The Grip - Revisited

[mgoblue83]

Hey Everyone,

 

I'd like to have a discussion and maybe get some answers on the grip. I've played golf for 25 years and carry a 2 handicap but I don't understand the grip.

 

Observation:

Most instruction focuses on your swing without any attention paid to matching the grip with your bio-mechanics. What is mentioned about the grip is usually only talking about going strong, weak, or neutral with no mention about how to actually hold the club.

 

My grip:

Strongish interlock with the handle more in the palms than the fingers. (V of thumbs pointing at right shoulder so not super strong)

 

This grip feels comfortable and I can apply a lot of force and speed with consistent contact. (Driver 116-118)

 

My problem:

The club will sometimes move in my hands and quite often I will look down at the club after a shot to find it has rotated 10-30 degrees closed in my hands (miss is left and it's 100% a club face issue as I am very familiar with ball flight laws and have access to Trackman). I've experimented with the club more in my fingers as people suggest but the club moves and rotates even more. I've also tried a weak grip and I feel like I can't even make a swing. It causes pain in my wrists and I generate NO speed.

 

My question:

How can I secure the club (and by extension the club face) in my grip and stop it from moving or rotating during the swing?

 

Thanks!

Edited December 8, 2020 by mgoblue83

[golfsticks]

Maybe some pros here will pipe in if you post video of just hands and arms showing what your process is.  

[Arn]

Jumbo max Grips fixed that for me. Grip the club lightly is the worst advice I’ve ever had. If the club is rotating in your fingers hold it tighter or get fatter grips that are more stable. I’m well into my palm now with Jumbo max grips and I’ve never played better. Dispersion is vastly improved and the bizarre clankers are gone.

[Zitlow]

You want the meaty part of the butt of your palm hanging over the butt of the grip. It locks the club in like a vice without having to grip the club tightly. Similar to this but a lot more. 

 

Edited December 4, 2020 by Zitlow

[Simpsonia]

Possibly old worn grips that no longer have enough grip left on them to prevent the rotation in your hands, combined with a very light grip pressure? 

[mgoblue83]

1 hour ago, Arn said:

Jumbo max Grips fixed that for me. Grip the club lightly is the worst advice I’ve ever had. If the club is rotating in your fingers hold it tighter or get fatter grips that are more stable. I’m well into my palm now with Jumbo max grips and I’ve never played better. Dispersion is vastly improved and the bizarre clankers are gone.

 

I play midsize already but this is very intriguing. I love the feel of the club in my palm instead of my fingers anyway...

[mgoblue83]

1 hour ago, Zitlow said:

You want the meaty part of the butt of your palm hanging over the butt of the grip. It locks the club in like a vice without having to grip the club tightly. Similar to this but a lot more. 

 

 

Does this wear holes in your glove around the heel of your left hand very quickly?

[swagee]

3 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

Hey Everyone,

 

I'd like to have a discussion and maybe get some answers on the grip. I've played golf for 25 years and carry a 2 handicap but I don't understand the grip.

 

My grip:

Strongish interlock with the handle more in the palms than the fingers. (V of thumbs pointing at right shoulder so not super strong)

 

This grip feels comfortable and I can apply a lot of force and speed with consistent contact. (Driver 116-118)

 

My problem:

The club will sometimes move in my hands and quite often I will look down at the club after a shot to find it has rotated 10-30 degrees closed in my hands (miss is left and it's 100% a club face issue as I am very familiar with ball flight laws and have access to Trackman). I've experimented with the club more in my fingers as people suggest but the club moves and rotates even more. I've also tried a weak grip and I feel like I can't even make a swing. It causes pain in my wrists and I generate NO speed.

 

My question:

How can I secure the club (and by extension the club face) in my grip and stop it from moving or rotating during the swing?

 

Thanks!

 

I secure my clubs mostly with the pinky, ring, and middle finger from my left hand (im a right hander). 
I notice from time to time my right hand would slip out of position during and after impact, but it doesn’t really affect my contact. 
Watch a video of Freddy Couples’s hands and u’ll notice his right hand fingers sometimes almost fall off the club after impact, but his left hand fingers unaffected. 
So try to work on those three fingers. I hope it helps.
Maybe new grips or go up a grip size could do the trick. 

Cheers

[Ri_Redneck]

Get some leather grips. They won't turn in your hand no matter how you hit the ball.

 

BT

[mgoblue83]

1 hour ago, Ri_Redneck said:

Get some leather grips. They won't turn in your hand no matter how you hit the ball.

 

BT

 

How long to leather grips last?

[Zitlow]

2 hours ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

Does this wear holes in your glove around the heel of your left hand very quickly?

Not at all, what wears gloves out is friction. 

[mgoblue83]

Just now, Zitlow said:

Not at all, what wears gloves out is friction. 

 

Yeah, I wear a hole in the heel of my glove seemingly once every few rounds or every couple range sessions. Another reason why I don't understand the grip.

[freowho]

It seems like you're striking the ball out of the heel side of the face. I've seen a few people physically struggle to keep their grip playing golf without any indication from other activities to suggest a problem. One was a truck driver who had a physio tell him reaching forward all day at work had caused him to lose strength through his shoulder and back. Another was an older lady. A pro realised that she could lever the club with her elbow but not her wrist. She was trying to keep her lead arm straight so the new swing was to deliberately bend her elbows and use them to create power and she stopped letting go in the backswing. 

[mgoblue83]

4 hours ago, freowho said:

It seems like you're striking the ball out of the heel side of the face. I've seen a few people physically struggle to keep their grip playing golf without any indication from other activities to suggest a problem. One was a truck driver who had a physio tell him reaching forward all day at work had caused him to lose strength through his shoulder and back. Another was an older lady. A pro realised that she could lever the club with her elbow but not her wrist. She was trying to keep her lead arm straight so the new swing was to deliberately bend her elbows and use them to create power and she stopped letting go in the backswing. 

 

My miss is heel side but I play blades so the sweet spot is quite close to the hosel anyway. I have plenty of grip strength in other activities and normal use but I definitely lose my grip on the club during the swing. I already bend my left arm on the back swing as I'm a big guy and left arm straight is too restrictive. Any other suggestions?

[b.helts]

Something isn’t adding up here. 
 

But, lots of players regrip during the swing. Typically not good players, mind you.  You need to find out if you are regripping during the swing or the club is moving in your hands when the ball is struck. 
 

I’m going to go the other way from some previous posters and say you might need smaller grips. But really I don’t know. Need to see it to believe it. 

 

[Rapidcat]

27 minutes ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

My miss is heel side but I play blades so the sweet spot is quite close to the hosel anyway. I have plenty of grip strength in other activities and normal use but I definitely lose my grip on the club during the swing. I already bend my left arm on the back swing as I'm a big guy and left arm straight is too restrictive. Any other suggestions?

Maybe get a little radical and try a reverse taper grip:

 

I've been experimenting with several of these because I have an intermittent problem with losing my left hand grip at the butt end and wanted to try something that locks as per @Zitlow's earlier post.

 

Early days but can confirm it has firmed up my left hand butt grip, although I added several wraps of tape just at the very end to for one inch to increase butt diameter just a fraction after some initial range work.

 

I've found the reverse taper though will affect your right hand action which could be good or bad for you. One benefit for me is that I have one of these now on a hybrid and its gone from a hook machine to a slight fade. I have never really played hybrids due to the hooking issue that many have but this has me seriously considering gaming one with one of these grips.

[bladehunter]

10 hours ago, NotThatGuyorAmI? said:

It may be the interlocking grip.  Only the ends should be interlocked.  People get tired or don’t pay attention and start to interlock their entire fingers rather than just the ends so that the club is too much in the palms.

 

You might try the Greg Norman method.

This struck a nerve.   Or chord.  Only the ends of fingers ? I’m Not sure how you’d do just the ends?  I have big hands (xl cadet glove) my interlock is web to web right pinky to left index. If I move 3 plus inches out to my finger ends my hands off the club. 
 

im curious as I’ve experienced same as op.  And I’m currently 0.4 cap up from plus.  
 

edit for context.  - I read my post and it sounds like I’m disagreeing. Not really. I’m asking.  Why ? I’ve recently had elbow issue that I’ve traced to my grip. As in it only flares up when I’m interlocked. If I go to overlap it doesn’t seem to flare up.  But I don’t like the loose feel of overlap.  My right hand struggles to stay on the club. And if I engage it harder , a shut club face comes into play . So I’m on this road myself.  Looking for Grip style / actual grip size etc that works . And it’s not an easy thing to navigate 

Edited December 6, 2020 by bladehunter

[Simpsonia]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

This struck a nerve.   Or chord.  Only the ends of fingers ? I’m Not sure how you’d do just the ends?  I have big hands (xl cadet glove) my interlock is web to web right pinky to left index. If I move 3 plus inches out to my finger ends my hands off the club. 
 

im curious as I’ve experienced same as op.  And I’m currently 0.4 cap up from plus.  
 

edit for context.  - I read my post and it sounds like I’m disagreeing. Not really. I’m asking.  Why ? I’ve recently had elbow issue that I’ve traced to my grip. As in it only flares up when I’m interlocked. If I go to overlap it doesn’t seem to flare up.  But I don’t like the loose feel of overlap.  My right hand struggles to stay on the club. And if I engage it harder , a shut club face comes into play . So I’m on this road myself.  Looking for Grip style / actual grip size etc that works . And it’s not an easy thing to navigate 

Web to web gives you a bit of a grip mismatch, in that your right hand is going to be much stronger than your left hand (ie right hand facing towards the sky or vice versa a pretty weak left hand). Would also explain why you feel like your right hand struggles to stay on the club or you overshut the club face if you use it more. I'd try weakening your right hand grip a fair bit. Try feeling like your left thumb fits between the two palm pads of your right hand when you put it on over top. Should allow you to feel like you're using both hands equally in the swing (or actually use the right hand without shutting the club face and hooking off the planet). 

 

The downside though is that is a pretty major grip change so would definitely have an adverse affect on your game in the short term. 

 

Edit: the caveat is that this is with a proper sized grip. You might be able to go web to web and maintain the right hand to a degree on a grip that's too small for you. I had this issue with both standard and midsize grips until I decided to move to Jumbo. As soon as I put my hands on a jumbo grip, it just felt right, and I my persistent golfer's elbow started going away. My physical therapist recommended upping grip size since I had been death gripping the smaller grips, which created too much tension and the damage from impact kept hurting my elbow. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Simpsonia

[bladehunter]

1 hour ago, Simpsonia said:

Web to web gives you a bit of a grip mismatch, in that your right hand is going to be much stronger than your left hand (ie right hand facing towards the sky or vice versa a pretty weak left hand). Would also explain why you feel like your right hand struggles to stay on the club or you overshut the club face if you use it more. I'd try weakening your right hand grip a fair bit. Try feeling like your left thumb fits between the two palm pads of your right hand when you put it on over top. Should allow you to feel like you're using both hands equally in the swing (or actually use the right hand without shutting the club face and hooking off the planet). 

 

The downside though is that is a pretty major grip change so would definitely have an adverse affect on your game in the short term. 

 

Edit: the caveat is that this is with a proper sized grip. You might be able to go web to web and maintain the right hand to a degree on a grip that's too small for you. I had this issue with both standard and midsize grips until I decided to move to Jumbo. As soon as I put my hands on a jumbo grip, it just felt right, and I my persistent golfer's elbow started going away. My physical therapist recommended upping grip size since I had been death gripping the smaller grips, which created too much tension and the damage from impact kept hurting my elbow. 

Yea.  I hear the grip size issue. I’m playing standard now and almost always have. I don’t find midsize to help any , just adds weight.  They aren’t big enough to help . At least not any cord option I’ve found.  
 

let’s first quantify the web to web comment I made.  I mean like Jack has here In this video.  Full inter locked.  I guess i don’t understand the the finger end to end idea.  I can interlock on a baseball bat and not be tip to tip.  
 

my point isn’t to argue. But to figure out if or why the grip is causing my elbow issue. 
 

the elbow is back 99 % well now. But I can’t really say that I’ve swung hard or practiced as much in the last 3 months since the initial injury. I guess I’m still protecting it.  Mostly because I don’t know exactly what the issue is. 
 

I don’t want to hijack this thread , but the ops grip and other issues sound just like mine.  So I thought that adding more info might help us both.  
 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by bladehunter

[mgoblue83]

13 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Yea.  I hear the grip size issue. I’m playing standard now and almost always have. I don’t find midsize to help any , just adds weight.  They aren’t big enough to help . At least not any cord option I’ve found.  
 

let’s first quantify the web to web comment I made.  I mean like Jack has here In this video.  Full inter locked.  I guess i don’t understand the the finger end to end idea.  I can interlock on a baseball bat and not be tip to tip.  
 

my point isn’t to argue. But to figure out if or why the grip is causing my elbow issue. 
 

the elbow is back 99 % well now. But I can’t really say that I’ve swung hard or practiced as much in the last 3 months since the initial injury. I guess I’m still protecting it.  Mostly because I don’t know exactly what the issue is. 
 

I don’t want to hijack this thread , but the ops grip and other issues sound just like mine.  So I thought that adding more info might help us both.  
 

 

 

 

Hey man thanks for jumping in and don't worry about hijacking anything! We definitely have a similar issue and I think a lot more people have issues with the grip that causes misses they attribute to swing flaws. I know for SURE (100%) that my left miss is a club face/grip issue as my AoA, and path are exactly where they should be. I can grip the club with the club face lined up perfectly square, hit the shot, and then without taking my hands off the club look down to see the club face rotated shut in my grip.

 

I already play midsize grips but I am going to experiment with midsize +4s, more wraps underneath and possibly oversized grips to see if it helps. Like you, I haven't found the combination of grip technique and size that lets me hold the club securely while also relaxed. The tighter I grip it the more the face shuts down.

Edited December 6, 2020 by mgoblue83

[Simpsonia]

38 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Yea.  I hear the grip size issue. I’m playing standard now and almost always have. I don’t find midsize to help any , just adds weight.  They aren’t big enough to help . At least not any cord option I’ve found.  
 

let’s first quantify the web to web comment I made.  I mean like Jack has here In this video.  Full inter locked.  I guess i don’t understand the the finger end to end idea.  I can interlock on a baseball bat and not be tip to tip.  
 

my point isn’t to argue. But to figure out if or why the grip is causing my elbow issue. 
 

the elbow is back 99 % well now. But I can’t really say that I’ve swung hard or practiced as much in the last 3 months since the initial injury. I guess I’m still protecting it.  Mostly because I don’t know exactly what the issue is. 
 

I don’t want to hijack this thread , but the ops grip and other issues sound just like mine.  So I thought that adding more info might help us both.  
 

 

 

 

Ah sorry, I must have misunderstood the web to web comment. I thought you meant you were interlocking so far that the webbing between the fingers was actually touching the other webbing, ie you can't physically move your hands closer together. I think the finger end to finger end idea is essentially the same thing as Jack's interlock, just stated differently. The tip of his pinky is only just touching the webbing of the left hand's index finger, and vice versa. 

[Nard_S]

This is not talked about a lot but my feeling is that a good grip is not how Jack described it. A good grip is one that is more in alignment with the knuckle line of the hands. Placed  more in the knuckles with lead & more in fingers with trail but the whole "across the palm" idea is somewhat flawed interpretation and not really practiced by most advanced players. Dottie Pepper said "it should be like picking up a suitcase". No one puts a suitcase handle diagonally across palm. I moved to this several years ago. I do not wear out grips, I don't wear a glove, I don't get blisters and my OEM grips have tens of thousands of swings on them. 

[bladehunter]

6 minutes ago, Simpsonia said:

 

Ah sorry, I must have misunderstood the web to web comment. I thought you meant you were interlocking so far that the webbing between the fingers was actually touching the other webbing, ie you can't physically move your hands closer together. I think the finger end to finger end idea is essentially the same thing as Jack's interlock, just stated differently. The tip of his pinky is only just touching the webbing of the left hand's index finger, and vice versa. 

Well. Maybe I am saying more web to web than that.  Maybe half way web to web.  If I move my grip open enough to have my pinky on right just touch the web on my left index , I have a void in my hands roughly the size of a paper towel tube ( the cardboard center ) . If this is proper technique the. I need a very large grip.  

[bladehunter]

2 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

This is not talked about a lot but my feeling is that a good grip is not how Jack described it. A good grip is one that is more in alignment with the knuckle line of the hands. Placed  more in the knuckles with lead & more in fingers with trail but the whole "across the palm" idea is somewhat flawed interpretation and not really practiced by most advanced players. Dottie Pepper said "it should be like picking up a suitcase". No one puts a suitcase handle diagonally across palm. I moved to this several years ago. I do not wear out grips, I don't wear a glove, I don't get blisters and my OEM grips have tens of thousands of swings on them. 

I agree. My right hand has the club in the knuckles.  And is controlled by the index and thumb.  I’m a thumb index pincher ,   Not directly on top though.  But to the left ever so slightly.  I think this is why I don’t like overlap.   It takes even more of my hand off the club.  

[bladehunter]

I’m going to grab some pics I n a few minutes and we will then have actual clarity.  Brb

[nsxguy]

8 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

This is not talked about a lot but my feeling is that a good grip is not how Jack described it. A good grip is one that is more in alignment with the knuckle line of the hands. Placed  more in the knuckles with lead & more in fingers with trail but the whole "across the palm" idea is somewhat flawed interpretation and not really practiced by most advanced players. Dottie Pepper said "it should be like picking up a suitcase". No one puts a suitcase handle diagonally across palm. I moved to this several years ago. I do not wear out grips, I don't wear a glove, I don't get blisters and my OEM grips have tens of thousands of swings on them. 

 

Agreed. Just watched some of that Jack video and was astounded when he said the grip should be held in the PALM of the left hand. I just tried it and there's no way I'm swinging the club with the handle there.

 

Left and right hand holding the grip "in the fingers".

[mgoblue83]

1 minute ago, nsxguy said:

 

Agreed. Just watched some of that Jack video and was astounded when he said the grip should be held in the PALM of the left hand. I just tried it and there's no way I'm swinging the club with the handle there.

 

Left and right hand holding the grip "in the fingers".

 

How do we question the 2nd best player who ever lived? Just makes it more clear how personal the grip is and how little we focus on the grip in teaching and instruction. I really don't think many teaching pros understand how the grip should be matched up to movement patterns and everything else because there is VERY little information out there.

 

Personally I feel way more comfortable with the grip in my left palm. I can generate A LOT more club head speed with the grip in my palm vs. fingers but how do I know it's the correct grip for me?

[nsxguy]

1 minute ago, mgoblue83 said:

 

How do we question the 2nd best player who ever lived? Just makes it more clear how personal the grip is and how little we focus on the grip in teaching and instruction. I really don't think many teaching pros understand how the grip should be matched up to movement patterns and everything else because there is VERY little information out there.

 

Personally I feel way more comfortable with the grip in my left palm. I can generate A LOT more club head speed with the grip in my palm vs. fingers but how do I know it's the correct grip for me?

 

The same way we question who's the 2nd best player that ever lived. 

 

Frankly, while I admit I've never paid that much attention to swing teachings over the years. I can't recall hearing anyone suggest that the club should rest in the palm of the left hand. As I mentioned I just grabbed a club and held it in the palm and all I could think of was "Ughhhhh". To me, it's something that feels SO weird to me I wouldn't even give it a try.

 

But yes, one of the things that Jack has mentioned when he gave HIS way, was this IS "his way". 

[bladehunter]

Ok.  So I’m finding  out how hard it is to take grip pictures. Omg.  
 

Can anyone read anything from these ? 
 

forst two are a midsized with built up bottom hand ( no taper ) last two are a standard not built up.  And then a glove I’ve been wearing a couple weeks.  

[mgoblue83]

6 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Ok.  So I’m finding  out how hard it is to take grip pictures. Omg.  
 

Can anyone read anything from these ? 
 

forst two are a midsized with built up bottom hand ( no taper ) last two are a standard not built up.  And then a glove I’ve been wearing a couple weeks.  

 

It's so hard to tell anything with the pictures but I have the same wear on my glove. I get a hole in that heel pad of your hand area very quickly.