Anyone hit any 2021 drivers already?

[QuigleyDU]

24 minutes ago, nsxguy said:

 

Which LM is that again ? Foresight ?

 

And IIRC, you're not exactly "down under" , you're at 4000 feet altitude, yes ? 👍

yes, foresight gcquad. 4200 feet.

[TwistedSister]

I sure wish someone would come out with a smaller head, say 430 or 440  for Lefties...

[The Mad Bomber]

12 hours ago, QuigleyDU said:

For sure!! Ball speed wise I don’t think it is behind anything. I really like the TSi3. I am getting very good and playable numbers. Plus it looks awesome.

 

paired with a ventus blue 7x these are my launch numbers.

 

 

This is what I keep trying to tell people. When I got away from the "featured shaft" stuff (junk lol) that the fitter had and went to the wall matrix, TSi3 is nuts. It's as long or longer than anything out there ball speed wise, the carry is on par, but it's flatter and longer overall. All the while, it's the best looking driver ever made, the sound is perfect and I've yet to lose one left like days of old.

 

But here's the rub, and I think this is the caveat of all caveats, and it's followed Titleist around for more than a decade. There's a pretty consistent trend were Titleist drives have the label of slow and spinny, yet get excellent tour usage. And guys have always (incorrectly) written that off to contract dollars. When I was 10 years younger and a foot taller and a little more bullet proof, I got 180 MPH ball speeds out of a 910D3. To boot, it was a great looking driver and sounded awesome. Nothing beat it at the time. Titleist drivers have always been biased towards higher speed, good ball strikers. Thus, the heavy tour use. They've never translated that to average golfers like TM, Cally and the undisputed heavyweight champ in that category, PING. I believe that still holds true today, if perhaps the difference isn't as stark as has been the case in the past. Look at the youtube reviews like Shiels and James Robinson. They're both below that imaginary minimum tour requirement for speed with the driver, and neither of them gave it a very glowing review. Then look at Matty from TXG at 120MPH+ and Big Al. They both absolutely loved it. The same pattern has repeated when I'm at the fitting centre and 100MPH guys try it against SIM or Mavrik or the like. Looks good, sounds great, good on ball speed - but doesn't outshine anything really. Titleist drivers have always performed for high ball speed players and TSi3 is outstanding. I'm sure there are lots of guys that aren't at 115MPH+ that will game it, because it has lots of upside, but I don't believe for a second that this will be the best performer of the year for the masses. Just my 2 cents. 

[Myherobobhope]

3 hours ago, scomac2002 said:

 

Here's a more pertinent question:  Even if you are updating, what's the incentive to buy the latest iteration when for example the SIM that was selling for $700 in the spring is now discounted down to $450?  Can the SIM2 possibly be that much better to justify paying 50% more than the outgoing model?  If it's just iteratively better than that's a pretty steep premium just to be current!

I agree. I haven't bought a new driver since the TaylorMade burner with bubble shaft... Honestly, I think the real "gains" in newer equipment is upgrading shafts... 

 

If you have any sort of golf budget, finding the right shaft in a used head probably makes more sense than buying a new head... The only reason I'm ditching my Cobra LTD Pro (assuming the new driver I won works for me) is because I scratched the crown with an  alignment stick and it looks bad. I could PROBABLY get it fixed and very well might. 

 

I think new drivers are fun and exciting, but definitely not a place where I allocate many resources... I keep an eye on the used market and wanted to get a ST200G but the used marked is insane this year, so I guess I'll check again this time next year!

[hybrid25]

All of a sudden my Mav Max driver feels old and obsolete.🥴 Although, all the flash and promise of more distance and better forgiveness feels rather obsolete to me. If drivers attained these aspects we would all be hitting 330 yds right down the middle. 

[scottaz]

12 hours ago, 5baytjd said:

So what did you do to, "turn the G400 max into a low spin beast" ?  Inquiring minds (who also game it) want to know.

 

My first few tests with it were with the standard 9* head but who knows what it actually was. I tried a lot of low low shafts ( hzrdus t1100 6.5, black 6.5, KK DC tx) and it was ok but spin was still too high, didn't love the flight and had a few too many hooks.  So I gave up on it. 

 

I was one of the TPT shaft testers and went down to Texas get fit by Jon Sinclair. He put a 14 proto in a digitally lofted (8.6) Max. Turned it down to the small minus, got the length (45") and sw (D4) right for me. I had my TM M3 there with me that I was fit into with an Atmos black 80tx tipped 1" and the spin with the Max/TPT was only a little higher, and I could attack and knew it would be in play. No lefts.  My ball speed was down a bit vs. the TM but I'm willing to trade a few yards for more control. 

 

I've never had a driver in play this long and have tried many times to knock it out. I can count on a small cut and if I get sloppy, push it more than I want, but as a former hooker, this combo has been spectacular. I know I'm leaving a few yards out there but won't change until I find something I trust as much.  

 

 

          

[sociojeje]

is there any chance a stock shaft will be blue rdx? if so, i'm very much intrigued. 

[goheels11]

7 hours ago, scomac2002 said:

 

Here's a more pertinent question:  Even if you are updating, what's the incentive to buy the latest iteration when for example the SIM that was selling for $700 in the spring is now discounted down to $450?  Can the SIM2 possibly be that much better to justify paying 50% more than the outgoing model?  If it's just iteratively better than that's a pretty steep premium just to be current!

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by goheels11
Dup

[goheels11]

7 hours ago, scomac2002 said:

 

Here's a more pertinent question:  Even if you are updating, what's the incentive to buy the latest iteration when for example the SIM that was selling for $700 in the spring is now discounted down to $450?  Can the SIM2 possibly be that much better to justify paying 50% more than the outgoing model?  If it's just iteratively better than that's a pretty steep premium just to be current!

When/where was the SIM $700?  Wow!  Was $499 for the max and $549 for sim in my market.  

[jmorrow020]

I'm still rocking on my LTD Pro right now. Hopefully moving into a new driver this year. I dont care what it ends up being, I'm just excited that this year is the first time I have felt like I am actually going to gain a benefit for the money that I am spending on the new head. Need something to go with my Tensie AV Proto 2.0 😉

[geakins]

30 minutes ago, jmorrow020 said:

I'm still rocking on my LTD Pro right now. Hopefully moving into a new driver this year. I dont care what it ends up being, I'm just excited that this year is the first time I have felt like I am actually going to gain a benefit for the money that I am spending on the new head. Need something to go with my Tensie AV Proto 2.0 😉

That was such a great Head. Good luck on your search this year. Plenty of great choices! Let us know what you get.

[Brooks_Cupcake]

1 hour ago, goheels11 said:

When/where was the SIM $700?  Wow!  Was $499 for the max and $549 for sim in my market.  

CAD

[J13]

8 hours ago, Duffer222 said:

You should be in politics the way you can put spin on data like that!

 

 

haha POTUS 2024😉

[Morry]

7 hours ago, The Mad Bomber said:

This is what I keep trying to tell people. When I got away from the "featured shaft" stuff (junk lol) that the fitter had and went to the wall matrix, TSi3 is nuts. It's as long or longer than anything out there ball speed wise, the carry is on par, but it's flatter and longer overall. All the while, it's the best looking driver ever made, the sound is perfect and I've yet to lose one left like days of old.

 

But here's the rub, and I think this is the caveat of all caveats, and it's followed Titleist around for more than a decade. There's a pretty consistent trend were Titleist drives have the label of slow and spinny, yet get excellent tour usage. And guys have always (incorrectly) written that off to contract dollars. When I was 10 years younger and a foot taller and a little more bullet proof, I got 180 MPH ball speeds out of a 910D3. To boot, it was a great looking driver and sounded awesome. Nothing beat it at the time. Titleist drivers have always been biased towards higher speed, good ball strikers. Thus, the heavy tour use. They've never translated that to average golfers like TM, Cally and the undisputed heavyweight champ in that category, PING. I believe that still holds true today, if perhaps the difference isn't as stark as has been the case in the past. Look at the youtube reviews like Shiels and James Robinson. They're both below that imaginary minimum tour requirement for speed with the driver, and neither of them gave it a very glowing review. Then look at Matty from TXG at 120MPH+ and Big Al. They both absolutely loved it. The same pattern has repeated when I'm at the fitting centre and 100MPH guys try it against SIM or Mavrik or the like. Looks good, sounds great, good on ball speed - but doesn't outshine anything really. Titleist drivers have always performed for high ball speed players and TSi3 is outstanding. I'm sure there are lots of guys that aren't at 115MPH+ that will game it, because it has lots of upside, but I don't believe for a second that this will be the best performer of the year for the masses. Just my 2 cents. 

Outstanding post

 

appreciated

 

 

[goheels11]

1 hour ago, therealjonzone said:

CAD

👍🏻

[Morry]

Low spin and Low Launch

need both huge

 

12 degree Ping g410 plus currently - works well

Shafts are - Evenflow Blue 65 - 6.0, Copper Xtrosion - S, Ventus Red 60-R

Just for flavour

 

Tried Mav Max, M6, Sim Max, TS2....all no good

 

suggestions or thoughts for 2021??

Please

 

Radspeed has my eye already...as does the frontrunner, G425 Max

 

 

 

[bladehunter]

8 hours ago, The Mad Bomber said:

This is what I keep trying to tell people. When I got away from the "featured shaft" stuff (junk lol) that the fitter had and went to the wall matrix, TSi3 is nuts. It's as long or longer than anything out there ball speed wise, the carry is on par, but it's flatter and longer overall. All the while, it's the best looking driver ever made, the sound is perfect and I've yet to lose one left like days of old.

 

But here's the rub, and I think this is the caveat of all caveats, and it's followed Titleist around for more than a decade. There's a pretty consistent trend were Titleist drives have the label of slow and spinny, yet get excellent tour usage. And guys have always (incorrectly) written that off to contract dollars. When I was 10 years younger and a foot taller and a little more bullet proof, I got 180 MPH ball speeds out of a 910D3. To boot, it was a great looking driver and sounded awesome. Nothing beat it at the time. Titleist drivers have always been biased towards higher speed, good ball strikers. Thus, the heavy tour use. They've never translated that to average golfers like TM, Cally and the undisputed heavyweight champ in that category, PING. I believe that still holds true today, if perhaps the difference isn't as stark as has been the case in the past. Look at the youtube reviews like Shiels and James Robinson. They're both below that imaginary minimum tour requirement for speed with the driver, and neither of them gave it a very glowing review. Then look at Matty from TXG at 120MPH+ and Big Al. They both absolutely loved it. The same pattern has repeated when I'm at the fitting centre and 100MPH guys try it against SIM or Mavrik or the like. Looks good, sounds great, good on ball speed - but doesn't outshine anything really. Titleist drivers have always performed for high ball speed players and TSi3 is outstanding. I'm sure there are lots of guys that aren't at 115MPH+ that will game it, because it has lots of upside, but I don't believe for a second that this will be the best performer of the year for the masses. Just my 2 cents. 

Not sure I follow that.   Who are the high ballspeed tour guys using titleist ?  Fleetwood for a moment.  But he’s gone TM.   And not really a high ballspeed guy.  
 

some of the free agents I can think of that are fast.  All are TM or ping. One tried callaway for a minute ( Brooks ) and ended up throwing one head into the woods I think ( may have been a sim ?) and went back to an m5.  
 

Who are we talking about ?  

Edited December 27, 2020 by bladehunter

[alpineto]

9 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Not sure I follow that.   Who are the high ballspeed tour guys using titleist ?  Fleetwood for a moment.  But he’s gone TM.   And not really a high ballspeed guy.  
 

some of the free agents I can think of that are fast.  All are TM or ping. One tried callaway for a minute ( Brooks ) and ended up throwing one head into the woods I think ( may have been a sim ?) and went back to an m5.  
 

Who are we talking about ?  

Pretty much any of the male Titleist  staffers will have ball speeds in the 170 mph + thats what's required to survive on the PGA tour anymore 

the mad bomber was only pointing out that the TSI3 heads where pretty much the same as other OEM's when it comes to the higher swing speed guys .

Edited December 27, 2020 by alpineto

[Scooterboy59]

I have hit three drivers that are come out next year. To say I am excited is an understatement. 

[pinhigh27]

8 hours ago, The Mad Bomber said:

This is what I keep trying to tell people. When I got away from the "featured shaft" stuff (junk lol) that the fitter had and went to the wall matrix, TSi3 is nuts. It's as long or longer than anything out there ball speed wise, the carry is on par, but it's flatter and longer overall. All the while, it's the best looking driver ever made, the sound is perfect and I've yet to lose one left like days of old.

 

But here's the rub, and I think this is the caveat of all caveats, and it's followed Titleist around for more than a decade. There's a pretty consistent trend were Titleist drives have the label of slow and spinny, yet get excellent tour usage. And guys have always (incorrectly) written that off to contract dollars. When I was 10 years younger and a foot taller and a little more bullet proof, I got 180 MPH ball speeds out of a 910D3. To boot, it was a great looking driver and sounded awesome. Nothing beat it at the time. Titleist drivers have always been biased towards higher speed, good ball strikers. Thus, the heavy tour use. They've never translated that to average golfers like TM, Cally and the undisputed heavyweight champ in that category, PING. I believe that still holds true today, if perhaps the difference isn't as stark as has been the case in the past. Look at the youtube reviews like Shiels and James Robinson. They're both below that imaginary minimum tour requirement for speed with the driver, and neither of them gave it a very glowing review. Then look at Matty from TXG at 120MPH+ and Big Al. They both absolutely loved it. The same pattern has repeated when I'm at the fitting centre and 100MPH guys try it against SIM or Mavrik or the like. Looks good, sounds great, good on ball speed - but doesn't outshine anything really. Titleist drivers have always performed for high ball speed players and TSi3 is outstanding. I'm sure there are lots of guys that aren't at 115MPH+ that will game it, because it has lots of upside, but I don't believe for a second that this will be the best performer of the year for the masses. Just my 2 cents. 

What does this even mean? How would a head be biased towards faster swingers but not work for slower ones?

 

They have the reputation for being spinny because they have been. Other OEMs don't have guys playing 7.5 loft drivers very often. Titleist guys were always chasing the lowest loft and spin combos possible, because the heads spun a lot. 

[st626629]

If you are getting access to these drivers prerelease are they fitted with the upcoming stock shafts? Wondering how much of these opinions were are seeing are based more on the shafts than the heads? 
 

at which point are the heads maxed out and the shafts moving the gains forward? Thinking more for the masses (then those buying upgraded $350 shafts) as companies pull forward their premium shaft tech down into the stock models.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by st626629

[noodle3872]

32 minutes ago, st626629 said:

If you are getting access to these drivers prerelease are they fitted with the upcoming stock shafts? Wondering how much of these opinions were are seeing are based more on the shafts than the heads? 
 

at which point are the heads maxed out and the shafts moving the gains forward? Thinking more for the masses (then those buying upgraded $350 shafts) as companies pull forward their premium shaft tech down into the stock models.

 

 

The heads have been maxed out for several years now. It’s now all about max  ball speed retention across more of the face, high MOI, high launch and keeping spin low.

[jds101086]

2 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Not sure I follow that.   Who are the high ballspeed tour guys using titleist ?  Fleetwood for a moment.  But he’s gone TM.   And not really a high ballspeed guy.  
 

some of the free agents I can think of that are fast.  All are TM or ping. One tried callaway for a minute ( Brooks ) and ended up throwing one head into the woods I think ( may have been a sim ?) and went back to an m5.  
 

Who are we talking about ?  

I completely agree with you. 

JT and Adam Scott are the only ones I can think of. Tommy is actually in the TSi3 which gives it some credibility. That said, Titelist has been a 4th place runner for almost a decade. Their sales are in the loyalists and the staff bag carrying wannabes. The fact pro's play the clubs is irrelevant because they're getting paid and also have the ability/fitting to play said clubs. 

I've tried every Titleist driver since the 905 series and all have been 10+ yards shorter than whatever I was playing at the time.

[bladehunter]

2 hours ago, alpineto said:

Pretty much any of the male Titleist  staffers will have ball speeds in the 170 mph + thats what's required to survive on the PGA tour anymore 

the mad bomber was only pointing out that the TSI3 heads where pretty much the same as other OEM's when it comes to the higher swing speed guys .

Right.  But those are paid staffers.  Do we have ballspeed numbers from them in other drivers ?  It’s the only way to prove it.  
 

look.  I’m not down on titleist. Actually the contrary.   I have some speed.  And Im in the camp of “ I am not a huge TM fan , but I can’t beat their driver no matter how hard I try “ ....... and believe me.  I’ve tried.  I’ve bought , borrowed , and demoed every head that’s out in the last month ,  couldn’t do it.  Callaway came close.  Just as fast. But.  The mavrik is draw biased and I just can’t stand the odd double cross it has.  
 

 

[alpineto]

31 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Right.  But those are paid staffers.  Do we have ballspeed numbers from them in other drivers ?  It’s the only way to prove it.  
 

look.  I’m not down on titleist. Actually the contrary.   I have some speed.  And Im in the camp of “ I am not a huge TM fan , but I can’t beat their driver no matter how hard I try “ ....... and believe me.  I’ve tried.  I’ve bought , borrowed , and demoed every head that’s out in the last month ,  couldn’t do it.  Callaway came close.  Just as fast. But.  The mavrik is draw biased and I just can’t stand the odd double cross it has.  
 

 

Some driver heads  you need to have very fast club head speed to get the most out of them tsi3 included thats why I went with the tsi2 

my swing speed is anywhere from 103 -110 mph , go and watch the TXG video on the tsi3 those guys have put it up against the Simm 
 

and the Titleist had slightly better ball speed , I think we all know that it comes down to getting fit properly and what suits your eye 

as all of these drivers are maxed out as far MOI goes . 

Also I might add that the tsi3  was the most played driver at the US open and had only been available two weeks before the tournament , thats a big endorsement from players who just don't switch at the drop of a hat and there where a lot of non Titleist players using it .

Edited December 27, 2020 by alpineto

[SwooshLT]

6 hours ago, alpineto said:

Some driver heads  you need to have very fast club head speed to get the most out of them tsi3 included thats why I went with the tsi2 

my swing speed is anywhere from 103 -110 mph , go and watch the TXG video on the tsi3 those guys have put it up against the Simm 
 

and the Titleist had slightly better ball speed , I think we all know that it comes down to getting fit properly and what suits your eye 

as all of these drivers are maxed out as far MOI goes . 

Also I might add that the tsi3  was the most played driver at the US open and had only been available two weeks before the tournament , thats a big endorsement from players who just don't switch at the drop of a hat and there where a lot of non Titleist players using it .

 

Fitzpatrick won with it and he's not a high speed guy......I believe aesthetically,  the presentation is so very good.....acoustics are pleasing AND it does have great ball speed retention across the face.....Tour guys play out of the middle for the most part..... 

 

Not everyone is chasing very high launch with sub 2k spin.....go and watch Cameron Champ.....he flights it very low for control yet still gets it out there miles! 

[pinhigh27]

7 hours ago, alpineto said:

Some driver heads  you need to have very fast club head speed to get the most out of them tsi3 included thats why I went with the tsi2 

my swing speed is anywhere from 103 -110 mph , go and watch the TXG video on the tsi3 those guys have put it up against the Simm 
 

and the Titleist had slightly better ball speed , I think we all know that it comes down to getting fit properly and what suits your eye 

as all of these drivers are maxed out as far MOI goes . 

Also I might add that the tsi3  was the most played driver at the US open and had only been available two weeks before the tournament , thats a big endorsement from players who just don't switch at the drop of a hat and there where a lot of non Titleist players using it .

There’s no evidence that some heads magically start working for fast swing speeds 

[kwainio]

Fleetwood, Fitzpatrick and Reed have all put it in play, I would say thats a solid endorsement of the TSi3 especially since all three were coming from Taylormade.

[bladehunter]

8 hours ago, alpineto said:

Some driver heads  you need to have very fast club head speed to get the most out of them tsi3 included thats why I went with the tsi2 

my swing speed is anywhere from 103 -110 mph , go and watch the TXG video on the tsi3 those guys have put it up against the Simm 
 

and the Titleist had slightly better ball speed , I think we all know that it comes down to getting fit properly and what suits your eye 

as all of these drivers are maxed out as far MOI goes . 

Also I might add that the tsi3  was the most played driver at the US open and had only been available two weeks before the tournament , thats a big endorsement from players who just don't switch at the drop of a hat and there where a lot of non Titleist players using it .

Can you post a link to the Darrel survey that lists that ?  Google won’t pull it up for me.  Best I can see is 2 guys with titleist drivers in the top 20 for the us open.  Webb and Thomas.  And Thomas may have been using the ts3.  Not sure.  
 

sorry.  But 103-110 isn’t the very fast speed we’re talking about.  And there is simply zero evidence that says that actual very fast speeds favor one driver over another.  Closest driver you can claim that in is the sldr or ts4.  And that’s because of spin reduction.  They reduced spin on a level that required 120 plus to elevate for the low spin.  Or.... loft wayyy up.  

[st626629]

10 hours ago, noodle3872 said:

The heads have been maxed out for several years now. It’s now all about max  ball speed retention across more of the face, high MOI, high launch and keeping spin low.

Right so..what percentage of this improvement is happening via the new shaft technology? The increases with the heads seem to be incrementally small - as they don’t have far to go to hit the limits - both physical and per the rules. they can expand the ball speed across the face but a lot of the other stuff I’d think has as much to do with the shafts as the head. Just thinking out loud about this...
 

Drivers are a massive exercise in marketing (and they are really good at it!) but shaft companies aren’t really the marketing monsters the likes of TM or callaway are. They are sort of just along for the ride...

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by st626629