Chipping shanks

[70445]

Yesterday I shanked or looked like a shank on 7 chip shots,   On one green side I shanked 3 times in a row.  Need some help!  Drills? Why?

[zacgolf]

Hi,

 

this fixed it for me...

 

 

[jobin]

A totally sh*t*y feeling seeing those shankers happen.  For me, a rarity, but when it does happen i believe my right hip is moving outside the preferred plane and towards the ball.  This causes everything else to move out, away from the ball, including the club head.  So the face misses the ball but the hosel does not miss.

 

To solve, i focus on my inner right foot pressing into the ground.  I think some guys even put a 1/2 tennis ball under the inner right foot.  This makes it much more difficult to sway the right hip. 

 

I do however also think many folks have other opinions as to 'why'.  But no one, absolutely no one, wants to be party to a shank.

[LeoLeo99]

Ugh, been there.  When you'd rather be 100 yds out than 20 yds in.  Your hands are moving towards the ball pushing the club head out too far.   Still happens to me on some bunker shots.  Jobin may have the "cure". For me i have to feel like my butt is against a wall and needs to stay against it.  If I stand up just a little bit too much it pushes my hands towards the ball and ruins everything. 

[LeftDaddy]

I got a bad case of the chip shanks about 3 years ago. It felt like it popped up out of nowhere, but as I thought about it more, I had been “semi-shanking” some of my wedge shots. Point being that there was a swing fault causing it, and for whatever reason this time it showed up most in my chipping (and I’ve been a good chipper for a long time). It is a terrible feeling. It got so bad for me that I just putted from as far away as I felt comfortable until I worked it out. 
 

As for a fix, unfortunately it might be due to a number of things. For me, I had to get my weight off of my toes and more on what felt like my heels, and I needed to set up with my lead hip “cleared” a little bit. I also found some success strengthening my grip, which forced me to rotate a little more. 
 

Good luck fixing it. It sucks.  It isn’t “mental” though. There’s a swing fault somewhere that has you hitting on the hosel. Look for weight distribution and rotation and maintaining connection with arms and body, etc. 

[nitram]

I don't have a lot of weight transfer on a chip as my hands rarely move more than a foot. I just set up with more weight on the lead foot and pretty well keep it there through the stroke. Stand the club on the toe by raising the handle a little bit and let it go. 

Edited December 5, 2020 by nitram

[mikpga]

Define a chip shot...

 

 

[dlygrisse]

For me you need to start by understand what is actually happening with the club.  Forget about what you body is doing, that is probably just a temporary fix.  The club is swing into the ball from too far inside and you are shoving the hosel into the ball.  

 

I had this problem once, and I learned to fix it by trying to duplicate it, I know scary stuff.  But once I learned to shank it at will I learned to not shank it at will.  

 

For me, YMMV, I was setting up open, taking the club back outside the target line, as some teach, then dropping it back inside out instead of cutting across it like you need to do with that kind of shot.  I solved the whole deal by lining up square or even slightly closed and swinging the club on plane to the target.  Problem solved. 

 

So in summary, the whole notion of setting up open and hitting a cut shot is dangerous, you had better cut it or you will swing too in to out and hit it with the hosel.  

[golfsticks]

10 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

I had this problem once, and I learned to fix it by trying to duplicate it, I know scary stuff.  But once I learned to shank it at will I learned to not shank it at will. 

 

Excellent.  As in life we should own our mistakes.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by golfsticks

[Tanner25]

I had this problem. But, I called it the yips. Stood further from the ball and no problem.

[dlygrisse]

54 minutes ago, golfsticks said:

 

Excellent.  As in life we should own our mistakes.

 

 

For the record, I did this in the privacy of my back yard, not at the course with a practice green full of onlookers. 😉. 

[Obee]

Below is, without question, the best chipping/pitching concept instruction I have ever seen. I hit on this method on my own and after watching a high level am buddy greatly improve his chipping/pitching to where he was elite. Seeing him doing it after I had already been moving in that direction was all I needed to commit fully. Then, to see Padraig Harrington also explain it so simply and be so committed to it -- that was the icing on the cake.

 

 

[GolfTurkey]

IMO the shanks are most likely a path issue. Can be too in to out (hosel rapidly moving towards the ball) or too out to in (hosel gets outside the ball and has to be pulled back in the right amount to avoid a shank). If the path is neutral and the hosel never gets to the ball at any point then you can’t shank it.

 

Try putting a water bottle just outside the ball on your side of the ball. If you hit it then you are outside in. If you put the bottle just outside the ball on the target side of the ball and you hit it then you are inside out.

[Obee]

1 hour ago, GolfTurkey said:

IMO the shanks are most likely a path issue. Can be too in to out (hosel rapidly moving towards the ball) or too out to in (hosel gets outside the ball and has to be pulled back in the right amount to avoid a shank). If the path is neutral and the hosel never gets to the ball at any point then you can’t shank it.

 

Try putting a water bottle just outside the ball on your side of the ball. If you hit it then you are outside in. If you put the bottle just outside the ball on the target side of the ball and you hit it then you are inside out.

 

Watch that Harrington video I linked. Virtually every single guy I know with pitching yips does what he says. His "fix" makes total sense to me. There is, of course, a large mental component to yips also. Not addressing that ... yet. 🙂

[jomatty]

I had this pop up for a bit this spring.  There is no worse feeling than not knowing if you are going to hit it on the club face or not.  For me I had started to try to rotate more and at some point I started wrapping and coiling and taking the club on a very inside path.  I haven’t shanked one in months and it literally makes me feel uneasy even typing about it...

[GolfTurkey]

30 minutes ago, Obee said:

 

Watch that Harrington video I linked. Virtually every single guy I know with pitching yips does what he says. His "fix" makes total sense to me. There is, of course, a large mental component to yips also. Not addressing that ... yet. 🙂

 

I was working on the assumption that the op doesn't have the yips because they weren't mentioned. I've had a couple of bouts of shanks due to a funky path even though I wasn't yippy.

 

I agree totally with that video you posted. I wasted a year going from a good chipper to a poor one by going down the "use the bounce" rabbit hole. 

 

There is a nasty piece of into the grain club-grabbing Velcro Bermuda grass on our practice chipping green that I use as my benchmark to evaluate the state of my chipping. I was trying to achieve all the "bouncy" criteria like "bruising the grass", "gliding the clubhead" and getting away with contact 2 or 3 inches behind the ball. About 3 or 4 shots out of 10 were somewhat decent and the rest were a mess.

 

Now I lean my sternum as far as I can ahead of the ball on that shot and concentrate on not backing out of the shot. About 8 or 9 shots out of 10 are good and the misses are probably better than when I was worried about using the bounce. Funny thing is that the club is coming in steeper and often completely sticks in ground in that grainy patch.

[golfsticks]

Hearing a 3x major championship winner voicing an opposing view about using the bounce when chipping is refreshing.    Except for certain situations, using the bounce is a real chop way to execute most chip options in my opinion.

 
Professional level chipping reduces to not much more than making sure the club head does not pass the lead knee before the hands do. 

[70445]

Thank everyone for their insight, I’ll reread it digest it tomorrow.  I do appreciate everybody’s help.  

[Hawkeye77]

13 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

 

I was working on the assumption that the op doesn't have the yips because they weren't mentioned. I've had a couple of bouts of shanks due to a funky path even though I wasn't yippy.

 

I agree totally with that video you posted. I wasted a year going from a good chipper to a poor one by going down the "use the bounce" rabbit hole. 

 

There is a nasty piece of into the grain club-grabbing Velcro Bermuda grass on our practice chipping green that I use as my benchmark to evaluate the state of my chipping. I was trying to achieve all the "bouncy" criteria like "bruising the grass", "gliding the clubhead" and getting away with contact 2 or 3 inches behind the ball. About 3 or 4 shots out of 10 were somewhat decent and the rest were a mess.

 

Now I lean my sternum as far as I can ahead of the ball on that shot and concentrate on not backing out of the shot. About 8 or 9 shots out of 10 are good and the misses are probably better than when I was worried about using the bounce. Funny thing is that the club is coming in steeper and often completely sticks in ground in that grainy patch.

Harrington explains pretty well what using the bounce correctly involves, it's not a "rabbit hole" unless you take the concept too far, sounds like you did based on interpretation of what you were hearing from certain advocates or their "feel" or description which may not have been ideal. For example, Paddy is talking about being centered, you are suggesting leaning the sternum as far ahead as you can - maybe moving the ball forward and presenting the club face a little differently gets a different result out of the particular lie you describe? Anything to extremes isn't probably going to end well and get frustrating.

 

I'm guessing if your miss is sticking the club in the ground you definitely are coming in steeper, you are relying on using the leading edge and not using the bounce (correctly)? 

 

Harrington also has a nice little release on the shots he demonstrates - nice to see that!

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Hawkeye77

[sthompson42]

I consider myself a good chipper, a strength in my game, but this pops up out of nowhere every so often and is startling. Then it’s hard to stop. For me, my hands get pushed out too far towards the ball bc the sweet spot feels like the hosel at the end of the shaft, usually when I don’t turn through.  If I focus on the hosel going inside the ball, that usually does it. In a pinch on the course I have addressed the ball on the hosel. That will really get you focused on getting the hosel out of the way.  

[swagee]

On 12/5/2020 at 3:13 AM, 70445 said:

Yesterday I shanked or looked like a shank on 7 chip shots,   On one green side I shanked 3 times in a row.  Need some help!  Drills? Why?

Been there, done that 😆

On chip shots we tend to stand too close to the ball. 

Just stand a bit further from the ball, and position the ball toward the toe of ur club and u’ll be fine, mate.

Cheers! 

[dlygrisse]

18 hours ago, Obee said:

Below is, without question, the best chipping/pitching concept instruction I have ever seen. I hit on this method on my own and after watching a high level am buddy greatly improve his chipping/pitching to where he was elite. Seeing him doing it after I had already been moving in that direction was all I needed to commit fully. Then, to see Padraig Harrington also explain it so simply and be so committed to it -- that was the icing on the cake.

 

 

1.  Some really good stuff here

2.  My God is he long winded.  🙂

3.  He talks about how not to use the bounce like others recommend, then he proceeds to use it perfectly almost every shot....it just goes to show how we all interpret things differently.  

4. I like how he explains to play the ball forward to practice, most people need to do that more, although it's probably a good idea to learn to play it back some when you are in a hole etc.  

 

Good stuff.  

[dlygrisse]

If you are sticking the club in the ground it's probably because you are lagging the shaft and getting your hands ahead of the ball and putting the leading edge in the ground.  Keeping the end of the handle pointing at your belt buckle going back and through instead of it leaning towards the target will stop the problem.  Utley talks about this a lot, you want the clubhead swinging and the shaft in sync with your pivot.  It feels handsy at first, but it keeps the bounce looking at the turf and you get that nice thumping action.  

[Hawkeye77]

10 minutes ago, dlygrisse said:

1.  Some really good stuff here

2.  My God is he long winded.  🙂

3.  He talks about how not to use the bounce like others recommend, then he proceeds to use it perfectly almost every shot....it just goes to show how we all interpret things differently.  

4. I like how he explains to play the ball forward to practice, most people need to do that more, although it's probably a good idea to learn to play it back some when you are in a hole etc.  

 

Good stuff.  

Yep, he’s brushing the ground nicely. Kept saying watch your divot but I didn’t see any. I thought there was a short bit early where he talked about the bounce working correctly but, lol, he is windy and hard to stick with it, I kept fast forwarding!

Edited December 6, 2020 by Hawkeye77

[dlygrisse]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Yep, he’s brushing the ground nicely. Kept saying watch your divot but I didn’t see any. I thought there was a short bit early where he talked about the bounce working correctly but, lol, he is windy and hard to stick with it, I kept fast forwarding!

James Seickman's book is interesting.  He covers a lot of the same concepts, but he goes into detail about what makes your swing steep and what makes it shallow.  He is a big advocate of leaning more left, which shallows, but you can get too shallow, so you need elements such as wrist c0ck to steepen to get a blend of the two.  You got to be careful when watching all these different guys teach this stuff, if you pick the wrong elements you can end up with a mess.  Trust me I know from experience.  It's best to stick with one philosophy, whether it be Monte, Utley, Paddy, Azinger, Seikman, Stricker/Day, as what they talk about works, but when you mix it, it can get ugly.  There is something you can learn from everyone though.  

[Obee]

1 hour ago, dlygrisse said:

1.  Some really good stuff here

2.  My God is he long winded.  🙂

3.  He talks about how not to use the bounce like others recommend, then he proceeds to use it perfectly almost every shot....it just goes to show how we all interpret things differently.  

4. I like how he explains to play the ball forward to practice, most people need to do that more, although it's probably a good idea to learn to play it back some when you are in a hole etc.  

 

Good stuff.  

 
Agree completely about the bounce!

 

But the ball forward, weight forward stuff is gold.

[GolfTurkey]

6 hours ago, Hawkeye77 said:

Harrington explains pretty well what using the bounce correctly involves, it's not a "rabbit hole" unless you take the concept too far, sounds like you did based on interpretation of what you were hearing from certain advocates or their "feel" or description which may not have been ideal. For example, Paddy is talking about being centered, you are suggesting leaning the sternum as far ahead as you can - maybe moving the ball forward and presenting the club face a little differently gets a different result out of the particular lie you describe? Anything to extremes isn't probably going to end well and get frustrating.

 

I'm guessing if your miss is sticking the club in the ground you definitely are coming in steeper, you are relying on using the leading edge and not using the bounce (correctly)? 

 

Harrington also has a nice little release on the shots he demonstrates - nice to see that!

 

The sternum well ahead of the ball and sticking the club into the ground on the particular patch of evil Bermuda that I was talking about, not my average chip. The club won’t slide  on there no matter what, and it’s a great test of strike. It’s the sort of lie where you see the pro’s putt from well of the green when they are playing Bermuda (I would also putt it all day unless there was a bunker or something). 
 
The rabbit hole I was referring to was thinking so much of getting away with poor strikes that you actually forget to make a decent one. Harrington sets up using a the bounce mostly statically by having a 14 degree wedge and playing it forward. Unless you have a terrible handle drag you’re going to use the bounce from there (and he talks about releasing the club like Luke Donald). The big difference is that he talks a lot about the focus being on ball first contact (not using the bounce) and having the bounce hopefully save you if you get it wrong.
 

Justin Rose talks about deliberately hitting behind the ball and using the bounce. I don’t doubt that someone with his talent can hit a spot a precise distance behind the ball, but when I do that I will often hit so far behind it that no amount of bounce could save me,

[GolfTurkey]

This was my rabbit hole. Harrington talks about getting the divot after the ball, Rose (and countless YouTubers / YouTube videos) talk about ground first:

 

http://youtu.be/FbtvPsOTI_U

[golfsticks]

Don't move off your intuition Turkey.   Most chip situations are low and go in my opinion, but there are times when the opposite is needed, both can be used, as well as a few other techniques too if the situation warrants.

[Hawkeye77]

2 hours ago, GolfTurkey said:

The sternum well ahead of the ball and sticking the club into the ground on the particular patch of evil Bermuda that I was talking about, not my average chip. The club won’t slide  on there no matter what, and it’s a great test of strike. It’s the sort of lie where you see the pro’s putt from well of the green when they are playing Bermuda (I would also putt it all day unless there was a bunker or something). 
 
The rabbit hole I was referring to was thinking so much of getting away with poor strikes that you actually forget to make a decent one. Harrington sets up using a the bounce mostly statically by having a 14 degree wedge and playing it forward. Unless you have a terrible handle drag you’re going to use the bounce from there (and he talks about releasing the club like Luke Donald). The big difference is that he talks a lot about the focus being on ball first contact (not using the bounce) and having the bounce hopefully save you if you get it wrong.
 

Justin Rose talks about deliberately hitting behind the ball and using the bounce. I don’t doubt that someone with his talent can hit a spot a precise distance behind the ball, but when I do that I will often hit so far behind it that no amount of bounce could save me,

 

Using the bounce and ball first contact aren't mutually exclusive.  Rose does talk about being more like Seve and I agree, he has a lot of talent and spends dozens of hours a week on his short game.  Having said that, you can have an intent of being shallow and catching the ball without any real sliding along the ground and you are still using the bounce.  There's a video out there of someone showing Rose in slo mo and talking about how he contacts the ground first and slides along it, problem with the video is the club is coming into the top of the grass and you can see the little bit of divot he takes after contact with the ball - there was no actual ground contact before the shot.  Elsewhere though Justin himself demos what he calls Seve's method and he does seem to pretty clearly have an intent to slide along the ground, but maybe a couple inches or so, which I agree may not be the best solution for most of us. I think of it as there as margin for error. 

 

Anyway, I agree with Harrington as far as an intent to hit the ball, not presenting the leading edge and having a little release, sounds like that's good advice in general.