeanAbides]

7 hours ago, dlow206 said:

I really need to work on shortening my backswing and my awareness. What feels like a left arm parallel swing to me actually ends up being a full backswing on video.

There's a post on Monte's Instagram account about this. And on his blog actually. Basically, 50% of your practice needs to be on this exact shot because if you can't control your backswing length you can't make any meaningful changes. 

 

I've been doing this and it really helps. 

[80sFredriksson]

Say I am 115 yards out to the center of the green and I have the choice between a full pw or shortened 9 or 8 assuming  no wind and I dont struggle with overspinning it. My pitch stays where it lands on my homecourse greens, what club is the best choice?

[getitdaily]

Driver carry 270. 285-290 normal rollout.

 

Pw stock is 135

 

I'm a big fan of trajectory control and spin control with wedges. There are only a few times I'll hit a hard wedge:

 

1. The distance is 5-7 yards longer than my stock full shot AND the shot plays downwind. That 3/4 wedge that gets knocked down by a tailwind is a bummer. 

2. The yardage is a perfect stock shot, there's a lot of room behind the pin, and leaving the shot short is worse than long. 

3. Pin is left. A hard, flighted wedge with some left spin will funnel close.  But even for this shot it's rarely a full wedge. Hard 3/4 wedge will spin enough. 

 

Edited November 29, 2020 by getitdaily

[br61]

9 hours ago, crazygolfnut said:

 

I played with JC in a tournament, hellva player and great guy.

 

Anyway, back on topic, I carry my drives around 250 yards. Hit my PW between 105-125 depending on the shot called for. I'm 59.

Edited November 29, 2020 by br61

[Sean2]

190 off the tee, 110 with the PW...which is the only wedge I will make a full swing with. All the other wedges are half/three-quarter shots. 

 

Moving up to the senior tees this year has helped. 🙂

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Driver 350 

Pw 450 not that great but whatrvrr

[golfsticks]

 What's irritating about the topic?

[GoTime]

what did @MonteScheinblum get into yesterday afternoon? Some thanksgiving bourbon?

[braincramp52]

Thank you so much for this thread Monte. It gives my game some credence since I've always practiced what you 're preaching! My buddies used to give me crap when I'd be hitting a 7 iron and they'd be hitting 9. If people would just let their egos get out of the way most would be better golfers. That's a tough thing to do when every manufacturer is screaming about distance.

[bluedot]

12 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The thread on punch shots made me think of  discussing this.  So I just wanted to get some examples to show how golfers hit their wedges way too hard and too far and it makes it more difficult to manage distance because trajectory and spin are not consistent.  Almost without exception, golfers over the handicap of 0 improve their proximity when they hit more club,  with a shorter backswing, with less speed and keep trajectory and spin down on most shots.  
 

There’s no world long wedge contest, they are made for accuracy not distance.  You ever notice how higher level players have much shorter swings on wedges than driver?  Most of you know that even though I’m an old fat man, I can carry a driver 3 bills without much trouble, yet my PW is 130-135.  140 is NEVER a PW unless there is an extenuating circumstance.  

 

Whenever I have this discussion with people, here are the comments I get and what I respond.

 

1.  “I can easily hit it that far, that’s my stock PW.”  I don’t doubt you can, but why would you want to?

 

2.  “I’m a very good wedge player.”  I don’t doubt it, but you’re not on the PGA and even they are trying to be better.

 

3.  “I don’t do well hitting partial wedges.”  It’s not always a partial wedge, it managing the length of your swing better because it’s too long.

 

4.  “Tour players hit their wedges far, and high.”  Yes, but they are skilled enough and practice to manage trajectory, distance and spin...and have you every watched carefully at how many lower trajectory shots they hit inside 150 on the range and course?

 

5.  “The greens at my course are firm and I need to do that to hit it close to tucked pins.”  See Scott Fawcett’s thoughts on going for the pin.

 

Learn to hit all your short irons 2 clubs shorter than what you think you hit now with a shorter backswing.  This is especially helpful for those with excess arm swing in their backswing, but even if you go back to your full yardage, you’ll have another shot in your bag, but most will find a much better level of consistency not trying to hit short irons full (max distance).

 

What a great, great post!  Thank you!

[ebrasmus21]

5 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

 

I used to be on a bodybuilding message board where pro’s would contribute until they got tired of abuse by trolls, so they would leave.

if you do the same to pro golfers/teachers, they will do the same. I don’t know if anyone moderates here, but carry on and I’ll be happy to find out 

Most of the pros are already gone.  You should have seen this board ten or twelve years ago, we had some truly great pros that would contribute.  Most have gone. 

[me05501]

Driver 230-240

Full PW 120

 

OTOH and to Monte’s point, one of my favorite shots to hit is a PW that goes 100 yards. It seems super accurate and controllable. I’ve often wondered why I don’t carry the same shot deeper into my bag. That’ll be a project for next season. 

[ThinkingPlus]

So I am going to update my PW to 102 to 112 yards.  I know this sounds stupid, but everyone's posts about overswinging wedges got me thinking about my process.  My stock PW yardage is 110 full.  I probably only hit it 108 most of the time, but I always want my miss to be under the hole.  My stock swing with all irons is the fullest swing I can make while still preserving impact angles and low point consistency (I have always found hitting irons off the turf to be difficult so I generally don't swing real hard).  I try to swing such that my misses flight lower to eliminate the balloon balls.  I have never (maybe a few times in my life) spun a wedge back off a green.  Presumably this is because I don't generate sufficient clubhead speed, don't keep my wedges clean enough, and/or don't play fast/soft enough greens.  Always fascinating to me when I see the guys not able to control wedge spin on full shots.

[Hawkeye77]

10 hours ago, ThinkingPlus said:

You still move it out there a bit further than I.  If I don't have firm fairways my driver drops a good bit.  Getting old.

I thought at my age hitting it 250 was okay, now @Obeetells me I'm short! Course closed so I can't run out and try and bust a few to let me sleep well through what will now be a long, cold and agonizingly inadequate feeling winter! 😢

[TheDeanAbides]

I've been working hard on NTC left arm parallel drills with SW to 9 iron because that's the space I've had available during lockdown. I've discovered a whole array of half shots through this process that I can't wait to take to the course. 

[ThinkingPlus]

22 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

I thought at my age hitting it 250 was okay, now @Obeetells me I'm short! Course closed so I can't run out and try and bust a few to let me sleep well through what will now be a long, cold and agonizingly inadequate feeling winter! 😢

Can't help you with the weather and my whining would fall on deaf ears (not good today - 61 and misting rain, but you would kill for that). @Obeesqueezes the most out of his distance than anyone not playing for a living.  Having tour quality game inside 100 yards must be nice. 

[Hawkeye77]

23 minutes ago, ThinkingPlus said:

Can't help you with the weather and my whining would fall on deaf ears (not good today - 61 and misting rain, but you would kill for that). @Obeesqueezes the most out of his distance than anyone not playing for a living.  Having tour quality game inside 100 yards must be nice. 

 

Haha, his short game is more than solid for sure!  Maybe adding headcovers (hybrids) to the bag this fall was my own tacit admission that I'm . . . . . .  short - typing that just brings me down!