Jon Rahm to Callaway

[Valtiel]

On 12/4/2020 at 8:25 PM, grm24 said:

The current USA golf population is around 22-24 million players. What percentage of those players do you actually think know what clubs/shafts/balls any PGA Tour professional golfers use? It's tiny. That's even before considering the rest of the golf population around the rest of the globe.

 

What members of WRX and other places like this discuss or possibly might use what gear professionals use is not representative of the golf population as a whole. Not even close.

I agree, but I also wonder how much this has changed over the years. Just purely by scale it will always be a minority, but I wonder how much more brand/equipment conscious people are today as opposed to say, 15+ years ago. The proliferation of behind the scenes info, including that recent Taylormade DJ driver build video which has garnered 340k views, makes me curious. 

As for Rahm and the discussion at large, I don't think companies would be spending millions to have players on their roster if it didn't impact sales to some extent, but I think the real meaningful "needle moving" marketing movements come when something transcends the golf nerd bubble and reaches the larger market, and those moments are fairly rare, and the people that produce them even rarer. 

[sociojeje]

all those big guys have been either TM or Titleist as Phil is getting old. Finally they sign a big star. BTW, mavrik's color wouldn't match well with aldila tour green... hope he does well! 

[Stanks]

1 hour ago, sociojeje said:

all those big guys have been either TM or Titleist as Phil is getting old. Finally they sign a big star. BTW, mavrik's color wouldn't match well with aldila tour green... hope he does well! 

Phil’s career is nothing to scoff at. But yes, I do agree that Callaway is looking for that younger buck that screams power and is a bit dramatic.

[bmyles]

9 hours ago, MCoz said:

It was about the Money. Callaway needed a big time top ranked player with flare. I have it on inside info that it was for big "Stupid Money". I have know about it for some time. 

Rahm’s version of “flare” looks an awful lot like petulance 

[driveandputtmachine]

On 12/3/2020 at 8:34 PM, jomatty said:

Whatever it is stamped it will be one that is not part of the retail line.  Guys use “chrome soft” but I think they are all versions that are harder.  Even the mini tour players seem to use a diamond version of one type or another.

I wouldn't completely bet on piles of individual "tour" balls.  Any change in formulation what so ever has to be tested and approved by the USGA.  It has to have different markings to differentiate them.  I do not see a pile of different Chrome Soft balls on the USGA approved list.  If they play a ball that is different and not marked different and for some reason it is discovered it would be an immediate DQ would be my guess.  Not to mention the stigma a cheater gets.

 

If a pile of different balls was the case for Callaway staffers and they weren't putting them on the USGA conforming list, then Kisner wouldn't still be playing Titleist instead of a Callaway ball.

[driveandputtmachine]

Let's not forget that Taylor Made is owned by a venture capital group.  To say that all capital venture groups are not the same would be an understatement of the century, however all capital venture groups lure people in to invest based on big returns at some point.  Whether it is 2,3,4,5,10 years after initial investment.  Taylor Made is shelling out a lot of money in talent right now, and if they are not seeing enough of a return with club sales they will consult their spreadsheet.

 

Whether right or wrong a capital investment group know every dollar they spend down to the nickel or penny.  They have a dollar amount they initially apply to each contract on how much money they will bring in club sales.  Let's say after certain wins they see an uptick in sales and others they do not, they then adjust what they think an established player is worth to pay.  If he wants more than that they simply do not renew.

 

With up and coming players there is a little leeway based on their college career and their early success, and what they are expected to generate, but they too will have an absolute dollar amount they THINK drives in gear sales.   If there is not enough profit they will make the cold hard decision to move on and will not bat an eye at it.  

[Flip4000]

On 12/4/2020 at 8:53 AM, vstensrud23 said:

As many have said, ball will be the biggest issue. It wouldn't shock me at all if he ends up in a Pro V or Bridgestone. Odyssey has so many putter options compared to TM that he'll fit somewhere, even if he hadn't previously used a 2-ball.

I had read or seen something that some manufacturers are very particular about what pieces of equipment you play when on their staff. For example TMAG wants you to play their woods. I think with Callaway they are big on playing the ball. As others have said, I think that is going to be tough if they push him into a Chrome soft 

[nsxguy]

9 minutes ago, Flip4000 said:

I had read or seen something that some manufacturers are very particular about what pieces of equipment you play when on their staff. For example TMAG wants you to play their woods. I think with Callaway they are big on playing the ball. As others have said, I think that is going to be tough if they push him into a Chrome soft 

 

The contract is signed, no ?

 

Don't you think both Callaway AND Rahm have considered the ball ?

 

He's either got his choice of ball (brand) or he doesn't. We'll see soon enough.

[Flip4000]

On 12/6/2020 at 10:06 PM, me05501 said:

Ping’s deals are very incentive-oriented which works well for a player who gets hot. Not nearly as much guaranteed though. 

Sounds like Ping must be getting Finau for a steal then haha

[Flip4000]

On 12/7/2020 at 11:41 AM, tbowles411 said:

Not surprising, since he's been using their stuff for some time now.

I mean they did give him the TF proto irons. You don't do that if you dont wanna keep a guy in the fold

[Flip4000]

15 hours ago, MCoz said:

It was about the Money. Callaway needed a big time top ranked player with flare. I have it on inside info that it was for big "Stupid Money". I have know about it for some time. 

Also, Rahm is pretty accessible, so he may be a good fit for all the social media shows and stuff callaway does.

[Flip4000]

15 hours ago, noodle3872 said:

And TXG acknowledges this point. But indoor tests of other balls has the same issue. TXG focuses on consistency in the numbers the ball produces. Based on the numbers, they liked the 2020 CSx. They even seemed a bit surprised by the outcome.

I would have personally preferred that they had picked some up the local shop instead of testing the ones callaway sent over. 

[Flip4000]

12 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

The contract is signed, no ?

 

Don't you think both Callaway AND Rahm have considered the ball ?

 

He's either got his choice of ball (brand) or he doesn't. We'll see soon enough.

Yeah it will be interesting to see what happens ball wise. I dont think the club switch will be that big however the ball is something to note if he does switch over

[bsoudi]

On 12/5/2020 at 9:07 AM, Mookieb10 said:

Interesting. I see Callaway a a fading company. Especially compared to TM. The total package is lagging. From tour presence to social media. If you love Callaway, you can find reasons not to feel this way, but as a neutral, they’re caught in between. 

These comments are 🤔. "Callaway becoming a powerhouse" and "fading company". This is the preeminent golf company and brand in the world, especially outside of the hard cores on GolfWRX. They've been tops in sales of almost every club category the past few years. And their diversification as a company has been interesting (Top Golf is a bigger business than golf equipment! Though I think they ruined Ogio.). Just think of where they were like 5-6 years ago with no ball presence and Diablo(!) clubs.

 

They made a significant climb with Harry Arnett as the head of marketing, with innovative and engaging social media programs and a really personal, underdog and innovative vibe. Unfortunately, he and many from that team have moved on and yes, their marketing has become pretty vanilla. It could be personnel or they feel they've climbed high enough they're can cut back on marketing.

 

They certainly seem to have missed the mark or have a different strategy in terms of tour pros. Besides Phil, too many dudes who would be mistaken as Workday or CDW salesmen. Rahm will certainly change that and maybe Xander will have a renaissance.

[BlkNGld]

On 12/6/2020 at 3:09 PM, ASN21 said:

I wanted Hovland to sign with TaylorMade initially but he’ll be with Ping for awhile. Maybe down the road. He’s a beast. 

 

What is it that makes you want a player to sign with a certain brand?

[ASN21]

9 minutes ago, BlkNGld said:

 

What is it that makes you want a player to sign with a certain brand?

For me it is the brand that I buy golf gear from. 

[ASN21]

29 minutes ago, bsoudi said:

These comments are 🤔. "Callaway becoming a powerhouse" and "fading company". This is the preeminent golf company and brand in the world, especially outside of the hard cores on GolfWRX. They've been tops in sales of almost every club category the past few years. And their diversification as a company has been interesting (Top Golf is a bigger business than golf equipment! Though I think they ruined Ogio.). Just think of where they were like 5-6 years ago with no ball presence and Diablo(!) clubs.

 

They made a significant climb with Harry Arnett as the head of marketing, with innovative and engaging social media programs and a really personal, underdog and innovative vibe. Unfortunately, he and many from that team have moved on and yes, their marketing has become pretty vanilla. It could be personnel or they feel they've climbed high enough they're can cut back on marketing.

 

They certainly seem to have missed the mark or have a different strategy in terms of tour pros. Besides Phil, too many dudes who would be mistaken as Workday or CDW salesmen. Rahm will certainly change that and maybe Xander will have a renaissance.

They are still a force but less so with how many vital people have left from the Zoo Crew and other parts of the company. 

[noodle3872]

1 hour ago, ASN21 said:

They are still a force but less so with how many vital people have left from the Zoo Crew and other parts of the company. 

Sure Callaway’s social media has become more bland in comparison to days under the Zoo Crew. However compared to all other major OEM’s except TM/Trottie, they are no better or no worse. 

[doctormizuno]

I agree with everybody that says the ball will be the more difficult change compared to Equipment.

I remember an interview Rory gave after Justin Rose switched to Honma. Rose won right away and

in an interview Rory was asked about the switch and the interviewer mentioned the switch didn't

seem too difficult. Rory quickly shot back,"Yeah, but he didn't change the ball".

[iNeedMoreGolf]

You know whats annoying to me... all the talk about golfers having such big personality and "flare" pazzaz yada yada lol they are just golfers... sure they have different personalities everyone does and has one so what? And the pazzas talk... not everyone has that magic or selling apeal to them so what... tiger and phil maybe ricky... are just about the only modern golfers that have that apeal to them. The rest their play is what makes you curious about why they are with a company... well maybe when your younger but if your in your 30s and up you would know its just a money grab because truly they can be on tour with just about any brand. Rahm plays great golf and is about as intresting as a old mcdonalds french fry on your car floor besides golf lol 

[iNeedMoreGolf]

Also... lol sorry for extra post. I dont think a golf brand thats already established has to have a stable of top 10 golfers just to show how successful or great their products are. I like what mizuno does... they know they have great irons and who likes it likes it who dont dont and we are not going to pay for talent. Besides taylor made what brand really stick out with top golfers to equitment anyway? Cobra? Barely. Taylormade just has the top names so it may seem like wow if they play it it must mean something.. not really. If thats the case they would have been with them in the first place or never leave but they do.

[mgoblue83]

4 hours ago, bsoudi said:

These comments are 🤔. "Callaway becoming a powerhouse" and "fading company". This is the preeminent golf company and brand in the world, especially outside of the hard cores on GolfWRX. They've been tops in sales of almost every club category the past few years. And their diversification as a company has been interesting (Top Golf is a bigger business than golf equipment! Though I think they ruined Ogio.). Just think of where they were like 5-6 years ago with no ball presence and Diablo(!) clubs.

 

They made a significant climb with Harry Arnett as the head of marketing, with innovative and engaging social media programs and a really personal, underdog and innovative vibe. Unfortunately, he and many from that team have moved on and yes, their marketing has become pretty vanilla. It could be personnel or they feel they've climbed high enough they're can cut back on marketing.

 

They certainly seem to have missed the mark or have a different strategy in terms of tour pros. Besides Phil, too many dudes who would be mistaken as Workday or CDW salesmen. Rahm will certainly change that and maybe Xander will have a renaissance.

 

Callaway clubs "feel" mass produced and cheap to me. I have plenty of friends with Callaway drivers from Epic to Maverick and every time I hold one or look at the club head up close it just looks gimmicky and cheap. Combine that with a ball that comes off the club face dead and spinny and forged blades like Apex MB's that feel harsh on good strikes and the whole thing just screams mass marketing of a cheap product.

 

I'm sure many people with disagree but I have nothing against Callaway and these are honest impressions when holding their equipment.

 

The only saving grace is that I'm quite sure Rahm won't be playing anything retail. I've heard Callaway has Miura make iron forgings for their tour players that are stamped Callaway etc..

 

[Pepperturbo]

Callaway made out on signing J.Rahm.  As Phil.M evolves to old champs tours, J.R. is going to be their shining star.  As for his Callaway equipment, they will do with J.R. what they did with P.M and Taylor Made did for JR and other marque players, build him a set, put a name on it and that name will match that of a retail set then Golfwrx golfers, among others will scramble to buy sets, just because. 

[J13]

13 hours ago, sociojeje said:

all those big guys have been either TM or Titleist as Phil is getting old. Finally they sign a big star. BTW, mavrik's color wouldn't match well with aldila tour green... hope he does well! 

 

 

The aldila green would go just fine though with the epic max ls 😉

[Basque]

14 hours ago, bmyles said:

Rahm’s version of “flare” looks an awful lot like petulance 

We Basques refer to that as "passion" lol.. 

 

Been a fan of Rahm's since his ASU days. I suspect he'll do just fine with the change of gear. 

 

In his honor, I just ordered a Travis Mathew shirt. That big-money contract is already paying dividends for Cally haha.. 

[SUMM1T]

On 12/4/2020 at 10:25 PM, grm24 said:

The current USA golf population is around 22-24 million players. What percentage of those players do you actually think know what clubs/shafts/balls any PGA Tour professional golfers use? It's tiny. That's even before considering the rest of the golf population around the rest of the globe.

 

What members of WRX and other places like this discuss or possibly might use what gear professionals use is not representative of the golf population as a whole. Not even close.

 

The fact is that you don't know what the percentage is, meaning it could be much higher than what you believe it to be. It's just as easy to speculate the other side of the argument. Watch any golf event and you'll see a commercial for Bridgestone with Tiger, or Callaway and Phil etc. Most people may not be able to tell you what shafts are in the pros bag, but I would be hard pressed to think that a large portion of golfers don't know Tiger is with TM, Phil is with Callaway etc. 

 

TM was king of the castle for a long time, then Callaway stepped in and went to town on the marketing in all aspects. They quickly gained control of the market. Fast forward to now, we have all of the major OEMs tapping into social media outlets and the "secrets" of what the PGA pros are playing. After every PGA Tour event, social media has posts of "Whats in the bag", not just this forum. Players are walking billboards for these companies and when they win, it helps their sales, who cares how much. I can safely say Callaway will benefit from having Rahm on their roster.

[soregongolfer]

5 hours ago, Basque said:

We Basques refer to that as "passion" lol.. 

 

Been a fan of Rahm's since his ASU days. I suspect he'll do just fine with the change of gear. 

 

In his honor, I just ordered a Travis Mathew shirt. That big-money contract is already paying dividends for Cally haha.. 

Where are you/your family from?  Mine are in Guernica and Lekeitio.  

[jomatty]

21 hours ago, driveandputtmachine said:

I wouldn't completely bet on piles of individual "tour" balls.  Any change in formulation what so ever has to be tested and approved by the USGA.  It has to have different markings to differentiate them.  I do not see a pile of different Chrome Soft balls on the USGA approved list.  If they play a ball that is different and not marked different and for some reason it is discovered it would be an immediate DQ would be my guess.  Not to mention the stigma a cheater gets.

 

If a pile of different balls was the case for Callaway staffers and they weren't putting them on the USGA conforming list, then Kisner wouldn't still be playing Titleist instead of a Callaway ball.

I’m not saying there are a bunch of different versions, but my understanding was that there was a diamond version that most your guys played.

[Basque]

13 hours ago, soregongolfer said:

Where are you/your family from?  Mine are in Guernica and Lekeitio.  

My man! Both Guernica and Lekeitio are wonderful spots. I've spent a good amount of time in both. Lekeitio in the summer is amazing. Reminds me a lot of St. Jean de Luz, where my mom lives now. 

 

My mom is from Baigorri (St. Etienne de Baigorry) and my dad is from a tiny town just across the border named Zilbeti.  I was born in Fresno, where my dad was a herder at the time. 

 

It's always great to bump into a fellow Basco 'in the wild'. 🍻

Edited December 9, 2020 by Basque

[Carl Newton]

On 12/3/2020 at 6:17 PM, getair23 said:

John played for Tim Mickelson at ASU and he also shares the same management group as Phil.  Phil has a direct connection to Rahm and a lifetime deal with Callaway.  Seems to make perfect sense to me.  

When Rahm was about to turn pro, Tim and Phil heavily courted him to Callaway.

 

He went and got everything in the bag sorted, with the exception of the driver. He just couldn't get comfortable with it. TaylorMade gave him a run to see if they could convince him. Flew him out to The Kingdom and had their head fitter from the tour meet them there. He was easy to fit into the irons, and they found a driver/shaft combination that he felt he could hit on demand. TaylorMade made him an offer that they knew was not near the numbers from Callaway, who really went hard for him based on Phil. Rahm accepted the lower price TM offer purely on his comfort with the driver.

 

First hand knowledge.