Any correlation between CC membership and being an elite Junior?

[heavy_hitter]

16 hours ago, Lobby said:

There are millions of folks living on the Gulf Coast who don't have $500 in the bank to escape incoming hurricanes, so they ride them out.  

 

To them, golf is an unthinkable luxury.  

Saying "it's only $450 per month," is really out of touch.   Saying that poor kids have the same access as wealthy kids do is silly.  

 

I am not following your premise at all.  I live in Florida and ride Hurricanes out and I am upper middle class.  Have no idea what this has to do with the thread.  

 

To those people having floors not made out sand and three meals a day is a luxury.  Still not following your point.

 

I honestly think you are the one that is out of touch.  It costs money to play all sports anymore.  Travel anything is easily $450 a month if not more.  If there is a will there is a way.  Poor kids aren't victims.  There are programs every where to help these kids in all sports.  Having access to a private club means having the ease of use.  Doesn't mean it gets used.  It is the parents responsibility to provide for their kids, not societies responsibility to provide for them.  

Edited December 3, 2020 by heavy_hitter

[Abh159]

16 hours ago, Lobby said:

There are millions of folks living on the Gulf Coast who don't have $500 in the bank to escape incoming hurricanes, so they ride them out.  

 

To them, golf is an unthinkable luxury.  

Saying "it's only $450 per month," is really out of touch.   Saying that poor kids have the same access as wealthy kids do is silly.  

 

Keegan Bradley grew up in a trailer park in Massachusetts, Jason Day's mom worked multiple jobs just to put him through school, Rory McIlroy's dad worked three jobs and his mom worked the night shift at a factory so he could play golf, Lee Trevino started working picking cotton in Texas when he was 5 years old....

 

Golf was an "unthinkable luxury" to all of these and many other players, but they found a way to make it work. By the way they all grew up before the First Tee Program was around so their access to golf was even more limited when compared to underprivileged kids of today. 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

@kekoa

 

Have you looked into a simulator setup at the home?  I know you probably aren't pampered by weather, but it's a way for practice sessions and playing 1 1/2 rounds.  I understand it can't replicate the real thing.  I know personally I've improved my game in the past 2 1/2 years of owning it.

 

My son as well.  We don't belong to a CC, but he is a member of a semi-private that gives him unlimited range balls and green fees.  That's super nice for playing but he has played out that course.  With the simulator he has played Pebble and St. Andrews in the same night.  He never knew his numbers for clubs until working in the garage on the sim range.  He can rattle them all off to you now and the different shots with it.

 

I was quoted $5500 for 12 months at a CC.  So basically in that 1 1/2 of not being members we own our simulator in the garage.

 

Again, just  a thought.

[kekoa]

1 hour ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

@kekoa

 

Have you looked into a simulator setup at the home?  I know you probably aren't pampered by weather, but it's a way for practice sessions and playing 1 1/2 rounds.  I understand it can't replicate the real thing.  I know personally I've improved my game in the past 2 1/2 years of owning it.

 

My son as well.  We don't belong to a CC, but he is a member of a semi-private that gives him unlimited range balls and green fees.  That's super nice for playing but he has played out that course.  With the simulator he has played Pebble and St. Andrews in the same night.  He never knew his numbers for clubs until working in the garage on the sim range.  He can rattle them all off to you now and the different shots with it.

 

I was quoted $5500 for 12 months at a CC.  So basically in that 1 1/2 of not being members we own our simulator in the garage.

 

Again, just  a thought.

 

We've thought about a sim for a while now.  For my son he would prefer to have one along with a cc membership and not instead of one. lol!   You have a great set up there!!!

 

As for the money issue, from what I remember Karl Villips grew up really poor but was good enough at golf where doors were opened for him.  Now he is a top ranked jr playing all over the world and attending Stanford.  Amazing stuff.

[tiger1873]

20 hours ago, kekoa said:

Yup @tiger1873.  We live in Orange County where junior access is a bit difficult.  No real junior programs or rates to speak of.  We normally have to drive about 30 minutes to munis where we can get YOC discounts to play or driving range.   On normal days, we head out to a higher end public course where we get a discount of $35 for play after 3pm.  This allows us to get 9 holes in walking only.

 

Palm Springs has a ridiculous number of courses available to play at various price ranges.  My buddy just joined a course that has 36 holes for $450/month, free carts for a year and a great practice area.  The course is only 12 minutes from his house so it makes sense.

 

 I remember living there and how limited your choices are.   The courses there were tough to get on and they didn't allow for walk ons. Plus even the muni courses are rip off.  I heard they only got worse since I left.

 

 The ranch in Laguna beach used to be super cheap back in the day and a place you could play and was called something else before it changed. I think it was redone and doesn't offer a cheap membership anymore.

 

I feel for you. Most us probably pay less in country club fees than you pay for balls at the driving range.

 

seriously have you thought about moving a little farther north or south or perhaps another state. 

[kekoa]

28 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 I remember living there and how limited your choices are.   The courses there were tough to get on and they didn't allow for walk ons. Plus even the muni courses are rip off.  I heard they only got worse since I left.

 

 The ranch in Laguna beach used to be super cheap back in the day and a place you could play and was called something else before it changed. I think it was redone and doesn't offer a cheap membership anymore.

 

I feel for you. Most us probably pay less in country club fees than you pay for balls at the driving range.

 

seriously have you thought about moving a little farther north or south or perhaps another state. 

Have thought a lot about moving especially given the ever rising cost of living her in California.  A dream has always been to live on a golf course.  Only places that would be possible somewhat close is Palm Springs and Arizona.  PS becomes very costly given the high HOA's involved, which don't include a membership.  Right now, jobs and family would make a move very difficult.  

[tiger1873]

10 minutes ago, kekoa said:

Have thought a lot about moving especially given the ever rising cost of living her in California.  A dream has always been to live on a golf course.  Only places that would be possible somewhat close is Palm Springs and Arizona.  PS becomes very costly given the high HOA's involved, which don't include a membership.  Right now, jobs and family would make a move very difficult.  

 

Well if you want to do that there are few places in Florida you can do it for a song. When I say that a few years ago they were litterally giving away houses on golf course communities in palm beach.  In some cases they used to pay you to take it off their hands.

 

They are not that cheap now but still a good deal. Also some very good deals in orlando and almost more attractive since the dues are so cheap.

Edited December 3, 2020 by tiger1873

[Tannerbug33]

We are not a member anywhere we have a course 3 minutes from our house that does youth on the course. Pro want let us get a jr membership said it'd be cheaper to use the youth on the course card. 

 During school we are there alot but once he is out of school we visit alot if courses to play practice rounds and experience different conditions. We are fortunate we have 4 courses with in 30 mins that does youth on the course. Only wish it helped out with range balls 😂

[hangontight]

On 12/3/2020 at 9:36 AM, Abh159 said:

 

Keegan Bradley grew up in a trailer park in Massachusetts, Jason Day's mom worked multiple jobs just to put him through school, Rory McIlroy's dad worked three jobs and his mom worked the night shift at a factory so he could play golf, Lee Trevino started working picking cotton in Texas when he was 5 years old....

 

Golf was an "unthinkable luxury" to all of these and many other players, but they found a way to make it work. By the way they all grew up before the First Tee Program was around so their access to golf was even more limited when compared to underprivileged kids of today. 

Love the rags to riches success stories, but for each one of those stories on the PGA tour there is probably 20 that had some sort of higher privilege (not necessarily rich, but call it some level of disposable income & time to support).  AJGA is no doubt the most likely(but not the only) path to D1, D1 is no doubt the most likely (but not the only) path to PGA Tour.   AJGA is expensive.   I have no stats to back that up, but there is no way around the fact that Golf is an expensive sport - both money and time.     Naturally those with more access, more time, and more resources have a higher chance of success.   Outliers excluded.  

Edited December 7, 2020 by hangontight

[tiger1873]

15 minutes ago, hangontight said:

Love the rags to riches success stories, but for each one of those stories on the PGA tour there is probably 20 that had some sort of higher privilege (not necessarily rich, but call it some level of disposable income & time to support).   I have no stats to back that up, but there is no way around the fact that Golf is an expensive sport - both money and time.     Naturally those with more access, more time, and more resources have a higher chance of success.   Outliers excluded.  

 

Come on it doesn't matter what you do in life. Everything costs money and there is no free lunch. If you work a minimum wage job life is not going to easy.  If your that poor man up and get a better job.   I see kids from all income levels playing golf.  Getting good has more to do with work ethic and attitude then spending your days playing at nice course and clubhouse with free latte's and soda.

 

 Ever play against poor kids from China that on their national programs??  There are usually not nice kids at all and you can see they are brain washed in their thinking. If you want to be a communist move to china and see how they treat you.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by tiger1873

[Abh159]

14 minutes ago, hangontight said:

Love the rags to riches success stories, but for each one of those stories on the PGA tour there is probably 20 that had some sort of higher privilege (not necessarily rich, but call it some level of disposable income & time to support).  AJGA is no doubt the most likely(but not the only) path to D1, D1 is no doubt the most likely (but not the only) path to PGA Tour.   AJGA is expensive.   I have no stats to back that up, but there is no way around the fact that Golf is an expensive sport - both money and time.     Naturally those with more access, more time, and more resources have a higher chance of success.   Outliers excluded

 

It always bugs me a little when golf gets singled out as being "expensive". This is true for just about every sport. Baseball, hockey, basketball, soccer, and most others are all expensive once you get to a high level of competition. They require better equipment, travel expenses, coaching/lesson costs, and etc. 

 

My rags to riches post was a reaction to Lobby's weird comment about how we are all "out of touch" because there are poor people on the gulf coast who can't afford a country club membership. I was reiterating what everyone else was saying about how being wealthy isn't a prerequisite for becoming an elite golfer. 

[heavy_hitter]

On 12/3/2020 at 1:49 PM, kekoa said:

Have thought a lot about moving especially given the ever rising cost of living her in California.  A dream has always been to live on a golf course.  Only places that would be possible somewhat close is Palm Springs and Arizona.  PS becomes very costly given the high HOA's involved, which don't include a membership.  Right now, jobs and family would make a move very difficult.  

Move to Florida.  Cheap cost of living and there are great CC options at low cost.  Best part is if you live on the course you can fish on the course.  We pay around $7000 a year and that includes a trail fee so we can play anytime.

[heavy_hitter]

On 12/7/2020 at 8:58 AM, hangontight said:

Love the rags to riches success stories, but for each one of those stories on the PGA tour there is probably 20 that had some sort of higher privilege (not necessarily rich, but call it some level of disposable income & time to support).  AJGA is no doubt the most likely(but not the only) path to D1, D1 is no doubt the most likely (but not the only) path to PGA Tour.   AJGA is expensive.   I have no stats to back that up, but there is no way around the fact that Golf is an expensive sport - both money and time.     Naturally those with more access, more time, and more resources have a higher chance of success.   Outliers excluded.  

 Every sport now you have to pay to play and travel on teams.  Golf is not that more expensive than Baseball.

[ConcernedBoutCOVID]

joining a CC is not only more convenient and guarantees access, but it can be much more economical if you have multiple family members who play a lot of rounds

 

our per round cost as a family this year has been < $15 

[MB19]

7 hours ago, heavy_hitter said:

 Every sport now you have to pay to play and travel on teams.  Golf is not that more expensive than Baseball.

Baseball has gotten criminally expensive, IMO, at least in FL.

[FakeClubPro]

On 12/2/2020 at 5:20 PM, Lobby said:

There are millions of folks living on the Gulf Coast who don't have $500 in the bank to escape incoming hurricanes, so they ride them out.  

 

To them, golf is an unthinkable luxury.  

Saying "it's only $450 per month," is really out of touch.   Saying that poor kids have the same access as wealthy kids do is silly.  

 

This is another reason why I like Bubba.  He was not born with a silver putter in his hand.

[FakeClubPro]

21 hours ago, MB19 said:

Baseball has gotten criminally expensive, IMO, at least in FL.

All scams to get the parents to pony up for all sorts of team sports, cheer leading, karate, kumon or other study systems (worth it) and school clubs.  It is a big business. 

 

Some of these kids are exhausted by some of the stuff that parents and peer pressure push them to sign up for.

 

Soccer is among the most absurd.  They get all these ex-Premier League guys from England as personal coaches.   99.9% of Americans kids will never be good enough to become big pro in soccer.   European kids start super early and have a farm system with junior teams.  There was the one kid from PA who moved to Germany and played for Dortmund (?).  He is in the Premier League now I think.  He can play.

[swagee]

On 12/1/2020 at 12:56 PM, kekoa said:

Just curious on thoughts about the subject.  My son and I get to play at a lot of local clubs in the area and most of them are filled with very good junior golfers.  Not sure if this is just coincidence or not.  We have looked at joining a few clubs, but the cost and proximity to our house just doesn't make it feasible at this time.  There are about 14 juniors in the circle my son plays with and probably more than half of them are members at some type of club. 

 

 

 

I say there is a positive correlation between the two. Being a member of a CC will grant u access (unlimited!?) to better practice facilities and club pros. With that type of access, these kids will no doubt have more advantages over their peers. 

[swagee]

On 12/2/2020 at 9:46 AM, wildcatden said:

 

Junior just played Castlewood (Valley Course) for a USKG tournament recently. Have never played the Hills Course there.  I wish I had better means to be a member at Castlewood.  The practice facilities are awesome and really ideal for a developing junior (grass range, putting/chipping greens, bunker practice greens, two 18-hole courses, etc...). We are members at The Bridges nearby in San Ramon. 

 

One thing to watch for at CC's is that some of them do junior sponsorships into the club. Castlewood has a merit program that sponsors a couple juniors or so per year if I recall correctly.  It has academic and golf requirements.

 

Good for u and jr, mate.

I live in the South Bay and frequent the Bridges. Love the course, tough as nail tho. The narrow and dog-legged fairways are dreadful. I feel like it's best to leave the driver in the car before each round.  

Got invited to Castlewood once and was impressed. Beautiful course and facility. 

[dlc1914]

Access is everything, however you can get it. 

 

 

[iteachgolf]

We are a public facility that offers memberships (aka semi private).  We have a ton of very good juniors at our facility that are both members and not.   The muni I grew up playing had a ton of junior talent pass through.  It will vary greatly depending on where you live.  Here in FL there’s plenty of access without joining a private club

[MB19]

16 hours ago, iteachgolf said:

We are a public facility that offers memberships (aka semi private).  We have a ton of very good juniors at our facility that are both members and not.   The muni I grew up playing had a ton of junior talent pass through.  It will vary greatly depending on where you live.  Here in FL there’s plenty of access without joining a private club

Which part of FL are you in?

[iteachgolf]

4 minutes ago, MB19 said:

Which part of FL are you in?

Jacksonville area

[jholz]

On 12/12/2020 at 3:46 PM, FakeClubPro said:

All scams to get the parents to pony up for all sorts of team sports, cheer leading, karate, kumon or other study systems (worth it) and school clubs.  It is a big business. 

 

Some of these kids are exhausted by some of the stuff that parents and peer pressure push them to sign up for.

 

Soccer is among the most absurd.  They get all these ex-Premier League guys from England as personal coaches.   99.9% of Americans kids will never be good enough to become big pro in soccer.   European kids start super early and have a farm system with junior teams.  There was the one kid from PA who moved to Germany and played for Dortmund (?).  He is in the Premier League now I think.  He can play.

 

Christian Pulisic - a little bit more that just "some kid from PA." I'd say the chances of an American kid making it big in international soccer are just about the same as making it in any other major sport. Only a tiny fraction of a % are ever going to be successful.

 

Like pretty much ever other vision of success in our society these days, the sporting version of "success" is tantamount to winning the lottery. 

[tiger1873]

On 12/12/2020 at 4:22 PM, swagee said:

 

I say there is a positive correlation between the two. Being a member of a CC will grant u access (unlimited!?) to better practice facilities and club pros. With that type of access, these kids will no doubt have more advantages over their peers. 

 

 

If you join a club because your hoping to access to a club pro you will be disappointed.  Not say they can't help you and I can say it would be rare to find a club pro that doesn't want juniors to play. But they are usually busy with Members requests and running a golf course they really don't have time. Plus they usually charge for lessons.

 

Also just because a guy is a great club pro doesn't mean he is a great tournament golfer and can teach kids.  Guys who can teach usually focus on teaching and guys who do all those other little things are the pro's you see at most courses. 

 

The pro can be great when you want an extra bucket of balls or have a few questions about a course and even will get excited when your kid wins a few events.

 

I am sure there are examples of countless pro's who took kids under their wings and succeeded it just you can't expect that joining a club.

[kekoa]

6 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

If you join a club because your hoping to access to a club pro you will be disappointed.  Not say they can't help you and I can say it would be rare to find a club pro that doesn't want juniors to play. But they are usually busy with Members requests and running a golf course they really don't have time. Plus they usually charge for lessons.

 

Also just because a guy is a great club pro doesn't mean he is a great tournament golfer and can teach kids.  Guys who can teach usually focus on teaching and guys who do all those other little things are the pro's you see at most courses. 

 

The pro can be great when you want an extra bucket of balls or have a few questions about a course and even will get excited when your kid wins a few events.

 

I am sure there are examples of countless pro's who took kids under their wings and succeeded it just you can't expect that joining a club.

Every kid I know who is a member at a cc doesn't see the club pro for lessons.  Most probably forget his name the day after they hear it.  🙂  Like you said, they are more concerned with running the business and attending to members (adults). 

[TripleBogeysrbetter]

On 12/11/2020 at 10:08 AM, heavy_hitter said:

 Every sport now you have to pay to play and travel on teams.  Golf is not that more expensive than Baseball.

Baseball was stupid expensive for us.  Son was a catcher.  Two bats.  His catching gear.  The catching and hitting coach.

 

Travel teams.  Hotels and tournaments. Golf is so much cheaper for us.

[leezer99]

36 minutes ago, kekoa said:

Every kid I know who is a member at a cc doesn't see the club pro for lessons.  Most probably forget his name the day after they hear it.  🙂  Like you said, they are more concerned with running the business and attending to members (adults). 

 

We have a bunch of teaching pros at our club.  I wouldn't send my kid to any of them.

 

I heard about one club nearby that is super busy to the point of it being difficult to get a time.  They also kick juniors off the practice range if all the stalls are full and an adult member wants to hit balls.

[Abh159]

1 hour ago, kekoa said:

Every kid I know who is a member at a cc doesn't see the club pro for lessons.  Most probably forget his name the day after they hear it.  🙂  Like you said, they are more concerned with running the business and attending to members (adults). 

 

Yeah being a good Club Pro doesn't make you a good teacher and vice versa. Although there are some exceptions out there. 

 

Most Club Pros are hired to keep the members happy and try to make sure the golf part of the club is functioning as it should. The teaching part is something they can do on the side to earn more money, and most do it because being a Club Pro isn't exactly a lucrative job.

[MB19]

2 hours ago, TripleBogeysrbetter said:

Baseball was stupid expensive for us.  Son was a catcher.  Two bats.  His catching gear.  The catching and hitting coach.

 

Travel teams.  Hotels and tournaments. Golf is so much cheaper for us.

By the time I was 14 I figured out that my dad groomed me to be a catcher because he, indeed, probably hated me.  J/K (kinda)

 

But for real, new catchers gear must be bought about as often as new clubs--I must have gone through 3 sets from the time I was 8-13.  A new catcher's mitt every other year, in addition to either an OF or IF and possibly a 1B glove.  Heavy azz equipment bag in and out of the park, having a sweaty ump on your back in the summer heat... foul tips to the throat, noggin, throwing shoulder and cup.  Being on-deck with your shin guards still on, not sure if you want to bat so you can take them off or not bad so you don't have to.  Man, that's a bum gig for a little kid!  Expensive, sweaty, painful.

 

My permanent conversion to OF was a vacation, although some see it as banishment.