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This is a topic that will irritate you, but make your handicap go down.


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Driver: 250 to 270 dependent on conditions.

PW: 110-120. Stock yardage is 120.

 

I have quite a large gap between my PW and Gap wedge. 25 yards to be exact so out of necessity I've learned to take 10 off the PW when I need to. It's much more reliable than trying to squeeze an extra 5 out of the GW which usually results in a pull that misses the green.

The best iron shots of my life have always been the result of taking more club, making a 3/4 swing and sawing off the finish. Makes me feel like a real shotmaker even though I only pretend to be.

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8 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

Winner!!!!!!!

So my question is (and it may have been answered), what can you do to consistently strike an iron with a reduced swing? Hitting a 56 or 58 close in requires the most severe adjustment of tempo but I'm much more 'in touch with the green' being that close so I really get to feel the distance to help me. Being over 100+ out, its now about trusting something other than my eyes to tell my body how hard to swing. Whats a good general tip to develop a consistent less-than-100% swing?

 

 

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7 minutes ago, pktaske said:

So my question is (and it may have been answered), what can you do to consistently strike an iron with a reduced swing? Hitting a 56 or 58 close in requires the most severe adjustment of tempo but I'm much more 'in touch with the green' being that close so I really get to feel the distance to help me. Being over 100+ out, its now about trusting something other than my eyes to tell my body how hard to swing. Whats a good general tip to develop a consistent less-than-100% swing?

 

 

Monte has posted about this on his website and Instagram. Develop a reliable left arm parallel swing that you can use with a number of clubs. I've been working on this every day for a month and now have a whole host of new shots. You can still be positive and aggressive with this swing, but it's under so much more control. 

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41 minutes ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Monte has posted about this on his website and Instagram. Develop a reliable left arm parallel swing that you can use with a number of clubs. I've been working on this every day for a month and now have a whole host of new shots. You can still be positive and aggressive with this swing, but it's under so much more control. 

And I don't find it's "a severe adjustment of tempo" - but it is if your swing isn't synched up and you can't do it in slow motion and when there is a ball in front.  When changing my short game motion I will say the hardest thing for me was taking the club back just a very little bit on a very small shot and learning a minivan vs. Ferrari approach (Monte speak) to hitting the ball - then coming through with a good release to a finish.  Eye opener.  I remember being on a back tee box while others were hitting during a playing lesson with Monte trying to get me just to take it back enough to hit the ball about 2-3 yards and use the bounce (previously a foreign concept to me with my formerly ball back, stiff wrist motion).

 

Agree with you, but also think dropping balls at 100 yards and hitting your 150 club yard to a target, as Monte recommends, is such good practice in general.   Doesn't have to be that extreme - take the PW from 100 instead of say 135, and work on it - whether it's left arm parallel or a little more, you'll learn to keep your backswing to an appropriate amount and you may find you hit the ball more solid than with your 135 swing.  The green or whatever is still a target from 100, just as it is from 40.

Edited by Hawkeye77
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Driver - 275

 

PW - 130 - 140

 

Great discussion here, really like the idea of the thread!

 

I'm fairly good with half and 3/4 shot 'specialty wedges' inside 100 yards (fairly good is being generous) but my ability at those shots above 100 yards is a definite weakness.  For me its not even about hitting 'half' yardages as to be honest I'm not good enough to be that accurate, its more about the benefit you get from more controlled swings & slightly lower ball flights.

 

 

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11 hours ago, Obee said:

More like 5 to 7?

 

Well, my 48 goes about 123, my 52 goes about 108 and my 56 is about 98, so 4 degrees difference is in the 10-15 range. Granted there may also be a length difference which might pull that down a bit, but that was where I came up with 10-12 from. 

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Quoting myself from another thread where a guy was having wedge gapping problems -

 

On 11/23/2020 at 12:06 PM, scott_Donald said:

I read this thread this morning; I was thinking about it again reading the replies.

 

For me I would say the problem is two things - your 54* and how you hit your wedges.

 

For me - 

 

I hit my 46* full out once in a blue moon, 1 time I can think of in my last 4 rounds.

I hit my 50* full out once every 2 blue moons, not once in my last 4 rounds.

I hit my 55* never full out

I hit my 60* never full out.

 

In my wedge fitting 56* was better in the bunker over my normal 54*, playing with flighted 3/4 shots I was hitting the same distance with a 54* and 56* so we went happy medium. 

 

I hit a 60* at a 120 flag the other week for about 10 shots, don't think I made it right there but I did get close but again I would not hit it past 90 unless a strong wind behind on the course. 

 

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Driver: 300

PW: 140

 

After reading through the topic I see where you were going with this and agree. I tend to hit the ball quite high, probably due to too long of an arm swing which I have been working on. If I can avoid it I will almost never hit anything under 8 iron completely full unless it's an absolutely perfect yardage, mainly because I spin the ball like crazy and can't control it. 

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1 hour ago, Hawkeye77 said:

And I don't find it's "a severe adjustment of tempo" - but it is if your swing isn't synched up and you can't do it in slow motion and when there is a ball in front.  When changing my short game motion I will say the hardest thing for me was taking the club back just a very little bit on a very small shot and learning a minivan vs. Ferrari approach (Monte speak) to hitting the ball - then coming through with a good release to a finish.  Eye opener.  I remember being on a back tee box while others were hitting during a playing lesson with Monte trying to get me just to take it back enough to hit the ball about 2-3 yards and use the bounce (previously a foreign concept to me with my formerly ball back, stiff wrist motion).

 

Agree with you, but also think dropping balls at 100 yards and hitting your 150 club yard to a target, as Monte recommends, is such good practice in general.   Doesn't have to be that extreme - take the PW from 100 instead of say 135, and work on it - whether it's left arm parallel or a little more, you'll learn to keep your backswing to an appropriate amount and you may find you hit the ball more solid than with your 135 swing.  The green or whatever is still a target from 100, just as it is from 40.

No, not a severe adjustment to tempo, but when you start to feel comfortable it's possible to play around with different tempos. I've found that I get different spin by doing this. Lazy minivan tempo for a little roll out, but if I speed it up I get a bit more stop. 

 

I've always played around with spin and trajectory around the green, but never really dedicated time to doing it from 20-120 yards. It's been a pleasure. 

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driver 300 PW 135 but that's about as far as I want to ever hit it....I can go 140-145 but swinging hard with a short iron/wedge feels awkward and loose all sorts of control on direction and trajectory.  There are a couple things I have worked on that have helped me a lot over the last few years.  One is learning to hit everything from a SW to 3 iron 100 yards (carry) by varying the backswing length as you would normally.  Great for punch outs on long irons and great for control of short irons.  The next is taking a full swing and hitting a club 2-3 clubs less than normal...so full swing 8 iron (160-165 club) and hitting it 135-140.  It may be a bit overkill but distance control is hands down my best attribute.

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Never actually answered the questions Monte posed. I have no problem carrying a driver 300 when swinging well. I carry a 47 degree pitching wedge 135 with a "full" swing, probably 140ish in the summer. Full being the operative word here. 135 is the distance where my dispersion is best. I can easily get PW to 150 very comfortably without losing trajectory control but dispersion will suffer. There is a reason you have a nine iron. 

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Hopefully this isn't a dumb question.  I have seen comments about a left arm parallel swing being as much as you want to use with a wedge unless I am reading things wrong. How does this apply to those of us that have left arm parallel as our full swing? Thanks to being overweight and not being super flexible, that's my normal full swing, I can't easily get further at this point in time. I prefer to hit a partial wedge versus a full wedge right now regardless but it sounds like this concept applies to short irons as well.

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33 minutes ago, b.mattay said:

I can easily get PW to 150 very comfortably without losing trajectory control but dispersion will suffer. There is a reason you have a nine iron. 

 

True. And it's not to hit it 150 yards. 😉

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16 minutes ago, bortass said:

@MonteScheinblumHopefully this isn't a dumb question.  I have seen comments about a left arm parallel swing being as much as you want to use with a wedge unless I am reading things wrong. How does this apply to those of us that have left arm parallel as our full swing? Thanks to being overweight and not being super flexible, that's my normal full swing, I can't easily get further at this point in time. I prefer to hit a partial wedge versus a full wedge right now regardless but it sounds like this concept applies to short irons as well.

Nobody said that about left arm parallel. We're just saying that it's a great thing to get down so that you have control of your swing. 

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On 11/30/2020 at 4:36 PM, Puttersaurus Rex said:

Of course, I agree.  "May" is appropriate, and I was hoping the loose correlation was the caveat.  I am sure we do not want to get started on PW lofts, as they can easily range from 42-48 degrees.  Not the point @Howard_Jones was making, and I was relaying.  Thanks!


PW carry x 2 = Driver carry is a very good rule of thumb to see if the players clubs works as they should in both ends. The PW we talk has a loft of 46 to 48. A player who is a bit off from that factor should take a look at the club identified as the shortest of them, thats the practical use of it.

The same players who has a ratio of 2:1 will most likely have a driver with a Total wgt that 0.7 vs their PW, and that factor can be used to judge if TW might be the issue when they dont have the 2:1 factor for carry.
 


 

Edited by Howard_Jones
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1 hour ago, bortass said:

Hopefully this isn't a dumb question.  I have seen comments about a left arm parallel swing being as much as you want to use with a wedge unless I am reading things wrong. How does this apply to those of us that have left arm parallel as our full swing? Thanks to being overweight and not being super flexible, that's my normal full swing, I can't easily get further at this point in time. I prefer to hit a partial wedge versus a full wedge right now regardless but it sounds like this concept applies to short irons as well.

Not as much as you'd want to use, but a good shot to have and practice. If you can't get past left arm parallel, I'd venture to say it's not just flexibility/weight, but also how you move. I used to think the same thing about myself when I had a very short swing, but it's because I wasn't pivoting correctly. If you hips rotate too flat and you don't extend your spine correctly, rotation of the shoulders will be limited.

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1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:


PW carry x 2 = Driver carry is a very good rule of thumb to see if the players clubs works as they should in both ends. The PW we talk has a loft of 46 to 48. A player who is a bit off from that factor should take a look at the club identified as the shortest of them, thats the practical use of it.

The same players who has a ratio of 2:1 will most likely have a driver with a Total wgt that 0.7 vs their PW, and that factor can be used to judge if TW might be the issue when they dont have the 2:1 factor for carry.
 


 

I tell people 9 iron times 2 equals driver carry.

All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

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1 minute ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I tell people 9 iron times 2 equals driver carry.

 

Monte, where is the problem if that isn't the case. I.e. someone carries their 9 iron 130 and their driver 230? Mis-fitting driver or a poor driver swing, or a bit of both? 

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24 minutes ago, YMark said:

 

Monte, where is the problem if that isn't the case. I.e. someone carries their 9 iron 130 and their driver 230? Mis-fitting driver or a poor driver swing, or a bit of both? 

Swing faults are magnified on driver which means there’s an even bigger speed loss.  The biggest issue is conscious and sub conscious hitting up on driver magnifies many swing faults to a HUGE degree.  
 

...and because people just hit their wedges too far.

 

That was the biggest thing that brought Tiger into Goat Status.  
 

‘He was not an all world wedge player when he came on tour.  When he started bringing the speed and ball down, that’s what brought on 2000.

 

In the first post I said what people respond and some did.  It’s not about can you hit it that far and that you’re a good wedge player already.  It’s about becoming better.

 

I am a damn good golfer playing once a month and practicing once a week.  Does that mean I shouldn’t play and practice more?

 

I’m one of the longest 53 year old hitters in the world.  Does that mean I shouldn’t get more fit so I can hit it longer and straighter and shoot lower?

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All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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Driver: 260-270

PW: 130

 

My PW swing looks like Steve Stricker swing. 

 

I can hit the PW 140 if I need to. Last round I just missed the fairway to the left. 143 out to a back center pin. Large tree in right in my line, and a creek running it front of the green. Would ideally hit a partial flighted 8 out but no way it would clear the trees. Didnt think a 9 would either. So it's go time on the PW. Short is wet. Super high hands, super deep turn, drop it down and shallow it out to hit a monster high draw that flies 145 right at the pin but unfortunately ran off the back of the green. Hard to believe that at the angle it was coming down that it didnt just stick right into the green, but must not of had much spin. And that's why that is not my stock shot. Looks really good at times, but isnt always functional. 

 

 

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I had 119yd 3rd shot into a Par 5 oddly shaped green Sunday, that's PW distance for this ole man.  But I used 620MB 9i instead.  I have fun dialing back my tempo to use a longer club for shorter distance.  Paid off too.  Beautiful trajectory right on the pin, ball hit and bounced once, twice then ran towards the back pin but was moved offline by an undulation, leaving 12' putt which I missed but it was an easy par.  Damn, I love this game. 

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9 hours ago, pktaske said:

So my question is (and it may have been answered), what can you do to consistently strike an iron with a reduced swing? Hitting a 56 or 58 close in requires the most severe adjustment of tempo but I'm much more 'in touch with the green' being that close so I really get to feel the distance to help me. Being over 100+ out, its now about trusting something other than my eyes to tell my body how hard to swing. Whats a good general tip to develop a consistent less-than-100% swing?

 

 

 The hardest thing is finding a good space to practice with reliable golf balls. 30 years ago there was heaps of public space where I could hit my own balls and collect them. I would step out the distance and put a different coloured cone at every 5 steps and each golfer would put their own mark on each ball. No one ever got sued. I'm lucky today that some of my local clubs let me do it when it is quiet and I use a range finder. Another way is if I'm practising on the course on my own I'll hit a few balls practising a lesser swing with a longer club. The tour pros just whip out their $20k flight monitor and practise hitting certain distances with brand new balls they wouldn't even bother collecting! The old tour pros had a caddy with a baseball mitt.

In terms of the process for me it is just feel. I would have no idea how long my backswing is and don't want to.

I know others need to do it the other way around. "If I swing to my shoulder with a PW my ball goes ......... If I swing to my waist with my PW my ball goes ......."

Some people also do better thinking of their follow through position. 

There is no one way to do it. As long as it suits you. 

The most important thing I would say is to have a good feedback system. 

 

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21 minutes ago, freowho said:

 The hardest thing is finding a good space to practice with reliable golf balls. 30 years ago there was heaps of public space where I could hit my own balls and collect them. I would step out the distance and put a different coloured cone at every 5 steps and each golfer would put their own mark on each ball. No one ever got sued. I'm lucky today that some of my local clubs let me do it when it is quiet and I use a range finder. Another way is if I'm practising on the course on my own I'll hit a few balls practising a lesser swing with a longer club. The tour pros just whip out their $20k flight monitor and practise hitting certain distances with brand new balls they wouldn't even bother collecting! The old tour pros had a caddy with a baseball mitt.

In terms of the process for me it is just feel. I would have no idea how long my backswing is and don't want to.

I know others need to do it the other way around. "If I swing to my shoulder with a PW my ball goes ......... If I swing to my waist with my PW my ball goes ......."

Some people also do better thinking of their follow through position. 

There is no one way to do it. As long as it suits you. 

The most important thing I would say is to have a good feedback system. 

 

I gotta field. And a shag bag. Thx.

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5 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:


PW carry x 2 = Driver carry is a very good rule of thumb to see if the players clubs works as they should in both ends. The PW we talk has a loft of 46 to 48. A player who is a bit off from that factor should take a look at the club identified as the shortest of them, thats the practical use of it.

The same players who has a ratio of 2:1 will most likely have a driver with a Total wgt that 0.7 vs their PW, and that factor can be used to judge if TW might be the issue when they dont have the 2:1 factor for carry.
 


 

Interesting, as that's just about exactly where I am.

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@MonteScheinblum I asked you a question several pages back about ripping wedges back off of greens when you played professionally. Wasn't sure if you saw it because I didn't see a response. Was that something that you frequently did? Or was it more that you would just spin the ball back to 20 or 30 feet when you should've been within 10 to 12 feet more frequently? I'm guessing it was the latter?

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9 hours ago, RichieHunt said:

Driver: 290 yards

PW: 130-135 yards on a full swing.

 

 

 

RH

 Richie, do you CARRY it 290? Or total distance?

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4 minutes ago, Obee said:

@MonteScheinblum I asked you a question several pages back about ripping wedges back off of greens when you played professionally. Wasn't sure if you saw it because I didn't see a response. Was that something that you frequently did? Or was it more that you would just spin the ball back to 20 or 30 feet when you should've been within 10 to 12 feet more frequently? I'm guessing it was the latter?

Both.  I was outhouse at castle with wedges.  Never decent.

 

65 or 75

All "tips" are welcome. Instruction not desired. 
 

 

The problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts.

BERTRAND RUSSELL

 

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      Piretti putters - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Ping putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Kevin Dougherty's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Bettinardi putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Cameron putter - 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Erik Barnes testing an all-black Axis1 putter – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
      Tony Finau's new driver shaft – 2024 Texas Children's Houston Open
       
       
       
       
       
      • 9 replies
    • 2024 Valspar Championship WITB Photos (Thanks to bvmagic)- Discussion & Links to Photos
      This weeks WITB Pics are from member bvmagic (Brian). Brian's first event for WRX was in 2008 at Bayhill while in college. Thanks so much bv.
       
      Please put your comments or question on this thread. Links to all the threads are below...
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 31 replies
    • 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational - Monday #3
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Matt (LFG) Every - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Sahith Theegala - WITB - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Cameron putters (and new "LD" grip) - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Bettinardi MB & CB irons - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Bettinardi API putter cover - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      Custom Swag API covers - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
      New Golf Pride Reverse Taper grips - 2024 Arnold Palmer Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
        • Like
      • 15 replies
    • 2024 Cognizant Classic - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #1
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #2
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #3
      2024 Cognizant Classic - Monday #4
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Brandt Snedeker - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Max Greyserman - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Eric Cole - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Carl Yuan - WITb - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Russell Henley - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Justin Sun - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alex Noren - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Shane Lowry - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Taylor Montgomery - WITB - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jake Knapp (KnappTime_ltd) - WITB - - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Super Stoke Pistol Lock 1.0 & 2.0 grips - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      LA Golf new insert putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Garsen Quad Tour 15 grip - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      New Swag covers - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Jacob Bridgeman's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Bud Cauley's custom Cameron putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Ryo Hisatsune's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Chris Kirk - new black Callaway Apex CB irons and a few Odyssey putters - 2024 Cognizant Classic
      Alejandro Tosti's custom Cameron putter - 2024 Cognizant Classic
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
       
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      • 2 replies
    • 2024 Genesis Invitational - Discussion and Links to Photos
      Please put any questions or comments here
       
       
       
      General Albums
       
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Monday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #1
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #2
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #3
      2024 Genesis Invitational - Tuesday #4
       
       
       
       
      WITB Albums
       
      Rory McIlroy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Sepp Straka - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Patrick Rodgers - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Brendon Todd - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Denny McCarthy - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Corey Conners - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Chase Johnson - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tommy Fleetwood - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Matt Fitzpatrick - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Si Woo Kim - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Viktor Hovland - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Wyndham Clark - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Cam Davis - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Nick Taylor - WITB - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Ben Baller WITB update (New putter, driver, hybrid and shafts) – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      Pullout Albums
       
      New Vortex Golf rangefinder - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Fujikura Ventus shaft - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods & TaylorMade "Sun Day Red" apparel launch event, product photos – 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods Sun Day Red golf shoes - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Aretera shafts - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      New Toulon putters - 2024 Genesis Invitational
      Tiger Woods' new white "Sun Day Red" golf shoe prototypes – 2024 Genesis Invitational
       
       
       
       
       
      • 22 replies

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